So say you clocked the AMD 965 (3.3ghz) to what the AMD 980 is (3.7ghz). You'd still be behind what an older Lynnfield i5-750 can do at 2.66ghz. Both quad core.

4/13/2012 12:34:36 PM

Quote :

"i'd love to see a list of games that are more cpu-intensive than they are gpu-intensive...or a list of games that would significantly benefit from a primo cpu"

Quote :

"There's plenty of games. Take Skyrim for example"

unless i'm reading it wrong (and i might be), that doesn't "prove" anything...i have zero problem playing skyrim on my computer and it's the aforementioned AMD 925 proc...so in the context of this debate, what possible advantage would i see from having a faster CPU?

4/13/2012 12:59:25 PM

It just depends on:

A. Settings you run Skyrim on (high-medium-low AF/AA etc)
B. Resolution and refresh rate (60/120)
C. Whether you mod (add a bunch of texture upgrades that require the extra processing)

I'm running Skyrim at 1080p 120hz with a bunch of texture upgrades with an i7 at 4.0ghz and a 580 3GB overclocked and I barely maintain 50-80 FPS as is and normally hit 1.5-2GB of VRAM.

Sure you CAN run games with slower processors but that just restricts how much you actually enhance the game.

3D and/or surround (3 monitors) is a whole other story. You need every FPS you can get to tackle those.

Stimwalt runs 2 580's for 3D. I don't know if he does surround or not but you get a huge benefit from running a faster processor if you start doing stuff in 3D. Not only does it put a huge load on the GPU(s) but it taxes the CPU as well:

Quote :

"Active stereoization incurs runtime costs as well. For example, most titles already budget their draw call count to get the maximum fidelity possible while maintaining playable frame rates. Active stereoization will result in substantially more draw calls-up to twice as many—which can result in an application becoming severely CPU limited."

-Nvidia

Oh and games like BulletStorm are REALLY FUN when you're playing in 3D.

[Edited on April 13, 2012 at 1:17 PM. Reason : s]

4/13/2012 1:15:49 PM

I don't do surround. Skyrim in 3D at 60fps sustained is literally a religious experience.

4/13/2012 1:21:24 PM

Yeah I've been alternating between really res textures and 60+ fps and having to turn stuff down to play in 3D. It's a hard decision. I need a second 580.

4/13/2012 1:24:07 PM

you guys are doing an excellent job of proving my point...you have video cards that are something like FOUR TIMES (per card!) the cost of his CPU...hell, each of your cards costs right around what my rig cost to build

faster may always be better in terms of computers, but (comparatively) rare is the person who will use their computers to their full potential and rarer still are the people who are totally fine throwing gobs of money at their rigs to get the "perfect" experience as infrequently as they achieve it

fwiw, i'm not trying to be a douche...i envy you your rigs, but i much prefer the money i saved building a perfectly enjoyable machine...i'll never be one to buy porsche, either, because i don't need to go 120 when i'm content to do 80...to each their own and as long as everyone's happy with their choices (as Hiro most likely will be), then everything's copacetic

4/13/2012 2:56:33 PM

You claimed that games don't significantly benefit from an excellent processor, and they do.

On the last page, compare the Intell Core i7-3960X (3.30GHz) to the AMD Athlon II X2 265 (3.30GHz) and you will notice a dramatic difference of nearly 50.

So yeah, no.

4/13/2012 3:42:56 PM

@quagmire02: Point of order, I don't hate AMD, but I respect their price/performance chips on both the cpu and gpu markets. Its, just that Hiro claimed that his newly acquired X4 965 was miles better than a similarly priced i3 2100 when in fact they are very similar in performance across the board; even in multi-threaded applications.

