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NyM410
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Marcy Wheeler and Preet Bharara for two.

But others as well who fall in a lesser category of trustworthy to me (Greenwald, Hayes, Heer).

11/27/2018 12:32:10 PM

dtownral
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from the story it sounds like they have video of him

[Edited on November 27, 2018 at 1:00 PM. Reason : i've never understood the marcy wheeler following]

11/27/2018 12:57:10 PM

thegoodlife3
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^^ Hayes as in Chris Hayes?

has there been some Chris Hayes backlash that I’m completely unaware of?

11/27/2018 1:09:12 PM

NyM410
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No issue with Chris Hayes. He’s about as progressive a mainstreamed can get.

https://twitter.com/gelles/status/1067483454005223429?s=21

This is VERY interesting.

11/27/2018 1:30:43 PM

Shrike
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It's true, all of it.gif

11/27/2018 1:56:33 PM

Cherokee
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Quote :
" i've never understood the marcy wheeler following"


I didn't start following her stuff regularly until someone had posted it in this thread several months ago. It's fairly objective analysis that has more of a legal slant (from a skepticism standpoint). But it helps put a lot of minor details together with context. For instance her analysese of court filings.

11/27/2018 2:31:43 PM

NyM410
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She was also a major Trump/Russia skeptic oft cited by Greenwald and his ilk.

I appreciate her ability to consider evidence (including personal experiences) and admit she was likely wrong.

11/27/2018 3:25:12 PM

thegoodlife3
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/mueller-has-emails-stone-pal-corsi-about-wikileaks-dem-email-n940611

all of the drips are starting to cause a flood

11/27/2018 4:47:03 PM

UJustWait84
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Regardless of whether this is true or not, I'm skeptical that Trump will face any legal repercussions from it. It'll hurt him politically (assuming it's even halfway true), but people still won't care. Right wingers are already claiming: A) fake news, B) even if it were true, who cares because Hillary, C) this is Obama's fault.

I just have such fatigue at this point. Totally reminds me of the UNC cheating thing

11/27/2018 6:26:56 PM

Cherokee
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That's a fair opinion, particularly with respect to the fatigue aspect. But what is important is whether enough in the middle sway to one side or the other after more and more news comes out about this stuff.

11/27/2018 6:31:19 PM

UJustWait84
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I think the recent election results (~40 seats in the house was yuuuuuge, governorships too, Senate was aight) certainly helps paint an optimistic picture if you're looking for signs of hope. The problem, as I've noted before, is that Trump can win the exact same way he did last time, with an even bigger loss in the popular vote, and we will be even more fucked.

I have little faith that political scandal will be enough to boot him out of office, but I guess it's better than next to ZERO faith he will wind up behind bars for all of his shady bullshit.

For Trump and all the baggage he brings (money worship, cronyism, xenophobia, finger pointing, zero sum politics, etc) to really "go away" I think it's going to take something MAJOR to bring people closer together: war, economic ruin, natural catastrophe.

[/debbie downer]

11/27/2018 6:45:42 PM

Cherokee
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/us/politics/manafort-lawyer-trump-cooperation.html

We all knew this but posting it anyway. This type of stuff suggests to me that either there really is no evidence connecting Trump to this stuff or EmptyWheel is right regarding Mueller using this to lock Trump into lying on his questions.

11/27/2018 8:54:26 PM

moron
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Between Cohen and Manafort, seems pretty clear trump would be in jail with them were he not the President

He’s spent the last 2 years attacking the press. He has continuously attacked Mueller and the fbi.

He knows the report is going to point him out as a criminal.

The question now is if his attacks have created enough doubt within the GOP to let him pardon everyone involved including possibly his own kids, or are they going to draw the line somewhere.

I still think there’s a good chance he gets re-elected too. What better way to own the libs than vote for the guy all the “elites” are saying is a criminal?

I don’t know the solution but I don’t see any signs of the Democrats gearing up to fight this message.

11/27/2018 10:00:03 PM

Shrike
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So.......the current theory is that Mueller knew Manafort has been lying all along, and unlike Gates, did not prevent his lawyer from briefing Team Trump about what Manafort had said. So now that Trump has presumably submitted his answers to Mueller, filled with the same lies that Manafort has been telling Mueller .......... got 'em?

I want to believe that no one would be dumb enough to fall for such an obvious trap, but yet here we are.

11/28/2018 9:24:19 AM

Cherokee
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That's a theory, maybe the strongest.

Or Manafort is legit just a normal, dumb criminal.

Or Manafort is legit fearful of being killed by Russian intelligence.

