User not logged in - login - register
Home Calendar Books School Tool Photo Gallery Message Boards Users Statistics Advertise Site Info
go to bottom | |
 Message Boards » » World War 3 - who will be on which side? Page 1 2 3 [4] 5, Prev Next  
horosho
Suspended
2001 Posts
user info
edit post

Its not "earl's chart", its CNBC's chart and thats how %s work. Heres an example with simple numbers:

If the USA spent 4 and had a GDP of 10 thats 40%
If Canada spent .2 and had a GDP of 2 thats 10%

North America spent 4.2 out of 12 which is 35%

It shouldn't be confusing if you're familiar with the NATO agreement because that is NATO's standard for member spending
Quote :
"In 2014, all NATO members agreed to increase their defense spending to 2% of gross domestic product by 2024."



[Edited on July 13, 2020 at 9:58 AM. Reason : straight forward metric]

7/13/2020 9:52:33 AM

Cherokee
All American
8256 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"It's snowing total contributions as a portion of GDP. The US isn't spending more than all of NATO or North America. It just has a high contribution percentage than the NATO average or the North America average."


Gotcha, thanks.

7/13/2020 11:00:08 AM

moron
All American
32752 Posts
user info
edit post

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/russia-ukraine-days-war-vladimir-23880564

Russia amasses 100k troops on Ukrainian border

4/9/2021 10:23:58 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
18164 Posts
user info
edit post

Looks legit:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56678665

4/10/2021 5:00:35 PM

moron
All American
32752 Posts
user info
edit post

Biden just announced all troops out of arghanistan by sept 11. NATO just announced more troops moving to Germany to counter russia troop buildup.

So we're looking at US+India+NATO vs Russia+China+Iran

NK is a wild card i think

4/13/2021 1:34:12 PM

moron
All American
32752 Posts
user info
edit post

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erictegler/2021/04/13/south-koreas-new-kf-21-fighter-is-more-an-alternative-to-chinese-influence-than-to-the-f-35/?sh=5b43a36f4763

South Korea unveiled it's own home grown fighter jet that it's partnered with Indonesia to develop as a counter to China.

[Edited on April 13, 2021 at 2:20 PM. Reason : ]

4/13/2021 2:19:20 PM

UJustWait84
All American
25374 Posts
user info
edit post

^Taiwan hates China, too; however, SK hates Japan, so that could get weird...

But throw in Pakistan with Iran, China, Russia while we're at it.

Myanmar is yet another wildcard, along with Belarus.

4/15/2021 1:30:19 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

Taiwan and SK stand no chance of surviving as US allies in a hot war with China. Taiwan in particular will be brought to heel before any real conflict begins. As if China would allow a right-wing holdout government 100 miles off their coast to antagonize them in a global world war.

Quote :
"US+India+NATO"


This also isn't going to happen

The US is in its downfall and China will soon become the #1 superpower, if it isn't already - let's just hope enough of the world understands and accepts that.

[Edited on April 15, 2021 at 4:05 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2021 4:02:49 PM

moron
All American
32752 Posts
user info
edit post

China and India are already shooting at each other in skirmishes, this could be the spark

There's lots of flash points now, i don't really envy the Biden admin, they have a difficult balancing act to perform, otherwise the troops leaving Afghanistan will just be dumped into something else.

4/15/2021 4:40:49 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"China and India are already shooting at each other in skirmishes, this could be the spark
"


True, but not the same as a world war. India is already dealing with a massive uprising within its borders. Add in what is sure to be an incredibly unpopular world war and you have a recipe for regime change.

4/15/2021 6:13:07 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
18164 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"let's just hope enough of the world understands and accepts that."

What do you mean by this?

4/15/2021 7:42:31 PM

UJustWait84
All American
25374 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"Taiwan and SK stand no chance of surviving as US allies in a hot war with China. Taiwan in particular will be brought to heel before any real conflict begins. As if China would allow a right-wing holdout government 100 miles off their coast to antagonize them in a global world war."


