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 Message Boards » » 2020 Democrat Primaries Page 1 ... 67 68 69 70 [71] 72 73 74, Prev Next  
utowncha
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so whats the point of even addressing them? sounds like they are all simply varying degrees of Earl?

i thought it would be fairly simple to take their vote, not give them anything back, and refrain from telling them to eat ass?



[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 10:07 AM. Reason : clarification: i dont actually care ]

2/13/2020 10:05:28 AM

rwoody
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What you aren't getting is that the Dems are almost definitely NOT getting Duke's vote.

2/13/2020 10:10:26 AM

dtownral
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it's not that it's bad that he has registered as a dem, and if people like him actually end up voting for a dem then great, but doing even the slightest bit to capitulate to voters like him in an effort to encourage their vote is bad. letting them have even a little input into the direction of the party or what things are good or bad or too extreme, etc... is bad.

if telling any of these voters to eat ass prevents them to vote dem, they weren't ever actually going to vote dem and they need to go eat ass. this is the "well i was going to vote against trump, but democrats hurt my feefees so now I'm a raging racist who wants to build a wall and march with nazis to spite them" argument.


[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 10:30 AM. Reason : bel]

2/13/2020 10:22:36 AM

utowncha
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grumpy almost certainly wont vote for trump and duke will probably vote for Vermin Supreme.

neither is even remotely a nazi... neither is rjrumfel. Earl? is on another god damn planet.

i agree they should have no input... Now how many of those pro life democrats are single issue voters? Are they worth any energy?

2/13/2020 10:29:13 AM

dtownral
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put it this way: believing that anyone who doesn't actively vote against trump is a trump supporter isn't a purity test, it's the lowest bar for being a reasonable human

2/13/2020 10:30:00 AM

theDuke866
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Quote :
" That's because there's nothing interesting for you in the R primary.

I'm sure you'll bounce right back"


Well, I haven’t been registered (R) for 4 years, and the only reason I didn’t switch before that was because I was hanging on long enough to vote for someone reasonable in the GOP primary in 2016 (Kasich was the best available).

Furthermore, as I’ve stated before, I voted for more Dems than Republicans last time in 2018. I’m even more hostile to the GOP on the whole than I was then.

Quote :
" He likely wouldn't even vote for Klob in the general. Why would that person voting for in the primary be good? "


No guarantees, but there is an absolutely real likelihood of me voting for her in the general if it gets that far.

But no guarantees—I voted for McCain in the primary, then not in the general. In fact, I went so far as to mail in an absentee ballot from Iraq to specifically write in “no confidence.”

Quote :
" theduke is a trump supporter,"


Quote :
"^ and yes"


You guys have fucking lost it. Absolutely in crazy town.

Even in the extreme case, if Sanders gets the nomination, and I grit my teeth and decide to vote for Trump (also not guaranteed even in that scenario), I am no Trump supporter.

Quote :
" it's not that it's bad that he has registered as a dem, and if people like him actually end up voting for a dem then great, but doing even the slightest bit to capitulate to voters like him in an effort to encourage their vote is bad. letting them have even a little input into the direction of the party or what things are good or bad or too extreme, etc... is bad."


That’s valid. Debatable, but valid.

Quote :
"I f telling any of these voters to eat ass prevents them to vote dem, they weren't ever actually going to vote dem and they need to go eat ass. this is the "well i was going to vote against trump, but democrats hurt my feefees so now I'm a raging racist who wants to build a wall and march with nazis to spite them" argument. "


But every word of that is fucking stupid.

2/13/2020 10:44:29 AM

Exiled
Eyes up here ^^
5880 Posts
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I wouldn't mind people like Duke voting D in the general, but I do take a bit of an issue with him now casting a vote in the primary.

He's not a Democrat, he's just upset that the party he's built has gone to shit. So now instead of actually switching sides he just wants the Democrat party to look more like the part he idealized, and muddy the waters of what actual Democrats' vote their vision of what their party should be.

There should be some kind of clause for inability to vote in primaries if you've switched party affiliation in the current voting cycle.

But whatever, this two party system is broke as fuck anyway.

