I thought we didn't know for sure that FB/MBB are off the hood officially. I thought it was just speculation as to what the new NOA meant, not necessarily that it negated the LOIC, etc. of the old one?

Either way, UNC is crooked as fuck and everyone knows it. I wish the national media would make a bigger deal about it.

The worst part about all of this won't be that UNC will get away with everything, but that their smug ass fans will say "I told you so!" and act like it was just a big NC State / N&O conspiracy against them all along and it ends up making us look worse.

Also, I hate how whenever it up to UNC fans they always say something along the lines of "oh like Jimmy V as clean" or some other bullshit. Kids selling some extra tickets or sneakers to get a little cash in their broke ass pockets is not even close to having an institutionalized, systematically fraudulent scheme to keep players eligible and be able to offer them essentially the ability to be able to play college ball without having to do any of the work associated with being a "student athlete".

8/2/2016 11:10:03 AM

Yeah this isn't really news, here. We know what the NCAA said so Carolina's response will be:

We don't think its as bad as you say, but we're sorry and it won't happen again

8/2/2016 11:42:05 AM

Quote :

"Still waiting for UNC's response. Boxill's ind. response begins: "It did not happen. Not one of the allegations against Jan Boxill is true.""

Boxill might end up being a turd in the punchbowl but I've resigned myself to being disappointed.

If NCAA wanted to send a message they could at least ban all sports from post season play for 5 years. They would get to keep all their ill gotten gains but it would torpedo some stuff, but it will never happen.

8/2/2016 11:53:12 AM

I think it will be interesting to see how they try to isolate the problem to those named in the NOA (boxill, crowder, nyangoro) while trying to fight against the LOIC and failure to monitor allegations. The Ol' "throw someone under the bus" technique. It's a valuable skill to know these days. Really I'm most interested to see if Women's BBall gets that treatment. If so, that is truly disgusting behavior and completely transparent for anyone that's followed the scandal.

8/2/2016 11:55:37 AM

8/2/2016 12:20:35 PM

Quote :

"“Jan Boxill’s interactions with students were conscientious efforts on her part to teach students by meeting and talking to them for hours and hours, monitoring their progress, explaining and critiquing their work, correcting their mistakes and helping them learn how to do college level academic work,” Roden wrote. “The bitter irony is that the handful of examples that UNC and the NCAA have chosen to question involve students whose personal life circumstances were unimaginably horrible,” the statement continued. “It was not because they were athletes that they needed, and got, extraordinary devotion and extra attention – it was because they were students who needed and deserved a college education. They were not going to survive in the University with the daily challenge of dealing with their life circumstances.” Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article93242727.html#storylink=cpy"

Oh fuck off with this bullshit white privilege, we just had to help the poor savages nonsense.

8/2/2016 12:57:25 PM

Quote :

"They were not going to survive in the University with the daily challenge of dealing with their life circumstances.”"

Ya know what happened to those of us who weren't athletes when life got shitty? We dropped out of school and did what we had to do. Welcome to life rather than arguing your point you just proved that they got special treatment over a normal college student.

8/2/2016 1:07:31 PM

Quote :

"but that their smug ass fans will say "I told you so!" and act like it was just a big NC State / N&O conspiracy against them all along and it ends up making us look worse."

yeah this is 100% gonna be the case (and already is, really)

and ^ exactly...that's the definition of preferential treatment, right?

8/2/2016 1:25:46 PM

Quote :

"Ken Medlin @kenmedlin Only a few pages in, but it seems UNC is going in with both barrels blazing on NCAA's authority in academic matters"

Yup, they of course have no shame in any of this.

8/2/2016 1:30:57 PM

Wow. So basically, UNC is admitting to everything, but telling the NCAA to go fuck themselves.

Going to grab some popcorn.

8/2/2016 1:38:39 PM

Quote :

"Andrew Carter @_andrewcarter Key first takeaway from my quick scan of UNC's response: It disagrees with lack of institutional control charge, and is fighting it."

And watch, they'll find a way to win.

Quote :

"Andrew Carter @_andrewcarter UNC argues basically what I thought it'd argue: If classes themselves weren't considered a violation, then why LOIC?"

[Edited on August 2, 2016 at 1:44 PM. Reason : Second Quote: Yeah NCAA basically gave them a legal out with the amended NOA.]

8/2/2016 1:43:11 PM

Yeah, DG just gave a brief summary and that was basically it.