Well duh, but both of them are key US allies, so if China goes out and attacks them, the US is reasonably likely to intervene. Japan is also a key ally, but they're nowhere the same juggernaut from the past, neither economically, nor militarily.

Noam Chomsky still thinks climate change is a bigger threat to human existence than nuclear war, so I guess that makes me feel a little better.

4/15/2021 8:54:48 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
18164 Posts
user info
edit post

Doesn't have to be a nuclear war to be a shitshow.

4/15/2021 10:17:10 PM

UJustWait84
All American
25374 Posts
user info
edit post

Fair enough. I'm actually far more worried about riots/domestic terrorist attacks/mass shootings and the fact that 50% of QOPers are still refusing to acknowledge the truth and are going to make COVID drag on for way longer than necessary.

4/15/2021 10:26:32 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
18164 Posts
user info
edit post

Yes, this is concerning. Did you see Jim Jordan today?

4/15/2021 10:48:44 PM

darkone
(\/) (;,,,;) (\/)
11474 Posts
user info
edit post

https://112.international/ukraine-top-news/russia-to-block-kerch-strait-for-warships-for-six-months-60594.html

4/15/2021 10:50:09 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"What do you mean by this?"


I mean China has outplayed the US economically and I hope the world accepts that rather than enabling belligerent behavior from the US that could lead to war.

4/16/2021 12:22:57 PM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
17982 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"So we're looking at US+India+NATO vs Russia+China+Iran[quote]

You're always wanting to draw India into this and I just don't see it.

Historically India has not been aligned with the United States or NATO, and as I've said here before, the Cold War saw them friendlier with the Soviets than with us. Modi's concerns are domestic and will likely stay that way unless China or Pakistan do something far more belligerent than they have in recent decades, which is vanishingly unlikely. Even if they ganged up on India and won, the cost/benefit isn't there. A massive, possibly nuclear war, for...what? China gets some strips of mountainous territory with no resources to speak of. Pakistan gets Kashmir but certainly takes the brunt of whatever India dishes out in exchange. No, India stays out of it.

[quote]As if China would allow a right-wing holdout government 100 miles off their coast to antagonize them in a global world war."


If we start from a place where a world war pitting China against the United States already exists, regardless of the reason it started, then sure, I agree - first thing China is going to do is invade Taiwan. It will likely be successful, though I don't think it's as inevitable as all that - plenty of islands have held out against hostile mainland forces in history. China's naval capabilities are getting better but they don't outstrip ours yet, let alone ours + Japan + South Korea + Taiwan.

Quote :
"I mean China has outplayed the US economically and I hope the world accepts that rather than enabling belligerent behavior from the US that could lead to war."


Well the first part of this sentence has all kinds of problems. China hasn't "outplayed" us at anything, and their economy is deeply, deeply flawed, in many ways worse than ours; at the end of the day, there's just so goddamn many Chinese that even with an inefficient economic system they're going to end up with a huge economy. It says something about just how bad that system was that it's not rivalling us for first place until now.

As to the second part, I think real belligerent behavior on our part has a likelihood of zero. I've seen enough of your garbage posts to know that if China invaded Taiwan tomorrow you'd say it was American belligerence that caused it, but the fact is we're not acting in a belligerent way now and we're not going to start. Not because we have pure, noble, or peaceful aims, not because democracies abhor war, not for any silly reason like that. We're not going to actively court war with China because such a war is unwinnable by American standards of victory. That country is too big and too populous to invade and occupy, even if we went in with all our allies. The best we could hope for is to destroy its offensive military capabilities and damage the economy and the CCP's prestige to such a degree that it imploded from within. That's no great prize and it's a long shot to boot.

Throw in the fact that there's so much more money to be made in trading with China rather than bombing it, and we're not going to escalate.

However...

