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 Message Boards » » Perpetual US Men's National Soccer Team Thread Page 1 ... 131 132 133 134 [135] 136, Prev Next  
tulsigabbard
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overpaid. they should turn their checks over to uswnt effective immediately.

10/10/2017 10:30:41 PM

Flyin Ryan
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^^^ Easier said than done (La Canfora's Twitter). For example:

-MLS is never going to have relegation. Anyone that attempts to argue this is a fucking dumbass. I don't care about quality of competition, but realistic chance of it actually happening.
-There will always be college soccer (how is the U.S. Soccer Federation going to force N.C. State to dissolve its team?) and as long as they offer scholarships, it will be a potential destination for if not the player the player's parents.
-And do they plan on subsidizing every single travel soccer team in the country?

[Edited on October 10, 2017 at 10:32 PM. Reason : /]

10/10/2017 10:31:04 PM

tulsigabbard
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follow the american sports and require 2 years of college or europe before you can play in the mls.

you have to believe the nfl/nba are doing it right.

10/10/2017 10:35:27 PM

Big4Country
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On to Tokyo we go! Now we need to focus on getting to the Olympics, so some of our players can get some extra games in even if it isn't our A squad.

10/10/2017 10:35:55 PM

wahoowa
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I don't expect us to ever implement the training programs of many other countries who select youngsters as early as 7-8 and keep them in a training program where they eat, sleep, and breathe soccer until they are deemed worthy of a national team spot or kicked out for lack of progress. That's just not going to be popular here in the US.

But there should absolutely be changes made to remove the cost barriers of competitive soccer prior to college and more involvement by the soccer federation at the youth level. There is too little focus on future path of these youngsters and no real development process to create a pipeline of talent. Development leagues for various age groups (similar to AAU basketball), a focus on getting players into as much international competition as possible to ensure visibility to international clubs, and changes to MLS to improve quality of play.

If I knew how to do all of this then hire me as the replacement for Gulati but I think these are steps that need to be taken ASAP so we aren't stuck in a lost generation of underachieving players.


Good article by a former USMNT Player on the developmental failures:
http://americansoccernow.com/articles/the-missing-years-u-s-soccer-s-development-gap

[Edited on October 11, 2017 at 12:06 AM. Reason : a]

10/10/2017 11:49:31 PM

aimorris
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Quote :
"Klinsmann was a monorail salesman, always was. He convinced some people of his spiel though, chief among them Gulati. Then when Klinsmann got here he attempted to cover up all his talk and how he wasn't doing any better than Papa Bradley by bringing in guys developed by the German FA because the Germans are better at soccer than we are (or almost anyone else for that matter). Got fired too late"


Too late? Bruce had EIGHT games to get 13 points with two of the hardest games out of the way. Klinsmann had nothing to do with losing 2-1 to the worst team in Concacaf who had nothing to play for, as much as you hate him. And Klinsmann didn't have the luxury of an in-form maturing superstar in the making to take over games for him like Bruce did.

I sure wish we had some of those evil Germans in this one. I know for a fact Jermaine Jones wouldn't have rolled over like a bitch like our so called team leaders did.

Anybody still blaming Klinsmann for this embarrassment is a hack, period.

[Edited on October 11, 2017 at 12:16 AM. Reason : .]

10/11/2017 12:15:26 AM

tulsigabbard
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they all share the blame.

10/11/2017 12:27:02 AM

JesusHChrist
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So how does Gulati survive this?

He fires his coach in the middle of the cycle for not getting the job done, and then replaces him with a former coach who goes on to not get the job done.

If he had let Klinsmann finish the cycle and lose, then all of the blame, fairly or unfairly, could have been cast on Klinsy. To bring on Arena and then STILL FAIL TO QUALIFY completely invalidates the reason for his dismissal. Arena failed to due the one thing he was brought on to do.

And if you want to play the angle that Arena was not given enough time (I think he was), then that ALSO makes Gulati look bad, as it means he waited to long to act and put his chosen replacement in an impossible situation.

And if you are the type of person who thinks that managers should not be allowed to coach two consecutive cycles regardless of performance (I tend to fall in this category), then Gulati REALLY fucked up because he failed to stand firm and then split a cycle between two managers for no apparent reason.


