^ a friend that used to drive competitively says that's super common with inexperienced drivers. Something about the weight being in the rear and needing to power through to keep it in control.

The controls on the steering wheel of the Model S are great. Works much better with the touch screen than I expected.

[Edited on January 4, 2014 at 7:08 PM. Reason : A]

1/4/2014 6:56:52 PM

Quote :

"a friend that used to drive competitively says that's super common with inexperienced drivers. Something about the weight being in the rear and needing to power through to keep it in control."

?

The 911's handling characteristics are well known. The Carrera GT, like any other mid engined car, has a lower than usual polar moment of inertia and must be driven properly.

Dunno why we're talking about Porsches though; the comparison on the last page was a bad one.

1/6/2014 8:44:28 AM

I spent some more time in a Model S over the weekend. Going to drive one today and spend more time in it. The interface on the console seems kind of beta still, but the contextualness of the odometer panel, like showing directions when you need to turn so you don't have to look down at the center panel, is really cool. The tactile controls on the steering wheel for the radio and AC are really great in terms of use, but feel a little cheap to a comparable, in cost, car and maybe even not in cost. Didn't hate the touch screen like I was expecting.

[Edited on January 6, 2014 at 12:59 PM. Reason : a]

1/6/2014 12:59:07 PM

This thing is getting a Tesla drivetrain:




http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/the-current/footprint/Two-Volkswagen-Vanagons-Plus-One-Tesla-Model-S-Equals-the-Ultimate-Adventure-Rig.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebookpost

[Edited on January 6, 2014 at 3:23 PM. Reason : .]

1/6/2014 3:23:00 PM

Just took it up and down some canyons in Malibu. I missed the turn on the test drive because it jumped from 20 to 80 while passing someone in what seemed like 2 seconds--I am not used to the power. The steering controls felt a lot nicer today. Now I just have to convince them to let me take it up I5 to Oregon.

The way the options work is just silly. You can easily pay $110K if you get the yacht flooring and fake suede roof.

1/6/2014 11:22:39 PM

Thank you for your order....

Now, how to break it to my wife.

1/15/2014 8:07:53 PM

Congrats!

Pics when you get it!

1/16/2014 9:03:11 AM

^^Wow, congrats indeed!

You're a lucky man if you can get away with that. If I tried to "break the news" to my wife that I'd made a purchase like that, I'd be the one getting broken, LOL.

1/16/2014 10:12:09 AM

CaelNCSU, do you live in southern california?

1/16/2014 11:49:17 AM

It's almost a shame smc has gone missing, otherwise CaelNCSU as a soon-to-be-owner could personally refute some of his trolling.

1/16/2014 12:15:20 PM

Yep, in Santa Monica. Now I just need better parking.

According to smc it won't be drivable in 2020!

1/16/2014 12:42:32 PM

Due to popular demand...I'm back! I hope you're still here in 2020, too. Be sure to park that thing far away from the house. Maybe consider installing a racing fire suppression system to give you time to escape the car.

Meanwhile...

=============================================================
United States Government Forces Recall of All Teslas Due to Fire Risk
===============================================================


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/14/tesla-recall_n_4596414.html

Tesla responds by using doublespeak to claim the recall isn't really a recall. Gee, you guys picked an awfully inopportune time to summon me. At least wait until a week when Tesla fires aren't frontpage news.

1/16/2014 9:01:38 PM

^How did you manage to come up with that headline?

Tesla notified owners last week that they would get new chargers. Then 4 days later the NHTSA classified that notification as a recall.

The NHTSA never forced anything on Tesla, other than the classification of Tesla's actions.

1/17/2014 2:24:20 AM

Looks to me like smc is trying to hurt Tesla's image...perhaps he's considering picking up some of their stock in the near future??

1/17/2014 8:27:56 AM

Their stock is still insanely overvalued.

1/17/2014 1:25:20 PM

To be clear, it's not the car that is recalled. It's the cord that plugs into the car and then into the wall. Looks like the issue has been fixed in both the software and hardware.

1/17/2014 5:18:25 PM

There's apparently a Tesla registered in every state now.

2/1/2014 10:01:18 AM

http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post--new-jersey-kills-the-electric-car-is-ohio-next


I guess I don't understand who 'benefits' from privately owned dealerships -

3/13/2014 7:29:18 AM

^ The privately owned dealerships.

Apparently they're the ones putting pressure on lawmakers to deny Tesla the right to sell cars direct.