Sandy Bridge design is much more optimized and can do more work per cycle, plus for repetitive tasks (as most multi-threaded apps tend to be), it has a very advanced predictive branches to basically recycle steps that would have been otherwise nullified and wasted for the entire instruction set until the bit was purged. Even when bit errors occur, the predictive branches can purge the system before it gets too far gone down the pipeline so it can start again, leading to less wasted clock cycles. You'd be surprised of how many clock cycles are actually wasted during normal operations.

Quote :

"who cares if a better performing/OC'ing CPU is "only" $100 more? what do you people do on a regular basis that is so CPU-intensive that it ACTUALLY matters"

And this basically says it all, only users who need the speed should actually get the speed. For most consumers, even a cheapo pentium G530 is more than fast enough to do basic tasks; reason why we see a huge rise in small sized x86 cpu's/apu's. At this point, AMD and Intel are trying to hit better performance/wattage instead of just performance in general. This is where efficiency is king.

Honestly, even grandma may need a powerful price/performance computer for her high performance "scrap booking" aka iMovie HD rendering or whatever have you. Seniors are a huge market in the last few years as they transition to becoming computer literate. I just taught a retired couple on how to do video editing so they can share it on youtube of their recent travels. Bagged them a decent i5 2500 system.

Quote :

"unless i'm reading it wrong (and i might be), that doesn't "prove" anything...i have zero problem playing skyrim on my computer and it's the aforementioned AMD 925 proc...so in the context of this debate, what possible advantage would i see from having a faster CPU?"

Skyrim's engine is a very scalable system. You can play Skyrim on intel's IGP HD 3000 gpu with no lag or on a kickass gaming rig with 4 gpu's.

That benchmark was showcasing on the extremes that Skryim can very much be a cpu intensive game, once you hit a certain point. That's all it proves. You only need one piece of evidence to prove this against an argumentative fallacy.


And relaying Stim's point:

Quote :

"You claimed that games don't significantly benefit from an excellent processor, and they do."

And obviously, quagmire02, you do not fit the target market so don't even try to understand those who "waste" money for a particular lifestyle.

4/13/2012 4:01:21 PM

Quote :

"You claimed that games don't significantly benefit from an excellent processor, and they do."

no, actually, i didn't

Quote :

"And obviously, quagmire02, you do not fit the target market so don't even try to understand those who "waste" money for a particular lifestyle."

uh, you realize that when you "quote" something, it generally means that it was actually SAID, right?

in any case, i was waiting for someone to get their panties in a bunch over my PERSONAL preference of saving hundreds of dollars and having a computer that plays games just fine

i didn't say anyone was WASTING their money...but coming into a thread to post comments like the ones below makes the posters dickbags...if a person wants to throw hundreds of dollars into their rig to squeeze out a few more FPSs, i couldn't care less, but it's a real douchebag who thinks blowing less money than they did makes a person stupid...i am more than content knowing that i enjoy skyrim just as much as any of you and i do it spending hundreds less

Quote :

"Why the hell did you go AMD"

Quote :

"I was about to say that."

Quote :

"Seriously, anyone that tries to justify AMD at this point is off their rocker."

Quote :

"Intel is King, no contest."

i do find it quite amusing that those who spend so much money on their rig feel the need to defend their choices...folks should be happy knowing that they're happy, not struggling to convince everyone who doesn't do what they do that they're happy

[Edited on April 13, 2012 at 7:12 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2012 7:09:19 PM

Quote :

"i do find it quite amusing that those who spend so much money on their rig feel the need to defend their choices...folks should be happy knowing that they're happy, not struggling to convince everyone who doesn't do what they do that they're happy"

Hiro was trying to justify his purchase decision with invalid information to compare various products and making outrageous claims out of ignorance about the products. This is all I'm trying to reply to.

Also, ignore the AMD haters. Let them bask in their own ignorance. Intel maybe King, but AMD holds a lot of value. I just hope the next FX chips coming out later will finally put them back near the top again. It's just sad when you make a new high end chip and it's only comparable to a mid-range 2 yr old cpu design.

