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 Message Boards » » "Democrat party credibility watch" Thread? Page 1 ... 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24, Prev Next  
theDuke866
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^^ anti-police militarization, criminal justice reform, immigration reform, vast reduction in the drug war and broader change in mindset and approach. I am opposed to more progressive taxation in general, but I do think we need to address the very tip-top pinnacle, like the top 0.1% or 0.01% or whatever, where the taxation curve goes sharply regressive due to income being derived from investments and taxed at the LTCG/dividend rate. The solution there isn't a higher rate in any bracket, but maybe to do something like treat investment income just like ordinary income once past a certain threshold...maybe a few hundred thousand per year or something.

8/30/2018 1:11:51 PM

dtownral
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if that's true then you're left of the centrist dems you won't vote for because they're socialists

[Edited on August 30, 2018 at 1:13 PM. Reason : ']

8/30/2018 1:13:36 PM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"Still don't agree. While his own-party approval rating is strong, the dissenters are FAR more vociferously opposed. I mean, you have a slew of GOP heavy-hitters, from George Will on down, saying "Fuck this, this is appalling, for both love of country and long-term benefit to the GOP, this ship needs to be scuttled. Elect Democrats."


My dude.......ain't nobody give a shit about a mothafuckin' George Will. Nobody. That old dinosaur is not a heavy-hitter. He doesn't influence or sway shit.

The only people who give a shit about established media circles and the pundit class are, interestingly enough, establishment Democratic party leaders, who keep courting these people instead of the proles.

Quote :
"but you don't seem to be thoroughly and deeply considering the arguments for the competing approach."


Yes I am. If the right-wing is consolidating the center, then competing over a smaller voting population is guaranteed to lose, because the right has purged the left out of the voter rolls via gerrymandering, voter suppression, mass incarceration, denaturalization (coming soon), court stacking, attacks on labor, and appeals to religion and social wedge issues. That's by design. And this is obvious, considering that the last two Republican Presidents both lost the popular vote. The solution (well, short of some sort of insurgent armed struggle) is to expand voter access and to appeal to the disenfranchised by addressing their immediate material concerns. You can't win political power by appeasing your political opponents. You win by defeating them. The right understands this, the left does not.

Quote :
"I'd love to see the Wall Street and Silicon Valley types fully jump ship to the Dems, join up with the rest of the educated elites, and it be a party of winners + a collection of special interests that are maybe not coherent, but are opposed by Trumpism."


Man, where you been? You just described the current Democratic Party. It IS the party of Wall Street and Tech giants and professional elite. That's its core constituency. That's why those of us on the left are tired of trying to use the democratic machine as a vehicle for change, because it's tied to the special interests you just described.


I don't get it. The Democratic Party has transformed itself (for the worse, especially if you're a worker) to be the party you just described (old school Republicans, basically), which is where you would fall politically. Right-wing drift has transformed the Republican Party (in our lifetimes) from the party of Trickle-down neo-liberal economics (Reagan/Thatcher), to the neo-conservative imperialists (Bush/Cheney), to the white-nationalist party of Trump. The Democratic party now resembles the Regan/Thatcher Republican party (and increasingly the war-hawkish Bush party) as they have no institutional interest in restoring any New Deal policies that protected the working poor. And yet you still only give them 5% interest in your vote, which is why it's fucking stupid for them to keep trying to court your vote when there are millions of current non-voters who would fight for healthcare, higher minimum wages, and education for their children.

8/30/2018 1:51:26 PM

adultswim
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Quote :
"^^ anti-police militarization, criminal justice reform, immigration reform, vast reduction in the drug war and broader change in mindset and approach. I am opposed to more progressive taxation in general, but I do think we need to address the very tip-top pinnacle, like the top 0.1% or 0.01% or whatever, where the taxation curve goes sharply regressive due to income being derived from investments and taxed at the LTCG/dividend rate. The solution there isn't a higher rate in any bracket, but maybe to do something like treat investment income just like ordinary income once past a certain threshold...maybe a few hundred thousand per year or something."


That's a great start, but how does that solve the problem of upward mobility and lack of a basic standard of living? You're still stuck with a lower class who can't afford life's necessities (biggest problem being healthcare). What's so bad about providing healthcare to everyone, same as the rest of the first world? Lifespans are actually decreasing for the poor in this country, and increasing in countries with nationalized healthcare. It's shameful.

[Edited on August 30, 2018 at 2:03 PM. Reason : .]

8/30/2018 2:02:07 PM

synapse
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is this also true?

