i'm not sure what your point is with that, but ok

6/28/2016 3:43:34 PM

Quote :

" owning a gun isn't an inalienable civil right"

it is a constitutional right protected in the bill of rights

so your argument that "well the no-fly list isn't that big" is shit logic and forgets all the democrats and liberals who fought the list to start with

6/28/2016 5:11:01 PM

Go ahead, use the list. I'm sure our security agencies and legislature would never try to restrict another amendment like they would the 2nd. Surely they'd never use secret lists with no objective requirements or due process to ignore the 4th amendment or the 5th or the 6th or the 8th.

I guess they wouldn't need to, right, the courts have neutered a lot of those already. The NRA is wrong headed on a lot of things, but they have done more to defend the 2nd than anybody, I only wish there were groups that suits the same for some of our other rights.

It's not a slippery slope if it's already happened.

[Edited on June 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM. Reason : Dtyhh]

6/28/2016 6:06:30 PM

the NRA doesn't give a fuck about anything other than gun sales

6/28/2016 6:58:39 PM

Quote :

"Neither is healthcare or food or shelter or a job. ( a civil right)"

it is if the left can force other people to pay for it

[Edited on June 28, 2016 at 11:40 PM. Reason : .]

6/28/2016 11:40:07 PM

Quote :

"it is a constitutional right protected in the bill of rights"

which the supreme court has already proven is not inalienable, as recently as last week

6/29/2016 9:58:48 AM

it's also not a boat

6/29/2016 10:10:27 AM

American household gun ownership drops to lowest in nearly 40 years - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/american-gun-ownership-is-now-at-a-30-year-low/?shr=t via http://news.google.com/

Won't be too many more years now gun owning households will be few enough that their rights will get trampled just like any other minority group.

6/29/2016 6:37:07 PM

I dunno, that poll doesn't feel right to me. The quantity of background checks performed and total gun sales are at record highs, yet the phone poll suggest gun ownership is at a record low? I suspect people's willingness to tell a stranger on the phone they have a gun in the house might be what is at record lows.

6/29/2016 9:46:18 PM

Quote :

"The quantity of background checks performed and total gun sales are at record highs, yet the phone poll suggest gun ownership is at a record low?"

It's no secret that many gun buyers and buying a fucking shitload of guns. I'd imagine they're responsible for those numbers you mention, and not people buying just one gun.

[Edited on June 29, 2016 at 10:16 PM. Reason : Also moron's logic is moronic.]

6/29/2016 10:14:50 PM

I do know multiple people who would lie in a survey and say they do not own any guns when in reality they have many. Not saying the article is wrong necessarily but it isn't the easiest thing to survey due to its nature. What we do know is a shit load of guns are being sold right now.

6/29/2016 10:20:17 PM

http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/29/concealed-carrier-prevents-mass-shooting-at-sc-nightclub/

Tragedy averted last night in Myrtle Beach because of a responsible gun owner....

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 11:00 AM. Reason : ...]

6/30/2016 10:59:36 AM

Quote :

"irresponsible gun owner stopped by responsible gun owner"

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 11:31 AM. Reason : VV lol i'm nominating that for dumbest strawman of the year. congrats on your success.]

6/30/2016 11:12:22 AM

If the hero had been drinking, his concealed carry license should be revoked, correct?

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 11:21 AM. Reason : Or worse, I'm not sure what the penalty is]

6/30/2016 11:19:35 AM

synapse thinks it would be better if the cops shot him 4 hours later after there are dozens more victims apparently

you think perp should be the only armed person there for 5-10 mins at least right?

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 11:33 AM. Reason : s]

6/30/2016 11:29:52 AM

^^ depends on the law. Some states it's zero alcohol and others it is you cannot be impaired or drunk or whatever wording it is. In that case he could have had A drink and still been ok but in general it is a terrible idea to carry while drinking so I'm all for a zero tolerance policy there

6/30/2016 11:51:49 AM

Apparently in SC you're allowed to have them in bars due to a 2014 law, but no alcohol allowed. I'd be surprised if you're allowed to carry and drink in any state.

6/30/2016 11:55:15 AM

Quote :

"§46.035, Texas Penal Code states that it is unlawful for an individual who is intoxicated to carry a handgun. It is important to note that the Penal Code defines “intoxicated” as not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance in the body; or having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more."

Can't carry in bars or anywhere that gets 51%+ revenue from alcohol though

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 12:37 PM. Reason : .]