And btw, when someone uses actual quotes and not the quote tags, it can mean as an inference, not an actual direct quote... it was my own personal assessment, not a direct quote of you, but I understand your point and made it into a generality. It was to highlight the loose interpretation of my own opinion.

Waste is considered when your wants exceed your expectations; at that point, a person is attempting to achieve a set requirement beyond their needs, wants or expectations into a realm of extremes, where price is no object. This is where your personal value and lifestyle choices plays a huge role in your purchasing decisions.

Quote :

"i am more than content knowing that i enjoy skyrim just as much as any of you and i do it spending hundreds less"

Good for you, again, your lifestyle choices don't reflect those of whom spend $$$ on a hobby like computer games to extremes. I have a friend who just spend $1500 on three 680's and now talking about buying a 4th. A waste? you bet. Even he says its a waste of money, but that's his decision to make.

4/14/2012 12:44:47 AM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128519&Tpk=GA-970A-UD3

4/24/2012 11:55:54 PM

So I am in the market to finally purchase a laptop. I'd like to keep the price somewhere near 1,000 bucks. Basically came down to this or a new ipad and just way more things I can do with a laptop so I am going that route. This will be used mostly for multimedia type stuff. As far as games go as long as it can play things like WoW and Diablo 3 on at least medium if not high settings I should be good. No need to be able to play any of the extreme graphic intensive games. Also needs to do 720p with 1080p being a plus for HD videos. No need for a BluRay drive either so that should help the cost some. Anyone have any personal experience or suggestions?

4/26/2012 9:14:32 AM

Found my case:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5633975

$59.99+tax after MIR.



I'm still looking for a Motherboard <$100. I would love an Asus, but I haven't found one I like yet. I was looking at a ASUS M5A97 but about 15% of the reviews have issues with the board, either DOA or some random issue (audio port, hardware recognition, boot errors, etc). Similarly, there are about 15% failure rates on the GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3. :/ Maybe I need to up my price point? I'd like to be able to overclock my system, especially since the memory controller on the CPU is initially limited to 1333MHz. I'd like to bump it up to 1600MHz to utilize my memory's full potential.

4/26/2012 7:38:01 PM

FML. I walked out with a different case

4/26/2012 9:40:18 PM

Quote :

"ASUS M5A97 "

I just bought this board a couple of weeks ago and absolutely love it. It's worked perfectly right out of the box, didn't even have to tweak memory settings. It's the first AMD motherboard I've had in years that accurately read the SPD settings on the memory.

It's just about the best socket AM3+ board you can get for the price point, and all the new high end boards are all moving to the new socket (FM1?)

4/27/2012 4:16:11 PM

What is the best price/performance right now for nvidia?

I need as fast as I can get that won't bottleneck on CPU or HDD for Premiere Pro CS6

5/2/2012 3:57:35 PM

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/29/nvidia-geforce-gtx-690-dual-kepler-gpu-graphics-card-announced/

5/2/2012 3:58:08 PM

Hell, I can't even find the 680 in stock*!

*I see them on Amazon, but not on Newegg.

[Edited on May 2, 2012 at 4:04 PM. Reason : .]

5/2/2012 4:02:03 PM

I'd wait on the 685.

5/2/2012 4:09:28 PM

As long as my current setup can play Diablo 3 well, then I'll be content to wait until August when my girlfriend steals it and I am forced to finally upgrade my other machine.

5/2/2012 4:13:31 PM

Blizzard's always good about legacy support. I doubt the hardware requirements will be that high for D3.

