I think everyone agrees that The Soap Box has seriously deteriorated lately. i am *not* busting on theDuke866's moderation, nor do I want to replace him. I think his laissez-faire policy is in general the right way to go. But I think that perhaps his real-world duties as a USMC aviator doesnt allow him to pay close enough attention to some of the issues.

So I'll offer a bit of my time to "assist" him.

here's the problem: a certain small number of users have effectively hijacked The Soap Box into their personal forum to work out their personal issues, and basically ruined it for most everyone else. TSB is essentially dying.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about, although there are plenty more just like it:

Quote :

" gunzz : since a certain set of users have decided to ruin TSB ... i just dont even read or search that forum anymore ambrosia1231 : He [gunnz] is not alone in avoiding the soapbox --/message_topic.aspx?topic=503167 "

what's fucked up, is OmarBadu basically had to lock that Lounge thread due to these Soap Box issues spilling over into it

My moderation approach would not be drastically different than Duke's. For instance,

-- I won't delete posts or lock threads, except for duplicates and obvious flamebait. if it doesnt belong in TSB, the worst I'd do is just move it to the appropriate place.

-- I would never use mod power to supress anyones opinion who i disagreed with, or suspend anyone for any reason other than flagrant and repeated rule-breaking.

...

but here's what I would do .... I'd make and enforce one new TSB-specific rule:

any time a user or users hijacks a thread for their own personal issues, it would be INSTANT and INCREMENTALLY-INCREASING SUSPENSIONS for each and every person involved.

first offense = 1 day in the box
second offense = 2 days
third = 3 days
fourth = 4 days.

and so on, and so forth.

you all know what i mean by "hijacking threads for personal issues". this does not mean the occasional insult/counter-insult

it means the incessant back and forth bullshit where one or more people just cant shut the fuck up, and they just cant let it go, always trying to get the last word. i dont care who it is, or whether i personally agree or disagree with them. throw em all in the box for a day. they do it again? throw em back in for two.

it also means people spamming pet conspiracy theories with the intent to flame, as evidenced by their consistent refusal to debate, but just cut-and-paste over and over (admittedly, this hasnt happened since Salisbot's suspension)

im too old to play bullshit games. I dont want to be mod for some kind of stupid status, or personal power trip. I just want TSB to be worthwhile again.

i used to get a lot of interesting politically-oriented news items and the discussion would often bring new perspectives. My opinion has even been changed on a few occasions.

now its just about a dozen people *trying* to discuss a few topics, around a few jackasses shitting all over every thread they touch. everyone else on TWW has given up even trying. for fuck's sake, Chit Chat now often has more interesting political debates.

This is my one and only attempt to mod. If it gets shot down, then fine. you wont see me here doing dnl or ncemt shenanigans because i dont have time or interest. I just hate to see TSB die.





[Edited on November 23, 2007 at 9:14 PM. Reason : ]

11/23/2007 9:06:47 PM

as long as you are fair about the bitchfest issues, then I'm jake with it. I'm getting sick of the TreeTwista / Chance bullshit. I'm mainly just sick of everyone pissing on TT, trying to troll him into an argument.

11/23/2007 9:27:44 PM

oh, im serious, and I'd be fair about it.

i'll have no favorites, and I'll have no scapegoats either. I certainly will not use it as an excuse to just suspend Twista.

To be honest, I've always thought Chance was equal to blame in most of their spats, and in some instances, he was the instigator rather than Twista.

and its not just the two of them. if someone else was trying to troll Twisa unprovoked, I'd have no problems starting them on the incremental plan.

i really think that the shit would stop before anyone's suspension reached 7 days. but i'd work them on up to 100 if need be.





[Edited on November 23, 2007 at 9:45 PM. Reason : ]

11/23/2007 9:35:44 PM

this is not that great of an idea imo...but i'm sure there could be worse mods

11/23/2007 10:16:44 PM

thanks. and since you're one of the people on the short list, i'll count that as an endorsement.






[Edited on November 23, 2007 at 10:51 PM. Reason : nothing personal ]

11/23/2007 10:40:09 PM

i say do it, its not like jennifer spends lots of time moderating it

11/23/2007 10:44:11 PM

Quote :

"you wont see me here doing dnl or ncemt shenanigans"

lol i just saw this....wtf does that mean?

11/23/2007 10:48:27 PM

Quote :

"i say do it, its not like jennifer spends lots of time moderating it"

who?