2/13/2020 10:46:49 AM

rwoody
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^^gone from "very remote" to "real likelihood" for Amy in a week, interesting

Quote :
"decide to vote for Trump (also not guaranteed even in that scenario), I am no Trump supporter."


Hey man guess what if you vote for Trump you are supporting Trump which makes you a Trump supporter.

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 10:51 AM. Reason : E]

2/13/2020 10:51:13 AM

dtownral
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Quote :
"Even in the extreme case, if Sanders gets the nomination, and I grit my teeth and decide to vote for Trump (also not guaranteed even in that scenario), I am no Trump supporter."


lol

totally lost it, absolutely crazy town: people who don't vote against trump are trump supporters

totally sane and not crazy: even if i vote for trump i'm not a trump supporter

2/13/2020 10:59:26 AM

NyM410
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49512 Posts
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I’m all for taking in ANYONE who will help vote Trump out of office, even if they go right back to voting GOP in two years, of course. No need to harass and dogpile them... but also no need to shift policy or ideology to cater to them. The far left wing of the party would blast me for failing purity tests until the cows come home and that’s fine.

But, if you:

1) Vote for Trump; or
2) Don’t vote Democrat in 2020

you are either an explicit or passive Trump supporter

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 11:08 AM. Reason : And you can vote Bernie and then GOP downballot if you think he needs a check]

2/13/2020 11:06:11 AM

synapse
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Quote :
"totally lost it, absolutely crazy town: people who don't vote against trump are trump supporters

totally sane and not crazy: even if i vote for trump i'm not a trump supporter"


lol yup

Quote :
"I voted for more Dems than Republicans last time in 2018"


I should hope so, given who was pulling most of your R's strings in 2018. We'll see what happens later this year!

2/13/2020 11:20:03 AM

daaave
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Warren and Klobuchar standing together to condemn Sanders supporters' vile attacks on culinary union leadership. Solidarity!

2/13/2020 12:04:07 PM

horosho
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Quote :
"totally lost it, absolutely crazy town: people who don't vote against trump are trump supporters

totally sane and not crazy: even if i vote for trump i'm not a trump supporter"

The part democrats have trouble understanding is that most people vote for ideas and policies, not people. When he talks about voting for Trump, he's not thinking about it from the perspective of supporting Trump, he's doing it to support capitalism. A lot of republicans who don't "support" Trump the man will vote Trump and support his campaign in the name of the guns, babies, and capitalism.

Actually that should be the name of a book. Guns, babies, and capitalism

Democrats are a different breed in that you often vote for people or against people instead of policies. You voted for Obama because you supported him. You voted against Trump because you hate him. I'm not saying theres something wrong with voting that way, but you can't project your logic onto people who vote on policy instead of people.

Also explains why democrat voters have strange second choices that don't match policy-wise.

2/13/2020 12:15:58 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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Quote :
"Even... if... I... decide to vote for Trump... I am no Trump supporter."


Aren't you, though?

Quote :
"And you can vote Bernie and then GOP downballot if you think he needs a check"


Or you could just not vote for any presidential candidate, but an affirmative vote for Trump seems like that would clearly make you a Trump supporter.

2/13/2020 12:24:54 PM

daaave
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Duke just likes to err on the side of hurting the poor rather than helping them a bit too much.

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 12:32 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2020 12:31:51 PM

synapse
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tbf he has a number of political priorities:

#1 - look out for #1/his money/his guns
#2 - look out for #1/his money/his guns
#3 - look out for #1/his money/his guns
...

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 12:37 PM. Reason : not sure he's expressed much else lately...maybe he can supplement if i missed one]

2/13/2020 12:36:29 PM

Bullet
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Does anyone really believe any of the candidates will actually take away their guns? Sure, they talk about gun control, but has anyone (besides O'Rourke) actually come out and say or infer that they want to take away guns from citizens?

2/13/2020 12:51:53 PM

moron
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Looks like Bloomberg might take Biden’s former top position at this rate.

I really think Bloomberg would lose to trump though.