5/2/2012 4:50:38 PM

Few good deals I thought I'd pass along:

Corsair Force Series GT CSSD-F120GBGT-BK 2.5" 120GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$129.99 after MIL

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233191&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL050112&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL050112-_-EMC-050112-Index-_-SSD-_-20233191-L06D

ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM
$17.99 w/ Free Shipping Promo Code EMCNENJ26

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL050112&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL050112-_-EMC-050112-Index-_-CDDVDBurners-_-27135204-L0A

SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM SATA Model SH-222BB/BEBE - OEM
$15.99 w/ Free Shipping Promo Code EMCNENJ34

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151244&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL050112&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL050112-_-EMC-050112-Index-_-CDDVDBurners-_-27151244-L01D

CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$89.99 w/ Promo Code EMCNENJ32

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145347&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL050112&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL050112-_-EMC-050112-Index-_-DesktopMemory-_-20145347-L01B


[Edited on May 2, 2012 at 10:44 PM. Reason : .]

5/2/2012 10:43:46 PM

D3 beta runs fine on a 460.

Also, catalyst. You don't need high video requirements for Premier Pro. Just grab something like a cheap 460/550 ti; more than enough speed for such needs. Just don't skimp out on the CPU and adding a good SSD (raid is nice too) are better investment than a powerful gpu for the sole purpose of premier pro. They still haven't ported all the filters or transcoding abilities to run on CUDA yet.


The SSD is a decent price, but the M4 128GB SSD that was on sale this week for $105 was a much better deal. Also, the corsair 16GB kit has been around $80 AR multiple times; not exactly a good deal, specially if you get in on deals for 2x8GB kits for 30-40 a set.

[Edited on May 2, 2012 at 10:48 PM. Reason : ^deals]

5/2/2012 10:45:42 PM

^ What's with that "slow" write speed on the Crucial? I know in real world, it's still fast enough to not matter, but I'm still curious.

[Edited on May 2, 2012 at 10:54 PM. Reason : .]

5/2/2012 10:53:07 PM

the crucial m4 is relatively slow compared to other similar sync ssd's in its class, but its still considered one of the most reliable unit on the market for a good price and actually very fast with compressed files, beating vertex 3 and most other ssd's in it's price range in a number of tests. For the quality of a sync nand ssd, the m4 for $105 was damn cheap.

5/2/2012 11:18:20 PM

^ I agree. Pricing is really good.

5/2/2012 11:20:26 PM

Off topic....but does anyone know when the bookstore will get cs6?

5/5/2012 5:13:08 AM

what do you yall think of:

ASRock 970 EXTREME3 AM3+ AMD 970 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157280&Tpk=ASRock%20970%20EXTREME3

and

GeForce GTX 560 Superclocked Video Card - 2GB, GDDR5
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=555358&CatId=3669

i was looking hard at the phenom ii x6 1090t processor to go with that mobo

5/5/2012 12:56:12 PM

Okay,

Which motherboard do i go with. My current biostar (nearly 4 years old has some bad caps).

Im planning on replacing a old phenom with a amd 790gx motherboard with an I5-Ivy Bridge and a z77 motherbard...which will hopefully last me another 4 years

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157296
AsRock
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138355
Biostar
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128543
Gigabyte

MB brands have changed up a bit since i built last. I went budget biostar last time and its held up great, but bios updates have been infrequent. I like the gigabyte 4x usb3

Don't know if ill ever run crossfire or anything, I just haven't been that hardcore into gaming as of late.

5/5/2012 11:51:30 PM

Those mobos are all pretty much the same. I would get the cheapest one or the one that matches your color scheme, if you have one. Gigabyte may update the bios more often but after you get a system stable and running, do you really keep updating the bios and hope it doesn't break anything?

5/7/2012 7:04:20 AM

Went with the AsRock, as their z68 boards seemed the most popular.

5/7/2012 8:55:57 AM

I have the ASRock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 and I have been very happy with it.

5/7/2012 2:27:28 PM

Where can I find a good deal on Windows 7 64bit Home Premium?

I only know of this place:

http://www.discountmountainsoftware.com/miwi7hoprupo1.html?cmp=gp

5/10/2012 8:27:32 PM

Would anyone have any interest in buying 2 Radeon HD 6950 Toxic Editions? Both are unlocked and run fine as 6970s

5/10/2012 9:15:01 PM

What ya upgrading to?