Obviously there are deeper structural issues facing the USSF/MLS/USMNT, from the lack of relegation/promotion in our premiere leagues, are irregular match calendars, MLS/USMNT style/identity issues and the academy infrastructure shortcomings and pay-for-play system. All of those issues need to be addressed.

But I really don't see how Gulati should survive this. And goddamit, I really wanted to go to Russia and buy a soviet Ushanka to wear during a US game.

10/11/2017 2:25:49 AM

vinylbandit
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JK has some blame. Bruce has some blame. But even a team without a manager should be able to pull 13/30 points from a group that includes Panama, Honduras, and T&T.

10/11/2017 2:29:55 AM

Flyin Ryan
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^^ Doubt he runs for reelection. USSF presidential election is next February, and before last night he already had 3 challengers. Only one you would've heard of is Eric Wynalda.

Quote :
"
But there should absolutely be changes made to remove the cost barriers of competitive soccer prior to college"


Great. How are you going to do it? Still have field rentals, refs to pay for, and actually paying to go to wherever you play. It's not like soccer is any different from travel softball for example since I have 2 cousins big on that. I play club rugby and it's $90 dues fall and spring to keep our club going.

What sports do they travel and its free? The only reason AAU summer basketball is a thing is because you have prospective agents and shoe companies and the like paying for everything because it could be a financial goldmine if one of those awesome players in the future chooses to employ them.

10/11/2017 6:13:08 AM

laxman490
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Anyone think Mexico and Costa Rica let Panama/Honduras win? Sure we should have just won ourselves, but you think they actually tried to come back once they started losing - especially late in the game? Both teams wouldn't want the US in the field.

Not making excuses, we should have more than 13 points, but just something to think about.

10/11/2017 6:49:09 AM

Sweden
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A fitting result for an absolute garbage heap of a team. There's no excuse for beating PAN/HON/TRI 12-0 at home and then getting 2 points from 9 on away games against that same bunch.

^ No doubt that happened IMO. We should have done the same thing in Panama in 4 years ago.

10/11/2017 7:22:47 AM

Flyin Ryan
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^^ the U.S. controlled its own destiny, a DRAW in Trinidad would've seen them through.

To bring things back a bit, I hate the concept of youth travel sports altogether. It's incredibly elitist and I think is more for the coach and parents than the kids.

Second, the Arena hire never struck me as right. Love him or hate him, but Bruce Arena's run from 1999 to 2006 is more successful than any manager the U.S. has had before or after. I ran the numbers once, I don't believe he once lost to a Caribbean national team in that first run. That said, it smelled of desperation and a lack of other options that you get the guy tbat was "yesterday's news".

[Edited on October 11, 2017 at 7:37 AM. Reason : .]

10/11/2017 7:28:47 AM

Sweden
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The pervasive mentality throughout the entire program that we should be happy with ANY result away from home in qualifying is baffling. We should be fucking thumping teams like Honduras and T&T regardless of where the game is played.

10/11/2017 7:40:29 AM

Big4Country
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Well the good news is our U-17 national team is top of their group at the World Cup. Maybe one of them will be awesome in 2 years and can help out.

10/11/2017 8:35:49 AM

wahoowa
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Quote :
"Great. How are you going to do it? Still have field rentals, refs to pay for, and actually paying to go to wherever you play. It's not like soccer is any different from travel softball for example since I have 2 cousins big on that. I play club rugby and it's $90 dues fall and spring to keep our club going. "


How about US Soccer, with its 100s of millions earned from Copa America last summer, subsidize a lot of these costs for the players that are talented? Hell, with the money they have they could create developmental leagues across age groups and cover probably 90% of the cost.

I dont think Klinsmann was the problem. Everything he attempted to change were actual problems of US Soccer. MLS is garbage, we have no development process, and our players are old and unchallenged. I can absolutely see why he was tinkering with lineups to try and get more aggression and creativity as well. This roster that Arena called up was old, tired, resting on their laurels, and passive. They have always had the same mentality - let's get a draw when away from home. It showed last night.

