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jbrick83
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Quote :
"You've obviously never ran a small business that is your livelihood... Or if you have, you don't understand the power and importance of self promotion if you want it to succeed."


I do run a small business and I know all about self-promotion. What you're doing here isn't self-promotion...its an attempt at tearing down the competition. You obviously get more responses riling up people in this thread than you do in your "hey look at my videos" thread here: message_topic.aspx?topic=628199. I've always found that people/businesses who spend time degrading the competition must have problems with their own business/product.

The rest of your post doesn't really need to be addressed. I'm just telling you that you look bad in this thread and that you should drop it.

3/30/2013 11:54:19 AM

acraw
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Whatever, Matt. You know what I mean. I've seen many gyms advertising their group excercise class using variations with the word 'fit' ( PowerFit, XtremeFit, SuperFit etc.) due to the surging popularity of Crossfit. Let's be honest, if it wasn't for that, most gyms would have come up with something else. The point is, it catches a perpective clients eye and they should come in and inquire about the group training.

Give credit where credit is due, if it wasn't for Crossfit the demand for boot camp and group excercise and "funtional" fitness would not be this popular several years ago.

3/30/2013 2:13:36 PM

MattJMM2
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Quote :
"I do run a small business and I know all about self-promotion. What you're doing here isn't self-promotion...its an attempt at tearing down the competition. You obviously get more responses riling up people in this thread than you do in your "hey look at my videos" thread here: message_topic.aspx?topic=628199. I've always found that people/businesses who spend time degrading the competition must have problems with their own business/product.

The rest of your post doesn't really need to be addressed. I'm just telling you that you look bad in this thread and that you should drop it.

"


I am going to point out nonsense wherever I see it, and if it benefits my business, I am going to do it with that much more gusto. There is so much nonsense with crossfit. I don't make this shit up, and I am by far not the only one who shares this opinion.

And this is the reason: You can pay $3,000 for the license and then $1,000 and a weekend for the certification and then you can call yourself an officially licensed crossfit affiliate and coach. There is absolutely ZERO quality control. All you need is some cash and now you are an expert.

Do you agree or disagree that crossfitters are disproportionately injured?

I don't really care if you think I look bad. I am not calling people names like you are. I am just pointing out some of the funny and ridiculous points about crossfit. Sorry for not being a xfit nutswinger itt. I am going to call shenanigans on any nonsense I see.

Quote :
"Whatever, Matt. You know what I mean. I've seen many gyms advertising their group excercise class using variations with the word 'fit' ( PowerFit, XtremeFit, SuperFit etc.) due to the surging popularity of Crossfit. Let's be honest, if it wasn't for that, most gyms would have come up with something else. The point is, it catches a perpective clients eye and they should come in and inquire about the group training.

Give credit where credit is due, if it wasn't for Crossfit the demand for boot camp and group excercise and "funtional" fitness would not be this popular several years ago."


Give credit where credit is due? Crossfit did not invent bootcamp fitness. Sorry. It didn't invent the word 'fit' either. But that doesn't matter.

And, in fact, when I explain to a new prospect what STACFit is... I use this phrase almost exactly: "This is our rip off of crossfit, except better"

You can make whatever assumptions you want to make. I just find it hilarious that I've read PackMan92 allude that he only uses the Crossfit name for branding to draw in easy business. I say to hell with being a follower, i've got the skill set to build my own brand with out coat-tailing it for ~$3k a year for a brand license and following the 'popular surge'.

Want to know what's funny? About 15% of my new business is from former crossfitters wanting something better. And you know what else? They actually compliment me on how much better, well thought out, facility equipped, coached, and safer our programming is.

FYI: There's a crossfit across the street from my facility (basically one every damn street corner in Raleigh). And, I'm thriving.

[Edited on March 30, 2013 at 2:49 PM. Reason : ;]

3/30/2013 2:46:21 PM

raiden
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Honestly I used to have a bit of respect but you've talked more about your haterade of crossfit than the benefits of your gym.

get off their nuts and start showing off why your shit is worth 400 bucks a month. That's a hard sell to me.

Gold's Gym didn't invent the word gym but they damn sure marketed it correctly.

3/30/2013 3:11:13 PM

MattJMM2
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$400/month is only for high frequency (4/week) personal training. My rates for crossfit comparable classes are $10-15/class.