Quote :
" I am opposed to more progressive taxation in general"

8/30/2018 2:07:12 PM

theDuke866
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^ I am not opposed to somewhat progressive income taxes. I am opposed to the total tax burden being progressive. Linear overall rate (or nearly so) generally requires modestly progressive income tax structure.

As far as the rest, yes...I am easily to the left of many centrist Dems on numerous issues. As I explained in one of these posts, I am probably further to the left socially than I am to the right fiscally, but I am more personally motivated by economic issues. I want to be one of the good guys and do right by others in terms of social ills, but I will never abide anyone fucking me out of my hard-earned money. I don’t care much about fixing the money problems of others.

Not ignoring other posts...just typing on iPhone. Gonna probably be busy and traveling a lot for the next few days, too.

[Edited on August 30, 2018 at 11:51 PM. Reason : ]

8/30/2018 11:48:43 PM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"but I will never abide anyone fucking me out of my hard-earned money"


But you already are being fucked out of your hard earned money. Just not by the people you think you are. The entirety of your labor is extracted for the profit of multi-millionaires and billionaires who then deprive you of the basic necessities needed to live a dignified life.

You had to pay to go to college just to carve out a respectable life, and if I remember correctly, you served. Which means your actual physical life was put into jeopardy to protect the foreign investments of some asshole plutocrat(s) who don't give a shit if you (or people like you) live or die so long as you hold the line and secure overseas investments and topple foreign governments in order to secure their bottom line. And they also think you and people like you are all simple minded idiots who will sacrifice your life for their profits just so long as they wave a flag in your face and put a couple of shiny buttons on your fatigues.

And thousands of other servicemen are played for chumps in the exact same way. And many of them probably came from the same rural and poverty stricken pockets that you seem to be familiar with. And they have to do this just for the opportunity to one day own a camaro or some equally frivolous piece of shit. That's their reward for a lifetime of labor and service.

Buddy, I got news for you. It ain't the poor people who are fucking you out of your hard earned money.

8/31/2018 12:51:08 AM

TerdFerguson
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^^If you still work in the defense industries, on government contracts I’m assuming, I’d argue YOU are the one pilfering OUR hard-earned money.

8/31/2018 5:54:29 AM

adultswim
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^
Nah, only if he's an owner. If he's a worker, he's being exploited the same as the rest of us.

8/31/2018 9:53:14 AM

TerdFerguson
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You’re probably right.

But there is still something problematic about someone working in an industry that is:

-almost entirely supported by government contracts
-the largest source of non-competitive contracts across all government
-routinely loses track of 100s of millions of taxpayer dollars with no explanation

Accusing other people of stealing his money in the form of taxes.

None of the above is TheDuke or his company’s fault, but it is delusional to try and position yourself as some kind “Maker” (rather than a “taker”) if that’s the industry you’re pulling wages in.

8/31/2018 12:04:34 PM

adultswim
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Salazar wins in NY.

Cuomo remains scumlord.

9/14/2018 4:38:09 PM

rwoody
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Fucking Feinstein tried to hold back these sexual assault allegations. Always stepping on their own toes....

9/14/2018 5:58:15 PM

dtownral
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the senate yesterday voted 93-7 to approve a $674B defense budget bill, the largest military budget since the height of the iraq war, a nearly $20B increase

no democrats voted against it

the no votes were: Paul, Toomey, Sasse, Lee, Flake, Sanders

9/19/2018 3:08:37 PM

TerdFerguson
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We gotta keep our jobs programs afloat bruv.

9/19/2018 3:17:16 PM

stowaway
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or they can't be seen as not supporting the military industrial complex

edit: also lets them hammer Trump/Republicans for the huge increase in the deficit.

[Edited on September 19, 2018 at 3:42 PM. Reason : dasf ]

9/19/2018 3:41:11 PM

adultswim
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^
that's a very bad excuse for increasing funding for violent imperialism

the reality is dems are bad people, just not quite as bad as republicans

[Edited on September 19, 2018 at 3:45 PM. Reason : .]

9/19/2018 3:44:19 PM

Bullet
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Quote :
"the reality is demsalmost all politicians are bad people"


[Edited on September 19, 2018 at 3:46 PM. Reason : ]

9/19/2018 3:46:20 PM

stowaway
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^^ agreed, but look at how shitty their platform and message has been. When situations like this come up they are in a lose lose scenario with regard to potential swing voters. It's way too easy to hammer them for not supporting the troops and they have never come up with a viable response that the collective dumbasses of America will believe made it the right thing to do. We spend way the hell too much with the only justifiable thought is potentially fighting advanced opponents on multiple fronts. In a situation like that it's ww3 and we all lose.