We have treaties of alliance and military support with a number of countries in the region, relationships of long standing and close cooperation. If we were to ignore our responsibilities under those treaties by failing to come to the robust aid of our allies in the face of aggression on China's part, the results would be catastrophic. Faced with that situation, we'll respond. Even though China initiated hostilities, you'll blame us, naturally. But there it is.

Under normal circumstances, China's government understands this, so they talk a big game as necessary to satisfy domestic needs but they don't actually send troops to Taipei. But the Trump administration left this country so fucked, so seemingly unreliably, and so apparently weak in the eyes of the world that I have real concern that China or Russia may underestimate our commitment to treaties and do something stupid.

---

Now, in the spirit of the thread, my most plausible "horrifying global conflict" scenario:

Russia's troop build up is prelude to a further invasion of Ukraine (beyond the territory already under de-facto Russian control). NATO, unwilling to bend any further, sends in forces to protect some part of Ukrainian territory; before long, one side more or less accidentally starts shooting at the other, and we end up in a war with Putin. Russia pulls out some surprise victories in unconventional theaters - cyberspace, outer space, etc. - but their conventional military forces are something of a paper tiger and NATO is ultimately able to repel them without too much difficulty.

The real threat emerges when China, sensing an opportunity to make a move with the rest of the world distracted, goes for Taiwan. There's no meaningful "alliance" between China and Russia, though they may coordinate military in some narrow contexts.

Best case outcome: the Allies have war aims limited to defending the status quo ante and manage to severely deplete the offensive military capabilities of Russia and China, leading to an uneasy peace before nuclear war begins. The economies and regime prestige of those countries is damaged enough that they suffer massive internal upheavals.

Worst case outcome: nuclear annihilation of the human race.

Notes: It's pretty much equally plausible that the sequence of events is inverted, with China moving on Taiwan and Russia opportunistically going for Ukraine. The important thing is that the second party isn't acting in concert with the first, they're just taking advantage of a situation.

Iran/Israel, India/Pakistan, North Korea/South Korea might also use the general melee as an excuse to go to war but will be sideshows.

4/16/2021 1:27:36 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"Well the first part of this sentence has all kinds of problems. China hasn't "outplayed" us at anything, and their economy is deeply, deeply flawed, in many ways worse than ours; at the end of the day, there's just so goddamn many Chinese that even with an inefficient economic system they're going to end up with a huge economy. "


This is not based in fact. China has averaged 6% GDP growth over the past ~50 years. 3% for the US. They're absolutely trouncing us and will continue to do so.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/gdp-growth-rate
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-growth-rate

Quote :
"It says something about just how bad that system was that it's not rivalling us for first place until now."


This is a great argument if you ignore the fact that they were heavily colonized until the mid-19th century and have started from essentially zero.

4/16/2021 2:17:35 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"We have treaties of alliance and military support with a number of countries in the region, relationships of long standing and close cooperation. If we were to ignore our responsibilities under those treaties by failing to come to the robust aid of our allies in the face of aggression on China's part, the results would be catastrophic. Faced with that situation, we'll respond. Even though China initiated hostilities, you'll blame us, naturally. But there it is."


Are you talking about Taiwan here?

[Edited on April 16, 2021 at 2:45 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2021 2:39:31 PM

Cabbage
All American
1568 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"This is not based in fact. China has averaged 6% GDP growth over the past ~50 years. 3% for the US."


I'm not an economist but even I know that simply comparing GDP growth rates by itself is ignorant.

4/16/2021 3:08:32 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"mid-19th century"


whoops, meant to say 20th century

Quote :
"I'm not an economist but even I know that simply comparing GDP growth rates by itself is ignorant."


You're going to have to elaborate here. But regardless, the argument was that China has a deeply flawed and inefficient economic system. A 6%/yr growth rate over 50 years absolutely refutes that.

