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wahoowa
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AMZN stock has an underlying basis for its value based on company results. So although a stock is technically an electronic asset similar to bitcoin there are fundamentals that can explain its value (profit, cash, growth, etc.). Poor comparison because bitcoin has none of that.

The point Im trying to make is that bitcoin is simply gambling that demand will always increase because there is no underlying basis that the value depends on. Great when that demand is going up but could be catastrophic when demand drops. Not saying you shouldnt gamble for some fun but at this point I would be extremely concerned about buying any material quantities of bitcoin at these prices.

[Edited on December 7, 2017 at 3:43 PM. Reason : a]

12/7/2017 3:41:01 PM

tulsigabbard
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what the fuck is going on. 3 months ago i decided it was prolly too late to join the party. its gone up 4x since then.

12/7/2017 7:47:30 PM

PackBacker
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Quote :
"So although a stock is technically an electronic asset
"


A stock is partial ownership of the company in reality. While it is electronic these days, you are actually buying the rights to the profits of that company.

There is no comparison between shares of a publicly traded company and bitcoin.

12/7/2017 8:13:59 PM

EuroTitToss
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Quote :
"2) Those things won't be solved."


I seriously doubt it. We're 8 years in and the proposed solutions seem weak as hell and they're not even getting support from the community. I'm also not really impressed by some altcoins that seem to be tweaking a few numbers slightly and then acting like they've solved it. I agree that none of that limits the value.

I would actually argue with the unbounded part now.

Even if you dumped tens of thousands of dollars in at this point, you won't becoming a millionaire unless the market cap surpasses all the money in the world. It was certainly a lot easier when this thread started.

12/7/2017 9:13:29 PM

CaelNCSU
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Quote :
"There is no comparison between shares of a publicly traded company and bitcoin.

"


There is a market, the market sets a price. In a lot of companies today there is no dividend, you are buying the company because of the brand--TSLA being a perfect example.

There is some expected value calculation: "I think there is a 1% change it could go to $1000, a 49% chance it goes up $500, and a 50% chance it loses 50%." You weigh all those things based mostly on feel, math, market knowledge and make the purchase.

A market cap of $3 trillion, the size of the .com bubble, would be $176,470 a bitcoin. That is within the realm of possibility, given we've seen bubbles that big before. Even if the chance is 1% it's still part of the overall decision to buy/sell/hold.

12/7/2017 9:56:54 PM

tulsigabbard
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Is anyone mining? any recs on good/easy pools? I heard minergate is a ripoff.

12/7/2017 10:06:55 PM

Dentaldamn
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Wake me up when I can retire.

12/8/2017 12:12:32 AM

eleusis
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am I crazy to want to get out of this bitcoin right now? I bought in around $750 and feel like this thing could implode any minute.

12/8/2017 8:00:53 AM

qntmfred
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Yeah but it's gonna go to 100k first right

12/8/2017 10:03:14 AM

CaelNCSU
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"Do I need the money now? What would the impact be if it dropped 90%?"

12/8/2017 10:45:31 AM

dtownral
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i just put my year end bonus into a mix of bitcoin, ethereum, and litecoin

also, there used to be a function on reddit where you could tip people btc bits. i just remembered and found them and they are now worth $112, lol.


[Edited on December 8, 2017 at 11:37 AM. Reason : .]

12/8/2017 11:35:13 AM

dtownral
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what's the easiest way to download your bitcoins from coinbase?

12/8/2017 11:47:29 AM

Wickerman
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Install a wallet on your PC. Electrum is a good option. Send the BTC to your Electrum wallet. The best option is to buy a hardware wallet such as the Ledger Nano S.

12/8/2017 3:41:18 PM

CaelNCSU
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Do you prefer the ledger over the trezor?

12/8/2017 9:56:19 PM

Wickerman
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I haven't used the Trezor but I do like the Ledger. The only issue with the Ledger is that you can have only 4 types of wallets installed at a time.

12/8/2017 11:09:42 PM

KeB
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Litecoin shot up today. Close to doubling everyone's money in one day

12/9/2017 12:09:06 AM

Dentaldamn
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Litecoin run is impressive.

[Edited on December 9, 2017 at 12:10 AM. Reason : T]

12/9/2017 12:10:10 AM

PackBacker
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Quote :
" In a lot of companies today there is no dividend, you are buying the company because of the brand--TSLA being a perfect example. "


No, you are buying the stock because of earnings or the potential for future earnings.

A public company must do something with its earnings....invest in growth, pay a dividend, acquisition, or buy back stock. Either way, free cash/earnings must returned to shareholders in some form.