[Edited on October 11, 2017 at 8:59 AM. Reason : a]

10/11/2017 8:56:23 AM

Doss2k
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I know for me, coaching youth soccer, I have had two or three kids that were light years ahead of the other kids. I have sent them to look into travel teams because rec soccer just isnt going to test them or help them get better and they had great potential. It never happened because the families didn't have the financial means so all they could afford was rec soccer.

I am sure there are thousands of kids out there in the same boat but as others have said I have no idea how to address those issues. The shear size of our country gives us a larger pool to choose from but the logistics involved become a big problem I imagine.

10/11/2017 8:56:28 AM

Flyin Ryan
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This is an awesome rant.

http://www.espnfc.com/world-cup-qualifying-concacaf/64/video/3226307/watch-twellman-sounds-off-after-us-exit

ESPN has the knives out for Gulati based on what they've published since the loss. I imagine he's not running for reelection.

10/11/2017 9:11:12 AM

Flyin Ryan
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Quote :
"How about US Soccer, with its 100s of millions earned from Copa America last summer, subsidize a lot of these costs for the players that are talented? "


Say a place the size of Wake County has 3 area-based teams multiplied by 4 age-grade levels and 20 players a side. That's 240 kids. Multiply by 300 due to the population of the country and that's 72,000 kids. Multiply by $500 to cover all costs (and people that fly to Florida or wherever for tournaments, their costs are higher than that) that's $36 million. And that's just boys. You know girls will want the same setup too, so that's $72 million. Now we need to figure out all spending that gets cut to pay for all this.

Think of all the money football has, which puts U.S. soccer to shame, and there's no one that fields a team outside of schools. The best you get is rec-league/Pop Warner.

Here's a link to the 2017 fiscal year budget and AGM minutes. Read it in your free time. http://resources.ussoccer.com/images/161027-AGM-PDF-FINAL.pdf

[Edited on October 11, 2017 at 9:28 AM. Reason : .]

10/11/2017 9:22:14 AM

Doss2k
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Well one easy way is to not do it for everyone just those who lack the means. So you could maybe half that figure because half the kids on those teams now would still be good enough and the other half would be replaced because they are only there because their parents can afford it otherwise they just wouldn't be good enough.

10/11/2017 9:27:19 AM

wahoowa
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To clarify my post, I didnt say every player. I suggested that we subsidize the players that show talent (again, similar to the AAU method in basketball). Maybe the top two or three players from every team will get their costs covered (independent of family income) to help them develop more quickly. Those top few players could then be brought together a few times a year to compete against each other similar to the cup system we have now.

Got a "file not found" on your link.


[Edited on October 11, 2017 at 9:37 AM. Reason : a]

10/11/2017 9:34:37 AM

scotieb24
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So Panama's first goal didn't even go in and it was obvious. WTF Sounds like there is no recourse. Although we still don't deserve to go after that performance.



Guess a penalty could have been called too though

[Edited on October 11, 2017 at 9:51 AM. Reason : .]

10/11/2017 9:39:29 AM

Doss2k
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Geez, I mean 100% a penalty so odds are they still score but thats a pretty big blown call that affects a lot of people

10/11/2017 9:45:07 AM

ncsusoccer06
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^ It's a missed call sure - but not a call "that affects a lot of people".

The US blew it. That is what affected a lot of people.

10/11/2017 10:38:25 AM

tulsigabbard
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mexico and costa rica didnt try to win but neither did trinidad

10/11/2017 11:24:16 AM

cptinsano
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Shame we couldn't limp into the WC. Was looking forward to the electric atmosphere in Buffalo Wild Wings when we almost beat a real team in the group stage.

Is there a World Cup NIT?

10/11/2017 11:56:50 AM

tower
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The excuse making is embarrassing. Was that some NC State Shit that happened? Yeah

The US should be above getting done in by nc state shit

10/11/2017 2:03:33 PM

tulsigabbard
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the thing is, the world cup is almost a year away and we could have easily gotten much better by then. Thats what hurts.

Also, the fact that its so easy is what makes it so hard. Our players have trouble getting up to play against a B squad in front of 500 peopl on a flooded middle school field.