OH... JAllen1127 the Soap Box "moderator" who hasnt posted in TSB even once since at least June of 2005.

11/23/2007 10:59:09 PM

you get my vote

11/23/2007 10:59:51 PM

I fully endorse joe here. I think he'll do what he says, and what he says is pretty necessary. At this point I tend to avoid Soap Box, and that's where I started and spent the overwhelming majority of my four years on this site.

11/23/2007 11:42:34 PM

it would be more intersting if the racist nazi guy was back. all these serious discussions about real topics that reflect important issues really get old

i miss crazy people. release salisbury so we can laff

[Edited on November 23, 2007 at 11:47 PM. Reason : m]

11/23/2007 11:46:26 PM

i'm down

dnl is downy

11/23/2007 11:48:42 PM

jallen is crazyjs wife, thats how she got the part!

so since he's gone, i assume she is too, thats what i meant by that

11/23/2007 11:48:55 PM

just suspend chance from TSB and we won't need moderation.

11/23/2007 11:50:41 PM

Well Joe and I don't agree on much, but I think he'd be fair. Would be nice to have more interesting debate and less personal attacks.
Sometimes it's hard to stay with a thread while the verbal fists are flying.

11/24/2007 12:58:57 AM

I don't care if you are fair or not, just as long as it's an excuse to suspend twista, chance, and hooksaw

11/24/2007 3:35:33 AM

sure why not

11/24/2007 8:27:31 AM

I like it. Joe is enough of a moderate and has enough good sense to spot the bullshit.

TheDuke certainly does a great job, but I agree that the high stress job of moderating idiots might not sparkle with the outside responsibilities that he has.

11/24/2007 4:14:56 PM

AYE

11/24/2007 4:19:53 PM

^^^^ You first, dickhead. What have I ever done that would be considered a suspendable offense?

11/24/2007 4:52:58 PM

before this gets derailed onto another hooksaw/anti-hooksaw rant i just want to say this:

hooksaw and I have had our fair share of disagreements. in the past couple years we may have contributed to the ruining of a thread or two. But i think the difference is that we both generally know when to let it go.

as much as I may roll my eyes at some of his threads, I dont think he's ever done anything worthy of suspending on his own. If i would retroactively apply my "formula" to him, the only time he'd ever merit an incremental suspension would be when someone else needs to go with him. Like perhaps one of the several bitchslapfests with Erios or moron. And I'd really be surprised if any of them - including hooksaw - ever went past the first round of incremental suspensions.

the most i could ever see me doing to hooksaw is perhaps moving one or two of his threads to Chit Chat. the "Hey Chavez Defenders (Part 2)" thread is one that comes to mind. Generally speaking, he doesn't fuck up other peoples threads, and if you don't like his, then stay out of them.

i really think my plan would work and TSB would be straightend out to a mostly civil place, with a tolerable amount of personal attacks. and I know I'd apply it fairly and without prejudice to either side.







[Edited on November 24, 2007 at 5:54 PM. Reason : ]

11/24/2007 5:48:11 PM

joe_schmoe+1 for mod. don't know ya but I also don't go to the soap box so whatever.

11/24/2007 6:52:30 PM

ok it is obvious joe schmoe cares enough....maybe he should be made mod...

11/24/2007 6:57:35 PM

Quote :

"I fully endorse joe here. I think he'll do what he says, and what he says is pretty necessary."

There are definitely times when I'm hard up for reading material, and stuck at a computer.

TSB could be more than a starting point for finding links and articles (which is primarily how I use it, when I do venture in there)

11/24/2007 8:00:38 PM

Quote :

" it also means people spamming pet conspiracy theories with the intent to flame, as evidenced by their consistent refusal to debate, but just cut-and-paste over and over (admittedly, this hasnt happened since Salisbot's suspension)"

that's all that really needed to happen to clean up soapbox and its sad that it took thetard866 so long to finally get a clue

anyway, just ban any racist conspiracy type fuckers and everything will be cool

p.s. hooksaw needs the boot.

[Edited on November 24, 2007 at 9:22 PM. Reason : s]

11/24/2007 9:22:26 PM

Quote :

"TSB could be more than a starting point for finding links and articles (which is primarily how I use it, when I do venture in there) "

hell, its not even really good for that anymore.

no one has enough energy to post good stuff now, because they know it'll just get beat down by the same few jackasses.

Quote :

"anyway, just ban any racist conspiracy type fuckers and everything will be cool"

its defintely more than just that.