Bitcoin's price does not correlate to any earnings. It is speculation. "Growth companies" are as well to a certain extent, but you can at least based the value on fundamentals of the company. Even non profitable companies can be measured through financial statements for hopes of future profitability

I am not against investing in cryptocurrency, but just pointing out its not the same as buying stock...and only invest what you're willing to lose. There is no way to come up with a "reasonable value" based on any fundamental analysis of bitcoin since it produces no profits. Same with gold and any other commodity, really

[Edited on December 9, 2017 at 12:34 AM. Reason : ]

12/9/2017 12:26:31 AM

CaelNCSU
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Found this on trezor: https://medium.com/@Zero404Cool/trezor-security-glitches-reveal-your-private-keys-761eeab03ff8

Quote :
"There is absolutely nothing that Trezor can do about it. They can’t replace all existing hardware. And the really bad news is that this also applies to Keepkey and to the upcoming Trezor v2?—?it also uses similar STMicroelectronics chip!"

12/9/2017 8:13:18 AM

TreeTwista10
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So many people looking like dumbasses early ITT.

12/9/2017 2:57:24 PM

Grandmaster
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Quote :
"Grandmaster

really the only thing this currency had going for it was the pseudo-anonymous aspect and the press from shit such as the ability to purchase drugs from Silk Road. Once they closed their doors to new members, it served as a ball peen hammer to bitcoin's coffin. The recent hax just introduced a pressurized nail gun into the equation.

6/21/2011 1:28:32 AM"


/r/iamverysmart

12/9/2017 3:15:03 PM

CaelNCSU
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Seriously, fuck all these wildfires and getting ash on my plane

I did not handle this week very well. I responded to half my meeting requests, "I'm not going to your meetings anymore".

[Edited on December 9, 2017 at 3:28 PM. Reason : a]

12/9/2017 3:25:43 PM

EuroTitToss
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^^^Yea anyone who posted early ITT and now isn't posting from their private jet.

12/9/2017 6:14:13 PM

dtownral
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i still don't understand why so many "buy gold, boycott fiat currencies!" people went hard into bitcoin

bitcoin isn't issued by a government, but it's still a fiat currency

12/9/2017 7:25:43 PM

CaelNCSU
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^ The first guy from who I bought bitcoin, who I met at cup-a-joe in 2010, was a hard core libertarian who talked about it being the key to freeing us from state control. Most of the early people were hard core into it from that angle. I think it partly comes from libertarian circles and also the nerd cyberpunk scifi. Bitcoin Talk was full of that back in the day.

Part of the irony is that some of the cyberpunk scifi is satire.



[Edited on December 9, 2017 at 7:39 PM. Reason : t]

12/9/2017 7:39:04 PM

0EPII1
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Anybody getting this?

https://www.nagaico.com

Safer than the unregulated ones? Would you buy it? 5 days left until IPO ends.

12/9/2017 8:41:13 PM

EuroTitToss
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^Everything about that from the 20 social icons instead of a coherent explanation to the FIND OUT HOW MUCH MONEY YOU CAN MAKE button seem extremely sketchy. Maybe there's something there, but it's not explained.

12/9/2017 9:15:26 PM

Cherokee
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I would avoid that entirely. There is a bit of a bubble scam ongoing with some start-ups offering electronic currency coins (like Bitcoin) in an IPO as opposed to legit shares. That is way too risky for my liking, particularly if it's their own made-up coins as opposed to something like Bitcoin which at least presently has a relatively liquid market and large user base.

It's also funded by a Chinese company and listed in Germany. Depending on the size of their interest, if the Chinese have control over it then effectively the Chinese government lays claim to it which basically means it does anything it wants at any time including scalping profits or rendering it impossible to exchange ownership shares.

That being said, throwing $50 or $100 on it if you typically play the lottery or scratch-offs throughout the year may turn out to be a better investment in that respect, and who knows, maybe it takes off and you get a shitload of money.

Notes regarding the author if this (my) post: I was wrong about Facebook's stock (I presumed it would tank after IPO because they didn't do anything but Zuckerberg proved me wrong dramatically with his business decisions and the stock is pretty solid now). I was also wrong about Bitcoin: I mined a bit back in 2009 and got bored and never did anything with it. As recently as 2-3 years ago, a friend asked me if it was worth throwing $2000 into mining equipment and I told him the currency was a joke and was too risky, blah blah blah. I think it hit $20,000 a coin briefly this week so clearly I was stupid about that one too.

This may help to evaluate: https://thenextweb.com/money/2017/12/08/naga-successfully-launched-an-ico-heres-how-they-did-it/

Edit: Looks like you can't purchase if you're in the United States, a US territory, Singapore or any country on which the United States has placed sanctions (section 3.1 terms & conditions).