9/19/2018 8:16:45 PM

dtownral
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Trying to win swing voters is a losing strategy

9/19/2018 9:17:20 PM

bdmazur
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Best way to support troops is not send them off to die. So being anti-military is being pro-troops.

But war mongers don't see it that way, and have somehow convinced the voting populace to be on their side.

9/20/2018 2:05:31 PM

dtownral
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https://thehill.com/homenews/house/408251-orourke-defends-cruz-after-protesters-heckle-senator-at-restaurant

Democrats are so bad at this

9/25/2018 7:13:25 PM

dtownral
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Poll: Amid Kavanaugh Confirmation Battle, Democratic Enthusiasm Edge Evaporates

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/03/654015874/poll-amid-kavanaugh-confirmation-battle-democratic-enthusiasm-edge-evaporates

womp womp

10/3/2018 3:34:17 PM

rjrumfel
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I think if DiFi would have released this information when she found it, it could have potentially been more damaging than releasing it at the last minute. It wouldn't have looked so much like a political hit piece than someone who actually cares about the abuse of women.

I'm sure DiFi legitimately cares about the abuse of women, but it at least looks like she put political gamesmanship before womens' issues here. I'm sure everybody thinks I'm wrong, but there are a lot of people in the country that see it this way, which could explain ^

10/3/2018 3:57:44 PM

bubster5041
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Also, there was no way that a contentious supreme court nomination was not going to raise enthusiasm on both sides. It had more potential energy on the right though because it was a little depressed from two years of Trump.

10/3/2018 4:43:21 PM

dtownral
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without this stuff becoming a hot button late issue i don't think you would see the same republican energy. republicans feed on things becoming culture wars, and by introducing this at the last minute democrats tee'd it up perfectly for republicans to make it a culture war.

10/3/2018 4:47:22 PM

TerdFerguson
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Introducing the assault allegations at the last minute? Weren't their hands tied due to the victims not being sure about coming forward?

I have an extremely hard time blaming Dems for anything that has gone down around the Kavanaugh nomination.

10/3/2018 5:10:16 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"I think if DiFi would have released this information when she found it, it could have potentially been more damaging than releasing it at the last minute. It wouldn't have looked so much like a political hit piece than someone who actually cares about the abuse of women.

I'm sure DiFi legitimately cares about the abuse of women, but it at least looks like she put political gamesmanship before womens' issues here. I'm sure everybody thinks I'm wrong, but there are a lot of people in the country that see it this way, which could explain "


she was asked to keep it confidential by the person who was assaulted

10/3/2018 6:02:14 PM

adultswim
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lol

https://splinternews.com/whats-up-with-chuck-schumers-brain-1829475865

10/3/2018 6:09:22 PM

dtownral
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^^ ... and then someone from her staff leaked it last minute

10/3/2018 7:31:44 PM

bbehe

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^^ It's actually super smart of him to restore the filibuster for SCOTUS. It allows some breathing room for red state dems, and if the dems get the WH in 2020, they can always change the rule back.



[Edited on October 3, 2018 at 8:24 PM. Reason : a]

10/3/2018 8:23:37 PM

rjrumfel
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^^ "leaked"

10/3/2018 8:32:41 PM

adultswim
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This is how it's done:

https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018/status/1047567077463248896

10/4/2018 12:37:05 PM

HCH
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Quote :
"There are people drinking PBR from red Solo cups outside Mitch McConnell’s house at this early hour. They are chanting “I like beer.”"


This is the right way to protest and actually get people on your side.

10/5/2018 10:37:54 AM

dtownral
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Can't even get all democrats to vote against kavanaugh

10/5/2018 4:22:03 PM

JesusHChrist
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Joe Manchin should be catapulted into the ocean.

10/6/2018 12:44:56 AM

Shrike
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Really? Y'all are mad at Democrats and Joe Manchin over this? Why should he lose his seat because liberals can't do math? The only reason the confirmation process took even this long is because Trump managed to outdo even himself picking terrible people for important jobs. The time to stop Kavanaugh's confirmation was 23 months ago.

10/6/2018 10:21:25 AM

synapse
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Elections have consequences

Fuck the DNC

10/6/2018 10:33:23 AM

rjrumfel
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I don't think all of these protests are doing anybody any good, except for maybe the protesters themselves - I'm sure it makes them feel better, like they're doing some good while releasing some of their emotions.

But I think they are just hardening the GOP base. I mean look at the Kavanaugh debacle. How much time, energy, tv time, and even money, was spent trying to derail the guy, and even though he obviously lied about several things on the stand, he was still confirmed. All that mess did was knock the Democrats down a few pegs in the mid term polls.

