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dmspack
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getting to play NIT games in Reynolds is a pretty decent consolation to missing the NCAAT. but it's just that...a consolation.

3/29/2019 12:54:22 PM

rwoody
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Yea somebody asked me if I'd rather win the NIT or lose in Dayton or real first sound, I said def the latter. Nobody anywhere gives a shit about winning the NIT. Can anyone say who won last year without looking it up?

However being able to say "made tourney X years in a row" or "x out of last y years" or something is a selling point for the season.

The NIT is like most bowl games, a (sometimes) fun exhibition. You want to win, bc winning is better than losing, and its extra practice time, but otherwise it's pretty meaningless.

3/29/2019 3:27:42 PM

Dynasty2004
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Penn State

3/29/2019 5:10:43 PM

dmspack
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I, too, knew PSU was the defending NIT champs. But only because they were in our OOC schedule this year.

3/29/2019 5:44:15 PM

TreeTwista10
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I'd rather win 5 postseason games in a row than lose our first game on a Tuesday or Wednesday

3/29/2019 6:22:19 PM

rwoody
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Egg--->my face

(but still)

3/29/2019 6:22:48 PM

hey now
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I’m with Woody on this one.

3/29/2019 7:24:00 PM

TreeTwista10
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We've never won the NIT so I don't know what that would be like. We have lost a play-in game, and that wasn't much fun.

3/29/2019 7:52:47 PM

bdmazur
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I remember a long time ago UNC won both the preseason and postseason NIT tournaments and were bragging pretty hard about it. That's how I knew it didn't mean anything.

3/29/2019 8:21:16 PM

TreeTwista10
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The only time UNC won an (postseason) NIT tournament was 1971, so you must have a great memory

[Edited on March 29, 2019 at 8:52 PM. Reason : and yes, i had to look that up]

3/29/2019 8:48:45 PM

dweedle
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People say "nobody remembers who won the NIT last year" but do they remember who lost in Dayton last year?

3/29/2019 8:57:57 PM

synapse
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I'd rather win the NIT.

I bet the players would prefer the same.

3/29/2019 9:00:53 PM

BJCaudill21
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Looks like the auburn win was a pretty good win (jinx?)

3/29/2019 9:01:52 PM

packboozie
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You guys serious? Making the dance >>>>> anything else

3/29/2019 9:29:07 PM

TreeTwista10
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If you get more pleasure from watching the Selection Sunday show than actual basketball, then sure, it's always better to go 0-1 in the NCAA than 5-0 in the NIT

even though in both scenarios, you're a bubble team

Sweet 16 or better is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> winning the NIT. But I don't get the hard-on for MAKING the tourney if you aren't even going to advance to the round of 64. Last year was kind of an exception, because after 2 bad final Gottfried years, it was nice to make the tourney during Keatt's first season. But how much did that help us this year?

[Edited on March 29, 2019 at 9:35 PM. Reason : .]

3/29/2019 9:31:34 PM

packboozie
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You get to say you are a tournament team and add it to the number of appearances.

There is a reason nobody gives a shit about the NIT.

3/29/2019 9:51:31 PM

TreeTwista10
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do you hang a banner when you lose a play-in game?

3/29/2019 9:53:56 PM

rwoody
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Winning the NIT is basically the 69th place game. While that may be #nice, nobody cares

Just think about trying to talk shit, "haha y'all lost in the first round but we won the NIT" "Yea at least we made the tourney" "....."

[Edited on March 29, 2019 at 9:57 PM. Reason : You don't always have to be contrarian ]

3/29/2019 9:57:03 PM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"somebody asked me if I'd rather win the NIT or lose in Dayton or real first sound, I said def the latter."


so that is from the perspective of being able to talk shit, not actually enjoying watching your team play more basketball

[Edited on March 29, 2019 at 9:58 PM. Reason : lol at me being contrarian, when your whole reasoning is being able to talk shit ]

3/29/2019 9:58:07 PM

rwoody
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I'd much rather watch my team play meaningful basketball not exhibition. NIT is an exhibition.

3/29/2019 10:00:25 PM

TreeTwista10
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Literally nobody has said they'd rather play in the NIT than play in the NCAA

3/29/2019 10:01:48 PM

rwoody
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1 real game is better than 5 exhibition games

3/29/2019 10:15:21 PM

TreeTwista10
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Last I checked, NIT games count towards Keatts' record, Markell's career stats, etc. So not sure how it's an "exhibition"

Regardless, you're entitled to your opinion

3/29/2019 10:18:01 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"While that may be #nice, nobody cares "


Perhaps it doesn't score well in the all or nothing geared middle-aged dad-bod basketball fan set, but I'm sure the players care.