2/13/2020 1:00:24 PM

dtownral
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^^No one is going to take your guns, yes lots of people believe they will take your guns

^the democratic party should be disbanded if it let's Bloomberg get the nomination

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 1:01 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2020 1:00:31 PM

daaave
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I think all of them support an assault weapons buyback, but that's it.

2/13/2020 1:00:51 PM

moron
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Early voting starts in North Carolina today

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 1:06 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2020 1:06:12 PM

TreeTwista10
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Whoever I early vote for, just know that doesn't mean I support them

2/13/2020 1:08:12 PM

theDuke866
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It’s more about money than guns, with me.

_______

Again, I don’t expect the Dems to cater to people like me. There’s a strategic case for it, but also against it. In the end, I don’t expect it or feel owed it. Just don’t be surprised if I tell you to get fucked if you tell me to get fucked.

I’m much more in the mood to compromise than I normally would be, too, but the idea that I’m a Trump supporter if I sit home instead of voting for any candidate the Dems choose—explicitly without any regard for gaining my vote—no matter how much I wildly oppose that candidate...that’s fucking insane, and incredibly out of touch.

Trust me, I would [relatively] like to vote Dem this time, and if I’m not fortunate enough for that, then I hope I can sit at home. You don’t get to impose the worst possible candidate on me and then demand that I vote for him. That’s the downside of the strategy of going hard left and motivating the base. I’m the trade off; you guys act like your opponents are morally wrong for opposing you instead of letting you have your cake and eat it too. That’s like banging someone’s sister and then acting like he’s the bad guy for not setting you up with his girlfriend.

2/13/2020 1:25:17 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"A large part of it is also that if the two parties center themselves around Trumpism and Sanders/Warrenism, then that will push me into full-blown nihilism. If my calculus becomes that we are fucked and there is no likely path to recovery, then it becomes a simple matter of strictly looking out for #1...keeping intruders out of my financial accounts and gun safe for however long I remain in America."


So the R's have already centered themselves around Trumpism, there is no debate there. And if the result of the D primary is Sanders (looking like a decent possibility at this point), then your priorities are exactly as you have listed in the quote above that I referenced: looking out for #1, your money, and your guns...or have they changed in the last week?

2/13/2020 1:33:07 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"but the idea that I’m a Trump supporter if I sit home instead of voting for any candidate the Dems choose—explicitly without any regard for gaining my vote—no matter how much I wildly oppose that candidate...that’s fucking insane, and incredibly out of touch."


Goalpost move there. Discussion above is based on your comment "Even... if... I... decide to vote for Trump... I am no Trump supporter"...calling it false and instead saying that (explicitly) makes you a Trump supporter.

The implicit argument that has been made before concerning you sitting out 2016(ok and a little above), but that's not what we're talking about lately.

2/13/2020 1:35:10 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"the idea that I’m a Trump supporter if I sit home instead of voting for any candidate the Dems choose—e"


So now you're NOT willing to vote for Trump? How could anyone even court you, you seem super wishy washy. Last week it was a huge stretch to vote for Amy now it's likely. This morning you'd vote for Trump now you'll just stay home.

2/13/2020 1:37:09 PM

theDuke866
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^^^Kind of the other way around—my priorities will become basically exclusively that: my own near-term self-interest, IF it appears that the country is irredeemably locked into a path towards destruction.

Those are always certainly priorities I give considerable weight towards, but not exclusively (hence why I have so vehemently opposed Trump). I’m saying that on the foreseeable horizon now is a point at which I lose faith so thoroughly in the future of America that I just cast my lot towards nihilism and pure, naked, near-term self-interest. Look out for #1 until I’m in a position to cash out and leave. That’s the point at which my calculus completely changes and I give consideration to voting Trump. If you want to call me a Trump supporter then, well, you will be technically correct then.

A sanders nomination is not a hard definition of that point, but it’s a significant indication.

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 1:48 PM. Reason : Would not vote for him unless driven to a fundamental change in outlook. Not there yet.]

2/13/2020 1:45:19 PM

daaave
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Why do you think Trump is better for your self-interest than Sanders?

And also why do you think Sanders would be bad for your self-interest?

