It's easier to blame everyone else for your problems than to change your own behavior, but I thought Bernie was supposed to be smart and the 'best' candidate...

Now, if his strategy is to use the same playbook as Trump, which means running a negative campaign based on anger/negativity/blame/excuses, maybe he's OK with that. I just don't see any evidence it's working, let alone that it WOULD work in the GE. He looks like he's going to get crushed in MI, which seemed like a good chance to stop the bleeding. I guess we will just have to wait and see...

3/9/2020 4:26:51 PM

^He hasn't attacked Biden hard enough. He's been soft and cordial towards all of the other democrats as he was with Hillary. The pivot or change in behaivor would be to let loose on Biden. I think a lot of people are again confusing the Sanders campaign with random posters on the internet. I can't remember Bernie actually attacking anyone. Its all been limited to stating facts about their positions and policies that might lead to a negative result. He needs to shit on Biden.

Quote :

"It's a good thing that few rational/sane people share your idiotic world view."

Well since a worldview is a combination of opinions on thousands of different topics, few people actually share any worldview. The ones who think they do are simply subscribing to a worldview that has already been handpicked for them. If you did a double blind study, most democrats would reject Obama's actions on the border, climate change, financial bailouts, war and healthcare. Even 2008 Obama would.

These types of studies have been done and if you change one little thing about Obama, like making him bad looking. A lot less people would love him.

[Edited on March 9, 2020 at 4:30 PM. Reason : trump will bring up burisma, dementia and touching.will roll out a long list of accusers in october]

[Edited on March 9, 2020 at 4:31 PM. Reason : k]

3/9/2020 4:26:59 PM

Bernie is a flawed candidate, because the guy can't build a sustainable movement. Sanders' movement is so polarizing that he builds fervor among a few to get him noise and notoriety early on but he can't extend that message to a broader, more sustainable base. This coupled with the impression the more vocal, typically male Bernie supporters make with others in the party and on the periphery really holds him back.

To be beaten by a smiling puppet with obvious cognitive decline is sad. Not just for Bernie, but for everyone. I do wish it were different and that Biden had not run and we had fewer candidates, leaving room for more candidates to distinguish themselves but c'est la vie.

Between the two (okay 3) remaining, Biden is the better choice. As much as we need someone who can lead the country with policy and ideas, we also need someone that the country is willing to follow and rally behind. Bernie has proven (twice now) too polarizing for that task, but people's willingness to default to Biden despite obvious concerns shows that he is someone who can manage that important task.

Biden/Pete or Biden/Warren and I'm good with what we're doing here.

Quote :

"as he was with Hillary. "

Not so fast. He consistently implied that she was corrupt and that people should not vote for her based on that. His messaging specifically tapped into the underlying question of "can we trust the Clintons" and swayed voters away. It was so pervasive that I recall Hillary called Bernie out on stage at one point because of it.

[Edited on March 9, 2020 at 4:34 PM. Reason : with her]

3/9/2020 4:31:55 PM

1. Bernie supporters refuse to acknowledge the fact that he has glaring flaws to begin with.
2. Biden supporters admit that he's got flaws, but they don't care because those flaws aren't as bad as Trump's.

3/9/2020 4:38:27 PM

Bernies flaws pale in comparison to Biden. It's just that one of those is failing to convince people he can win.

3/9/2020 4:40:39 PM

Are we talking about PERSONALITY flaws, or policy flaws? Because they aren't the same thing.

I think most Biden enthusiasts (and I am not one of them) see Bernie having BOTH personality (stubborn/divisive) AND policy flaws (radical/extreme/socialist). And I also think they don't see Biden's policy flaws (too moderate/centrist) as a deal breaker.

3/9/2020 4:43:37 PM

Quote :

"Bernies flaws pale in comparison to Biden. It's just that one of those is failing to convince people he can win."

Hard to convince people that Bernie is the best candidate when that message is drowned out by the entire party establishment which is beholden to corporate donors who also just so happen to own the media, which spends all of its time telling voters that Bernie can't win.

[Edited on March 9, 2020 at 4:58 PM. Reason : .]

3/9/2020 4:57:57 PM

Being stubborn when it comes to basic human rights is not a flaw for Bernie, its a flaw in the people it turns away. Its not honest in this context to say Bernie is the "best" candidate when in reality theres nothing to compare him to. No other candidate gives a damn about the people at the bottom. Everyone else just wants to say/do enough to keep themselves in power and keep the money flowing. Bernie is the only candidate.

Bernie supporters will all admit that its an uphill battle from the start trying to reform a toxic system. The idea that a candidate could enter an ecosystem created and run by the corporate establishment and then try to take down that same establishment is stubborn in itself. In that sense, the entire campaign is flawed from the start.