Those political "donations" are coming in handy!

3/13/2014 9:48:20 AM

I guess I don't quite get the problem - if someone wants a Tesla, they're going to buy one. To me it's not like buying an appliance car, and just purchasing at the closest dealer because of proximity, to me.

3/13/2014 10:19:01 AM

I haven't read that much into the issue, but it appears the established dealers don't want any competition. The problem is they think money will eventually be coming out of their pockets.

What if this direct-to-consumer model continues to grow (Ford/Chevy etc)? Perhaps they're just trying to nip it in the bud.

3/13/2014 10:36:54 AM

that makes more sense

3/13/2014 10:47:07 AM

This goes into some detail: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-lane-tesla-takes-on-car-dealerships-in-a-fight-to-the-death/2014/03/12/2956a9f2-a9ff-11e3-8599-ce7295b6851c_story.html

Quote :

"State laws generally prohibit anyone but a licensed franchisee from selling new cars. A 2000 report by a Goldman Sachs analyst estimated that direct sales would save consumers $2,225 per new car, assuming an average vehicle price of $26,000. ... The dealer-based system was obsolescent even before the Internet, which is why Detroit automakers tried to streamline it decades ago, only to be thwarted when dealers turned to state legislatures for protection. As Web-based retail sales of other products began to take off in 1999, a General Motors executive said publicly that 80 percent of new-car sales could be factory-direct orders made online by 2003. He forgot about the dealer lobby, which mobilized to win state bans on Internet sales by anyone except an existing licensed dealer. The laws’ purpose, and effect, is to head off innovation. Of course, changes might make the car-buying experience more pleasant and less expensive for consumers — but cut dealers’ profits or put them out of business altogether. This is why dealers see Tesla as a mortal threat and are fighting it accordingly."

3/13/2014 10:55:02 AM

Quote :

"Its Model S performed and sold better than many critics, this one included, expected. Ditto for its stock price, which is more than $240 per share, though the company’s market capitalization of nearly $29 billion — half that of Ford — strikes many critics, this one included, as unsustainable"

Quote :

"The (dubious) policy rationale is that a shift to electric cars would lower carbon emissions significantly and that the way to achieve such a shift is by subsidizing the manufacture and sale of a luxury vehicle that only the 1 percent can afford."

I swear these people are so blind that they can't see forest for the trees. I remember reading a whole bunch of write-ups by "investment specialists" a couple of years ago about why Tesla will never make it. Hell, look at the first few pages of this thread. I'm glad policies are not made by people who look only one decade ahead.

3/13/2014 5:11:36 PM

So you think switching to electricity is the wave of the future?

We have to clean up our power plants and power grid first otherwise we are gust centralizing emissions.

3/13/2014 6:46:59 PM

Fossil fuels are limited. Electricity can be generated directly or indirectly from our energy source, the sun. So yes, electricity is most definitely the way of the future. Not to mention that most combustion-based generation processes are highly inefficient. The question is, how quickly can build an infrastructure to capture enough energy to fill our needs so we switch over to reviewable sources. Technology is there.

As to the grid itself, decentralized generation combined with improving efficiency and decreased cost of local energy storage means that the grid may not need to be reworked all that much.

3/14/2014 1:39:46 PM

Wow you really don't know shit about solar do you.


When I see solar collector boiler making powe in nc I'll agree. But pv is horseshit and if you dot know that then you don't know enough for me to debate this with you.

3/14/2014 1:50:43 PM

Wow, you really don't know shit about renewable, do you?

Renewable can be any immediate derivative of sun's energy. Hydro, wind, tidal, biomass, biofuel, non-PV solar like the solar thermal you mentioned, passive solar heating, geothermal. Some of those don't work for transportation, obviously, since heating, cooling, and lighting are the largest sources of energy consumption after transportation, and by improving heating and cooling systems and increasing thermal efficiency of buildings, we could offload the grid so it would have capacity to power ground transportation, second largest energy consumer here in the US at least.

