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 Message Boards » » "Democrat party credibility watch" Thread? Page 1 ... 39 40 41 42 [43] 44, Prev Next  
UJustWait84
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Of COURSE he should be impeached/removed. She's absolutely doing the 'right' thing by bringing it up, but everyone knows it's not going to happen. I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong, but 20% of the country is actually proud of what happened yesterday.

1/7/2021 5:34:39 PM

rwoody
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But the only person standing in the way of impeachment is Pelosi. She is the one that determines if it happens or not.

1/7/2021 5:42:59 PM

UJustWait84
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If she could wave a magic wand and have him impeached today and removed before Monday, I'm pretty sure she would use it. Then again, she's a self-serving politician, so who am I kidding?

1/7/2021 6:01:14 PM

rwoody
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Removed is outside of her powers, but she could easily have him impeached tomorrow if she wanted.*

*the vote might be close but I bet she could find enough

1/7/2021 6:17:03 PM

A Tanzarian
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Quote :
"Complete embarrassing refusal to govern"


This is going to be an incoherent rant, but...

I know it's fun to pick on Democrats since they're the ones with some semblance of reasonableness. But the political necessity of constructing a big tent to counter the Republican's hardened minority makes the Democratic Party totally incapable of making hard choices on significant issues. Any such choice would splinter the Democratic coalition. So here we sit with the choice of doing nothing or following Republicans to batshit crazytown.

As a practical matter, meh, whatever. What's Congress going to do? Trump isn't going to sign anything. He's not going to be impeached. I don't know the story behind Trump's statement that he'll peacefully transfer power (even though he's the greatest President ever and was totally robbed), but I imagine it's enough to stave off a 25th amendment removal of power. The Senate should be confirming the incoming cabinet but with Republican's still in charge waiting until Warnock and Ossoff are sworn in is probably the smart move.

As a matter of optics and leadership, what an unbelievable failure to call a recess and vacate the building. The executive is crumbling and the legislature decides now is a good time to take a break? WTF? Who is in charge of our country right now? If the Republic has been lost, it wasn't lost when the Trump horde invaded the Capital. It was lost the next day when our elected leadership packed up and went home.

I guess none of this should be a surprise since our elite classes (political, social and economic) have totally failed. Infrastructure isn't being built or maintained. There's little planning for future economic, geopolitical and environmental changes. There's no support for those impacted by anything, whether it be buggy-whip plant closure, offshoring or global pandemic. Elon Musk must want Mars as the ultimate hermitage since he doesn't seem to give a shit about anyone here on Earth. Cool cars tho. Can't have PPE because it might trim this year's profit by a few tenths of a percent. Hey look, another pledge from Apple to stop using indentured labor (they really mean it this time). At least essential workers professional sports leagues have access to the types of rapid testing that allows them to continue working in a reasonably safe manner. And, of course, I'm thankful to Jeff Bezos for my job driving an Amazon branded truck to deliver Amazon packages while wearing an Amazon uniform. It's a contract job--I don't actually work directly for Amazon and there aren't any health or insurance benefits--but at least I have the flexibility to pursue my passion of taxiing strangers with my personal vehicle.

These people have long abandoned basic civic obligation, much less some larger sense of noblesse oblige. Long live the cult of toxic meritocracy I guess.

Carry on.

[/rant]

1/7/2021 6:26:46 PM

StTexan
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You know things are bad in the US when ujustwait is the person that makes more sense*

*on this page

1/7/2021 6:32:48 PM

rwoody
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^^I agree with 95% of that except I don't think impeachment will fracture anything or hurt any Dem representative. Pelosi is afraid of doing something bc it's harder to spin and run attack ads on doing nothing. Shes afraid of a theoretical harm to the party that I don't think is backed up by recent history. She also personally feels no pressure to act bc she is unfortunately primary proof.

And I'm hitting Pelosi bc she holds the most power, but hoyer, Jeffries, Schumer etc are also culpable

1/7/2021 6:41:49 PM

A Tanzarian
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I have no doubt the House could impeach Trump though it won't go anywhere in the Senate. All it takes is political capital and congressional bandwidth that can't be spent on other priorities. What are you willing to give up to make sure Trump is impeached?