No one goes to a Bernie rally and says "this campaign is divisive" unless they are talking about dividing the greedy billionaire class from the rest of the fucking planet. Then yeah. The campaign is divisive in that sense. Otherwise this talk about divisiveness is coming straight from the ruling class. Its just a shame more people can't see through it and vote in their own interests. Theres not enough of you to outnumber the people who would benefit from a revolution.

Biden's campaign is not divisive. It unites everyone in fucking over 99% of the planet.



[Edited on March 9, 2020 at 5:03 PM. Reason : see yall in moscow]

3/9/2020 4:58:02 PM

When Biden loses they will blame Sanders and coronavirus

3/9/2020 6:08:52 PM

I don't see how the Corona virus is going to help Trump win. If anything, it hurts his chances since so many old people are going to get sick/die, let alone how bad the stock market might get...

3/9/2020 6:18:52 PM

Quote :

" Right now, forget Trump. We need to focus on why Biden will fail to effectively lead the country. Fuck people who were cool with the 8 years Obama was running the show. They obviously are toxic people with no empathy so we don't need to worry about them."

This is legitimately terrible advice. Do this exact thing if you want Bernie to lose by 60 points.

Whatever you personally think about Obama (and we know Earl hates him while admiring Trump) he is wildly popular with the Dem electorate at large.

And ignoring Trump as he bungles a legitimate national security matter is sheer political malpractice. Now is the exact time Bernie should be hammering away at Trump and explaining how his plans would absolutely do the most for the current situation.

Maybe Earl is actually a Biden fan?

[Edited on March 9, 2020 at 6:30 PM. Reason : And to his credit, Bernie did exactly this at this coronavirus round table today ]

3/9/2020 6:29:04 PM

Another username recently admitted to being Earl so you can give that whole schtick up.

Obama is wildly popular with the democratic electorate but that is just a minority of the country made up of voters who have been consistently misled into voting against their own interests. Most of us are on to it and the only reason the others aren't is because no one has the courage to call him out. the politicians and media are all controlled by the same money that gave us Obama. Well thats not true. One person called the whole system out and he's in the white house because of it.

Quote :

"And ignoring Trump as he bungles a legitimate national security matter is sheer political malpractice. Now is the exact time Bernie should be hammering away at Trump and explaining how his plans would absolutely do the most for the current situation. Maybe Earl is actually a Biden fan? [Edited on March 9, 2020 at 6:30 PM. Reason : And to his credit, Bernie did exactly this at this coronavirus round table today"

Are you saying today is the first day Bernie rebuked Trump? He will never run against Trump if he doesn't attack his real, current opponents. This is exactly like "looking ahead" during a tournament. Talking about Trump is the role of a clear frontrunner. not when he only has one day left to save his campaign is a waste of time...unless he's already embracing his role as a sheepdog candidate.


[Edited on March 9, 2020 at 9:30 PM. Reason : realizing trump is awful isn't going to change anyone from biden to bernie]

3/9/2020 9:29:06 PM

Quote :

"I don’t really get it. I mean I’ve seen some people speculate she is being pragmatic and will want to better be able to move Biden left but it’s not like he’d not accept her GE endorsement if she endorsed Sanders in the primary."

I mean, at the risk of sounding trite, just follow the money. People need to realize that a primary isn't so much about winning the presidency (as evidenced by the pathetic coalescing around Biden), but about framing party policy.

This primary is about setting the future for the DNC. It's about deciding whether or not the Democratic Party wants to be the party of labor or if it wants to be the liberal wing of capital.

The liberal wing of capital recognized the insurgency of Sanders and his path to victory on behalf of labor and made three crucial moves to combat it:

1. It cleared the lane for the most moderate candidate in the race and secured the endorsement of the other moderates in order to boost his viability. A few calls were made, and over night a candidacy that was dead in the water became the front runner.

2. It manufactured a media bump for this candidate that basically amounted into millions of dollars in free advertisement to combat the insurgent threat of a candidate representing labor

And

3. Most importantly, it infused a floundering campaign with no real viable path to victory with cash at a moment where the liberal wing of capital was consolidating around it's preferred candidate, thus preventing the progressive wing from unifying around an insurgent candidacy that represented the needs of laborers.

Capital sunk money into her campaign on order to secure their investment. And it worked.

She was never going to endorse him.


And just like that, the threat of putting workers needs in the form of tangible and material benefits front and center of party policy is gone. A master-stroke by capital, with the added benefit of ensuring that the left is reduced to arguing about white-girl slay-queen feminism instead of worker solidarity.


[Edited on March 9, 2020 at 10:16 PM. Reason : ]

3/9/2020 10:10:26 PM

I just think it's interesting that many of the people and organizations who worked for Liz are now endorsing Bernie, but not her. I feel kinda bad for them - wonder if they are feeling betrayed as well.

3/9/2020 11:16:11 PM

^^

I agree with a lot of what you said, but there are some areas for which I see no validation.