5/10/2012 10:29:59 PM

i just need an nvidia equivalent.....i don't play games much anymore, but I spend most of my time in Premiere Pro and I need CUDA support

5/10/2012 10:46:05 PM

Found Windows 7 64bit Pro for $75+free shipping. Thanks Pricewatch.com!

5/11/2012 3:53:19 PM

I might be interested in 1... I just had to RMA my 6950 reference today.

Does anyone know the trick to getting Win7 dvd to boot? I upgraded my mobo and cpu and I can't get the dvd to boot to re-install windows. The system doesnt have bios - it's that m5a97-evo

[Edited on May 11, 2012 at 9:29 PM. Reason : super weird, a burned AiO vista dvd works fine]

5/11/2012 9:19:26 PM

^It's called UEFI. And you just set the DVD drive as a boot device.

Sounds like your disc is hosed.

5/11/2012 10:52:19 PM

i tried both 32bit and 64bit win7 dvds from ms. anyone got a good AiO iso they can link me? preferably with sp1 or other patches slipstreamed in. have my own legit key

5/12/2012 9:42:37 AM

the problem was actually the dvd drive. got an old ide drive out the closet and put it in a hdd enclosure and everything worked fine. I ended up with a 120gb ssd because I wasn't able to repair my windows install (replace the HAL) going from phenom II to bulldozer. now to wait on my video card RMA..

5/12/2012 5:16:02 PM

Is this worth $320?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133400

5/13/2012 1:07:30 AM

No because you can get a 670 2gb for that price that out performs the 580.

5/13/2012 10:11:40 AM

what about this: 2gb gtx 560 for $189

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500229&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-ZOTAC-_-14500229

5/13/2012 1:11:22 PM

Got the computer together and it booted up into bios perfectly! I did notice CPU temp was at 40*, MB at 30*. I'm using a Hyper 212+ heatsink and a couple of case fans. They are all blowing in the direction they should (front pulling air into the case, top and rear pushing air out of the case). I tried disabling some fans while others were on to see if I had too many fans, but nothing changed the MB or CPU temp. My only other thought was to take off the heatsink, clean it and the CPU chip, and reinstall. Any other thoughts, suggestions?

CPU fan is pulling air through the heatsink, blowing towards the top of the case. CFM flow of top case fans are greater than the CPU heatsink fan CFM.

5/14/2012 6:31:16 PM

Heatsink fan is set to push air from the bottom, through the heat sink, and out the top. I've managed to get temps down to 37*C.

Keep in mind, ambient temperature in this room is ~85*F after about an hour. (30*C). yes I know the room gets hot. Small room + Big CTR, well. yeah... Plus I usually have my thermostat at 78* in the summer.

[Edited on May 14, 2012 at 9:46 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2012 9:45:34 PM

Nevermind those posts above.

~37* cpu idle temp in a 28* room. I've read a stock cooler will idle at around 45* I just remember how cool my previous single core computers ran, but I know it's apples to coconuts here.

I'm not worried. We'll see once i get an os installed and can stress test.

[Edited on May 15, 2012 at 4:49 PM. Reason : .]

5/15/2012 4:49:06 PM

Neodata, where can I get a 670 for $320?

5/15/2012 5:09:08 PM

i BELIEVE i recall someone made fun of my last year for asking this question, but i still don't remember the answer and don't care to search...

2 x 2GB cards in crossfire doesn't mean 4GB of video memory right....just 2GB copied or something.

so if that is the case...if i moved to a single 2GB card i'm not taking a hit to video memory for high resolutions (assuming all other things equal)

that all being said...what current nvidia card gives the equivalent of 2 x radeon 6970s (1375 ram, 932 core)

5/16/2012 3:14:22 PM

Quote :

"Neodata, where can I get a 670 for $320?"

Woops I thought you meant $399.

5/16/2012 4:05:45 PM