imho, no at this point if you are going to spend $180 on out-dated CPU you might as well upgrade

after looking it seems there's a couple 3800+ x2 processors for $70

there is just NO WAY anything 2 generations old and AMD is worth $180, when you can buy a brand spanking new E8400 for $200

1/25/2008 7:58:46 PM

I agree, don't waste your money on old gen stuff. Just save up money to get the current tech. Shit, even the cheap intel and amd stuff will work wonders.

1/25/2008 8:06:37 PM

aight, thx. I'll keep that stuff in mind.

1/25/2008 8:06:39 PM

Is overclocking an 8800gt a reasonably simple thing to do?

1/25/2008 8:20:22 PM

yes, just use nvidia ntune
http://www.nvidia.com/object/ntune_5.05.54.00.html

1/26/2008 4:09:05 PM

so are those pcie 16x 2.0 slots good for anything other than a video card?

i dont need sli

[Edited on January 26, 2008 at 5:31 PM. Reason : 

1/26/2008 5:31:44 PM

no, there's nothing that uses that kind of bandwidth.

maybe a physics card, but even the TV tuners are PCIex1

1/26/2008 7:50:04 PM

I don't believe there are any other products to date on the 16x pci-e that doesn't use GPU's. The physics boards also use GPU's. Nvidia recently came out with their scientific version of SLI since gpu's can do specific math calculations a lot faster than a cpu.

1/27/2008 1:39:20 AM

well can you plug in a 1x card into a 16x slot?

1/27/2008 11:53:55 AM

I'm not too sure. I think you can install the 1x into the 4x and 16x, but don't quote me on that.

1/27/2008 2:05:57 PM

interesting

i just dont want to get stuck with a super mondo awesome motherboard with expansion ports that are useless because i dont need sli or crossfire

1/27/2008 2:08:14 PM

so i have two drives i'm comparing with HD Tach:

1) 74GB SATA WD Raptor 10,000RPM, added as a secondary drive
2) 250GB SATA Seagate ST3250310AS, 7200RPM, C drive,booting Vista

Once into Vista I run HD Tach, and it says:

1) Raptor: Burst speed is around 121 MB/s and the Sequential Read Speed stays around 70MB/s - Random access time is 7.9ms, Average read is 65.1MB/s

2) Seagate: Burst speed is 216 MB/s and the Sequential Read Speed stays around 95 MB/s. Random access time is 15.1ms, Average Read is 85.8 MB/s

Excluding the understandable difference in access time, do the read speeds make any sense?? Any reason to think that the only reason the Seagate is so much faster is because its the primary boot drive? Any settings or anything I need to check? I would think the Raptor would best this drive. I was gonna move the Windows installation to the Raptor but now I'm having second thought...

1/27/2008 5:53:23 PM

ok so i found some benchmarks for these two drives, and they match the numbers i produced.
I didn't mention that the Seagate is a 7200.10 series, which uses perpendicular recording.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/10063/12

If you look thru the various tests, the Seagate bests the 74GB Raptor on a number of tests, but not nearly all of them. I know what seek time is, but how important is it for everyday use, compared to much faster read times from the seagate?

If you had to choose between the two drives, which one would you run your OS on?
(I have plenty of other drives to use for storage, so thats not a concern)

1/27/2008 6:47:21 PM

i would run four of the seagates in RAID 10

1/27/2008 6:57:31 PM

well thats a HUGE help

thx yo

1/27/2008 7:11:08 PM

well you helped me, i was going to get 4 raptors for my next computer but if the throughput is greater with the seagates, then it will be cheaper and ill get the better seek time with RAID 10 than with just the seagate

1/27/2008 7:12:56 PM

sweet, glad i could help

(they have a 7200.11 now i think...don't know if thats any better)

1/27/2008 7:17:22 PM

Thoughts on this power supply?

http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/silencer-750-quad-black.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009

http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3186&p=2

[Edited on January 28, 2008 at 11:02 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2008 11:01:50 PM

PC P&C has always been in the top

I think they're overkill, you can get a solid PSU for <$100, but whatever

and you'll never use CLOSE to 750W unless you are going SLI or Crossfire and have 10 hard drives and a monster of a CPU

i have a new E8400/2gb/8800GTS/3HDD's/8xUSB devices and barely hit 200W on load (i have a controller that measures it)

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 9:23 AM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 9:22:35 AM

hell i have a Q6600 quad core system (3 hdds, integrated video currently) that only uses ~160 Watts when running folding@home

1/29/2008 9:24:56 AM

yeah i just want to get something that is reliable and I can use for the next 5+ years. One that I can do whatever upgrading I want in the future, SLI 8800 GTX or Ultra or whatever, 8gb memory, 4 hard drives, etc.