Quote :

"hooksaw needs the boot."

i dont think so. hooksaw has his problems, and some of his threads are real forehead-slappers, but he generally doesnt shit in other peoples threads, and most of the time he only fights when provoked. he'd get the incremental suspensions only as much as anyone else who was involved in the stupidity.







TSB used to have a lot of relevant topics, a lot of which was from alternative sources. now it just pretty much sucks.

yes, it is somewhat important to me, and i think i know how to fix it.

[Edited on November 25, 2007 at 12:36 AM. Reason : ]

11/25/2007 12:30:33 AM

I support this.

11/25/2007 2:04:58 AM

Quote :

"I think everyone agrees that The Soap Box has seriously deteriorated lately. i am *not* busting on theDuke866's moderation, nor do I want to replace him. I think his laissez-faire policy is in general the right way to go. But I think that perhaps his real-world duties as a USMC aviator doesnt allow him to pay close enough attention to some of the issues."

I've been saying this for over half a year. All it got me was a grudge from yet another moderator.

Quote :

"TSB is essentially dying. "

Been dead for over a year. From time to time, the users that actually have something useful to post try and breath life into it. But ultimately it gets squashed like a massive boot on a bug from certain other users.

And about this

Quote :

"gunzz : since a certain set of users have decided to ruin TSB ... i just dont even read or search that forum anymore"

He has 21 posts in 11 months. Let's look at an assortment:

Quote :

"didnt you know that TWW != democracy no way im reading all of that i dont know...did you see what he was posting in the Myrtle Beach #1 thread in the lounge i really wish it had been Cheney who got shot in that hunting accident instead of being the shooter Three posts in an "undefined" thread (the javascript hack) YOU CANT HANDLE THE TOOTH (in a TSB parody thread) the US Armed Forces have developed this new interactive training module for hand to hand combat using the Wii (in a thread about where can I find a new Wii in TSB) /THREAD] i got a great laugh reading this just b/c its on espn doesnt mean it should be in here (on a thread moved into TSB from Sports Talk) just look at Canada "

There were about 4-6 other comments. No real discussion, just a statement of his opinion (nothing wrong with that)
and

Quote :

"ambrosia1231 : He [gunnz] is not alone in avoiding the soapbox"

Here last legit post was over a year ago (at least it was more thoughtful and had more to offer than any gunzz post in TSB, ever). Her only post in 2007, this one about Ron Paul

Quote :

"Sounds like a porn name"

Look, we all know TSB is pretty shitty these days, but don't be disingenuous here shmoe, it isn't like these are Smoker4s or GrumpyGOPs that have been run out of TSB. You'd think if they had any kind of real connection or investment in TSB, even as shitty as it has been they'd have at least something, anything to add in the course of a year that is interesting to them.

Quote :

"what's fucked up, is OmarBadu basically had to lock that Lounge thread due to these Soap Box issues spilling over into it"

No, Omar and gunzz are the two whiniest people on this site when it comes to search and making duplicate threads. That thread was DOA. There would have been no vagina blood in the thread if gunzz would shut his whiny mouth when he gets legitimately called out rather than offering up some defensive bitch post trying to project his failure onto someone else.

Quote :

"any time a user or users hijacks a thread for their own personal issues, it would be INSTANT and INCREMENTALLY-INCREASING SUSPENSIONS for each and every person involved."

I'm confused. If you're spending all day on tdub, presumably doing this:

Quote :

"I won't delete posts or lock threads, except for duplicates and obvious flamebait."

Then the thread won't get hijacked.

Quote :

"you all know what i mean by "hijacking threads for personal issues". this does not mean the occasional insult/counter-insult"

Why not? Because you know you can't resist insulting hooksaw or twista or whoever else.

If you're going to go through the trouble to concoct this elaborate request for mod power, why are you leaving yourself a lame out?

Quote :

"it means the incessant back and forth bullshit where one or more people just cant shut the fuck up, and they just cant let it go, always trying to get the last word. i dont care who it is, or whether i personally agree or disagree with them. throw em all in the box for a day. they do it again? throw em back in for two."

Why do we need a new mod to do this? Why can't duke do it? In about 3 threads last week, after twista gave up his argument and insulted me, I posted a link to the Smackdown thread and said if you don't have anything else to add, take it here. He followed with yet another insult. WHY WON'T DUKE SUSPEND HIM? Simply because he has a vendetta against me. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Sad.

