what are the chances they redacted info in the New NOA?

I'd say...Damn good chances.

4/25/2016 9:22:13 PM

This shit

4/25/2016 11:30:45 PM

Yeah, how in the fuck does the NCAA go from:
yeah, men's basketball and football and women's basketball did a bunch of really bad shit for a long time...;
have UNC mention "oh, yeah, we cheated a little more in women's basketball and men's soccer, lol, start the clock again;"
have it proven that key mitigating factors in the initial NOA were straight up fabrications by the UNC;

and wind up with "only women's basketball was doing really bad shit for a lesser amount of time?"


Like, seriously, that is completely backwards. How did shit get better when UNC admitted to being worse?

4/25/2016 11:37:35 PM

Erskine Bowles will be filing for bankruptcy soon, after paying $17.8MM to the NCAA to sweep things under the rug.

4/26/2016 12:08:18 AM

^^ Yeah I just don't get how the NCAA can explain this, if they'll even bother. I'd have an easier time accepting the inevitable wrist slap if the new NOA had all the original stuff and in the end UNC got something pathetic, like a one year postseason ban in all sports. But to outright remove nearly everything from the NOA? How the hell does that work? Has the NCAA ever walked something back this much, other than Miami and Penn State were there were very obvious reasons why they did what they did?

4/26/2016 12:12:03 AM

I'm not putting too much stock in the <24 hour twitter/PackPride discussion of what this means. We'll see how it plays out. If it plays out in the next decade.

4/26/2016 12:15:04 AM

Yah fuck this thread and any idea that anything will happen to UNC basketball.

4/26/2016 12:58:00 AM

Remember this day as the day the NCAA was over. If there isnt some sort of class action lawsuit by everyone in America that can make a case for one I will be shocked.

4/26/2016 8:19:20 AM

Amended NOA took out WBB, MBB and FB in Allegation #5 and replaced it with "student athletes"

That leads me to believe they will use LOIC to punish all sports, not just the ones we specifically want to get punished.

Then again, I'm just an optimistic asshole.

4/26/2016 8:31:48 AM

I think we all know how this story ends

4/26/2016 8:47:42 AM

^Lots of commentators saying "overcome adversity" when UNC plays in ACC championship games and NCAA tournaments.

4/26/2016 9:13:53 AM

Like many others have said. UNC is going to come out of this with some mild punishment spread out over all sports that will make no difference whatsoever.

Honestly, I don't even care anymore. The NCAA is a sham entity and is just out to secure the next TV deal to line its pockets. It needs UNC. This co-dependence has protected the big name cheaters while throwing the hammer at the middle and lower tiers.

Add this to the one-and-done era, to the transfer/rent-a-player era, the ever changing conference affiliations, the declining quality of play... I'm done with college athletics. Give me the Panthers and Hornets and forget this ridiculousness.

4/26/2016 10:12:57 AM

Quote :

"I'm done with college athletics"

4/26/2016 10:16:15 AM

If this plays out how I'm sure it will, they need to just own the cheating and the prevailing and just embrace their dirtiness. But that needs to be their new reputation. No elite academic or athletic programs, no "public ivy." THIS needs to be what every other university sees them as, so that they'll eventually just lose the luster of their athletics program anyway. If the NCAA won't punish them, other schools should. Those championships were won by cheating and the future ones probably will be too. It will ruin the excitement and competition of tournaments.

And if the NCAA lets this go, everyone should just do whatever they want, players should be paid for the entertainment value of their abilities, and the term "student-athlete" should become obsolete and meaningless with a quickness. If the NCAA obviously and blatantly only cares about money, everyone else should just stop caring about integrity and go the same route.

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 10:40 AM. Reason : sss]

4/26/2016 10:39:15 AM

How many millions of dollars in communication teams, lawyers, etc did they spend since this broke? Its been what 5, 6 years?

They've replaced, entire football staff, president, AD, several professors, and support staff.

In all seriousness, in a normal infraction scenario, a severe financial fine on top of scholarship reduction might have been 500k at most.

We should all be pleased that this has cost them so much. I mean, at the very least, their women's basketball program is about to get hammered.

Coaches have admitted recruiting has indeed suffered from all the uncertainty.

Quite frankly, I am over the entire thing. I just want some more sanctions that include post season ban for a couple sports and some scholarship reductions.

I think one of the reasons we are not satisfied is that we don't feel the stain is as black and bold as we want it to be. That it isn't the first thing mentioned anytime someone brings up UNC.