Thrown under the bus: WBB, Nyang'oro, Crowder

All charges potentially connected to FB/MBB: "Go Fuck Yourself NCAA"

[Edited on August 2, 2016 at 1:46 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2016 1:45:33 PM

I keep telling myself that I'm not gonna let this rile me up again and then it happens anyway.

8/2/2016 1:49:34 PM

http://3qh929iorux3fdpl532k03kg.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/UNC-Response-to-2016-ANOA.pdf

73 pages

wonder what CrackRide will dig up

[Edited on August 2, 2016 at 1:53 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2016 1:53:38 PM

A bunch of the dates are redacted from the specific allegations against Boxill, are those in the amended NOA?

So much god damn legalese and referencing particular bylaws, it's pretty difficult to follow just skimming it.

I find it really hard to believe that the NCAA will just throw its hands up and accept that they don't have some jurisdiction on academic irregularities (this is mentioned repeatedly throughout the document) it would open such a huge can of worms for every university

8/2/2016 1:54:00 PM

yeah tons of legalese. basically unc is saying that SACS said they're fine, and the NCAA doesn't have authority over academics. I hope the response really pisses off the NCAA.

8/2/2016 2:01:10 PM

wtf? SACS didn't say they were fine, SACS put them on probation pending proof that they could fix their bullshit.

8/2/2016 2:04:52 PM

Quote :

"basically unc is saying that SACS said they're fine, and the NCAA doesn't have authority over academics"

if you're right, the obvious social follow up would be. "what would stop all athletic departments from doing this going forward?"

8/2/2016 2:06:26 PM

What would stop this is accreditation agencies, university amateur sport bodies, and state government bodies that oversee higher education that have teeth in enforcement actions.

The problem is the colleges run the first two and have no interest in an outside institution telling them what to do or giving them more power, and governments have little interest in doing the 3rd.

Carolina hired a really good well-paid lawyer to find that line of reasoning.

The NCAA might as well just dissolve.

8/2/2016 2:29:00 PM

It was never on the table that SACS would pull accreditation, but I can't believe they didn't keep them on probation another year at least.

8/2/2016 2:35:25 PM

^ Double secret probation?

The "flagship" university of the University of North Carolina school system and the oldest public institution in the country had blatant academic fraud going on for years in one of its departments funded by all of its students, their parents, North Carolina state government and taxpayers, and federal education funds, and what personally admitted wrongdoing, or judiciary trials investigating this at the state or federal level have taken place?

[Edited on August 2, 2016 at 2:47 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2016 2:44:45 PM

I personally wouldn't want them to lose accreditation. I give zero shits about the University as a learning center, I want their sports teams to pay for setting this up.

8/2/2016 2:48:22 PM

UNC sports disciplined^

8/2/2016 3:13:59 PM

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/17202608/north-carolina-tar-heels-skip-self-imposed-penalties-response-ncaa-charges

Quote :

"The school also said some charges were invalid because of an expired four-year statute of limitations"

That's funny b/c they delayed this process from the beginning. Old lawyer trick. Delay Delay Delay until the other side loses interest.

Quote :

"UNC acknowledged problems tied to irregular courses in a department popular with athletes on the Chapel Hill campus, but it argued that its accreditation agency -- not the NCAA -- was the proper authority to handle such a matter."

Also a lawyer trick; argue jurisdiction. Nothing fancy

My point being, the NCAA would know these two issues would be raised.

8/2/2016 4:14:24 PM

How stupid must they think the NCAA is?

Their accreditation is in jeopardy! The gall they have baffles me.

8/2/2016 4:24:20 PM

front page on /r/collegebasketball.

UNC fans are just laughing at the NCAA and acting like Carolina is taking a noble stance against the oppressive NCAA.

They're pretty much convinced that they're untouchable now.

Also mocking State fans, but that's to be expected.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/4vtm6v/uncchapel_hill_posts_response_to_ncaas_amended/

[Edited on August 2, 2016 at 4:32 PM. Reason : link]

8/2/2016 4:31:50 PM

Yeah this is the most infuriating thing about it all, it's not just that they are getting off but that they've somehow convinced themselves back to the moral high ground. They'll never acknowledge they got off on technicalities and machinations, they never did anything wrong in the first place.

8/2/2016 5:00:22 PM

Well if any of the millions they've spent on propaganda, er, I mean public relations, cost them from buying just one single blue-chip recruit that they would've otherwise gotten, I guess that's a small victory.