1/8/2021 12:20:01 AM

HaLo
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It’s important IMO to have a formal rebuke of this behavior so that there is a precedent for the future.

1/8/2021 12:31:43 AM

qntmfred
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It also disqualifies him from running again.

1/8/2021 12:52:38 AM

A Tanzarian
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^ If he's convicted in the Senate, correct?

Obviously, I'm feeling pretty cynical at the moment. I'm just not convinced the rest of America is as outraged as they say they are.

1/8/2021 1:05:32 AM

HaLo
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^technically once he is convicted and removed from office there is a separate vote on disqualifying him from future federal office

[Edited on January 8, 2021 at 1:30 AM. Reason : .]

1/8/2021 1:25:47 AM

rwoody
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Quote :
". All it takes is political capital and congressional bandwidth that can't be spent on other priorities"


Well considering congress just recessed, I don't think the latter concern is an issue

[Edited on January 8, 2021 at 7:14 AM. Reason : E]

1/8/2021 7:13:23 AM

qntmfred
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Quote :
"^ If he's convicted in the Senate, correct?"


https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-2/section-4/judgment-removal-and-disqualification

Quote :
"Unlike removal, disqualification from office is a discretionary judgment, and there is no explicit constitutional linkage to the two-thirds vote on conviction. Although an argument can be made that disqualification should nonetheless require a two-thirds vote, the Senate has determined that disqualification may be accomplished by a simple majority vote"

1/8/2021 1:12:41 PM

A Tanzarian
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Disqualification doesn't require 2/3 vote but still seems like it would require a successful conviction first. Doesn't make sense to ban someone from holding office but not actually remove them.

1/8/2021 2:50:32 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"The House will try to UC a resolution Monday calling for Pence to replace Trump under the 25th amendment.

Then, try to pass the 25th amendment resolution Tuesday if they presumably don't get UC.

Then, "we will proceed with bringing impeachment resolution to the floor.""


My God how do they even come up with this shit

1/10/2021 8:10:53 PM

StTexan
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^^i completely disagree. 9 days to go, I am not gungho like some on here about removing him ASAP. But I definitely want him disqualified, because there are enough stupid ppl to vote for him again in 2024

1/11/2021 12:58:15 AM

rwoody
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Quote :
"vote for him again in 2024"


Facepalm

1/11/2021 7:53:01 AM

A Tanzarian
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Assuming impeachment and conviction are successful, how would that impact Trump's criminal liability?

1/11/2021 2:20:55 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Per this story, @BernieSanders has been talking to Biden about the next stimulus package including "an emergency universal health care program, so that anyone can get medical treatment during the pandemic, whether they currently have insurance or not." https://t.co/jZP0I6Y52D"

1/12/2021 6:33:19 PM

thegoodlife3
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after breaking viewing records on twitch during simpler times last year, AOC got over 100k live views after 11 pm during her incredible Instagram Live last night

it’s so obvious that she’s the future and it’d be rather smart for leadership to invest in her and her coalition

1/13/2021 10:02:54 AM

daaave
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it definitely would be if leadership wanted the same things as us

1/13/2021 12:16:20 PM

JesusHChrist
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^The thing about this insurrection attempt that I find very interesting, in somewhat marxist terms:

How open handed Corporate America is in renouncing their dollars to Trump and Republican lawmakers who supported what happened on the 6th. It is a coordinated and concerted effort on the part of the bourgeoisie to assert control over the situation. It feels like Corporate America's last-ditch attempt to assert control over a situation that they have allowed to spiral steadily for 4 years out of hand. They feel it necessary to use a tool that they normally wish to keep in the shadows because they feel they have no other choice. I find it interesting that they are trying maintain control even as the nativisits/nationalists/fascists they allowed in their ranks in order to avoid paying taxes are demonstrating that they are willing to seize power and operate without their support. It really is quite remarkable that within a week, every major corporation in America just openly flouted that they will withhold their contributions to politician who goes against their will. This is a power struggle between Corporate America and the radical-right.

GOP members are caught in a pickle entirely of their own making: Do they follow the will of their donors or do they follow the will of their voters who will literally murder them





[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 2:04 PM. Reason : ]

1/13/2021 1:49:45 PM

daaave
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Yeah it's very interesting. The GOP needs the radical right to stay in power, but at the same time the radical right is causing national embarrassment and making things difficult for the actual power players.