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2020 1:49:22 PM

theDuke866
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in the near term? Because Sanders would tax me to hell and back, and would probably cause my investments to crater.

2/13/2020 1:51:11 PM

daaave
All American
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Bernie does not intend to burden the middle class with any more than what they pay now. There would be a small tax increase to pay for M4A, but that would result in overall savings for the vast majority of households due to premiums, deductibles, and co-pays disappearing. And you wouldn't have to worry about medical bankruptcy.

Additionally, the taxes you pay now will be diverted away from bloated defense programs and corporate subsidies, toward things that actually benefit you, such as expanding pensions, social security, infrastructure improvements, and so on.

What kind of investments are you talking about? Why do you think they would crater under Sanders?

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 1:57 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2020 1:55:45 PM

moron
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The markets would hiccup if sanders were elected but he’d do much better on trade than trump— you almost couldn’t do worse here. It would rebound quickly.

If sanders manages to pass min wage increase and top marginal rate increase and wealth taxes, these all have the effect of putting more money into more hands which I think would also help investments.

2/13/2020 1:55:56 PM

eleusis
All American
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wait, you think people making minimum wage would invest money if they had just a little bit more?

2/13/2020 2:02:11 PM

dtownral
All American
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Quote :
" You don’t get to impose the worst possible candidate on me and then demand that I vote for him. That’s the downside of the strategy of going hard left and motivating the base. I’m the trade off; you guys act like your opponents are morally wrong for opposing you instead of letting you have your cake and eat it too."


see:
Quote :
"
National GE, @Reuters/@Ipsos Among Independents:

Warren 34% (+5)
Trump 29%

Buttigieg 35% (+8)
Trump 27%

Bloomberg 39% (+14)
Trump 25%

Biden 43% (+14)
Trump 29%

Sanders 46% (+18)
Trump 28%
"


so yeah, we can have both because the "crazy left" platform actually interests a broad spectrum of americans across party lines

2/13/2020 2:06:37 PM

daaave
All American
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Quote :
"wait, you think people making minimum wage would invest money if they had just a little bit more?"


higher minimum wage circulates more money into the economy. how is this controversial? where do you think it would go?

2/13/2020 2:10:26 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"Kind of the other way around—my priorities will become basically exclusively that: my own near-term self-interest, IF it appears that the country is irredeemably locked into a path towards destruction."


this if statement is the key point to everything the duke is saying, because he will decide that basically no matter who the dems nominate because they are all leftist commies looking to take his money and guns

2/13/2020 2:11:08 PM

theDuke866
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No, you dense motherfucker, you could not miss the point further.

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 2:19 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2020 2:18:49 PM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
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^^^^ Trump is deeply unpopular, really controversial and got really, really lucky in 2016 with a perfect confluence of events that will never be repeated again. He isn’t a political genius playing 23-D chess.

He can still absolutely win but he is not the favorite and as I’ve said before when Biden had the largest head-to-heads, vote for who you want to not who you think can beat Trump.

2/13/2020 2:21:41 PM

horosho
All American
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The markets would definitely take a hit with Sanders. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Thats kind of the whole point. Everyday people aren't invested in the markets. The top 10% own 81% of the stock market and the bottom 80% own 8% of the stockmarket. Tanking the stock market in favor of universal benefits should be popular. This is how we reduce wealth inequality.

What do you think would happen to all of those fossil fuel, health insurance, and pharmaceutical stocks if their profits are all but prohibited?

How would the top 10% paying a hell of a lot more taxes affect the amount of money they feed into the markets?

^
Quote :
"Approval among Republicans hits 94%
Poll shows highest party polarization on record
Half of registered voters say Trump deserves to be re-elected"

https://news.gallup.com/poll/284156/trump-job-approval-personal-best.aspx

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 2:25 PM. Reason : is gallup lying bro?]

2/13/2020 2:24:02 PM

dtownral
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https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article240225186.html

Quote :
"Businessman Tommy Hendrickson has been a long-time Democratic fundraiser. Most recently he raised money for Biden. He said he decided to switch on Tuesday, the day of the New Hampshire primary.