8/2/2016 5:07:47 PM

Some on Packpride are convinced that they're delaying another year of basketball and obviously football...and Fedora will take off for a bigger paycheck and Roy retire after another solid NCAA trip.

And that they're working behind the scenes now to have something in place when the NCAA does hit them.

8/2/2016 5:11:34 PM

Quote :

"Their accreditation is in jeopardy! "

SACS has already removed UNC from probation and put them back in good standing after UNC showed that they had gotten rid of the fake classes and imposed a limit on the number of independent studies classes that students could take (which apparently went into effect retroactively in 2000)

8/2/2016 5:13:50 PM

^^Yeah and the kraken is coming too soon.

8/2/2016 5:41:39 PM

Quote :

"Yeah this is the most infuriating thing about it all, it's not just that they are getting off but that they've somehow convinced themselves back to the moral high ground."

This.

UNC had a 2 decade system in place to keep athletes eligible involving systemic academic fraud that wove its way through the entire athletic department. In an effort to keep those banners, they've spent millions on legal & PR help. The NCAA took a super weak stance on this whole thing and now UNC is basically ended up just telling the NCAA to eat a dick. And their fans will buy all of that and twist it into some way that UNC is just standing up to the crooked NCAA.

8/2/2016 6:15:52 PM

Quote :

"They're pretty much convinced that they're untouchable now. "

They don't appear to be wrong.

8/2/2016 6:51:46 PM

So back to my point. Fire up the sham classes and let's let our boys focus on sports only

8/2/2016 10:27:31 PM

You gotta know that every AD in the country is watching this unfold with raised eyebrows. The NCAA has to know that too. I'm just not convinced the NCAA gives a damn if it blows the lid off their "student-athlete" meme. At the same time they need that to continue functioning and to fend off those lawsuits that were coming down the pipe.

To me the only answer is to curb stomp UNC athletics, but that doesn't seem to be happening

8/3/2016 6:59:43 AM

Quote :

"And their fans will buy all of that and twist it into some way that UNC is just standing up to the crooked NCAA."

Fans will buy anything. Remember one tact they previously pursued was that the focus on the African-American Studies Department was somehow racist.

8/3/2016 7:57:00 AM

The only way to punish them at this point is simply public reputation. For the rest of our lives we should take every chance we get to put down anyone who went to UNC and tell them we don't believe their degree is worth shit. If they try to play this well nothing happened we didn't get punished so clearly we didn't do anything wrong just remind them that OJ got off as well but that doesn't mean he still isn't a murderer. Also anytime you get a chance make sure to bring up the fact we have just as many titles as UNC does and when they argue it just say sorry ones you cheated for dont count I dont care what the NCAA says. That usually pisses them off pretty good.

8/3/2016 8:42:07 AM

UNC by TKO.

8/3/2016 8:54:09 AM

Quote :

". I'm just not convinced the NCAA gives a damn if it blows the lid off their "student-athlete" meme. "

Yeah, the NCAA is going to protect the idea of a student athlete at all costs. If they don't, they stand a very real chance of being stripped of their non-profit status.

8/3/2016 9:04:32 AM

they would also make it a lot easier for athletes to organize and demand getting paid, the NCAA will fight the erosion of the "student-athlete" to the bitter end

[Edited on August 3, 2016 at 11:15 AM. Reason : .]

8/3/2016 11:15:11 AM

Quote :

" For the rest of our lives we should take every chance we get to put down anyone who went to UNC and tell them we don't believe their degree is worth shit"

Need to start with people who don't have the degree yet. Start with kids, get the seed planted early

8/3/2016 11:35:25 AM

^^,^^^

Right! Which is why I expect them to dismiss UNC's arguments for LOIC and FTM. Otherwise athletes can claim they recieved nothing (a garbage education) in exchange for their services, they deserve real payment, etc. shit could get complicated quickly for the NCAA.