There are only two solutions for corporate America - Republicans de-radicalizing their base, or Democrats sliding to the right. I know which one I'm banking on.

[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 2:41 PM. Reason : .]

1/13/2021 2:40:15 PM

JesusHChrist
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JP Morgan Chase to Mitch McConnel: You idiot, your job is to get the rubes angry enough to vote for you so we can get those tax-cuts, not angry enough to overthrow you!

1/13/2021 2:50:36 PM

daaave
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Class analysis aside, they did succeed in making their congressmembers scared of them and that makes me a little jealous

1/13/2021 3:00:11 PM

JesusHChrist
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it's so fucking frustrating

1/13/2021 3:12:31 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Biden will seek a deal with Republicans on another round of Covid-19 relief after taking office, rather than attempting to ram a package through without their support https://t.co/hY69XKk7CJ"


Cool

1/13/2021 4:22:09 PM

qntmfred
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I will not be surprised if such an approach ends up as another lucy pulls the football away, but I feel it's worth a try at the beginning of a new administration. our country desperately needs a functional government that can work together. if passing additional pandemic relief can help kick-start a new era of bipartisanship, it could help us begin to move away from the extreme partisan everything, all the time mode that we have been in the last decade.

1/13/2021 4:29:32 PM

JesusHChrist
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^Republicans can display their commitment to bipartisanship by expelling and prosecuting members of their own party who just attempted to overthrow the government.

I'm sorry, you don't get to be a member of congress of a government you just tried to overturn.

1/13/2021 4:38:19 PM

daaave
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I understand the desire to have cooperation, but if we define it within the boundaries of our legislature, we're conceding to a bi-partisanship that resides far to the right of most Americans. It's a concession to the power of money and tarnishes whatever level of democracy we have.

[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

1/13/2021 4:38:52 PM

GrumpyGOP
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I'm fine with offering to cooperate, on the two conditions that:

1) We remember that compromise doesn't mean giving up the farm, especially when you have the stronger position, and
2) The clock is ticking for a whole lot of reasons, so they don't get to dick around forever. If we can't make a bipartisan deal quickly, break out reconciliation and every other tool in the chest.

There's long-term value in occasionally offering the olive branch, but it should be a small branch, offered with an iron glove.

1/13/2021 5:29:41 PM

TerdFerguson
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Some of the GOP has already shown interest in $2000 checks and some other provisions that didn’t make it into the last COVID bill. The GOP also seems to be in disarray as they splinter into the trump camp or the McConnell camp or whatever else. By offering to cooperate you accomplish a number of things:

-continue splintering their caucus by introducing a wedge issue. The more splintered they are the the less power McConnell has and the less likely they are to fall back into lockstep obstruction.
-if they immediately fall into lockstep obstruction, you get to hammer away at how much the GOP hates working people, how much it hates America for wanting the economy to fail, how they are all just rubber stamps for McConnell/McCarthy, etc.
-you mitigate the “radical sochulist Dems are shoving this bill down our throat” arguments, which you know are imminent.

1/13/2021 5:51:57 PM

rwoody
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$1400 checks is such a typical own goal

1/14/2021 5:10:57 PM

UJustWait84
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I live in CA, so I'm not getting shit

1/14/2021 6:36:14 PM

synapse
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I don't follow

1/14/2021 10:55:25 PM

UJustWait84
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I *think* rwoody is bitching about 2k stimulus checks "not being enough" to lift a huge swath of the nation out of financial ruin DUE TO COVID?

In which case, I agree; however, I don't see how it's an "own goal"

1/15/2021 1:59:49 AM

dmspack
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the argument is "you promised us $2000, this is $1400...which is definitely not $2000".

and yeah, $600 + $1400 = $2000. but $2000 would've been an obvious thing for Dems to do. and they're already dialing it back to $1400. i can see why people are viewing it as a cop out.

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 7:02 AM. Reason : f]

1/15/2021 6:59:39 AM

rwoody
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^yes. Dems have been promising "$2000 checks" for weeks, so when they give $1400 many people are going to be confused and feel lied to. It's an own goal bc they run shit and could easily just give the $2k.