[Edited on November 28, 2018 at 10:34 AM. Reason : A]

11/28/2018 10:34:20 AM

marko
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11/28/2018 11:24:50 AM

Shrike
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Quote :
"Or Manafort is legit fearful of being killed by Russian intelligence."


I think a lot of Manafort's behavior can be attributed to this. Maybe not just fearful for his own life, this dude was in deep with some of nastiest folks on the planet, and he has a wife and kids.

[Edited on November 28, 2018 at 11:39 AM. Reason : .]

11/28/2018 11:37:30 AM

Cherokee
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Yep, I definitely think it's a strong possibility, although begs the question of why plea to begin with.

11/28/2018 1:01:40 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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To acquire inside information from the Special Counsel?

11/28/2018 2:52:28 PM

Cherokee
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Was referring to alternative scenarios that didn't involve Trump specifically.

11/28/2018 2:56:09 PM

A Tanzarian
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I think it's a combination of regular ol' desperation and stupidity.

11/28/2018 5:48:14 PM

Cherokee
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https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/11/28/trumps-two-denials-could-provide-the-excuse-for-mueller-to-demand-an-interview/

11/28/2018 7:05:31 PM

moron
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Quote :
"The letter, obtained last week by The Atlantic, was sent to Democratic Representative Adam Schiff’s office on November 19 by an individual who claims to have been close to Papadopoulos in late 2016 and early 2017. The letter was brought to the attention of Schiff and House Intelligence Committee staff, according to an aide who requested anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation. The letter was also obtained by federal authorities, who are taking its claims “very seriously,” said two U.S. officials who also requested anonymity due to the sensitivities of the probe.

The statement makes a series of explosive but uncorroborated claims about Papadopoulos’s alleged coordination with Russians in the weeks following Trump’s election in November 2016, including that Papadopoulos said he was “doing a business deal with Russians which would result in large financial gains for himself and Mr. Trump.”"


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/11/papadopouloss-russia-ties-still-interest-fbi-schiff/576895/

11/28/2018 8:28:37 PM

moron
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More craziness… seems like a lot of threads are coming loose now and I’m not clear how they all tie together.

Kind of amazing how Wikileaks is at the center, but also explains why Wikileaks seemed to go from being skeptical of US hegemony to being Trump shills during the election.

They were clinging to anyone who’d sweet talk with them.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with-ari-melber/watch/key-mueller-witness-i-lied-and-i-m-ready-to-die-in-jail-1383185475967

11/28/2018 9:16:13 PM

Cherokee
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Quote :
"I’m not clear how they all tie together."


It's most likely all quid pro quo:

1) Russia wants sanctions released and further benefits from Trump

2) Russia offers money and deals as well as election help

3) Trump loves it and helps direct the minions to follow through, some of them probably having no clue what he was really up to and some of them actively part of it, like his family

4) The underlings help for your typical pride and power

Your crazies are people like Stone and Corsi. Your traitors are Manafort, Page and the Trumps.

The wildcard or unknown is whether Trump knew and directed or Manafort orchestrated behind the scenes and Trump's children did what they could to prevent papa retard from finding out.

I am very keen to see what comes of Turkey/UAE/Saudi Arabia aspects (Flynn/Kushner/Erik Prince/Seychelles) and Michael Cohen's cooperation.

[Edited on November 28, 2018 at 10:22 PM. Reason : A]

11/28/2018 10:18:09 PM

UJustWait84
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I had a moment of panic when I considered the possibility that Trump is, in fact, an a diabolically evil genius, and knew he could get away with pardoning cronies left and right all along, and seize control of the US ala Hitler. But then I realized how he can barely read or form a coherent sentence, so it's much more likely that he is far too stupid to mastermind anything, hence his constant rage tweeting and projection.

11/28/2018 10:27:45 PM

Cherokee
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-night-owl-calls-to-roger-stone-in-2016-draw-scrutiny-in-mueller-probe/2018/11/28/77d6174e-f332-11e8-80d0-f7e1948d55f4_story.html?utm_term=.44a911eb9526

Quote :
"Mueller’s keen interest in their relationship was laid out in a draft court document revealed this week in which prosecutors drew a direct line between the two men — referring to Stone as someone understood to be in regular contact with senior Trump campaign officials, “including with then-candidate Donald J. Trump.”

The inclusion of the president by name in the draft filing rattled his legal team and indicated how closely the special counsel is scrutinizing what Trump may have learned from Stone about WikiLeaks’ release of emails that prosecutors say were hacked by Russian intelligence operatives.