Another is that on the surface, it doesn't look like any of the programs have suffered. They just came off one of their best football season in decades as well as the BBall program getting to the finals. How can they possibly be allowed to excel when having such a deep and widespread cheating scandal?

Anyway. F UNC

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 11:43 AM. Reason : fsd]

4/26/2016 11:42:39 AM

Quote :

" Coaches have admitted recruiting has indeed suffered from all the uncertainty."

There Football team played in the ACC Championship game this year and mens bball was in the national championship game. The whining about recruiting is can gtfo

4/26/2016 11:49:55 AM

Quote :

"Quite frankly, I am over the entire thing. I just want some more sanctions that include post season ban for a couple sports and some scholarship reductions."

yeah - i'd love to see 'em get hammered. i don't have my hopes up for that. and honestly, i'm quite over the entire thing and kinda have been for some while. if a big news item drops (like yesterday) i'm interested for a bit, but over it quickly. definitely don't follow it that closely anymore.

it's like a movie that's gone on way too long. just ready for the ending at this point.

4/26/2016 12:02:24 PM

Quote :

"Another is that on the surface, it doesn't look like any of the programs have suffered. They just came off one of their best football season in decades as well as the BBall program getting to the finals. How can they possibly be allowed to excel when having such a deep and widespread cheating scandal?"

This is what is going to annoy me until the end of time.

4/26/2016 12:15:45 PM

I'm as big of a UNC hater as anyone and I'd honestly gotten tired of hearing about the scandal, but it is absolutely absurd that this played out exactly like this:

Quote :

" Yeah, how in the fuck does the NCAA go from: yeah, men's basketball and football and women's basketball did a bunch of really bad shit for a long time...; have UNC mention "oh, yeah, we cheated a little more in women's basketball and men's soccer, lol, start the clock again;" have it proven that key mitigating factors in the initial NOA were straight up fabrications by the UNC; and wind up with "only women's basketball was doing really bad shit for a lesser amount of time?""

That doesn't even make a bit of logical sense. UNC did a disservice to their alums, the UNC system, and the NC taxpayers in a quest for basketball banners are going to get off totally free of any meaningful punishment. And their fans are totally cool with the black eye that their reputation and academic integrity took in the process.

If I'm USC, SMU, or one of those other schools that got punished for far less - I'm suing the NCAA. The Wainstein report outlined that this thing went back to at least 1993. Somehow the NCAA only finds that it went back to 2002 fall 2005. Ridiculous.

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 12:40 PM. Reason : tbdv]

4/26/2016 12:39:33 PM

Quote :

""I'm done with college athletics""

4/26/2016 1:07:27 PM

If I was UNC's lawyer team, I would just relentlessly overload the NCAA with filler arguments. Wear them down till they just try to make it end.

4/26/2016 1:11:34 PM

Can somebody total up how much UNC has spent on lawyers and PR firms? At one point I posted a tally in here, but it was 2 years ago or so.

I know it is easily in excess of 4 million dollars.

4/26/2016 1:29:48 PM

Quote :

"The totals released Monday reflect payments related to lawsuits filed by former student-athletes and employees, responses to the NCAA and other information requests. Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP received about $1.9 million in payments related to the scandal to provide counsel for four lawsuits, as well as a request for information from the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools. In response to the Wainstein report, the accrediting agency wanted to know whether the school was in compliance with several accreditation standards. Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft, LLP received about $2.7 million after the firm's release of the Wainstein report for the processing of public records. Bond Schoeneck & King Attorneys received about $1.3 million for "professional services and consultation" dating to November 2012 related to "the NCAA and other Department of Athletics matters." Daniel J. Edelman Inc. received about $1.7 million for seven months of "strategic public relations advice and services" regarding the scandal and other issues. "

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 1:34 PM. Reason : as of 10/15]

4/26/2016 1:33:53 PM

So roughly 8 Million dollars.... Roy: "Damn son, are yall sure all of that was non-taxpayer dollars?"

Somebody find UNC contributions to something good that can be used to show just how outrageous that amount is.

Charities or research for something they are doing on campus towards a disease.


BTW, is it public record how much money UNC sports programs brought in during a calendar year?

Quote :

"Please help corrupt college sports: http://giving.unc.edu/"

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 1:56 PM. Reason : _]

4/26/2016 1:37:42 PM

The most annoying thing to me about all of this is the UNC crowds celebration that men's bob and FB aren't named any more.