All these people getting rowdy and protesting - their time would be better spent canvassing neighborhoods and reaching out to people whose mind might be changed. Rattling some old 70 year old sign holder isn't helping anything.

10/8/2018 1:16:36 PM

dtownral
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energized volunteers and good ground games go hand-in-hand with protests

10/8/2018 1:47:22 PM

thegoodlife3
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“sorry guys, there’s nothing we can do that won’t energize Republicans. might as well just shut it all down”

10/8/2018 1:54:15 PM

adultswim
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^^^
https://qz.com/901411/political-protests-are-effective-but-not-for-the-reason-you-think/

Quote :
"A clever analysis (pdf) by economists from Harvard University and Stockholm University finds that protests do in fact have a major influence on politics, just not in the way you might think. Their research shows that protest does not work because big crowds send a signal to policy-makers—rather, it’s because protests get people politically activated."

10/8/2018 2:34:21 PM

thegoodlife3
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it’s also dumb to assume that those protesting aren’t also canvassing

10/8/2018 3:33:47 PM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"Really? Y'all are mad at Democrats and Joe Manchin over this?"


What's the point of voting for Democrats if they vote with Republicans?

Quote :
" Why should he lose his seat...?"


Because he votes with Republicans



Be the opposing party. It's a pretty simple ask. Manchin gave Collins the political cover to do what she was always going to do (because she's a Republican).

Fire him into the sun yesterday.

How are you still so blind to what is happening? Why are you still clinging on to the norms and procedural processes that your political adversaries are dismantling right in front of your eyes? The right is systematically gutting the protections and democratic safeguards of every single branch of government and you still want to play by the same rules even as they turn the table over.

10/8/2018 7:02:53 PM

Shrike
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Didn't Manchin announce last? That was always going to be the case. He wasn't going to be the decisive vote to confirm Kavanaugh, if Collins had found some way to 'no', he would have to.

As to norms, the one that's been newly established here is that SCOTUS nominees only get confirmed when the Senate and WH is held by the same party. That's the new rule we have to play by. Manchin needs to keep his seat (for now), even if that means voting with Republicans sometimes, when it's not actually changing the outcome.

10/9/2018 9:01:11 AM

rwoody
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No he announced in the morning and Trump's crew still shit on him. They were gonna shit on him no matter what he did.

You say he would have changed his vote if it was decisive, but it was decisive, it passes 50-48.

Granted the 50th rep vote may have been back Sunday, but thats 24 hours more to try something, anything

Also, how in the world is it a point in his favor that he votes based on how the wind blows??

10/9/2018 9:14:08 AM

Shrike
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Gonna need to see the receipts on that, everything I've read shows him announcing last.

And it doesn't say anything about him, other than he votes the way he needs to remain a Democrat in West Virginia. Do I wish we didn't have a system that gave states which should be national parks disproportionate federal power? Sure, but until we do, Democrats like Manchin are necessary if you ever want to hold the Senate long term.

10/9/2018 9:25:05 AM

rwoody
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Announced was incorrect, but he had decided. Collins had prob already decided too I suppose.

Also he voted yes on cloture which should have been the end of "announcements"

It's clear he is playing the middle which seems like it should be unacceptable to voters of either party. If he was willing to vote either way then he basically has no position. And that's a best case. We have zero evidence he would have noted differently without Collins.

10/9/2018 10:38:14 AM

JesusHChrist
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I can't imagine the brain-rot that is required to think that getting a member of the opposing party to vote against her party is the only way to get your own party member to fall in line.

Quote :
"it doesn't say anything about him, other than he votes the way he needs to remain a Democrat in West Virginia"


You mean, like voting as a Republican? What's the fucking point of having him, then? Why even bother pressing the Republicans and playing offense when you've got Manchin in the backfield scoring own-goals all goddamn game?

Quote :
"Manchin needs to keep his seat (for now), even if that means voting with Republicans sometimes, when it's not actually changing the outcome."


If Manchin announced his decision early to vote No, it would have forced Collins to be the deciding vote and THEN you can force her hand. By weasling out he makes it impossible for Democrats to play offense like you are suggesting.

Launch him into a brick wall


[Edited on October 9, 2018 at 1:43 PM. Reason : ]

10/9/2018 1:42:49 PM

dtownral
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democrats are going to confirm another group of judges for republicans:


Dems forced to choose between campaigning or judicial fights
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/11/democrats-trump-judges-midterms-890257


[Edited on October 12, 2018 at 8:54 AM. Reason : .]

10/12/2018 8:53:53 AM

moron
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^ from what i've seen the dems could have left 1 person behind to object, forcing all the republicans to come back to vote, but did not do this.

10/12/2018 1:29:19 PM

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