Benefits? Intelligent programming that is customized for each individual trainee that is targeted to balance asymmetries, fix weaknesses, and develop strengths to create a well rounded athlete. Furthermore there isn't a tone of bravado at my gym. If your form slips, you call the set. If you are gassed out, you tap out. Puking is not encouraged.

You can't do that that with a one size fits all WOD.


[Edited on March 30, 2013 at 3:57 PM. Reason : words]

3/30/2013 3:54:35 PM

jbrick83
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Quote :
"Honestly I used to have a bit of respect but you've talked more about your haterade of crossfit than the benefits of your gym."


This is what I'm getting at.

3/30/2013 3:57:11 PM

MattJMM2
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Most of my haterade is in response to the name calling, although I do antagonize it. But come on guys, a little drama is fun!

I also openly admit that a big part of my hatred is jealously of their marketing success. That's why I adamantly point out the dark side.

[Edited on March 30, 2013 at 4:01 PM. Reason : moar]

3/30/2013 3:58:20 PM

raiden
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Quote :
" Intelligent programming that is customized for each individual trainee that is targeted to balance asymmetries, fix weaknesses, and develop strengths to create a well rounded athlete. Furthermore there isn't a tone of bravado at my gym. If your form slips, you call the set. If you are gassed out, you tap out. Puking is not encouraged."


That's what I get at the xfit gym I go to, and I don't pay 400/month for it.

3/30/2013 4:01:54 PM

MattJMM2
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If you are getting high quality personal training (technique instruction, customized programming and nutrition consultation) for 4/week under $400, and you have access to sleds, bumpers, KBs, full set of DBs, specialty bars, cable machines, 40 yards of turf, strong man implements and more....

Than you are getting a better value than what I offer. Congrats! (and imo, you aren't doing crossfit)

[Edited on March 30, 2013 at 4:15 PM. Reason : ;]

3/30/2013 4:13:53 PM

PackMan92
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Matt, what IS CrossFit?
(As you see it)

I call what I do CrossFit, but I feel like we're talking about different things?

We follow a modified Westside template...lots of sleds, kb work, bands/chains, olympic lifting (not typically in a wod), box squats, focus on speed/agility, skill work, nothing crazy high rep (no high rep box jumps or deadlifts for sure), accessory work to bring up individual weaknesses, most WODs tend to be less than 12 min and purely supplemental to our strength programming, and when I can talk my business partner into buying specialty bars, you'd better believe we'll have some.

So is that CrossFit?

3/30/2013 5:19:04 PM

MattJMM2
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I think that is a great point to raise, and I will admit it's a tough question.

Because, from how it sounds, what you do sounds great. I honestly mean that, and I have a lot of respect for that. And, in my opinion, if you frame it that way it's not crossfit. You are following a strength & conditioning program under the crossfit brand license. I understand that can be heavily debated.

And, I suppose this is where a lot of the debate comes up.

On the other hand of the spectrum, go youtube crossfit fails and it will highlight a lot of what I talk about. Or take a read here: http://joshsgarage.typepad.com/Crossfit_White_Papers_--_Timeline.html

I completely understand that all boxes are different, but there does seem to be a trend of certain injuries (low back, labrum tears, rhabdo, achilles ruptures) and behaviors/attitudes ("my warm up is your workout") that stem from crossfit.

And, I will say it again as I've said before (and this may apply to your box) if you have a good coach, you have a good coach, no matter what methodology it's labeled as.

3/30/2013 5:30:44 PM

LunaK
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So the exception isn't the rule.... And you'll admit as much.

So move on

3/30/2013 6:50:48 PM

MattJMM2
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I could argue that ^^^'s box is the exception, not the rule. But I won't for the sake of shutting up

3/31/2013 7:04:27 AM

PackMan92
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For the record, I have no hostility towards Matt. I've heard good things about his place and its obvious he gets results. I personally hate doing one-on-one sessions, after being at a regular globo for 4+ years.

My good friend just opened up a gym in the Brier Creek area. She's been a CF coach for a long time and decided not to affiliate. Do I think her business will suffer? No. I originally affiliated for "the name", but now it's really more about the community (remember, we're not all bad).