6/30/2016 12:35:18 PM

Fucking Texas. That woulda been my first guess.

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 12:38 PM. Reason : Sounds like Louisiana can too ]

6/30/2016 12:36:39 PM

Name one mass shooter that wasn't drunk when they did it... you can't

6/30/2016 10:58:58 PM

Quote :

"Won't be too many more years now gun owning households will be few enough that their rights will get trampled just like any other minority group."

So maybe then I won't benefit from white privilege?

7/1/2016 8:08:16 PM

Shots fired.

7/8/2016 1:52:26 AM

if only the people who were targeted in the latest mass shooting had been armed and able to protect themselves.

couple this with the murder of a black man with a concealed carry permit and the NRA must be about ready to implode.

7/8/2016 8:55:05 AM

The CHL holder that was killed was likely murdered by a really fucking terrible cop and should be prosecuted as such and some terrible people attacked cops. Not sure why it's such a complicated situation for you.

7/8/2016 9:13:19 AM

it's not difficult.

an armed cadre of police officers were not enough to stop a mass shooting.

the "good guy with a gun" bullshit the NRA and gun nuts spout is just that - bullshit.

the only solution to stopping mass shootings is gun control, not gun proliferation.

[Edited on July 8, 2016 at 10:07 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2016 10:07:30 AM

I think things get conflated. These mass shootings likely wouldn't be stopped by having more armed civilians. ESPECIALLY as in this Dallas case.

But being armed absolutely gives you a better chance of defending yourself from one on one crimes such as muggings.

7/8/2016 10:27:13 AM

^^ a gun isn't a magical device nor is it a protective shield

And an armed cadre of police officers did stop the shooters but when you have a planned and coordinated attack it is impossible to prevent all deaths

7/8/2016 10:49:15 AM

It was tongue in cheek, people. He was intentionally being provocative to highlight the absurdity of the common pro-gun refrain by offering a real life example where the simplistic mantra clearly falls flat on its face.


But anyway....Are second amendment defenders going to justify this as an armed man protecting himself from state actors representing a tyrannical government? You know, since that's the other hollow rationale that gets trotted out in defense of gun rights?

I mean, disagree/shame/condemn all you want. But unlike the standard mass shootings that we've reluctantly grown accustomed to, this one actually seems to have political motivations. It's going to be much harder to "mental illness" our way out of this one. We can't just shrug this one off a loony going into a movie theatre, or an elementary school, or a mall or a gay bar. This person (or persons) targeted people in uniform.


So what say you, fellow patriots?

7/8/2016 11:20:42 AM

thank you for stating what I thought was obvious in my intent

as to your last point, there were obvious political motivations behind the abortion clinic mass shooting in colorado, but they managed to mental illness that one up anyway. will certainly happen here, too.

7/8/2016 11:42:30 AM

It was a coordinated attack on cops. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp

7/8/2016 11:57:07 AM

Quote :

"the only solution to stopping mass shootings is gun control, not gun proliferation."

What are you suggesting? Gun control as strict as, say, France? Do you not recall the mass shooting they had there not too long ago?

7/8/2016 12:33:21 PM

It depends on your definition of "mass shootings"...

7/8/2016 12:46:17 PM

Quote :

"it's not difficult. an armed cadre of police officers were not enough to stop a mass shooting."

but raising the price of semi auto rifles would?

some events cant be stopped with a pen, plus banning guns would just make a black market causing more problems.

7/8/2016 12:50:04 PM

even after JesusHChrist walked you through his point, you still can't follow it?

[Edited on July 8, 2016 at 12:51 PM. Reason : h]

7/8/2016 12:51:24 PM

Quote :

"It was a coordinated attack on cops. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp"

It was a coordinated attack on an elementary school. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on an abortion clinic. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on a newspaper publisher. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on a movie theater. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on a black church. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on a high school. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on a gay nightclub. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on a christmas party. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on a military recruiting center. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on a coastal community. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp
It was a coordinated attack on a soldier readiness processing center. Not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp

7/8/2016 12:55:13 PM

just because horrible events happen that doesnt make a bad policy that would maybe even make the problem worse a good one

7/8/2016 12:57:12 PM

Sure but you think cops should only leave their stations if 911 is called.

Not sure you have any credibility to call something a *bad policy*

7/8/2016 1:01:45 PM

Quote :

"What are you suggesting? Gun control as strict as, say, France? Do you not recall the mass shooting they had there not too long ago?"