Having said that, I do think joe would do a MUCH MUCH better job than duke.

Just look at Dukes post history in the past month. He spent more time posting in The Garage than he does TSB.

11/25/2007 6:00:54 PM

^you care WAY too much about this site. Then again, the amount of money you've spent here is evidence of that.



[Edited on November 25, 2007 at 6:28 PM. Reason : a]

11/25/2007 6:28:01 PM

Look at you, you're trolling yet another thread where adults are trying to have a reasonable conversation. Please mature 10 years and try again.

11/25/2007 6:33:01 PM

Some of you seem to have forgotten pryderi, Josh8315, JerryGarcia, scatterbrain, THABIGL, BEU, etc. They were every bit as bad (and often worse) than anyone around TSB nowadays.

the problem isn't so much that we have a few rogue dumbasses shitting stupidity all over the place. That's always been there.

The problem is that we don't have Gamecat, Smoker4, TGD, GrumpyGOP, Socks``, packguy381, and the like posting on any regular basis (if at all) anymore. Lots of the good ol' posters don't use TWW anymore at all.


hell, i'd even like to have DirtyGreek, MathFreak, Megaloman84, and maybe even Kris back. they're all crazier than shit (or just a huge dickhead, in the case of mathfreak), but at least they're smart.

and RedGuard, marko, and Maverick need to step up their posting efforts.

Quote :

"Just look at Dukes post history in the past month. He spent more time posting in The Garage than he does TSB. "

Mostly for the same reasons as lots of other people--there just aren't many smart people posting in there anymore...I feel more like a teacher imparting my knowledge on people who are damned and determined and simply too dense to "get it", rather than someone having smart debate and discussion. The Garage has suffered much of the same plight--it's been dumbed down a LOT over roughly the same timeframe, but there are a few people in there who are still worthwhile to bounce ideas off of.


________________________________________________

My problem with joe_schmoe's plan is that it will be difficult to enforce consistently and fairly across the board...it will require an AWFUL lot of hair-splitting judgement calls and referree-ing, and you will need a secretary to keep track of how long so-and-so is getting suspended for this time, and to remember to let him out, etc.




oh, and part of why i haven't been around as much lately is that my computer is kind of temperamental, and i haven't bought another one yet because baby's mama has all of my money.

[Edited on November 25, 2007 at 7:31 PM. Reason : and chance, you're not the only guilty one, but you have no room to complain about TSB. Ever.]

[Edited on November 25, 2007 at 7:32 PM. Reason : asdf]

11/25/2007 7:29:23 PM

god damn i miss gamecat in TSB

11/25/2007 7:38:46 PM

I've been pretty burned out on TSB since a couple of years ago. It's hard to have the same discussion every time somebody reads a new article about the same topic and feels the need to start a new thread.

11/25/2007 7:39:41 PM

yeah, there's a limit as to how much and from what angles you can beat up a lot of those issues

but there is still plenty of new stuff to talk about...that's not really the limiting factor, here.

11/25/2007 7:41:57 PM

Quote :

"My problem with joe_schmoe's plan is that it will be difficult to enforce consistently and fairly across the board..."

not really. maybe i'm overly optimistic but i think my plan is simple. and ill enforce it with a blind eye towards how the culprits lie on the political spectrum

Quote :

"it will require an AWFUL lot of hair-splitting judgement calls and referree-ing"

again, not really. its a "three strikes youre out" sort of thing. lets use Twista and Chance as an example: given any "Thread X" thats cruising along for half a page or two... then our two favorite guys start a pissing contest.

one insults, the other counter-insults. so far okay. then the first one counters the counter insult, and the second one can't leave it alone, so he replies again. Now they are both on "strike two". If either one of them continues it into a third round --- BANG ... they're out. and most likely, BOTH of them will be out by the time i catch up to it.

There are no warnings . There will be no realtime monitoring. just anytime i find a thread where one or more people have started shitting in it, any and every person involved having three (3) or more off-topic personal issues posted gets thrown in the box.

Just like that. No arguing, no appeals. first instance is (1) day. second instance (2) days. so on and so forth. I suppose if they have other mods who are buddies, they can get sprung early, but thats not my problem.

Quote :

"and you will need a secretary to keep track of how long so-and-so is getting suspended for this time, and to remember to let him out, etc."

i think not. i can write a simple Perl script that will be executed each time i get on my computer via a cron tab. It will keep a list of anyone who's ever been suspended, and what their standing is. I'll also post the name/time/cause in the "Smackdown" thread or something similar.