Earth receives more energy in form of solar radiation in an hour than we use in one year. If we capture a small fraction of that. Based on most projections, we will run out of fossil fuel reserves within a century, if we continue on the current path. That means it will take humanity 300-400 years to completely use up millions of years of energy deposits in form of fossil fuels. That gave a nice jump start to industrialized society, but it is clear that at some point very very soon, we will have to collect energy from renewable sources, or go back to the pre-19th century style of living. You can hide your head in the sand all day long and make excuses all day long that the technology is not here, but it doesn't change the facts that we need to arrive there sometime. By the way, your view that if PV technology today is not efficient enough, it will never be, is more of a "horseshit" statement than my assertion that within a couple of centuries we will be largely weaned off fossil fuels, with electricity being the primary method of storing and transferring energy. Of course, there will be always need for other types of fuels, for example aviation will most likely remain fossil-fuel based for a long long time, and I can see nuclear power taking over as the main source of energy for sea transport propulsion.

So back to electric cars, in fact let's expand that to ground transportation in general. Electric-powered vehicles use energy more efficiently than internal combustion and with (potentially) less impact on the climate. Battery technology caught up to the point where there are practical vehicles that don't require major change in lifestyle (like everyone hopping onto electric bicycles for the sake of energy conservation, for example). Having privately owned, widely distributed battery banks gives us short-term energy storage and counterbalances the unpredictability of the most direct sources of renewable energy, such as solar and wind.

It's inevitable, folks. And the sooner we get going on this, the better.

3/14/2014 3:35:09 PM

Quote :

"We have to clean up our power plants and power grid first otherwise we are gust centralizing emissions."

This isn't true. Even if we were to go completely electric by simply extending our current grid, the reduction in total CO2, particulates, and waste would be tremendous.

Even coal power is tremendously cleaner than the gas/diesel vehicles they can offset for an electric car standard. The problem is most people only compare the direct fuel expended. You have to take into account the MASSIVE cost, pollution, waste and side-effects. Drilling, transport, refining, all of the secondary limited life products (catalytic converters, seals, motor oil, coolant, filters, et al).

The trailing arm for internal combustion based vehicles is absolutely monstrous.

3/15/2014 1:01:50 AM

Quote :

"Based on most projections, we will run out of fossil fuel reserves within a century, if we continue on the current path. That means it will take humanity 300-400 years to completely use up millions of years of energy deposits in form of fossil fuels."

Oh look, we got us a peak oil guy here, how cute. Then he says that hydro and geothermal are "sun-derivative" energy sources. Then he makes the bogus observation of all the "solar radiation hitting the earth's surface that we don't use," not knowing the vast majority of it is, frankly, thermodynamically unusable.

3/21/2014 11:44:12 PM

Don't come in here sounding all condescending and then not offer any arguments. Why don't you give us some data about how oil and gas will last us forever, how hydro and residential geothermal is not derivative of sun energy (OK, industrial-scale geothermal uses energy from the earth core, still a hell more sustainable). As far as your last point, you know that shale gas deposits were "unusable" until all the conventional fields started running out and we had to improve the technology. We don't have to capture "most of it". We need to capture a fraction of a percent. Now either offer us your theory on the future of transportation, or GTFO back into the Soapbox or Chitchat or wherever you came from.

3/22/2014 8:11:26 AM

Quote :

"Then he says that hydro and geothermal are "sun-derivative" energy sources."

Hydro is sun-derived, dumbass. What do you think makes the water evaporate and rain uphill?

3/22/2014 3:45:26 PM

There's nothing like the warm, cozy crackling of a solar fireplace.

3/22/2014 4:24:43 PM

^^ it's lunar bruh. them tides!

3/22/2014 4:47:22 PM

^^^if you're going with that argument, then fossil fuels are also sun-derived. Dude is just busting out that term to try and add some gravitas behind his otherwise intellectually bankrupt ideas.

Quote :

"Don't come in here sounding all condescending and then not offer any arguments."

I don't have to "offer any arguments" to scoff at your peak oil chicken-little BS. Sure, let's get better energy sources, but not because of the bogus and scientifically refuted and farcical boogeyman of peak oil.

3/22/2014 10:56:46 PM

Quote :

"if you're going with that argument, then fossil fuels are also sun-derived."

Yeah, there are a ton more steps involved in creating fossil fuels.... How can you think that hydroelectric is not sun-derived? Don't you remember the water cycle from elementary school? I mean, it's not exactly obvious, but aren't you a nuclear engineer? The sun is entirely responsible for evaporating water (not to mention allowing it to remain liquid), and partially responsible for carrying it elsewhere.

3/23/2014 12:28:37 AM

Quote :

"I don't have to "offer any arguments" to scoff at your peak oil chicken-little BS. Sure, let's get better energy sources, but not because of the bogus and scientifically refuted and farcical boogeyman of peak oil."