France has a 0.21 per 100K homicide rate by firearm rate. The US's is 3.43. That's 16 times the rate in France. The reality is that, even with the tragedy in Paris, they won't come close to our firearm homicide rate. I did the math once before and France would need one of those attacks something like every 6 weeks to match the US homicide by firearm rate.

[Edited on July 8, 2016 at 1:05 PM. Reason : .]

7/8/2016 1:03:53 PM

i'll agree that gun control probably won't do a lot to combat mass shootings so long as gun advocates admit that we have a much larger problem with everyday boring gun violence that additional gun control might help

7/8/2016 1:06:19 PM

seconded

7/8/2016 1:08:08 PM

Quote :

"Sure but you think cops should only leave their stations if 911 is called. Not sure you have any credibility to call something a *bad policy*"

hah. i didnt know there was a background check before you could post on the interwebs.


and yes i do think we are being over policed and its causing more problems than its solving. cops should work to protect us, not pull us over for petty shit to give us a fine and a court date.

Quote :

" gun advocates admit that we have a much larger problem with everyday boring gun violence that additional gun control might help"

mexico has way more violence and gun control than us. gun control is not some magic bullet, pun intended


[Edited on July 8, 2016 at 1:17 PM. Reason : d]

7/8/2016 1:10:05 PM

Quote :

"as to your last point, there were obvious political motivations behind the abortion clinic mass shooting in colorado, but they managed to mental illness that one up anyway. will certainly happen here, too."

"recluse" - already shaping up to prove me right.

7/8/2016 1:11:08 PM

Quote :

"i'll agree that gun control probably won't do a lot to combat mass shootings so long as gun advocates admit that we have a much larger problem with everyday boring gun violence that additional gun control might help"

Sure, and as we have discussed here plenty of times, the legislation that keeps being brought up like an AWB is not that additional gun control that would help. We've beaten this to death and most of the more reasonable posters have agreed on this.

7/8/2016 1:18:12 PM

Quote :

" mexico was way more violence and gun control than us. gun control is not some magic bullet, pun intended "

maybe stew on that one for awhile and see if you can figure out the problem with it

7/8/2016 1:18:19 PM

Quote :

"“recluse" - already shaping up to prove me right."

You're probably right that they'll try.

It's just...man...... if a coordinated attack on armed state agents after multiple incidents of institutional abuse with impunity happened in, let's say Russia, how would the US media frame that act?

7/8/2016 2:02:40 PM

I mean... Has the person been identified yet?

Maybe the media is still waiting on skin pigment verification before turning the dial from "mentally ill" to "terrorist"

7/8/2016 2:06:45 PM

if my point wasnt clear. mexico has stricter gun control than usa

found this on wiki about honduras"

Quote :

"In response to the high level of crime and violence experienced in Honduras, in 2003, the government passed a law banning several types of military-issue "assault" rifles from private possession. Legislative Power Decree 101-2003 gave a 90-day grace period to surrender all weapons prohibited under Article 8, along with weapons described in the new law, without fear of criminal or civil prosecution and provided an incentive of 1,000 lempiras (US$52.92) per weapon surrendered. This law pertains to weapons that found their way onto the black market from military channels; by definition, "assault" rifles are illegal in Honduras if they are capable of fully automatic fire or they fall under the make and model or caliber restricted under Article 2 of Decree 101-2003 which states: ...AK-47 rifle in all its versions. FN FAL and [Argentine] FAP 7.62mm, UZI sub machine gun, M-16 in all its versions, M60 machine gun. Sniper rifle 5.56mm in all its versions. IMI Galil rifle, Heckler & Koch G3 rifle, Beretta 5.56mm in all its versions. M21 for sharpshooters, homemade firearms, and other weapons of war the Secretary of State in the Office of Security and National Defense may consider as such.[22] Possession of any weapon and ammunition as described above carries a sentence of eight to 10 years in prison and a fine of 5,000 to 10,000 lempiras (US$264.62-$529.24)."

[Edited on July 8, 2016 at 2:26 PM. Reason : f]

7/8/2016 2:15:33 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Fragile_States_Index
Mexico 70.4
United States 34.0

7/8/2016 2:54:11 PM

beatsunc gets tunnel vision sometimes all the time.

[Edited on July 8, 2016 at 3:10 PM. Reason : it's the fuel for his false equivalency gigafactory]

7/8/2016 3:03:32 PM

He bolded the Honduras part

Honduras is ranked higher on the Fragile States Index than Benin, the country that one dude was doing his peace corps in

7/8/2016 3:34:00 PM