Anywho, here's her gym site for anyone in Brier Creek area...I'm extremely jealous of their setup (rent is cheap out there!):

http://www.marvelstrengthconditioning.com/

[Edited on March 31, 2013 at 7:38 AM. Reason : ]

3/31/2013 7:33:36 AM

MattJMM2
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Thank you, Mike. Likewise, about you and your facility. Hopefully you've noticed I've never directed personal attacks at you, or anyone else (unless first provoked and except face of course).

I am curious to see how unaffiliated facilities will do (my own included). Obviously you get less name recognition so that's an obstacle, but also an opportunity to be a killer businessman. Getting results and customer satisfaction is a definite requirement, but with the saturation of the fitness industry it seems you also have to be a good marketer.

From my calculations, the crossfit business model is not optimized for hands free operation. In other words, most owners have to be the primary (or highly active) coach. Right now I am in the process of systemizing all aspects of my gym so I don't have to be present for it to operate.

The goal being have it turn enough profit so starting a new venture is optional if I want to remove myself from day-to-day operation.



[Edited on March 31, 2013 at 8:17 AM. Reason : moar words]

3/31/2013 8:13:38 AM

PackMan92
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I wouldn't want it to be truly hands free. We keep adding coaches with the intention of me coaching less, but it's what I love to do. I can't imagine having less of a presence on a regular basis. I'd feel disconnected. I plan to add more options in the future that don't require me at the helm (specialy classes, kid classes, ability to be approved for some limited "do your own thing" memberships). Who knows, might even open a second location or pair up in a huge space with our physical therapist and Chiro. I have lots of goals, none of which involve me being less involved.

3/31/2013 8:20:40 AM

MattJMM2
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Understandable, and that mindset is a great thing. I just want to have a very balanced and flexible life... in other words, having the the time and resources to do whatever I want, when I want.

Your situation maybe different since you have a business partner and can spread responsibility around. In my shoes, if something needs to get taken care of; either I have to pay someone to do it, do it myself, or it's not getting done. That being the case for every task or situation, it's quickly overwhelming if you are trying to get a lot done and keep costs low.

With the crossfit model, it seems to almost fall in to the traditional gym model if you want to make millions off of it. It either requires a significant portion of members don't use their membership frequently, or you have to scale up with multiple locations.

My business has this same challenge, although I am trying to mitigate it by maximizing the most profitable services.

[Edited on March 31, 2013 at 8:31 AM. Reason : ;]

3/31/2013 8:29:19 AM

acraw
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Quote :
"Give credit where credit is due? Crossfit did not invent bootcamp fitness. Sorry. It didn't invent the word 'fit' either. But that doesn't matter."


Obviously!

I have been in gyms long enough to recognize trends in the fitness industry. Before the 'surge' many "globo gyms" would just call their group classes, bootcamps, circuit training, etc.

Crossfit didn't invent the word fit, but it's a common catchword used by a lot of "globo gyms" to advertise their classes. You can look at it in the same way as generic vs name brand products in the cereal aisle. The similarity in the names give the shopper the notion that it's a similar product/quality. I don't need to take a business class to understand that.

And you just admitted that's exactly what you're doing too...

Quote :
"This is our rip off of crossfit, except better"


For the record, I still like Matt.

4/1/2013 12:56:57 AM

MattJMM2
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Even though I have beef with crossfit. I'm not a bad guy, I promise

IMO, crossfit is very nebulus and means a lot of different things to different people. One downside to this, is that it is becoming a 'Generic Trademark'. Pretty much if anyone sees someone doing HICT (high intensity circuit training) they could make an argument that it is crossfit.

For example, one day in a globo gym I was doing dead lifts, box jumps, and push ups in a circuit. Some bro comes up to me and says: "Hey bro, you doing crossfit?"

While STACFit, IMO is my own creation (and the summation of many other successful ideas of other fitness entrepreneurs), I do benefit from the generic branding and catchiness of adding a Fit to the end. So what?

[Edited on April 1, 2013 at 9:39 AM. Reason : words]

4/1/2013 9:37:36 AM

settledown
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help me out here - I need to explain why CrossFit is not a cult in no more that a few sentences

4/1/2013 9:45:45 AM

raiden
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There's plenty of Google search results for that. For me, the coaches at the box I go to do a great job of making the wods fit my goals, and I'm having fun doing the Endurance wods as well.