[Edited on April 16, 2021 at 3:13 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2021 3:09:44 PM

Cabbage
All American
1568 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"You're going to have to elaborate here."


Is this elaboration enough?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273977/countries-with-the-highest-growth-of-the-gross-domestic-product-gdp/

...or do you actually think Guyana is outplaying the entire world?

4/16/2021 3:16:06 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

A gigantic oil reserve was discovered in Guyana and has just started producing. You can't compare that to steady, planned, high growth over a period of 50 years.

But you are right about GDP not being a totally accurate indicator. In fact, it's a lowball for a developing country like China, because subsistence agriculture isn't taken into account.

[Edited on April 16, 2021 at 3:26 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2021 3:23:51 PM

Cabbage
All American
1568 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"A gigantic oil reserve was discovered in Guyana and has just started producing."


Yep, like I said, comparing GDP growth rate alone is ignorant....other factors are at play, as you just acknowledged.

Quote :
"You can't compare that to steady, planned, high growth over a period of 50 years."


And you can't simply compare one country's growth rate with another as if that's the only variable.

What I had in mind with my initial comment is the simple observation that smaller GDP enables larger growth rate to begin with, purely from a numbers standpoint. ($1 growing to $5 is 400% growth. $100 growing to $104, the same $4 increase, is just 4% growth). An economy that has been underperforming and then begins to start catching up will naturally have bigger growth rate numbers than an economy chugging along at its expected level of performance.

4/16/2021 3:33:43 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

An agrarian economy with relatively meager natural resources rising 6% per year for 50 years is nothing short of an economic miracle, as it is widely described by economists. You can argue around it all you want - their economy is anything but a failure. Btw it was also the only major economy to grow in 2020.

And if you want to talk about a mature growth rate (2-3%), the US has underperformed over the past 15 years.

[Edited on April 16, 2021 at 4:10 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2021 4:07:13 PM

Cabbage
All American
1568 Posts
user info
edit post

I never said their economy was a failure. I simply said there is much more to it than simply comparing growth rates. Do you continue to disagree?

4/16/2021 4:16:26 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
18164 Posts
user info
edit post

Why don't you just MOVE there daaave if you love it so much?!



[Edited on April 16, 2021 at 4:17 PM. Reason : These colors don't run!]

4/16/2021 4:17:23 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

^^
No, that's true.

^
Mandarin is too hard

[Edited on April 16, 2021 at 4:19 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2021 4:18:24 PM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
17982 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"China has averaged 6% GDP growth over the past ~50 years. 3% for the US. They're absolutely trouncing us and will continue to do so."


Cabbage has already pretty much addressed this, but let's add in a couple of things:

-A large portion of China's growth is predicated on having a large population of people willing to work for very, very little. That's a state of affairs which isn't sustainable forever, and which is already showing signs of fraying. As China's labor costs begin to outstrip those of other countries (or domestic automation), their main advantage will be sharply undercut.
-It's also built on violating all manner of modern rules and norms regarding the environment, human rights, and intellectual property. You might rightly point out that we did all of this historically as well. Very true. Eventually various political pressures caused us (or are causing us) to stop. Those forces are not unique to us.

Quote :
"This is a great argument if you ignore the fact that they were heavily colonized until the mid-19th century and have started from essentially zero."


Why would I have brought it up? The reasons for Chinese economic inefficiency weren't at issue, merely its existence. Yeah, China got boned hard by Europe and Japan for quite some time. That no doubt retarded the development of the economy. Whether they did it more than Mao's lunacy is another question.

Quote :
"Are you talking about Taiwan here?"


Japan and South Korea are the main countries we have actual treaties with. I'd argue that we have an informal but de facto defense relationship with Taiwan clearly supported by our actions over the last 40 years and by formal treaty before that. It's not really important that we agree on the precise nature of the status; the important points are (a) I believe we will act as though we have a formal alliance with Taiwan, and (b) If we don't, our formal allies will take it as a sign that we will not honor our alliances and will act accordingly, further isolating the United States and undermining an international order that has avoided nuclear war since 1945.

