She was a smoker all her life. Didn't go to the doctor because she thought it was the flu, then had to be taken to the ER by my aunts. Should I go ahead and make the 5.5 hour drive today, is the end near?

1/2/2011 7:53:54 AM

sorry to hear that chance

i'll offer this, i know personally 4 elderly people who in the last year were submitted to the hospital and experienced what at the time looked like fatal conditions, but ended up making full recoveries. the human body is remarkably resilient. add in modern medical technology and it's pretty amazing what people can survive

good luck to you and your family

1/2/2011 8:00:07 AM

Thats good to hear.

My pops is a respiratory therapist so I tend to hear all the stories of the elderly succumbing to pneumonia.

1/2/2011 9:20:44 AM

My post in this thread message_topic.aspx?topic=605327 didn't mention that my mom's initial issue was with pneumonia

It was pretty grim, but she's aight

1/2/2011 9:29:19 AM

Was she in good health before that? I've always understood that pneumonia is something that kinda sets in when your lungs aren't in generally good shape or you have some other issues going on.

My grandmother is tough as nails but shes been on that constant "always something wrong" cycle for a couple years now since she had a mild heart attack. She amazingly managed to kick the smoking habit after probably 45 years of it after seeing her brother (who lived with her) die from emphysema but her health hasn't exactly markedly improved.

1/2/2011 9:38:30 AM

my grandmother had stage 4 kidney cancer & was in the hospital twice w/ pneumonia. she came home both times, despite the doctors telling us that the end was near. my grandpa, who smoked all his life until maybe 16-17 years ago (so he smoked for 49 years), has had pneumonia several times but has always come back home recovered. she died from her cancer in august, & he currently has lung cancer that's spread to his liver & possibly his brain. he had a stroke last year too. my great-grandma fell & broke her hip at 94, got pneumonia in the hospital, & died several months later.

point is, my grandparents were/are in much worse shape than it sounds like your grandma is & they both recovered. great-grandma was REALLY old, so that's the major factor there.

there's a pneumonia vaccine that covers 23 of the 80 bacteria that cause bacterial pneumonia. this of course doesn't work for viral pneumonia. it lasts like 5-7 years. i've had it (autoimmune disorder, major open chest surgery, etc etc).

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 10:10 AM. Reason : ]

1/2/2011 10:08:07 AM

Lifelong smoker, but no smoking-related health problems before that

1/2/2011 10:15:21 AM

sorry to hear that- I hope she makes a quick recovery. And even if you think she might be alright, if you can afford to make the drive, probably not a bad idea. I regret not seeing my grandmother for a couple of years and then her passing before I got another chance.



(not sure exactly what your expecting from chit chat though)

1/2/2011 10:19:23 AM

I was multiple states away when both grandmothers died. They were both sudden deaths and wasn't able to come home to see them. I was only able to make it to ones funeral. My last memories of each is when they were alive and relatively healthy. I wish I could have seen them one last time but I wouldn't want to remember them on their deathbed. That being said. You should probably go see her. Might be your last chance and also she could be feeling very alone and seeing her family might cheer her up.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 10:30 AM. Reason : I]

1/2/2011 10:29:03 AM

you could not go.....and take a chance.

1/2/2011 10:30:21 AM

you probably should go. just in case.

i was there until the end for my grandmother. she died a very very slow death from her cancer. at the end she couldn't speak, couldn't move, just stared off into the distance somewhere. they say that hearing is the last to go, & that they know you're there even if it doesn't seem that way. i talked to her, told her what i did that day, told her i loved her. she was able to shift her gaze somewhat towards me, which mom said she hadn't done in days. it was disturbing, but i don't regret it. i wanted her to know i was there & loved her. she died 20 hours later. my mom & grandpa sat with her while she died & talked to her, held her hand, the whole time. mom wouldn't let me in.

my brother didn't want to see her in that state at the end, he wanted the more lively image of grandmommy as his last. people handle it differently. i just hated to think that she might think i was scared to be around her or something. i don't think badly of my brother for not visiting though. i was much closer to her than he was anyway & live <1 mile from her house.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 10:43 AM. Reason : f]

1/2/2011 10:43:09 AM

you should definitely go, but not because you're afraid she's gonna die, but because you love your grandma.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 10:53 AM. Reason : family is important. ]

1/2/2011 10:52:58 AM

Quote :

"is the end near?"

what do the docs say?