4/4/2013 8:45:11 AM

rflong
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I've been doing Crossfit down here in Fayetteville (Iron Forged) for a few weeks now and I love the group workout/trainer style setup. I've never worked out like this before as it's always been self motivation, pick my own workout, typical stuff. It's nice to be challenged by a partner and/or coach daily. It's expensive, but worth it. Hope I'll get results that I see in the other members.

The founder of this gym is Nate Schrader and that guy is a beast. The group WODs do not follow the ones posted at Crossfit.com which I appreciate as it shows they are trying to develop workouts to fit their members.

4/4/2013 4:20:30 PM

GKMatt
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good because the hq workouts are terrible

4/4/2013 6:10:54 PM

raiden
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Ditto at the place I go to as well, they don't go off the main site WODs.

The Endurance wods have been kicking my ass but I'm definitely running faster and with better form/efficiency.

4/28/2013 8:29:08 PM

rflong
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So we worked on finding our max front squat today. I got 275 which I was happy with as I have only really done front squats with weights about 3-4 times before. I still struggle with it bothering my wrists when holding the bar.

We followed it up by doing Diane, deadlifts then handstand pushups, 3 sets at 21-15-9 with no rest. I wanted to do the HSPU on the wall, but since I am still new, they had me use the box. I got done in 5:14 which I was happy with although not doing the HSPU on the wall makes that workout significantly easier.

Even though it's only been about 5-6 weeks, I am seeing some solid improvement already, mainly in my endurance. I really did not work out for about 18 months due a bulging disc. Since starting back, my back is feeling pretty damn good without hardly ever needing to use anti-inflammatories.




[Edited on April 29, 2013 at 2:26 PM. Reason : df]

4/29/2013 2:21:30 PM

skywalkr
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I had a hard time with front squats hurting my wrist until I really found that sweet spot to rest the bar and just used my fingers to keep the bar steady. Might as well do some wrist stretching while you are at it though, will need it with clean and jerks and whatnot. That always was a huge weak point for me since I had wrist surgery previously.

4/29/2013 2:44:44 PM

GKMatt
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if you are going to front squat out of a power rack you could always use a crossed arm grip until you work your wrist flexibiliy/mobility up.

4/29/2013 2:52:36 PM

PackMan92
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Some would argue that the cross arm position is a terrible idea as it can force your shoulders to internally rotate and make it harder to keep your upper back vertical under heavier loads. That and there's no carryover to cleans, which may or may not be a concern.

I would try and figure out the limiting joint/tissue and work towards fixing the issue.

Anterior chest and shoulder
Posterior shoulder and lat
Triceps and forearms
Thoracic spine


In some instances it could be a hip or ankle issue.

4/29/2013 3:58:43 PM

rflong
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^^ The trainers at the gym allowed one guy to do the crossed arm grip, but they really encouraged me to keep working with a "regular grip". By the end I the irritation was not nearly as noticeable so I am sure it'll get to be less of an issue as time goes by. Can't go to the gym today due to work. Sucks. I hate missing a class...

4/30/2013 12:00:04 PM

rflong
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Damn cardio workout today about killed me. I hate running so much, aggravates my bulging disc more than anything else we do (I think it is the constant pounding and probably my poor running posture that exaggerate it even more).

We did 3 rounds of: 800 m run, 50 KBs at 16kg, 3 min air dyne, 50 KB snatches at 16 kg.

It took me 39 minutes and I looked like I jumped in the pool by the time I finished. Just shows me how out of shape I am.

5/2/2013 2:12:30 PM

raiden
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yeah I've been doing crossfit endurance wods as well, and love it! My running has improved greatly.

5/2/2013 4:41:51 PM

acraw
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^^land mid foot, lean forward a little. And short strides.

5/2/2013 5:14:51 PM

acraw
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Anybody have a video of the "Agergate"? Wow, lots of controversy at Regionals already.

5/21/2013 11:59:59 PM

benz240
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^ Here's an article explaining things... http://therxreview.com/andrea-ager-corrects-crossfits-mistake-at-socal-regionals/

Not as exciting as Ryan Fisher yelling "I will fucking kill you" to his judge...and then getting publicly embarrassed by Dave Castro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=god_wfQeZuI

5/22/2013 6:34:23 AM

acraw
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I think the public humiliation is uncalled for.

5/22/2013 5:43:07 PM

acraw
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Most downloaded song of the week?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc2mZkyb2so

9/28/2013 3:29:22 PM

JT3bucky
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anyone doing all of the CF stuff in their home gym or warehouse or something?