I didn't say anything about peak oil, you are putting worlds in my mouth. I said eventually we will run out of fossil fuels, and gave an optimistic estimate based on current projection. If you want to add a few hundred years or a millennia to it, you are welcome to do it. The point is, they will run out. Do I need to draw you a graph that shows how long it takes new deposits to form vs how fast we are burning through them?

You have not offered a single argument, fact or idea, just name calling. That makes you a troll. So I'm not even going to bother replying anymore until you provide some evidence where I was wrong or give us your own theory about long term energy future of humanity.

3/23/2014 11:48:34 AM

I love how people toss around peak oil like it makes a meaningful difference. I don't really give a damn if there's enough deposits underground to last us for 500 years (and, given all the shale oil and gas we've started extracting, who knows)...shit's still going to run out, and going to become more and more expensive to get to. Plus it's still dirty--and much dirtier in individual vehicle form than in aggregate oil or gas-fired power plant format. Moreso even than coal.

Also--and I'm no expert--PV may not all that in large scale, but I'm at a loss as to why it isn't used more often to augment grid power for individual homes. Even if it doesn't provide a massive cost savings or only achieves break-even of install cost, I'd feel better knowing I was using that much less grid power.

3/23/2014 8:35:49 PM

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s

5/14/2014 1:00:11 PM

^^

cost/ROI is still on the wrong end of the value equation... at least in the US.

5/14/2014 2:53:57 PM

^because we live in a throw-away society

5/14/2014 3:06:46 PM

Quote :

" Moreso even than coal"

Could you provide proof, of your statement that coal plant emissions are cleaner than that of an average car on the road, such as a 5 year old Toyota Camry? Because I highly doubt that.

5/15/2014 10:29:59 AM

Quote :

"your statement that coal plant emissions are cleaner than that of an average car on the road, such as a 5 year old Toyota Camry"

Come onnnnn buddy, he's talking about all vehicles, now one vehicle versus an entire coal plant.

Quote :

"much dirtier in individual vehicle form than in aggregate oil or gas-fired power plant format. Moreso even than coal."

[Edited on May 15, 2014 at 10:37 AM. Reason : but i doubt he's right]

5/15/2014 10:36:49 AM

hell if we talking aggregate emissions, 16 container ships generate more pollution than all of the world's cars combined if this is credible: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-16-ships-create-pollution-cars-world.html

5/16/2014 10:19:29 AM

^more sulfur pollution. Not that it's a good thing, I do think the bunker fuel could be refined to decrease sulfur pollution, but the problems with emissions are caused by much more than just sulfur. I don't know if you read past the title.

Quote :

"Come onnnnn buddy, he's talking about all vehicles, now one vehicle versus an entire coal plant."

I'm pretty sure he meant "pollution created by the coal plant while generating enough electricity to move a comparably-sized electric car"



[Edited on May 16, 2014 at 3:54 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2014 3:48:13 PM

By the way, while we are on the subject of energy generation, sounds like sumfoo1 selfpwnt himself again

Quote :

"Wow you really don't know shit about solar do you. When I see solar collector boiler making powe in nc I'll agree. But pv is horseshit and if you dot know that then you don't know enough for me to debate this with you."

"In the last three years, however, the economics have turned decidedly in favor of PV technology. A glut of PV panels, made mostly in China, has pushed their prices down 62 percent since Ivanpah’s construction began in 2010, sinking from $1.87 per watt to about 71¢. While at least three other concentrating solar plants are set to join Ivanpah by 2016, many others are being converted to PV or canceled. "

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-14/2014-outlook-solar-energy-shakeout-concentrating-vs-dot-photovoltaic

You might want to tone down your all-knowing rhetoric, because your research skills continue to suck.

5/16/2014 4:10:27 PM

Hah

First that post is old as balls dude.
And in this you can really go fuck yourself.

I manage and design MEP systems. People keep trying to sell us solar but since we can't get tax credits they just back out the door slowly or, they offer to rent our roofs and sell us the power so they get the tax credits in some shady scheme to fuck tax payers.
You sir also should know that those solar cells won't last as long as others


But if you really want to prove me wrong I have 1.2 million square feet of roof space and thousands of acres of land, if are you to fine a reputable contractor to propose a business case without tax incentives that will sign a contract with penalties when the system does not perform I can shovel money in their direction.

But they won't there is still no business case.

Also are you aware of how much maintenance they are ?