Its a lot easier for them to play well against other high level players in front of 50,000 people.

10/11/2017 2:08:40 PM

Flyin Ryan
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Quote :
"To clarify my post, I didnt say every player. I suggested that we subsidize the players that show talent (again, similar to the AAU method in basketball). "


"We" do not subsidize basketball players in AAU. Not the NBA, not the NCAA, not USA Basketball, not the basketball fanbase. The shoe companies, sports agents, and financial advisors do. We just had a huge scandal break about this where an AAU coach told an undercover FBI agent that Rick Pitino swings the biggest dick at Adidas when it came to Pitino getting Adidas to give him money. There's nothing stopping shoe companies et al from doing the same in American soccer. The reason they don't to a larger degree than they do now is they don't see making a large profit off the system in the end. Traffic Sports to a degree tried this and they were the definition of "shady don't give a shit about the kids whose rights they bought". Some of their former executives were deemed guilty of FIFA bribery.

Your system by the way is still pay to play. It's just you're going to emulate every failed social welfare system in recent U.S. history and have the lower middle-class to upper middle-class pay more for their kids to play to subsidize others. And there are youth clubs around that already do this of "they have the one free kid".

[Edited on October 11, 2017 at 9:26 PM. Reason : /]

10/11/2017 9:18:39 PM

Big4Country
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Well since we're out...

2018 Nike US Cup??????

USA
Netherlands
North Korea
Ghana

10/12/2017 12:52:44 AM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"MLS is never going to have relegation. Anyone that attempts to argue this is a fucking dumbass. I don't care about quality of competition, but realistic chance of it actually happening.
-There will always be college soccer (how is the U.S. Soccer Federation going to force N.C. State to dissolve its team?) and as long as they offer scholarships, it will be a potential destination for if not the player the player's parents.
-And do they plan on subsidizing every single travel soccer team in the country?"



Without getting into the technical logistics of promotion/relegation, it has to happen for the US to become a legitimate soccer nation. The college to MLS model absolutely does not keep us on equal footing to the rest of the world. The US, on average, sees a tremendous drop-off in player development between the ages of ~17-22. Consider this:

Cristiano Ronaldo won his first Ballon D'or at age 23.
Lionel Messi won his first Ballon D'or at age 22.

This would make them college seniors/MLS rookies if they were developed via the American "model." US players are too far behind in their development. They always lack technical skill and first touch ability. Just for fun, let's compare:

US midfielder/Forward Gyasi Zardes (age 26, height 6'-2") first touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4KOyhoPIvY

French midfielder Paul Pogba (age 24, height: 6'-3") first touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enmAJLFOzHk


College soccer is absolutely hurting the federation, because Universities focus on winning (for good reason) more than technical development. So players get less hours on the ball. And by the time they graduate and enter the pros, they are already old and behind in technical development compared to their global peers.

The only way to change that is to have MLS promotion/relegation, which in turn creates more teams, and creates more academies, where that technical ability on the ball is nourished, and local talent is discovered and kept within regions rather than having the "select" travel teams that we all grew up with that created a prohibitive cost barrier to entry. And another added benefit of having more robust academies is that the quality of coaching is improved, and it is consistent with the culture of the regional MLS club that it is associated with. This is exactly how Spain created "tiki-taka" that turned them into European monsters, and why they were able to pump out Xavi's and Iniesta's who could control the tempo. It is why Germany seems to never have a shortage of clinical strikers and goal poachers like Klose or Mueller. Because our current model of pay-to-play has kids who move from team to team, where tactics and strategies change depending on the coach (who may or may not be just a dad with a clipboard). Having an increase in academies (that is created with promotion/relegation) reaches more kids and creates a competitive culture where the playing style of the MLS/Division II teams is taught all the way down at the youth level, and we can finally stop looking at "raw athletic talent" as a replacement for technical ability.


Now, I'm sure you know all of this, and I imagine you were making an economic argument more than a soccer argument. Maybe your right, I honestly don't know the financials. But if there isn't a push to go in this direction, then we'll never advance as a soccer nation.