...

yeah, ive thought about this too much.

but i think the execution will be pretty straightforward and easy to handle.






[Edited on November 25, 2007 at 8:16 PM. Reason : ]

11/25/2007 8:12:09 PM

I would not be opposed to the enlightened rule of joe_schmoe.

[Edited on November 25, 2007 at 9:17 PM. Reason : ]

11/25/2007 9:16:41 PM

Quote :

"Look at you, you're trolling yet another thread where adults are trying to have a reasonable conversation. Please mature 10 years and try again."

you are the source of the problem. Your childish retorts and trolling needs to mature 10 years.

11/25/2007 9:17:01 PM

Quote :

"Your childish retorts and trolling "

You ran your mouth about me once and I didn't bite because you're noise in the ether.
Failing that, still, in the midst of all this thread of reasoned discussion, you then had this off topic shit to say when i didn't mention your name once

Quote :

"^you care WAY too much about this site. Then again, the amount of money you've spent here is evidence of that. "

And here you are again, for a third time in a thread doing the IRL equivalent of running your bitch mouth, and not even having the creativity to do anything else than to take my comments and try to return them to me.


I'll say it one last time. Just get the fuck out where you don't belong. The children are playing here

http://www.thewolfweb.com/user_login.aspx

11/25/2007 9:27:55 PM

I like the way TheDuke handles the soapbox...thats all i have to say about it

11/25/2007 9:36:58 PM

I've always thought Duke has done a pretty good job, especially considering some of the assholes he has to deal with. But he's also a very busy man IRL, and I think he needs some assistance with the day-to-day.

consider also the fact that each forum is supposed to have 2 moderators, and the "other" moderator hasnt even posted here in 2 1/2 years.

finally, i wouldnt be doing this except that i think (1) something is broken -- (2) i have an idea to fix it -- and (3) i believe my idea, if executed properly, will work in a fairly short time.

it is an idea that I think Duke is loathe to do if only because it involves a certain level of micromanagement that goes against his personal nature. But I think I can do it right because I've thought it out a good bit, and I can easily automate a large amount of the record keeping. Most of the judgment calls required will be pretty straightforward, and if theres any ambiguity, I like to think that people will trust (or learn to trust) me to be impartial.

The last thing i want to do is come in and be heavy handed. so my "incremental suspension" plan will be largely impersonal and by-the-numbers. In all other respects I would follow theDuke866's lead in keeping this a free and open place with little to no authoritarian-style censorship.

11/25/2007 9:51:38 PM

Quote :

"consider also the fact that each forum is supposed to have 2 moderators"

i'm unaware of this rule - is that stated somewhere?

11/25/2007 10:10:23 PM

i thought they was originally, by design or by precedent.

maybe not... but it does seem that most forums have 2 mods listed, with the exception of Feedback and StudyHall --- and gunnz and marko were just added to those as an emergency measure what with that recent Norton Spam Virus.

11/25/2007 10:14:36 PM

yay, my name was mentioned

11/25/2007 10:15:28 PM

A lot of you are pining for the way things used to be. Congratulations--you're officially [old].

11/26/2007 1:24:45 AM

haha

11/26/2007 2:34:57 AM

Quote :

"I like the way TheDuke handles the soapbox...thats all i have to say about it "

11/26/2007 3:01:39 AM

the last thing TSB needs is more moderation.


it is fine the way it is.

11/26/2007 5:56:40 AM

Quote :

"the last thing TSB needs is more moderation. it is fine the way it is. "

[/hooksaw's guide to debating]

TSB needs a temporary iron fist to come down and set things straight and then come down again from time to time when things start to get out of control, because they will. right now things suck so bad there because a minority of posters have no real debate skills but live under the false pretenses. they get frustrated when people prove them wrong at every corner and then just troll everyone while throwing out names and frustrating the people that come there for real discussions.

11/26/2007 7:18:53 AM

^ Keep my name out of your metaphorical mouth.

Quote :

". . .before this gets derailed onto another hooksaw/anti-hooksaw rant. . . . "

Quote :

"Generally speaking, he doesn't fuck up other peoples threads, and if you don't like his, then stay out of them."

joe_schmoe

11/26/2007 12:21:28 PM

^ That's just his campaign line.

[Edited on November 27, 2007 at 12:00 AM. Reason : to seem impartial ]

11/27/2007 12:00:38 AM