1. Most moderate candidate in the race, sure. But Biden is still decently left to Obama. Other moderates, only if moderate is being compared with Bernie being the standard. Pete's policies were left of Biden and far left of most other presidents and mainstream candidates of recent history. I'm not sure that judging these people as moderates based on Bernie is a fair historical assessment. If you want to say labor vs. non-labor, then sure.

3. I'm not sure there is enough information to back this up. What, to you, makes it unlikely that those backing her considered she needed a large push of cash to even stand a chance past super Tuesday and wanted to stay committed to the path they were on until there was no more hope. Sure, you may have assessed there was no more hope earlier than that, but why should we be convinced that believers, who tend to be the most stubborn in facing reality, would have done the same?

3/10/2020 11:25:41 AM

Quote :

"But Biden is still decently left to Obama."

He's been a conservative Dem his entire career, so I have a very hard time believing he's to the left of Obama all of a sudden, now that he's running for president.

What policies are you basing this on?

3/10/2020 11:40:01 AM

Biden has described himself as both the most conservative democrat and conservative on most other issues



[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 12:00 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2020 11:58:55 AM

Quote :

"Another username recently admitted to being Earl so you can give that whole schtick up."

Lololololol a classic Earl alias identifier. Denies being earl at every juncture.

3/10/2020 11:59:43 AM

Now wait just a minute here. This presidential race will have to wait....which other user claimed to be Earl?? tulsigabbard??

[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 12:18 PM. Reason : And lol that Biden is left of Obama ]

3/10/2020 12:18:14 PM

I'm sure it's either fake news or another of the 100s of accounts in his lineage

3/10/2020 1:18:33 PM

twitter trending needs a way to distinguish between tweets supporting and opposing a tag

3/10/2020 1:45:51 PM

It was a TSB regular admitting it in a couple of posts last week but I don't remember because I don't care and would have to go back and find it. I am tulsigabbard though.

https://www.rt.com/usa/482766-biden-michigan-voter-fight/
This would be a campaign killer for anyone else. Imagine hating Trump and wanting to replace him with this.

Quote :

"Joe Biden ended up in a shouting match with a Michigan factory worker who accused him of trying to take Americans’ guns away, resulting in the former VP calling the voter a “horse’s ass” and saying he is “full of s**t.” The man accused Biden of “actively trying to end our Second Amendment rights” at a campaign stop on Tuesday as voters headed to the polls for the crucial Michigan primary. “You’re full of s**t," an incensed Biden shot back. Sensing disaster, a female staffer attempted to rescue Biden and usher him on, but he quickly brushed her off, telling her: “No. Shush. Shush.” The exchange turned even more intense when the worker reminded Biden: “You’re working for me, man.” Oddly, Biden seemed to dispute that, responding: “I’m not working for you — don’t be such a horse’s ass.”[b] "

Its RT so this story is completely fabricated.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/10/you-wanna-go-outside-me-joe-biden-tries-fight-union-worker-after-disagreement-over

Quote :

"'You Wanna Go Outside With Me?' [b]Joe Biden Tries to Fight Union Worker After Disagreement Over Gun Control"

Cool headline

3/10/2020 2:25:18 PM

it was already posted here, not sure why you needed to go to russian media to find it

[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 2:31 PM. Reason : g]

3/10/2020 2:31:12 PM

Where was it posted? Not in this thread.

And I needed to go away to find straight forward headline. Lets take a look at the headlines from his partner networks...

CNN

Quote :

"Joe Biden confronted on gun control by auto plant worker ..."

MSNBC

Quote :

"Biden confronts man who accuses him of wanting to take his guns away"

3/10/2020 2:41:44 PM

Quote :

"Where was it posted? Not in this thread."

It was a TSB regular posting it in a couple of posts a few hours ago but I don't remember because I don't care and would have to go back and find it

3/10/2020 2:58:06 PM

Quote :

"I agree with a lot of what you said, but there are some areas for which I see no validation. 1. Most moderate candidate in the race, sure. But Biden is still decently left to Obama. Other moderates, only if moderate is being compared with Bernie being the standard. Pete's policies were left of Biden and far left of most other presidents and mainstream candidates of recent history. I'm not sure that judging these people as moderates based on Bernie is a fair historical assessment. If you want to say labor vs. non-labor, then sure."

I honestly don't know what your point of contention even is. Biden is moderate, and to the right of Obama. He was put on the Obama ticket to appease whites. He as friends with Strom Thurmond, for Christ's sake. He was the most moderate left in the race, which is what I said, and why I framed it as a battle between labor and capital.

Quote :

"3. I'm not sure there is enough information to back this up. What, to you, makes it unlikely that those backing her considered she needed a large push of cash to even stand a chance past super Tuesday and wanted to stay committed to the path they were on until there was no more hope. Sure, you may have assessed there was no more hope earlier than that, but why should we be convinced that believers, who tend to be the most stubborn in facing reality, would have done the same?"