10/12/2017 3:48:53 AM

vinylbandit
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"Also, the fact that its so easy is what makes it so hard. Our players have trouble getting up to play against a B squad in front of 500 peopl on a flooded middle school field. "


This is a bullshit excuse. They knew they needed a point to make the WC. They were playing the worst team in the group. Score a fucking half dozen.

10/12/2017 4:39:46 AM

wahoowa
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There shouldnt be an economic factor with the US federation. They are literally sitting on ~ $100MM in cash right now from the Copa America tournament last year. If they need to subsidize players, coaches, scouts, etc. to make the US more competitive then so be it. How much will they lose from missing the World Cup next year in merchandise, TV rights, etc?

^^ Agreed on college soccer. Its useless for player development. Hence why Pulisic's dad took him to Germany at 16 to actually learn how to play soccer instead of sending him to college to play for 3 months out of the year and then sit on his ass the rest of the time. International countries have their players touching a ball 11 months out of the year and intense competition from early teenage years.

10/12/2017 8:44:45 AM

JesusHChrist
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^I imagine that the economic hurdles are specific to the MLS and its desire to keep a closed system. I doubt that the USSF and MLS share expenses/costs. That will likely have to change, though, and the MLS and USSF needs to be integrated with a common mission statement of improving the USMNT and the USWNT. Promotion/Relegation is the first step in getting robust soccer leagues that identifies and develops talent all the way down to the U-7 level where the focus is on technique, soccer IQ, and hours on the ball rather than simply "winning." Watch any youtube video of Barcelona academies, and you'll see 7,8,9 year olds who are developing insane technique on the ball and possession, and then compare that to the youth leagues of the US where it's just kick-and-chase and players depend on raw athleticism (speed and size) or on hustle/grit. American players typically play tough and physical (which by itself is fine) because they lack the technical proficiency of their international peers, and have to use these "American values" of athleticism to compensate for their technical shortcomings. That will only get us so far, and that talent gap really exposes itself after around the ~17 year mark, where our players are depending on a college system that doesn't care about youth development.

10/12/2017 1:50:04 PM

aimorris
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Quote :
"Say a place the size of Wake County has 3 area-based teams multiplied by 4 age-grade levels and 20 players a side. That's 240 kids. Multiply by 300 due to the population of the country and that's 72,000 kids. Multiply by $500 to cover all costs (and people that fly to Florida or wherever for tournaments, their costs are higher than that) that's $36 million. And that's just boys. You know girls will want the same setup too, so that's $72 million."


That's part of the problem -- soccer shouldn't cost that much. All you need is a ball and goals. All the focus on winning tournaments and playing 40+ games when you're 8 years old is a complete waste of time. Wins and losses don't mean jack shit. My hometown in NC had so much political in-fighting that a once great soccer association that has won state championships is in shambles because everybody just broke off to start their own (which meant finding parents to shell out costs for more league fees, field rentals, etc. when there was already one in place).

USSF can absolutely regulate what kind of soccer gets played (small-sided, possession based soccer) for little kids and what kind of leagues can use their resources/referees. They can spend some of their $100 million surplus to reach out to poorer areas of the country and focus on grassroots. They can make it cheaper to get coaching licenses so our young players aren't learning from whatever dad just cared enough to coach his son's team. I was interested in taking coaching serious when I was college-aged but it's something ridiculous like $4k to get an A license.

Also, there's no path to MLS right now unless you a) get in their academy or b) you're a superstar in college. Some rare players break thru from lower level divisions but it's not happening regularly. Ever try out for a ODP program or try to walk-on at a college? I have. Coaches don't even fucking watch you if you weren't on the team last year. We need more amateur teams, more semi-pro teams, more avenues for players to play soccer, improve, and move up the ladder. There's no money to do that because when MLS teams snatch up all these good players and sell them to overseas clubs for MILLIONS, they keep all the profits and don't share it with the youth clubs that develop these players. Check out the DeAndre Yedlin situation and read about solidarity payments.

There are definitely things that USSF can do to help youth development but no, we have assholes like Bruce Arena giving interviews that it's not their job. Absolute joke.

10/12/2017 8:03:13 PM

Doss2k
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Arena resigns... good timing since everyone will be taking all their anger out on the NCAA today.