[Edited on April 16, 2021 at 4:55 PM. Reason : ]

4/16/2021 4:54:39 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"It's also built on violating all manner of modern rules and norms regarding the environment, human rights, and intellectual property. You might rightly point out that we did all of this historically as well. Very true. Eventually various political pressures caused us (or are causing us) to stop. Those forces are not unique to us."


Chinese human rights violations pale in comparison to the industrialization period of the US. As far as environmental norms, I'm not sure what you mean. Chinese CO2 emissions are lower per capita than the US. They're responsible for less ocean waste per capita. And their most recent 5 year plan includes aggressive sustainable energy goals. Every corporation steals as much intellectual property (a morally gray area in the first place) as they can get away with. Your main point here that their growth rate will eventually slow is true, but I haven't seen any analysis suggesting this will happen any time soon.

Quote :
"Japan and South Korea are the main countries we have actual treaties with. I'd argue that we have an informal but de facto defense relationship with Taiwan clearly supported by our actions over the last 40 years and by formal treaty before that. It's not really important that we agree on the precise nature of the status; the important points are (a) I believe we will act as though we have a formal alliance with Taiwan, and (b) If we don't, our formal allies will take it as a sign that we will not honor our alliances and will act accordingly, further isolating the United States and undermining an international order that has avoided nuclear war since 1945."


China isn't going to attack Japan or South Korea, which is why I asked about Taiwan, who, as you said, we do not have a defense treaty with. Taiwan is already a claimed territory of China. The ROC is lucky to have held out for this long, and it would be completely unsurprising if China decided to formally annex them.

I really don't understand your point. We don't exactly have a great history of honoring treaties/international agreements - why would we conjure one up that doesn't even exist to start a global conflict?

[Edited on April 16, 2021 at 5:27 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2021 5:25:44 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

And on the environment, just one anecdote but Japan is dumping millions of tons of nuclear waste in the ocean and we thanked them for it for some reason??

[Edited on April 16, 2021 at 5:35 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2021 5:34:35 PM

Mr Roboto
All American
809 Posts
user info
edit post

^Domo arigato!

4/16/2021 6:22:12 PM

StTexan
All American
1860 Posts
user info
edit post

4/16/2021 7:54:13 PM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
17982 Posts
user info
edit post

Industrialization in the United States included things like "the abolition of slavery." Modern Chinese human rights violations include starting it back up again.

Throwing around per capita statistics with China adds nothing to the discussion. Having a few hundred million subsistence farmers does wonders to bring down one's per capita emissions, etc.

Industrial espionage no doubt exists to some extent everywhere, but in China it's state policy as opposed to something you can be successfully sued over.

Quote :
"We don't exactly have a great history of honoring treaties/international agreements - why would we conjure one up that doesn't even exist to start a global conflict?"


There are treaties and then there are treaties. The entire global geopolitical order wasn't predicated on our staying in the Paris Climate Accords, but it is built in large part on the notion that we're going protect countries we say we're going to protect. We'll defend Taiwan for a few reasons, including, in ascending order of importance:

1) Notions of human rights/self determination (by far the least important)
2) The immediate strategic advantage of having Taiwan as a counterweight/potential base of operations against China
3) To demonstrate to allies that we really will back them up in a fight, so they should stick with us
4) To demonstrate to adversaries that we really will fight to defend our interests, so they should avoid testing us further

4/16/2021 8:12:12 PM

UJustWait84
All American
25374 Posts
user info
edit post

And people wonder why Bernie Bros are considered by many to be far left radical extremists who support the CCP.

I mean, daave isn't wrong about the fact that it's hypocritical to call out China for human rights abuses when our own LEOs routinely execute unarmed black people in this country, but as Grumpy pointed out, it's laughable to act as if China isn't one of the biggest polluters on the planet. See: the fishing and plastic industries.