I would try to go either way.

1/2/2011 10:55:31 AM

^^. Yea that's the point I was trying to get across but your statement is more direct.

1/2/2011 11:02:02 AM

Quote :

"Should I go ahead and make the 5.5 hour drive today, is the end near?"

What do you want to do?

Know it? Yeah? Good.

Do that. Seriously, this isn't fucking rocket science.

1/2/2011 12:19:57 PM

My mom got double pneumonia after delivering my sister. She had to stay in the hospital awhile but she's still alive and well 25 years later.

1/2/2011 1:43:11 PM

At the very least, go and support your parents/aunts

1/2/2011 1:48:13 PM

I'd go see her. I got to see my grandmother right before she died in November. When I saw her I didn't think the end would have been so near as she was talking and moving around. She died 2 days later.

I don't think it's really about pneumonia. I had pneumonia twice when I was a baby, but it is very different when you're old.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 1:56 PM. Reason : adf]

1/2/2011 1:54:34 PM

i'd go.

hope her recovery is swift.

1/2/2011 1:56:11 PM

I was 16 yrs old when my grandma stroked...we got the call after midnight and i threatened my parents to get in the car and drive myself if they didn't get thier asses in the car.
We left immediately.

Go see your Grandma.

1/2/2011 2:40:49 PM

My granddaddy had pneumonia last year, smoker (cigar) all his life too. He recovered, but I went just to be sure. He's in his 80s. Just felt right to go...even if not for him, for my mom bc she was a wreck with worry.

Whatever you decide, I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery.

1/2/2011 2:48:13 PM

I'd go.

1/2/2011 2:49:26 PM

Dude sorry to hear that Chance.

When my grandmother went to the hospital for similar problems they told us that she would most likely be out in a week and not to worry. Nevertheless I went and saw her the first day, and then the next day she had to be intubated and never regained consciousness.

So my advice is to go, because I am so thankful that I got to spend the few hours with her instead of waiting the next day and having my last moments with her in such a sad state.

1/2/2011 2:58:08 PM

yeah, sorry to hear that dude.

is TWW softening?

1/2/2011 3:13:26 PM

I'd go, especially if you love your G'ma. I miss mine

1/2/2011 5:16:37 PM

a kinder, gentler wolfweb?

1/2/2011 5:51:26 PM

If you are close to her i would go irregardless of the expected outcome

1/2/2011 5:52:28 PM

Quote :

"(not sure exactly what your expecting from chit chat though)"

I was expecting stories of those who have been in a similar situation.

I just saw her last week for Christmas and we're somewhat close but I don't think we're close like I know a lot of folks are with their grandparents (which is odd because she is the only grandparent I ever had).

I'm gonna call the fam here in a few and get a status update. Hoping for the best.

1/2/2011 5:56:22 PM

I never got the chance to say Good bye to my grandmother and she was the person I was closest to in my whole life Family is indeed important and I still wish every day I had been able to say goodbye.

1/2/2011 6:22:27 PM

^^ I know what you mean. I don't really know my grandmother well and wouldn't go out of my way to the hospital if I had other obligations like work competing. Some might think that's sad but that's just the way it is in my family.

1/2/2011 6:27:32 PM

Go see her. Sorry to hear this crap is going on. End of life stuff is always really difficult.

Be sure to look out for her best interests, too; quality of life matters. Don't let her be subjected to an endless battery of desperate life-saving attempts. These end up stripping people of their dignity and making death horrifying and morbid. If it looks like the end (or if continuing means an utterly pathetic state), then you should try and be the proponent of a rational, calm, dignified end. Realizing it's over and accepting it calmly can do a lot to alleviate suffering and increase quality of life, overall.

Not saying your grannie is dead just keep an eye out for the end, and realize that since nobody can stop death from coming, submission to it at some point is essential to the quality of the passing.

1/2/2011 7:03:37 PM

depends on any previous health issues...

My Grandaddy had pneumonia and they found he had lung cancer. Smoker all his life, given six months to live, died within less than a month. You never know what can happen. If you are close with her at all, go, just in case. Best of luck

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 7:12 PM. Reason : ]

1/2/2011 7:11:59 PM

I got a status update. She is doing a little better, but still in ICU. Basically, her throat and mouth have gotten so dried out that she can't eat anything and they have her on IVs. Most worrisome is her BP is 100/40. She can barely walk.