4/26/2016 2:05:45 PM

Quote :

"In 11 Missing Words, Some See Shift in N.C.A.A. Case Against U.N.C."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/sports/ncaabasketball/north-carolina-ncaa-academic-scandal.html

Quote :

"The 11 words, which had pointed an accusatory finger at the university’s most prominent teams, appeared in a notice of allegations sent by the N.C.A.A. to North Carolina last year but are not in the new one, which, an N.C.A.A. spokeswoman confirmed, has superseded the old one. The words that were removed are: “particularly in the sports of football, men’s basketball and women’s basketball.”"

td;dr aint shit gonna happen. UNC is too big to fail.

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 2:28 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2016 2:26:51 PM

Quote :

""Please help corrupt college sports: http://giving.unc.edu/"

The most galling part of this is that they already do a United Way giving campaign across all the University employees where they compare department participation percentages and totals. Now they have started pimping giving.unc.edu so we have the opportunity to give back to our employer.

My favorite though is still that they are educating the hospital staff to let patients know about chances to donate to the hospital. They are charged tens of thousands of dollars already and while they are still in the hospital they want the nurses to give them cards and information about donating to the fucking place. It disgusts me.

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 2:43 PM. Reason : ]

4/26/2016 2:42:46 PM

From the NY Times article:

Quote :

"The revelation that university personnel subverted the educations of hundreds of big-time athletes at first seemed to be the equivalent of the bat signal for the N.C.A.A., whose core principle states that players are students first, with sports forming a part of their larger educations. Arguably more than some of the eye-popping fodder of recent big-time college sports scandals — the Rutgers football coach urging a professor to allow a struggling athlete to complete extra-credit coursework to stay eligible, a Louisville men’s basketball assistant accused of paying prostitutes to entertain recruits in university housing — the North Carolina case appeared to strike at the heart of the N.C.A.A.’s fundamental mission. But after reopening its investigation in 2014, the N.C.A.A. has publicly questioned whether it ought to pass judgment on the merits of classes at individual member universities."

This is one of the parts that really annoys the shit out of me. The NCAA says it shouldn't be involved in the academic side, but the accrediting agencies can't be involved in any type of punishment for athletics. It seems pretty obvious the NCAA should work in conjunction with the accrediting agency for that college (SACS in this case) when cheating is on this type of a scale.


I wonder, is the NCAA afraid that UNC would sue them if they took away wins/titles on the basis they aren't supposed to be involved with the academics? Or is it just the sheer amount of money going from UNC to the NCAA?

4/26/2016 2:45:00 PM

Nike + Jordan

4/26/2016 3:08:56 PM

2016 Final Four:



also:

Quote :

"In the ByLaws it states that a university that is under investigation can not have any discussions with any one associated with the NCAA and the investigative team unless they were on campus. If this is true how did UNC head coaches communicate ahead of time with recruites and parents that basketball and football would be cleared"

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 3:13 PM. Reason : _]

4/26/2016 3:09:15 PM

Can the McCants lawsuit (or any of the others against the NCAA/universities) still help us at all? Anyone know their status?

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 3:23 PM. Reason : Grasping at straws over here]

4/26/2016 3:23:01 PM

The thing those lawsuits can do is force people to testify who refused to talk to the NCAA (which can't subpoena).

4/26/2016 3:25:44 PM

I mean. It's over.No one really has a stomach for a fight now if the NCAA lets UNC skate. The media, Kane, State fans will have to move on.

4/26/2016 4:21:32 PM

One of the other things that UNC spent $ on in addition to the firms used to help spin the scandal and engage in public relations assistance was the damned Wainstein report. They spent $ on the report that showed that this thing reached back to at least 1993. Then the NCAA comes in and says, "Nope, fall 2005".

UNC fans can easily debate the merits of what McCants said about Roy's knowledge of the whole thing. But the guy presented his transcript on national television and flat out presented proof that he would not have in any way been eligible to play in spring 2005 without those AFAM classes.

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 4:40 PM. Reason : tbdv]

4/26/2016 4:40:14 PM

I haven't given up hope yet. Bubba already said that in the 90 day window they'd be internally discussing any self-imposed penalties. So at minimum, I expect them to impose some half assed scholarship reductions or maybe a post season ban for 1 year in women's basketball. But we'll see.