Recently, China has done extremely well in terms of infrastructure and creating a massive train network, setting up a 21st century Silk Road, along with opening ports/harbors to developing nations, acting as a slum lord in the process, but I think he needs to spend a bit more time talking to actual Chinese Americans, or let alone Chinese international students who are happy as fuck to be in a COVID shitshow cesspool of America instead of back in China, especially since they're given a free American college education, which has turned out to be quite pricey for most average US citizens.

In many ways, I think Americans have a lot of misdirected hostility towards China, mostly stemming from sheer ignorance exacerbated by right wing talking points, but the Chinese government and its continued South China Sea chest thumping/aggression is not good.

4/19/2021 12:20:40 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

^^
You know as well as I do that the US didn’t actually abolish slavery during the industrial revolution. It continued in many forms and is in fact still legal today.

^
My Bernie Bro days are long gone

As far as how Chinese people feel about China...they overwhelmingly support their government, because the CPC continues to improve living standards every year.

https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf

4/19/2021 6:04:47 PM

UJustWait84
All American
25374 Posts
user info
edit post

^ There's a pretty big difference between Chinese people living in China, and Chinese Americans living in America, along with international Chinese students who make up quite a significant chunk of the student body of the place I teach, but anyway...

Also, LOL @ that Harvard Study. "Public Opinion" isn't really even a thing in many Asian countries, just like democracy isn't. Russians living in Russia seem to overwhelmingly adore Putin, too-- at least if you believe in whatever "polls" and "surveys" that supposedly reflect this claim.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever visited China? Taiwan? Hong Kong?

4/19/2021 7:47:22 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
18164 Posts
user info
edit post

Chinese people in China supporting China is a combination of national pride, propaganda indoctrination, and fear of reprisal in response saying anything negative. Meanwhile in the US, criticizing the government is a national tradition. Most of the first replies to Trump tweets were profanities. Not that that wasn't fully deserved, but kind of unthinkable that this kind of criticism would be allowed in China.

4/19/2021 8:31:52 PM

UJustWait84
All American
25374 Posts
user info
edit post

^ agree with 100% of that, but I'll add one more caveat: Chinese people living in China are enjoying a far more middle-class, modern, and enjoyable life throughout most of the country than 50 years ago, let alone 10. That same sentiment; however, extends to much of the world excluding, of course, nations ravaged by war, natural disasters, civil/political unrest, and...COVID. Coincidentally enough, people living in Vietnam--you know, that awful communist hellhole we failed to 'rescue' from itself- are happier, too.

[Edited on April 19, 2021 at 10:06 PM. Reason : WE are living a worse life than our parents, and some of our grandparents.]

4/19/2021 10:05:35 PM

rwoody
Save TWW
31302 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"WE are living a worse life than our parents, and some of our grandparents."


Feels like you're on Dave's side now

4/19/2021 11:21:53 PM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"Also, LOL @ that Harvard Study. "Public Opinion" isn't really even a thing in many Asian countries, just like democracy isn't. Russians living in Russia seem to overwhelmingly adore Putin, too-- at least if you believe in whatever "polls" and "surveys" that supposedly reflect this claim."


Quote :
"Chinese people in China supporting China is a combination of national pride, propaganda indoctrination, and fear of reprisal in response saying anything negative. Meanwhile in the US, criticizing the government is a national tradition. Most of the first replies to Trump tweets were profanities. Not that that wasn't fully deserved, but kind of unthinkable that this kind of criticism would be allowed in China."


You're allowed to criticize the government in China. You aren't allowed to spread false/dangerous information, incite rebellion, etc. Similar to the US in many ways. Weibo is full of political debate, just like Twitter is in the US. They're stricter about deleting things, sure, but nothing like what you've been told. These two articles talk about open discussion on Weibo, or you could create an account, run it through Google translate, and see for yourself.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2059436419866012
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/44133953.pdf

So to that point, you're certainly allowed to honestly answer a public opinion survey from Harvard University.