I just want whatever I get now to not need to be replaced for not being enough or not being reliable enough in the distant (as far as computers go) future

i do realize 750w might be overkill, but I was looking more at the review AnandTech gave it

1/29/2008 12:04:42 PM

well then why ask us?, lol

honestly just make sure you're buying from a reputable brand and look at the specs and you'll be able to tell which one's are quality and which one's aren't.

in specific:
a) make sure the hold up time is longer than 10ms (17ms is normal for high-end PSU's)
b) high-efficiency, typically means the higher quality PSU (solid caps, etc), aim for an 80+
c) active PFC, which usually leads to...
d) power factor of 0.9 or higher
e) 18+A on dual 12v rails minimum, the higher the better

Quote :

"yeah i just want to get something that is reliable and I can use for the next 5+ years. One that I can do whatever upgrading I want in the future, SLI 8800 GTX or Ultra or whatever, 8gb memory, 4 hard drives, etc."

based on that i'd say it's a perfect fit, especially with it's 5-year warranty

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 2:33 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 2:29:19 PM

Thoughts on the whole debate about a single rail versus dual rails? I've read mixed things about the subject: some people say that the dual rail is safer but tricky in balancing power loads while the single rail removes the issue of balancing but isn't officially certified for certain safety standards...

1/29/2008 3:23:04 PM

^^ i ask you guys because I like to be a smart shopper. I dont know everything or really that much about computer hardware compared to you guys. I do however like to do my homework so that I put my money toward something that I'm glad I purchased down the road. I can read all the reviews I want, but I come here to see what you guys think b/c most of you know a lot more than I do. Thanks for the advice so far!

I guess I'm still leaning toward that PSU from PC P&C b/c it looks good, but I'd settle for less if someone can convience (sp?) me of something else

1/29/2008 5:20:05 PM

how much is this pc worth?

Antec Mid-Tower Case
Zalman ZM400B 400W "Silent" Power Supply
Intel D945PSN Motherboard
Pentium D 2.8GHZ Dual Core Processor
2GB Corsair PC-5400 DDR2 RAM (4-4-4-12)
74GB Western Digital Raptor Hard Drive (10K RPM)
MSI PCI-X 6600GT Video Card (128MB of memory I think)
Diamond XS71DDL 7.1 Sound Card (Optical Out, Dolby Digital Live)
Ben-Q 16X DVD Drive
Lite-On 16X DVD-RW (DVD Burner)
Authentic copy of Microsoft Vista Business installed
Optical Mouse
Multimedia Keyboard

2/2/2008 5:27:13 PM

450-500$ w/ the os?

2/3/2008 3:20:38 AM

well assuming ^ is correct, i'd say 500 is a nice round number...if that does happen to be high, try that price on craigslist...if 500 is fair for that, and you need to get rid of it quick, try 450

2/3/2008 3:23:28 AM

so if you guys had ~$100 to spend on a video card, what would you get? I was thinking about the Radeon HD 2600 XT or the GeForce 8600 GT. For a couple more $ I was thinking about the X1900 or X1950 line...but I don't know about XTs, XTXs, Pros etc. Which card would you get (any certain makes that are better than others? XFX, MSI etc)

2/6/2008 1:03:11 PM

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html

has a good chart comparing FPS of different video cards under different conditions

2/6/2008 6:00:41 PM

think i can do any better than this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16814186029

(Assuming my little pc will accommodate that massive heat sink)

2/7/2008 1:56:22 PM

are you trying to be a cheapass or?

2/7/2008 2:33:01 PM

well yeah basically

i rarely game, and when i do its only play crap like quake3 and 4, BF2, Warcraft III, Starcraft etc. the ati800gto i had before was good enough for me, but now i want something with dual dvi.

2/7/2008 2:46:15 PM

thinking about this one, but willing to spend a little more if its worth it...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150258

plz to help tww

oh and also this one...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814241066

2/8/2008 2:40:00 PM

REMOVED: Oops. It was an 8600 but I read 8800 in my mind. $129.99 wasn't a good deal.