4/26/2016 5:18:32 PM

Quote :

" If this is true how did UNC head coaches communicate ahead of time with recruites and parents that basketball and football would be cleared""

because the unc coaches didn't know that for a fact and didn't speak directly with the ncaa about that...they were guessing/speculating based on what they knew their lawyers were pushing for. which was the removal of basketball and football from the NOA. and also because it's recruiting and you can basically tell a recruit anything no matter if it has any factual basis or not.

4/26/2016 10:09:41 PM

You would expect them to lie through their teeth even if they were going to be hammered

4/27/2016 10:15:06 AM

Quote :

"One of the other things that UNC spent $ on in addition to the firms used to help spin the scandal and engage in public relations assistance was the damned Wainstein report. They spent $ on the report that showed that this thing reached back to at least 1993. Then the NCAA comes in and says, "Nope, fall 2005". "

This is what I don't understand. By everything I understand, NCAA institutions are required by the bylaws to self report violations. This is there because the NCAA doesn't have much real investigative power so the idea is that the schools have to at least police themselves even though that's kinda bullshit.

If this was a scenario where UNC didn't collect all this info then the NCAA would just be kinda screwed. But we have proof that UNC knows this information from the Wainstein report. They are required to report it, so the NCAA should have them dead to rights because either UNC reports it to the NCAA and then they don't have a huge burden of proof, or UNC doesn't and then they hammer them saying their own document show's negligence in reporting violations.

4/27/2016 10:25:54 AM

^^exactly...there's absolutely no reason not to lie to recruits, current players, etc

4/27/2016 11:32:46 AM

Roy said it to more than recruits though, he said it to the media directly stating they weren't mentioned in the new NOA before it was ever released. This happened during the cheater bowl (Syracuse vs. UNC) also known as the Final Four.

Quote :

"When asked Sunday during an ESPN interview at the NCAA tournament's Final Four about the chances that North Carolina gets hit by NCAA sanctions, Williams said he would be speculating, but "I don't think we're going to get hit in any way at all. Hard to penalize somebody when you have no allegations against them.''"

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15127691/roy-williams-expect-unc-hoops-get-hit-way-all-ncaa-sanctions

So how do you know there are no allegations against you in the coming amended NOA if you were mentioned in the original NOA unless the NCAA told you??

If we can't bring down UNC then lets go after the NCAA for being corrupt as it comes. I bet UNC could get off with having Sandusky on staff if Jordan offered to be an announcer for the NCAA (see pic above). All they care about is money and TV deals with nobody monitoring how they are proceeding with their own bylaws and rules.


[Edited on April 28, 2016 at 1:58 PM. Reason : _]

4/28/2016 1:51:16 PM

It's pretty obvious the NCAA was chatting with UNC during this process and word trickled down to the coaches that basketball and football were dropped.

4/28/2016 3:00:02 PM

Which is strictly prohibited in the NCAA bylaws.

4/28/2016 3:02:03 PM

Emmert pretty much said it himself at the NCAA tourney that UNC had been in talks with them the whole time negotiating.

4/28/2016 3:04:15 PM

but guys

unc was the most cooperative school under investigation in the history of ncaa investigations.

4/28/2016 6:11:08 PM

Oh my god, this Ole Miss story at the draft is going to completely bury any of the heat that UNC was going to get from the NCAA.

I hate the tarheels so much. Fucking teflon program.

4/28/2016 11:33:18 PM

RIP Ole Miss Women's Baskeball

4/29/2016 12:12:39 AM

nice try, troll, but muh Rebels Lady Vols Rebels haven't been investigated.

[Edited on April 29, 2016 at 12:13 AM. Reason : SEC]

4/29/2016 12:13:37 AM

I seriously hope that every school that has ever received an NCAA sanction due to academic misconduct joins together and files a massive class-action lawsuit over this. I imagine it would basically include at least every major D1 school at this point. Seriously, fuck UNC

4/29/2016 12:22:59 AM

Fuck other schools, im gonna email yow right now to ask her to offer our next big recruit $$$ and record that shit on camera.

Let's date the NCAA to hammer us after what they've let unc skate with. Fucking hell yeah?

[Edited on April 29, 2016 at 12:45 AM. Reason : ]

4/29/2016 12:43:53 AM

Between the UNC fiasco and Laremy already confirming what we pretty much already know about college sports, NC State Athletics will never see a dime of my money in f onations. We're always be a couple steps behind. Might as well just burn your money. Because you know if we ever get good for some reason and find ourselves one of the championship of any sort, we'll be investigated and sanctioned and a bunch of other NC State shit.

4/29/2016 6:52:56 AM