Paying all the ridiculous fees at a gym seems rather stupid.

9/29/2013 11:23:49 PM

GrayFox33
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I know several people who do the workouts at home for the very reason you stated.

I see this debate crop up every once in a while: $$$ for Membership vs. $$$ for home gym equipment - and which has the better ROI.


If you have the space at home, I don't see why you wouldn't accumulate some gym equipment over time. But I realize that some people are probably fine paying for a gym membership to get the camaraderie / competition / experience that comes along with it.

Diff'rent strokes, diff'rent folks.

9/30/2013 9:17:22 AM

LV2state
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if anyone wants to come try a crossfit workout. I am a level one coach and my box would love to have you try it.

PM me.

9/30/2013 10:20:14 AM

PackMan92
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If you can push yourself at home all by yourself, go for it. I can't stand working out alone and I know most of the members of my gym can't either...that's why they joined in the first place (and boredom).

9/30/2013 11:20:03 AM

acraw
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People still bitch about the membership fees? I looked into incorporating yoga or pilates to my routine and from shopping around, they're actually more expensive or equal to the monthly fees for most CF gyms.

But...no one complains about paying so much for "advanced stretching and meditating techniques" right?

9/30/2013 11:33:27 AM

GrayFox33
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I'd complain if my $200/month went to that Bring Sally Up "workout"

[Edited on September 30, 2013 at 12:24 PM. Reason : but I wouldn't be spending that much anyway ]

9/30/2013 12:17:39 PM

CaelNCSU
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https://medium.com/health-fitness-1/97bcce70356d

Quote :
"Rhabdomyolysis, apart from being a subtly pleasant and melodic sounding word, is an uncool, serious and potentially fatal condition resulting from the catastrophic breakdown of muscle cells. We’ll get more into the specifics in just a bit, but first let’s begin with a story."


A little sensational, but seems like a shitty condition.

9/30/2013 1:40:41 PM

GKMatt
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and very very very rare.

9/30/2013 4:43:44 PM

GoldieO
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Kevin Ogar - paralyzed

http://www.crossfitinvictus.com/blog/our-thoughts-and-prayers-are-with-kevin-ogar/

An accident, or another example of CFit programming leading to injury? I still haven't seen video so I don't know the specifics of how his injury occurred.

1/14/2014 6:13:03 AM

MattJMM2
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What a terrible tragedy.

I hope this opens the eyes of crossfit apologists. Crossfit is not for health. It's competitive fitness. When you compete, you voluntarily accept to sacrifice a modicum of health for performance.

1/14/2014 9:17:00 AM

rflong
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I guess the facts will come out regarding what happened to Ogar, but what I am seeing on other forums is that he was attempting his first rep on a snatch and the lost control of the bar. If that is the case, then I am not sure how you blame Crossfit for this. Any person could be hurt doing an overhead lift if they lose control of the bar.

I am not a Crossfit apologist either as I understand the arguments on both sides. I guess it really depends on the gym and the trainers. I personally feel like the trainers at my gym go out of their way to keep people from getting hurt, but I have heard the horror stories at other gyms where there seems to be no supervision.

1/14/2014 10:25:34 AM

skywalkr
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I certainly feel bad for the guy but how stupid do you have to be to engage in that sort of activity without health insurance? And you can definitely look at crossfit in two ways, one for health (which is what your average crossfit gym SHOULD be and should program around), and then you have your competitive side which should be treated differently.

Competitive training for any sport isn't done for health purposes, the biggest issue with crossfit in this regard is your average soccer mom might get the idea that she should be training like those who are competitors and could do things that put her at a higher risk of injury. A good coach should prevent this.

1/14/2014 12:58:48 PM

Skwinkle
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I was talking to one of the owners of my old gym about a guy who was an Olympic hopeful a few years ago. He said there were several Olympic hopefuls (mostly track and field, I think, but they were working out hard with weights) in the group. He also said that most of them didn't have health insurance because training was more or less their jobs and they couldn't afford it, both because they weren't bringing in much money and because their coverage rates would be extremely high.

1/14/2014 1:03:01 PM

jbrick83
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Quote :
"I certainly feel bad for the guy but how stupid do you have to be to engage in that sort of activity without health insurance?"


I imagine their rates are through the roof. Not really that surprising.

1/14/2014 1:30:59 PM

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