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 2:57 PM. Reason : -]

2/8/2008 2:55:38 PM

Might as well spend the little extra and get this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150272

You'll be able to play anything, and it's only 230$.

2/8/2008 3:47:37 PM

no thx, i don't game enough to wanna spend $250 on it...$150 is already a stretch.

2/8/2008 3:50:03 PM

Well, there is a 8600GT on sale for $130 at BestBuy.

2/9/2008 6:33:35 PM

Quote :

"well yeah basically i rarely game, and when i do its only play crap like quake3 and 4, BF2, Warcraft III, Starcraft etc. the ati800gto i had before was good enough for me, but now i want something with dual dvi."

oh, ok, then yeah that works

2/11/2008 12:46:26 PM

^

If someone's bored, feel free to spec me out a good bang for the buck mildly OC'able Intel based CPU/mobo + ram + case + powersupply deal.

2/19/2008 1:45:15 PM

well i can tell you it's going to be the E8400 (dual core) or Q6600 (quad core) for best bang/buck for cpu, choose a good MSI nforce or Gigabyte P35 board for stable, reliable OC'ing and a solid Antec Earthwatts, Thermaltake, Cooler Master, or Enermax Liberty PSU.

P180 black or silver or P182 for the case, and get the brand of memory that is most compatible with your board at least PC2-6400 (DDR2-800) or higher with a good brand that overclocks

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 2:19:56 PM

Case fan dust filters? Is there anywhere around that sells them? Tiger doesn't, neither do 2 local tech shops. I was thinking I could just tape in something I have around the house, that provides good airflow, yet will capture dust. Would toilet paper, coffee filter or piece of my a/c filter be incredibly stupid? I do not mind buying a good supply from newegg, but why not do things for free if they could work just as well..

2/20/2008 12:28:50 PM

^toilet paper & coffee filter are too thick

why not just spend $2
http://www.petrastechshop.com/fanfilters.html

i mean chances are the money you spend on a regular A/C air filter or an air filter for a car, or mosquito netting or whatever is going to end up costing more than if you just bought a cheap $2 filter made to do the job you want it to, not only that but the $2 case fan filter you buy will be reusable/washable.

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 12:39 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2008 12:34:16 PM

Okay. I didn't know if it was too thick or not. I'll just buy a couple of those.

Thanks Prospero.

--
I get my a/c filters for free at my apt complex. But i'll just get the filters from your link.
--

2/20/2008 12:40:19 PM

^^^^ thanks. i actually forgot i posted that. I'll look into that stuff in a bit.

2/22/2008 5:49:51 PM

So, my desktop and laptop are both kinda out of date, considering building a new one to keep up with the times. Primarily, wanna run Vista, do some school work, I use VMware a lot at work so I wanna be able to host some VMs for testing stuff, also I kinda got out of PC gaming mostly because didn't have computers good enough to play so I want to be able to game if some games come out that I want.

Haven't built one in a while so I'm kinda behind on some of the newer stuff but here's what I came up with:

What do you guys think?

2/23/2008 4:52:36 AM

Looks nice to me, but i'm not Prospero, so you should wait for his opinion.

These tech guys might also ask you what PSU you plan to get.

2/23/2008 5:40:45 AM

^Agreed, Prospero knows what he's talking about, and while I'm not him, I DO know him personally, and he usually listens to what I say

If you can afford an additional $100, go Quad-core, you'll thank yourself now AND a year+ from now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

Another thing you could consider is bumping up to 4gb of RAM instead of 2GB, but it's ok if you don't.

Otherwise, the rest honestly looks really very solid (even if you decide to stick with a dual instead of quad), I mean overall it is great so don't worry. Kudos to the P180 btw. Personal recommendation.

2/23/2008 6:08:41 AM

would it be better to get a 8800GT instead of a 8600 GTS for him?

2/23/2008 8:44:16 AM

He can always step-up (evga) if he feels he needs more power.

2/23/2008 9:33:11 AM

^^What's the difference between the 2? Can the GTS just be overclocked higher or something?

I really considered the quad core but I wasn't sure that I needed it.

Dang, I also didn't realize that case didn't come with a PSU

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 1:30 PM. Reason : quad]

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 1:33 PM. Reason : PSU]

2/23/2008 1:27:09 PM