Just so you know you have to clean your panels regularly or you lose 20% of the efficiency of the cell.

Also you should know they don't make power from the sun they are a fucking battery that requires radiant energy to operate. (Dissimilar metals trade electrons through an electrolyte sound familiar?)

If what you say is true duke progress would buy so many the price would go right back up.

Don't be a fucking greenie moron man. I support green power Pv isn't green.

And fucking business week dude? Come the fuck on... Those morons will write anything to shift stock prices around.

You running cheap shit Pv on your house?

But in all seriousness if you want to meet on this and discuss I can show you a stack of project proposals that will lose tax payers money if we did them. Every year we get pushed to take these projects and improve our "green image" and "save tax payer money" but when you ask the right questions the schemes are exposed and the pv is still useless.


[Edited on May 16, 2014 at 8:39 PM. Reason : ? I think I took troll bait....]

5/16/2014 8:29:30 PM

I run PV on my house; it works great, and it was a screaming bargain...when $15,300 of the total $17,600 cost was subsidized. Gross costs have been reduced by about 50% just in the last few years, but it's still not cost effective unless you're spending other people's money.

5/16/2014 11:14:57 PM

It was put on the bathrooms of 3 of our parks before we became responsible for managing park construction.

Our 7 year old cells make about 38% of what they were supposed too. And never made more than 80%.

5/17/2014 8:21:59 AM

Quote :

"First that post is old as balls dude. And in this you can really go fuck yourself."

Your post is from three months ago. The article is from November of last year. Were there industry-shifting breakthroughs that happened within the last few month? Also, this paragraph adds you great credibility and really shows how eloquent you are. Old as balls? Is that, like, in science-speak? Are these for mentioned balls an alliteration to starts, planets, and other celestial bodies that were formed millions of years ago?

Quote :

"I manage and design MEP systems. People keep trying to sell us solar but since we can't get tax credits they just back out the door slowly or, they offer to rent our roofs and sell us the power so they get the tax credits in some shady scheme to fuck tax payers."

So you are looking at it from YOUR point of view of someone who has been unable to incorporate solar into his designs for one reason or another.

Quote :

"You sir also should know that those solar cells won't last as long as others"

Those solar cells? You mean Chinese-made? What isn't these days? Weren't you eyeing about a hundred of Chinese-made batteries for the electric bike you are building? Aren't you aware they will not last as long as others?

Quote :

"But if you really want to prove me wrong I have 1.2 million square feet of roof space and thousands of acres of land, if are you to fine a reputable contractor to propose a business case without tax incentives that will sign a contract with penalties when the system does not perform I can shovel money in their direction. But they won't there is still no business case"

I don't have to prove you shit. The fact that concentrated solar market share is declining while PV solar is rising proves that there is a business case. Hell, Businessweek ways there is a business case. Who am I to believe, an industry publication, or a hack that can't get his estimates on a small project within 400% margin?

Quote :

"Also are you aware of how much maintenance they are ?"

What, they have to be dusted every once in a while, when it hasn't rained in a while or the pollen season is upon us? That sounds like a ton of work! Are you aware of how much maintenance coal and nuclear power plants are? You have to bring trains full of fuel that you have to mine elsewhere, you have to pump millions of cooling water through the plant, you have to deal with emissions. And did I mention you have to constantly buy fuel???

Quote :

"Don't be a fucking greenie moron man. I support green power Pv isn't green."

Don't be a Republican douchebag [/sarcasm]

Quote :

"And fucking business week dude? Come the fuck on... Those morons will write anything to shift stock prices around."

Sorry, they have more credibility that some random foo1 on the internet who claims

Quote :

"You running cheap shit Pv on your house?"

No, because I live in an apartment building. If I lived in a 'burbs in my own house with my private roof (actually it's just a matter of when), you bet I will have PV panels.

Quote :

"It was put on the bathrooms of 3 of our parks before we became responsible for managing park construction. Our 7 year old cells make about 38% of what they were supposed too. And never made more than 80%."

That's a real large-scale installation there. Do you always get assigned to flagship projects like this? You must be a real mover and a shaker.

But seriously, are you bitching about getting free electric power just because you didn't get as much as you expected? So you made a mistake of installing them based not the rated power and not adjusting for a real world-scenario. I can understand that, I always expect my vehicle to live up to its EPA rated fuel economy, even when I'm towing a boat with the windows down and A/C on full blast.

5/17/2014 9:30:04 AM