“Bloomberg gives us the best path to move forward and win and do what we need to do to win in North Carolina,” Hendrickson said. “I believe there’s an excitement with Bloomberg and an ability to . . . go toe to toe with (President Donald) Trump that’s going to be very valuable to the Democratic Party in the fall.”

Hendrickson’s daughter Katie is Bloomberg’s state political director."


Tommy is a huge fundraiser, he is probably the biggest player in the area and he is the person to know in the dem party in NC and is well connected nationally. Hendrickson events are always a who's-who of the dem party and dem fundraisers. This wasn't a surprise but it's still disappointing, I've been texting and talking all morning to every connection I know to try to explain how terrible and short-sighted it would be to back bloomberg.

2/13/2020 2:24:19 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"^^^^ Trump is deeply unpopular, really controversial and got really, really lucky in 2016 with a perfect confluence of events that will never be repeated again. He isn’t a political genius playing 23-D chess."

did you mean to point to a horosho post? i definitely absolutely do not think trump is a political genius and have no idea how i could be confused for someone who thinks that.

2/13/2020 2:27:06 PM

HCH
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3720 Posts
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Higher minimum wage eventually causes higher unemployment because the true minimum wage is $0. And thus less money is "circulating" into the economy.

Quote :
"Bernie does not intend to burden the middle class with any more than what they pay now."
Famous last words spoken by every socialist. We did not intend to burden the middle class, but our bloated government and social system is requiring these bread lines.

2/13/2020 2:27:55 PM

dtownral
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2/13/2020 2:29:21 PM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
49512 Posts
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Quote :
" did you mean to point to a horosho post? i definitely absolutely do not think trump is a political genius and have no idea how i could be confused for someone who thinks that."


Nope. I was just using your post to make my point, certainly not implying you believed that.

I was more generally talking about how the media treats him with regards to independents. He is basically seen as infallible by the media in swing states despite eeking out a win by a few thousand votes.

2/13/2020 2:33:32 PM

HCH
All American
3720 Posts
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You like bread lines? Bernie's the candidate for you!

https://twitter.com/ForAmerica/status/1097887907631849472?s=20

2/13/2020 2:37:02 PM

daaave
All American
525 Posts
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Quote :
"Higher minimum wage eventually causes higher unemployment because the true minimum wage is $0. And thus less money is "circulating" into the economy."


Eventually, sure. But other first world countries have much higher minimum wages and similar unemployment rates.

2/13/2020 2:52:20 PM

dtownral
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26242 Posts
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Quote :
"I was more generally talking about how the media treats him with regards to independents. He is basically seen as infallible by the media in swing states despite eeking out a win by a few thousand votes.

"

he beat 9 people despite being outspent something like 10-to-1, he is the current poll leader, beats biden/warren/buttigieg in GE polling against trump, has the highest ceiling per the latest yougov/economist poll, etc...

it's too early to say if he'll be the nominee, but it's weird to act like he's not the current frontrunner

i'm also not seeing the same media you are if the media you're seeing says he is infallible, the media i've seen barely acknowledges his performance in iowa and new hampshire and still constantly attacks him with nonsense narratives

but all of this has nothing to do with my point, which was that despite the narrative that bernie is too left to win over independents, he actually does the best with independents

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 2:59 PM. Reason : infallible in the media? what?]

2/13/2020 2:59:02 PM

NyM410
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Wait, what? I was talking about Trump!

The whole point was to say ALL of the Democrats sizably beat Trump among independents and the idea that using the Bernie “isn’t electable” to convince yourself to vote Biden or Bloomberg doesn’t hold much weight.

(Largely the MSM acts like Trump is the rust belt whisperer when there is no real evidence he is)

2/13/2020 3:32:32 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"I've been texting and talking all morning to every connection I know to try to explain how terrible and short-sighted it would be to back bloomberg."


2/13/2020 3:48:54 PM

nacstate
All American
3700 Posts
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Anybody going to the Bernie rally in Durham tomorrow?

2/13/2020 4:31:57 PM

dtownral
All American
26242 Posts
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I'm planning on attending if I can change a morning meeting to a TC

2/13/2020 4:43:24 PM

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