I was pretty clearly talking about big money donors, hence the use of the word capital. That's not to be confused with the upper middle class suburban white women who also donated because they didn't realize she was dead on arrival prior to Super Tuesday. Her small donors may not have seen the writing on the wall, but the corporate donors SURE fuck did, and they donated anyway. I'm just explaining their motive. They didn't donate so she could win, they donated to make sure Bernie would lose, and it worked. The bosses pooled their money to divide and crush the workers. Simple as that.

3/10/2020 4:11:33 PM

No audience next debate. Should be good

3/10/2020 7:26:13 PM

they should change it back to the original format then instead of a town hall

3/10/2020 7:36:35 PM

I think that 2020 candidate Biden is to the left of man-in-the-arena President Obama circa 4-12 years ago...but I'm not sure how useful of a comparison that is.

3/10/2020 7:43:40 PM

that's cute

3/10/2020 7:47:27 PM

fuck everybody



[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 9:50 PM. Reason : k]

[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 9:58 PM. Reason : frustration post]

3/10/2020 9:40:58 PM

Me first

3/10/2020 9:45:07 PM

Yang, the only candidate with a healthcare plane right of Biden, has endorsed Biden

3/10/2020 9:53:27 PM

Also, no Warren supporters thinks she's running again, right?

3/10/2020 9:58:21 PM

Elizabeth Warren has done more damage to the progressive cause than any single person. I'm going into full apathy mode for a while now. Unless its someone pure like aoc, I'm gonna actively canvass #demexit or just sit out completely.

[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 10:18 PM. Reason : Coronavirus 2020]

3/10/2020 10:07:58 PM

Quote :

" now we know who we can't trust anymore. please progressives don't ever be fooled again by bernie and warren. they have let you down tremendously. Warren could have stepped up and endorsed bernie when the contrast on banking first appeared. They probably wouldve won the nomination. Bernie could have saved his dignity by sitting out of the convention. you betrayed us by sheepdogging revolutionary, anti wall street votes into an antirevultionary party 11/9/2016 6:50:34 PM"

man how did i get caught back up again

imagine living in mississippi and voting for more of the same

i can't even feel sorry for these idiots anymore

[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 10:50 PM. Reason : the thing about education is you need it to know you need it.]

3/10/2020 10:44:53 PM

Like Joe's tone tonight.

Don't know if he smoked weed first or what but he's not screaming and yelling at everyone like normal.

Anger and volume is not passion.

Looks like his handlers did something good.

[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 10:56 PM. Reason : Hey at least his sister isn't up there to confuse him ]

[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 10:56 PM. Reason : Jebus his people really slowed him down finally ]

[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 10:58 PM. Reason : Ok nevermind he's reverting to Mc Screamy]

3/10/2020 10:53:50 PM

Now just need to pass the doobie to bernie bros so they relax

3/10/2020 10:56:30 PM

Good luck they're gonna be mad forever

3/10/2020 10:57:00 PM

Sanders should be negotiating a way to drop out now, gotta beat Trump and Sanders was done when Warren didnt endorse before super Tuesday

3/10/2020 11:08:37 PM

Good one.

3/10/2020 11:18:40 PM

i just can't believe all these sexist states didn't vote for the woman at all really.

[Edited on March 10, 2020 at 11:19 PM. Reason : im out of control tonight]

3/10/2020 11:18:43 PM

^^ i don't get it

3/10/2020 11:23:23 PM

Imagine living in Flint and wanting to go back to the times that got you leaded water.

3/11/2020 12:05:40 AM

^^ yeah you do

3/11/2020 12:06:04 AM

They're gonna Weekend at Bernie's Biden all the way to an electoral landslide for Trump and it's gonna be bananas.

3/11/2020 12:11:03 AM

There are no negotiations to be had. The corporate wing does not negotiate with the progressive wing. They might pretend to, but they ultimately serve capital, even when it means capitulating to Republicans.

3/11/2020 12:24:13 AM

Quote :

"They're gonna Weekend at Bernie's Biden all the way to an electoral landslide for Trump and it's gonna be bananas."

I voted for Bernie but Biden has a significant advantage over Bernie in literally every battleground state, even places that were barely battlegrounds in 2016 like NC, Florida, and Ohio.

3/11/2020 12:50:16 AM

Bernie can't even win some of the states he won in 2020 like Iowa and California.

3/11/2020 1:12:44 AM

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/bernies-tragic-misreading-of-16-has-finally-been-dispelled.html?utm_medium=s1&utm_source=fb&utm_campaign=nym

Didn’t even need to read past the title to know the article nailed it

3/11/2020 1:52:37 AM