[Edited on December 10, 2017 at 11:57 AM. Reason : Just read terms & conditions]

12/10/2017 11:44:12 AM

tulsigabbard
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Ok I have utilities included and spent saturday buying up old computers at yard sales/craiglist to setup mining. People don't know the desktops they are selling have the graphics cards in them. Like moms whose kids were gamers 5 years ago. I'm not going ASIC but I want to mine altcoins which have lower network difficulty. Its basically like going back to 2012 and mining bitcoins with the hope that an altcoin will take off. My small MH/s should be made up for by the fact that I am early in the game for ZCAsh DAsh and monero.

I still don't know how or what I'm building but I'm figuring it out as I go. I spent 150 and got 4 graphics cards with combined 16gb. I'll have 3 computers running this once so it shouldn't cause a noticable shift in power usage for a 50-unit building.

My overhead is zero becuase I get free electricity. Thats the only reason I'm doing this. Why not?

12/10/2017 1:25:57 PM

Cherokee
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With free electricity there is no reason not to mine.

12/11/2017 3:35:03 PM

Cherokee
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Thought you might enjoy this. This machine I think is making him about $15 a day. Just some context regarding how much it takes to get any money, even a small sum like that.

12/11/2017 4:20:34 PM

tulsigabbard
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thats because gpu mining is obsolete with asoc proliferation but the real question is how soon will asic be obsolete? i hear 9nm is here to stay and that r&d cant even do better than that.

12/11/2017 6:32:50 PM

Cherokee
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Asics are dedicated circuit boards basically right?

12/11/2017 10:51:58 PM

tulsigabbard
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[Edited on December 11, 2017 at 11:51 PM. Reason : k]

12/11/2017 11:51:19 PM

Cherokee
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lol

12/12/2017 12:58:26 AM

Wickerman
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Invest $1,200 in Bitconnect and you can make $10 to $15 a day or even more in interest.

https://bitconnect.co/?ref=get2vivek

[Edited on December 12, 2017 at 8:20 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2017 8:19:09 AM

Ribs
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Anybody looked into WGR? I could see that token taking off after their rollout mid-Jan and it getting put on a more accessible exchange. If they marketed it right with the World Cup around the corner, adoption could skyrocket. It's sitting at ~$.20 now.

12/12/2017 10:18:34 AM

dtownral
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with btc futures now existing, should we expect a price correction since it is easier to short futures than currency?

will this cause other people to hedge their positions with other currencies?

12/12/2017 10:57:24 AM

dtownral
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Also, what is the safest way to buy ripple?

12/12/2017 11:01:44 AM

Azaka
///Meh
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I transferred ltc from coinbase into kraken to buy xrp. That was mainly because I was already setup in coinbase and didn't want to link banking info to another site.

Seeing ltc hit 350 is making me regret that though.

I keep thinking there's got to be a correction coming and it just keeps going up.

12/12/2017 2:14:10 PM

moron
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Quote :
"Coinbase on Tuesday halted trading of red-hot litecoin and ether, according to cryptocurrency watcher CoinDesk. The publication tweeted a photo showing Coinbase "temporarily disabled" trades of the two digital coins on its platform. "

http://www.businessinsider.com/coinbase-halts-ether-and-litecoin-trading-2017-12

12/12/2017 2:28:12 PM

tulsigabbard
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whats the significance of that. should i be worried? should i leave coinbase? should i buy more?

12/12/2017 5:27:51 PM

KeB
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^litecoin is up almost 10,000% this year. Bitcoin is up ~2200%

12/12/2017 5:30:12 PM

dtownral
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i think it was temporary, probably from volume during the rise (litecoin got a lot higher than they say it did in that post)

12/12/2017 5:49:12 PM

Azaka
///Meh
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With the rapid increase in trade volume on coinbase/gdax, it's no surprise their infrastructure is always on fire.

12/12/2017 6:40:07 PM

Grandmaster
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I can't help but think they panic because they don't have the means to honor the trades either. That email they sent out the other day too made me think they were laying the groundwork to claim "infrastructure" issues when the bubble pops and everyone dumps.

12/12/2017 7:31:43 PM

moron
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^ it's a market-- people can't sell if there's no buyers

no need to blame infrastructure

12/12/2017 9:53:02 PM

tulsigabbard
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Does anyone have trusted methods of buying altcoin? I'm looking to collect some XRD and CANN

12/13/2017 1:29:14 AM

Azaka
///Meh
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https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/cannabiscoin/#markets

I've never heard of XRD and it's not listed on that site either.

12/13/2017 2:00:27 AM

tulsigabbard
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oop i meant xrp ripple

12/13/2017 2:22:28 AM

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