Quote :

"Realizing it's over and accepting it calmly can do a lot to alleviate suffering and increase quality of life, overall."

Do you have first hand experience in an EOL situation? Like, where you were a decider or were old enough to understand it all?

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 7:47 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2011 7:47:34 PM

I'd go.




--with a lawyer and piece of paper with the word "WILL" on top and a smooth tip black gel pen.

1/2/2011 7:54:39 PM

that sucks to hear

keep us informed of how things go.

1/2/2011 7:58:21 PM

Quote :

"If you are close to her i would go irregardless of the expected outcome"

irregardless is incorrect. it's just regardless.

Quote :

"I was expecting stories of those who have been in a similar situation."

i think they meant that you probably should have posted this in the lounge bc chit chat is trashy.

Quote :

"Not saying your grannie is dead just keep an eye out for the end"

no matter how much you read or are told about how to identify when the active dying process starts, you'll never be able to predict it. my mom & i read everything we could get our hands on bc grandmommy just kept getting worse & worse, in such horrible shape, hanging long wayyyy longer than anybody ever thought a person could. we thought for months that today was the day. there is a marked different in the active & passive (i guess) dying phases though. just do yourself a favor & don't read too much about how to know when this starts or it's all you'll be looking for every time you see her.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 8:06 PM. Reason : sad]

1/2/2011 8:01:02 PM

Quote :

"Do you have first hand experience in an EOL situation? Like, where you were a decider or were old enough to understand it all?"

Yeah, along with others. I ended up arriving to a situation a bit late, after a behavioral pattern had already been established in my family (situation was with my grandmother as well). I got swept along as, at first, didn't want to rock the boat much and just wanted to help (as I couldn't know the situation until I was in it for a while). Eventually I ended up having to go through a series of difficult arguments in order to bring people around to a reasonable position.

It's hard to be reasonable when you're in the middle of these EOL dramas; you try to make whatever decision is best locally, and it's hard to generate a good long-term plan as you're too exhausted from the short term all of the time. Try and think it out carefully ahead of time so that when you're in the middle of it, you don't buy the bullshit. Sometimes doctors sell you a bunch of fairytale horseshit and rainbows and sunbeams when really the best thing for grannie is to be put out to pasture with some drugs to maintain her comfort.

Quote :

"no matter how much you read or are told about how to identify when the active dying process starts, you'll never be able to predict it. my mom & i read everything we could get our hands on bc grandmommy just kept getting worse & worse, in such horrible shape, hanging long wayyyy longer than anybody ever thought a person could. we thought for months that today was the day. there is a marked different in the active & passive (i guess) dying phases though. just do yourself a favor & don't read too much about how to know when this starts or it's all you'll be looking for every time you see her."

I think you're misunderstanding what I was going on about. I didn't mean to try and predict when people are going to die. I was merely suggesting to be realistic about it and accept the evidence when it's prevented. So many people try to prolong life against all odds, and doing this indefinitely never ends well.

[Edited on January 2, 2011 at 11:34 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2011 11:32:58 PM

The way I understand it, pneumonia is one of those tricky things in an elderly person--it can clear up or it can bring down the final curtain. I realize 5.5 hours is a long drive and if you've seen her recently it might be enough--it really depends on what your gut feeling is. The prognosis only matters so much--if she does pass, would you be content with your memories from your Christmas visit, or would it be important to you to make the hospital visit?

My great-uncle passed away unexpectedly on December 28th--as my grandfather on that side died back in 2001, Uncle George was kind of the patriarch of the family, and we all thought he was in relatively good health for being 88 years old. He called me on Christmas night, which was highly unusual as he hated to talk on the phone, much preferring to write letters. It was a short conversation but, not having seen him in over a year (he lived in south Florida), it meant a lot to me to have spoken to him so soon before his passing.

1/3/2011 12:23:20 PM

if she is an important person in your life, make the drive.

if not, send a card.

1/3/2011 1:43:44 PM

go see her

i was the last one to visit my grandmother in her hospital room before she passed

she had a DNR order and went into cardiac arrest as I was leaving the hospital

got a call 20 minutes later..

go see you family.

1/3/2011 1:46:47 PM

I'm always thankful that i visited my grandfather after a stroke put him in a nursing home.

It was about an 8 hour drive

I got to tell him I love him.

He died a couple weeks later.

1/3/2011 2:09:33 PM