8/3/2016 12:11:52 PM

Art praises the response from UNC, of course.

http://chapelboro.com/sports/chanskys-notebook-unprecedented-response

Quote :

"UNC took dead aim right between the NC-double A’s. Carolina has said from the beginning of this academic-athletic mess that, on the other side of it, will be a model athletic program and university in how it deals with its intercollegiate teams. Carol Folt, Bubba Cunningham and their staffs have held true to that pledge, and when it came down to answering the amended Notice of Allegations, the university hit back and hit back hard with clarity in responding to a process the NCAA let linger far longer than necessary. Yes, UNC accepted three of the email extra-benefit allegations against former woman’s basketball tutor Jan Boxill but refuted 15 of them and said the infractions that did occur were Level II or Level III at best. And Cunningham closed his news conference with public praise and thanks to women’s basketball coach Sylvia Hatchell, which makes you believe she could survive this investigation as well. Most of UNC’s response can be summed up in three words: Stick to Sports. The NCAA’s own bylaws do not allow it to pass judgment on courses offered and how they are taught. That’s an academic accreditation issue for which the university served a one-year probation and has since been cleared. Sure, let’s accept the hollow charge that Nyang’oro and Crowder wouldn’t speak to the NCAA, but they also stonewalled us with no subpoena power either. And Carolina totally refutes the notion of lack of institutional control, based on such a small subset of mistakes over a long period of time that, again, is not in the jurisdiction of the NCAA. Certainly, negotiations will continue between the two parties, but I think the bull’s eye is squarely on the NCAA, which will be criticized harshly if it doles out a series of wrist slaps. However, UNC concluded clearly: Impose penalties outside your own bylaws on people and programs not mentioned or even referenced in the final NOA, and we are all going to court with the roles of plaintiff and defendant reversed. The NCAA has never been hit back like this in such a thorough and thoughtful manner, and for that UNC has set a new precedent."

The precedent in spewing horseshit has never been higher. Thanks Art!

[Edited on August 3, 2016 at 2:14 PM. Reason : Die in a fire.]

8/3/2016 2:12:41 PM

Quote :

"For the rest of our lives we should take every chance we get to put down anyone who went to UNC and tell them we don't believe their degree is worth shit"

Problem is they are so delusional and high and mighty they'll just ignore it and call you a hater or jealous.

Only way I can see to make them mad or frustrate them is to catch them in a paradox.

So you say the classes weren't really fake and the scheme wasn't set up to benefit athletics? Well I guess the school isn't very good then if it just hands out easy A's. Oh you say the school is good, it was just that one department? Huh well why was it only in that department that a bunch of athletes were in.

Force them into the catch-22 of admitting they're lofty academic reputation is a scam (it's a good state school, not ivy league) or admitting they cheated (they did). They'll still be delusional but at least it will frustrate and piss them off.

8/3/2016 2:46:11 PM

Quote :

"The only way to punish them at this point is simply public reputation. "

Another flagship university neckdeep in scandal was full of fans that did not care their storied head coach allowed one of his top assistants to be a pedophile for years. College sports fans are not exactly known for being worldly when it comes to their college sports.

8/3/2016 3:00:44 PM

Quote :

"So back to my point. Fire up the sham classes and let's let our boys focus on sports only"

You know if State pulled that then the NCAA would totally fuck us.

8/3/2016 7:24:43 PM

Life's unfair, sucks to suck etc

8/3/2016 7:27:32 PM

As I said way back in the beginning, one of two things comes from this. Either UNC gets the hammer dropped or this is the end of the NCAA. Appears its going to be the second one

8/4/2016 8:10:34 AM

UNC has spent over 8 million dollars on this thing.

Replaced President, Athletic Director, coaches, teachers, support staff, a bit of FB sanctions, and 5 years of being dragged around in the mud nationally.

I mean, I want them to burn to the ground for the culture they infuse in their graduates etc. And looking at it, I cant see the NCAA rolling over with this investigation. You cant have this scale of fraud and do nothing. There will be something out of this.

So overall, we have the moral high ground for years to come. I cant get to worked up about this right now. If nothing comes out of this the NCAA loses all its teeth and other Universities with enough cash to spend can use the same tactics. NCAA hopefully has the foresight and balls to put its foot down.

8/4/2016 9:28:06 AM

Problem ultimately is that NCAA has little to no monetary incentive to fight or come down hard on this or really anyone. So what, they prove themselves toothless. Does this expose them to any sort of financial loss?

Theoretically based upon lawsuits for compensation of athletes, but I think UNC's argument actually helps them. If they don't have a say in academics and are more just about organizing the schools and the competitions, then lawsuits stating SA's are getting cheated could be dropped and they could say take it up with the individual universities instead of the NCAA.

Keeping up the academic facade used to be a bigger part of the business model, that people prefer this to a professional minor league, but I think people are more savvy to what is going on and care less about amateurism so that doesn't hurt as much as it used to.

As long as the money keeps rolling in, looking dumb and weak really has no impact.

See NFL and Roger Goodell.

8/4/2016 11:14:34 AM