10/13/2017 10:34:20 AM

Elwood
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https://deadspin.com/theres-reason-to-hope-for-the-future-of-the-usmnt-1819508627?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

10/16/2017 2:54:21 PM

HOOPS SHALOM
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Is it possible, that like, a team that did make the world cup could be disqualified before next summer for some reason, allowing the US to take their spot?

Like in Monsters University when Jaws Theta Chi was disqualified for using an illegal protective gel during the Urchin team race, which allowed Oozma Kappa to get back into the competition after being knocked out. (Oozma Kappa eventually went on to win the whole damn thing too)

10/17/2017 6:57:03 AM

tulsigabbard
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Quote :
"The U.S. Soccer Federation is looking into the possibility of hosting pre-World Cup international matches involving the United States, Italy, Netherlands, Ghana and Chile."

11/14/2017 11:57:54 PM

Dynasty2004
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can we all get participation trophies too.

11/15/2017 8:16:14 AM

CalledToArms
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Why does everyone have such a problem with trying to get more match experience? American pride at its most stubborn and pointless.

11/15/2017 10:21:09 AM

wazza31
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^ because there is already a tournament at the same time, called the World Cup and a different tournament for the shit teams who couldn't qualify is stupid?

What motivation do the top players from these nations have to play a 9 month season give up their holidays and play a second rate tournament? This is nothing but a money grab by the USSF and I def. won't be watching/attending these third rate fixtures if it is allowed to happen.

11/15/2017 10:37:21 AM

CalledToArms
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It wouldnt be happening at the same time, obviously. If they market it as some big 'tournament' then sure that is a little silly. If it's simply utilized as a way to get some extra experience in via friendlies, I don't see a huge problem with it. If the other teams aren't interested and feel it doesn't make sense then it won't happen. Otherwise, as a fan and supporter, I can't think of any reason I would think negatively about this. Disinterest I could understand.

[Edited on November 15, 2017 at 10:44 AM. Reason : ]

11/15/2017 10:43:18 AM

jocristian
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No kidding. I don't understand the hate either. I understood it as an easy way for WC squads to get some tuneups in against decent teams prior to the WC.

11/15/2017 10:56:09 AM

wazza31
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^ There are already friendlies for that and most teams will go away for a training camp prior to the WC. This tournament serves no purpose because it is likely that the good players won't be released by their clubs or won't risk injuries playing in this tournament. So the tournament is essentially going to be under 23 players with basically nothing to play for other than the fact that their nations couldn't qualify and they want something to do.

There is no point in getting experience when the next World Cup is four years away. Most of the players playing in such a tournament probably won't even be good enough to make it to the actual World Cup squad. So what benefit is there for the national teams to give up a 3 month break?

The USSF should be focusing their energy and resources on fixing the shambles that the current team is in not organizing a different tournament. This reeks of greed on Gulati's part.

11/15/2017 12:34:48 PM

jocristian
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If a WC team could come to the US for a 2 week tour and get 2-4 quality friendlies from different teams as practice for the WC, I think that would be convenient for them if nothing else. In the meantime, it would give the US some brand name games to sell to the fans who won't have a dog in the WC.

11/15/2017 2:39:02 PM

Doss2k
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For US purposes this actual would be beneficial now that we know we need to clean shop anyways. As long as fans are understanding they may not get to see the typical team we can start working some of our younger players to see what we have in the pipeline. Other teams might be willing if the money is right because they are gonna lose out on a bunch from missing the WC.

11/15/2017 3:09:44 PM

rwoody
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Can somebody school me on the Jonathan Gonzalez thing? What happened? Is he good?

1/8/2018 12:06:28 PM

tulsigabbard
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hes a rising star and the us didnt call him up in November or even tell him what his future is so hes going to mexico.

i can't believe we arent playing the ypung guys and didnt call him up for this bosnia herzgovina game. us soccer is incompetent

1/8/2018 12:29:34 PM

Flyin Ryan
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^^ Mexican born in California. Dual-eligible. Chose Mexico.

[Edited on January 9, 2018 at 8:19 PM. Reason : /]

1/9/2018 8:19:27 PM

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