[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 8:27 AM. Reason : E]

1/15/2021 8:09:56 AM

The Coz
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$600 + $1400 is still $2000, according to my maths, the very specific political advert above notwithstanding. Warnock isn't even seated yet.

1/15/2021 9:57:46 AM

qntmfred
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As the leading supporter of cash relief on this site, I see no problem with the $1400 checks. From a policy perspective, it represents an immediate follow-through on injecting X dollars into the economy through direct payments to all Americans.

I feel like it's the very online folks who make it their whole personality to complain about everything anybody and everybody does are the majority of the voices pushing this. I know we're all skeptical of everybody in politics, but at some point you have to stop being such a conspiracy theorist and when somebody does something good, just let it be a good thing.

p.s. I think there will be more fiscal relief coming for normal Americans, so just chill out and let's see what happens in the first 100 days

1/15/2021 10:03:48 AM

daaave
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We already got $1800 though. $2000-($1200+$600)=$200. And then with all the extra unemployment...we really should be paying them back when you think about it!

Quote :
"I feel like it's the very online folks who make it their whole personality to complain about everything anybody and everybody does are the majority of the voices pushing this. I know we're all skeptical of everybody in politics, but at some point you have to stop being such a conspiracy theorist and when somebody does something good, just let it be a good thing."


They said multiple times "$2000 checks", *after* the $600 checks were sent out. Holding them to their pledge is the right thing to do.

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 10:26 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2021 10:21:43 AM

qntmfred
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I thought we care more about policy than politics over here?

if you want to double-down on semantics, Biden said multiple times that $600 was a down payment on further relief. That means more to come later.

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 10:52 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2021 10:49:07 AM

dmspack
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^^ made the point better than me

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 11:04 AM. Reason : Nvm]

1/15/2021 11:02:48 AM

daaave
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^^Then maybe he, Kamala, Ossoff, Warnock, and Harris shouldn't have muddy-ed the waters and continually used the phrasing "$2000 checks". It doesn't seem like anyone here has heard him use the phrase "down payment".

Regardless, $2000 is much less than what people are owed and it's okay to ask for it.

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 11:06 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2021 11:04:28 AM

dmspack
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With the $1400 coming like a month after the $600 I think it’s plenty reasonable for people to view these as two separate packages rather than all part of the same or the first being a down payment on the second (because they are separate). For the people depending on this to keep up with their regular bills, I see why they would feel lied to. The time between the payments is significant and matters. Some people still haven’t gotten their $600. We can debate what was actually meant by “$2000 checks” but the reality is, there was an expectation established by the Dems messaging in the run offs and that expectation is not gonna be met.

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 11:17 AM. Reason : A]

1/15/2021 11:15:47 AM

A Tanzarian
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What other things in the bill do you like/not like?

1/15/2021 11:18:22 AM

qntmfred
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Quote :
"Then maybe he, Kamala, Ossoff, Warnock, and Harris shouldn't have muddy-ed the waters"


If I get cookies for my kids and their mom says they can each have 2 cookies and I say oh come on, they can have 5 cookies but mom says 2 is enough and then half an hour later mom gets voted out of office and I say to my kids ok here's the rest of your cookies but they say but you said I could have 5 cookies, this is only 3...I'd throw the cookies in the trash. don't be childish.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-02/biden-endorses-908-billion-covid-relief-plan-as-down-payment



Quote :
"Regardless, $2000 is much less than what people are owed and it's okay to ask for it."


Agreed. But let's not kneecap the new administration before they've even started for no reason when they've made it clear that they are going to move forward quickly to address both the medical and financial impacts of covid

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 11:31 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2021 11:23:30 AM

qntmfred
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you want a legitimate cash relief gripe? I want to know why Kamala stopped talking about $2k/month pandemic relief once she got the VP spot

https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1289929256600866817

1/15/2021 11:35:12 AM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
" If I get cookies for my kids and their mom says they can each have 2 cookies and I say oh come on, they can have 5 cookies but mom says 2 is enough and then half an hour later mom gets voted out of office and I say to my kids ok here's the rest of your cookies but they say but you said I could have 5 cookies, this is only 3...I'd throw the cookies in the trash. don't be childish."


Depends.. Are those extra cookies the difference between keeping their shelter and homelessness?

1/15/2021 11:36:36 AM

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