Quote :
"Feels like you're on Dave's side now"


Can't argue against facts. While we do have it better in the US in most ways (unless you're black, indigenous, trans, undocumented, etc), our quality of life is getting worse, and the opposite is true in China.

[Edited on April 20, 2021 at 12:37 AM. Reason : .]

4/20/2021 12:33:35 AM

UJustWait84
All American
25374 Posts
user info
edit post

Way to conveniently ignore my earlier question. 100% obvious you’ve never actually been to China/HK/Taiwan. If you’ve actually been, you’d know what you just wrote is complete bs- especially regarding your nonsense about being able to openly criticize the government. FOH dude.

4/20/2021 2:17:36 AM

0EPII1
All American
42030 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"You're allowed to criticize the government in China. You aren't allowed to spread false/dangerous information, incite rebellion, etc."


Exactly, like the doctors who first discovered the new virus/disease back in Dec 2019 and made their findings public. What happened to them?

Come on, you can't even publicly say truths that the CCP deems damaging to their image, let alone criticize the government.

The CCP operates by thuggery, and that's exactly what they are, a bunch of thugs.


[Edited on April 20, 2021 at 4:50 AM. Reason : I like you and agree with most of what you say in TSB, but you are very wrong here.]

4/20/2021 4:49:50 AM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
18164 Posts
user info
edit post

TIL you're free to speak out about the government in China. Guess that's why Jimmy Lai got arrested in Hong Kong, which incidentally is supposed to be the freer part of China.

4/20/2021 7:23:52 AM

daaave
All American
1144 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"Exactly, like the doctors who first discovered the new virus/disease back in Dec 2019 and made their findings public. What happened to them?"


They were censured for leaking unconfirmed information and released. The government later admitted they had made a mistake and for the one who died of COVID, issued an apology to his family.

Quote :
"Come on, you can't even publicly say truths that the CCP deems damaging to their image, let alone criticize the government."


You literally can, as I just showed you all with the two scholarly articles that analyze political discussion on the Chinese internet.

Quote :
"TIL you're free to speak out about the government in China. Guess that's why Jimmy Lai got arrested in Hong Kong, which incidentally is supposed to be the freer part of China."


Lai is the HK version of the My Pillow guy. He's a rich asshole who was inciting open, violent rebellion, and conspired with US government officials to do so.

Meanwhile, protestors in Denver are facing decades in prison for legitimately peaceful protests.

https://www.denverdefense.org/about

4/20/2021 11:57:42 AM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
18164 Posts
user info
edit post

Now you're just trolling, guy. I'm done.

4/20/2021 7:49:51 PM

UJustWait84
All American
25374 Posts
user info
edit post

^ he's never even been to HK/China/Taiwan, yet he "knows" better than everyone else

4/21/2021 4:41:47 PM

Bullet
All American
25855 Posts
user info
edit post

(I'm not taking a side here, but just because you've visited a place doesn't mean you know more about that place than someone who hasn't visited)

4/21/2021 5:06:15 PM

rwoody
Save TWW
31302 Posts
user info
edit post

"yea i'm gonna listen to YOU on north Korea over Dennis Rodman "

Regardless of who is right only one person is posting independent sources/data, everyone else is just posting their own anecdotal opinions

[Edited on April 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM. Reason : He is posting opinions too of course ]

4/21/2021 5:18:40 PM

 Message Boards » The Soap Box » World War 3 - who will be on which side? Page 1 2 3 [4] 5, Prev Next  
go to top | |
Admin Options : move topic | lock topic

© 2021 by The Wolf Web - All Rights Reserved.
The material located at this site is not endorsed, sponsored or provided by or on behalf of North Carolina State University.
Powered by CrazyWeb v2.38 - our disclaimer.