In recent months, the Trump Organization turned over to Mueller’s team phone and contact logs that show multiple calls between the then-candidate and Stone in 2016, according to people familiar with the material."


https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/28/ted-malloch-wikileaks-information-trump-campaign-mueller-investigation

[Edited on November 28, 2018 at 10:41 PM. Reason : A]

11/28/2018 10:32:20 PM

NyM410
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Quote :
"Your crazies are people like Stone and Corsi. Your traitors are Manafort, Page and the Trumps."


I think this is wrong. Trump belongs more in the first group. People don’t like to admit it because it reflects so terribly on the county and it’s population but we basically have a Corsi/Stone/Alex Jones in charge..

11/29/2018 7:34:32 AM

Cherokee
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Absolutely fair, but Trump's insane deference to Russia puts him in the potential traitor column for me.

11/29/2018 8:36:48 AM

dtownral
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trump is a traitor not a useful idiot, he has been a part of a criminal organization for a long time and doesn't give a shit

11/29/2018 8:54:05 AM

NyM410
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Lol, Cohen pled to lying to congress and gave 70 (!) hours of testimony to Mueller on financial crimes and Russia.

That is going to be one hell of a flight to Argentina..

11/29/2018 9:12:35 AM

Bullet
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There's so much going on, there's no way the average citizen can make any sense of it. There isn't a single story about any of this on the front page of WRAL.

V Yeah, I don't think the "Breaking" was up when i first started typing this,but now the main story is Cohen pleading guilty


[Edited on November 29, 2018 at 9:47 AM. Reason : ]

11/29/2018 9:37:03 AM

Money_Jones
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^Wral has the Cohen plea up as a “BREAKING” news header at the top of its homepage, which usually means an article is forthcoming

...And now article is up

[Edited on November 29, 2018 at 9:46 AM. Reason : $$$]

11/29/2018 9:39:25 AM

moron
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/29/business/deutsche-bank-money-laundering-raid.html

Wow. There’s no reference to trump but this is the one bank that would loan trump money. I wouldn’t be shocked to find out the next few days there’s a trump link here...

11/29/2018 10:23:12 AM

NyM410
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It’s Panama Papers related.

Was he cited in that?

Wow, didn’t take for Trump to publicly go from “he made it up” to “so what if I did do it.” Literally in the same appearance.

[Edited on November 29, 2018 at 10:31 AM. Reason : X]

11/29/2018 10:27:38 AM

Mr. Joshua
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11/29/2018 11:06:50 AM

Cherokee
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https://www.vox.com/2018/11/29/18117854/michael-cohen-plea-documents-trump-read

Wow.

11/29/2018 11:10:49 AM

A Tanzarian
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^ Do we know who Individual 2 is?

Papadopoulus?

11/29/2018 11:23:51 AM

Pupils DiL8t
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Felix Sater maybe?

11/29/2018 11:30:04 AM

Cherokee
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The Giuliani spin is hysterical.

11/29/2018 12:31:55 PM

beatsunc
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So Trump tried to build a tower in Moscow. Ok.

[Edited on November 29, 2018 at 12:45 PM. Reason : I thought everyone knew he was a real estate developer]

11/29/2018 12:40:23 PM

Shrike
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Hey it's just a little conspiracy/money laundering/treason/perjury, it's still good, it's still good!

11/29/2018 12:47:10 PM

Cherokee
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^^Lol haven't followed any of the details or history on this for the past 3-4 years have you?

[Edited on November 29, 2018 at 12:47 PM. Reason : A]

11/29/2018 12:47:23 PM

dtownral
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i mean it's such a non-story, that's why everyone just told the truth about it

11/29/2018 12:50:48 PM

Cherokee
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Rofl

11/29/2018 1:06:15 PM

moron
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Quote :
"Source says feds showed up this am, asked everyone to leave and put brown paper on the doors."


https://twitter.com/fspielman/status/1068177373684817923?s=21


This law firm represented trump’s businesses for 12 years.

11/29/2018 2:20:27 PM

Shrike
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If anyone is still on the "how could they be this dumb" train, remember, this has all happened before.

11/29/2018 2:22:16 PM

A Tanzarian
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I feel like that could be applied to the whole of human existence.

11/29/2018 2:27:34 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"https://twitter.com/fspielman/status/1068177373684817923?s=21


This law firm represented trump’s businesses for 12 years.

"

it's a city hall office not a law firm, was his law firm raided too?

[Edited on November 29, 2018 at 2:57 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2018 2:55:54 PM

NyM410
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It was. But dude is a massive crook and a dick so it’s likely unrelated.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1068177931095162881?s=21

In other news, it appears WikiLeaks is going full Trump still and baselessly threatening to sue people with no intention of ever following through because of discovery.

11/29/2018 3:08:15 PM

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