[Edited on March 29, 2019 at 10:20 PM. Reason : it ain't no fucking exhibition ]

3/29/2019 10:20:07 PM

dweedle
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I've always felt like if you lose in Dayton then it's like you didn't deserve being selected at all lol

3/29/2019 10:32:19 PM

rwoody
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The players would always rather win whether than lose, obviously, same for me. But my guess is the players would prefer to go to the real tournament

Chris Bosh was on bill Simmons talking about being in the NIT and how it was bullshit. He's retired though, so maybe he has a dad bod.

3/29/2019 10:56:42 PM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"But my guess is the players would prefer to go to the real tournament"


Who has said they would rather go to the NIT than the real tournament? Oh yeah, nobody.

3/29/2019 10:57:58 PM

rwoody
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Vs winning the NIT? Do i have to restate the whole argument every time so you can follow?

Do you think a player that loses in the first round of ncaa is jealous of a player that wins the NIT?

3/29/2019 11:00:04 PM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"Do i have to restate the whole argument every time so you can follow?"


yes, since you keep moving the goalposts

3/29/2019 11:01:35 PM

rwoody
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My argument every time is that most fans players and coaches would rather make the NCAA tourney even if they lose in the first round, vs winning the NIT. I have no other argument. Any moved goal post you see is, I guess, me not clearly stating that position.

3/29/2019 11:05:04 PM

TreeTwista10
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This is the first time you've presented it as "even if they lose in the first round." Your initial question assumed a definite loss. Sorry we're not mind readers.

But if you're giving me two specific options:

1) making the NCAA and going 0-1
2) making the NIT and going 5-0

I'm taking option 2.

3/29/2019 11:09:06 PM

rwoody
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Those are the options I present

Its a tough hypothetical bc people don't want to "choose to lose". But I prefer the experience of the real tournament even if it results in heartbreak. The NIT just feels fake I guess.

Im curious if answers would be the same with an NIT final, semifinal or quarter final loss.

[Edited on March 29, 2019 at 11:21 PM. Reason : I also think option 1 is better for the program ]

[Edited on March 29, 2019 at 11:21 PM. Reason : E]

3/29/2019 11:21:11 PM

TreeTwista10
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I'd probably take one-and-done in the big dance over losing in the NIT championship game.

But I'd also argue that playing 5 postseason NIT games gives a team better experience than playing 1 postseason game in the real tourney. That also means winning 4 of them, and winning can be contagious.

I also might undervalue "making the tournament" more than others. I don't know how many recruits are going to pick State over another P5 school because we made X tournaments in the last Y years, unless we're winning a few games every now and then. I'm sure it helps against some schools, but I don't think simply making the tournament and losing the first game is a major selling point to a potential recruit.

and to dweedle's point, losing a play-in game can give the perception that you didn't deserve to make the tournament, whereas winning the NIT would give the perception that the committee messed up by leaving us out

[Edited on March 29, 2019 at 11:31 PM. Reason : add another note]

3/29/2019 11:25:14 PM

rwoody
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Fair. I mentioned the experience thing when talking to my buddy too, it's extra playing time just like a shitty bowl game. oh whoops I said that at the top of the page too.

I think, as a fan, it's also the constant counting vs UNC and Duke. In that counting, number of tourneys made would come up, I don't think winning the NIT would.

I've got some buddies that walked on at smaller schools might have to ask.

I was trying to think of another sport comparison, all I could think was: who is happier with their season in college football this year Ohio state (missed playoff but won prestigious bowl game) or Oklahoma/notre dame (made playoff but lost first game, and in one case got stomped).

[Edited on March 29, 2019 at 11:33 PM. Reason : E]

3/29/2019 11:32:41 PM

TreeTwista10
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I couldn't think of a good analogy from another sport either

3/29/2019 11:36:35 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"But my guess is the players would prefer to go to the real tournament"


Current discussion is winning the NIT vs losing in the first round, not preferring which post-season tournament they playing in.

Quote :
"But if you're giving me two specific options:

1) making the NCAA and going 0-1
2) making the NIT and going 5-0

I'm taking option 2."


Same here.

[Edited on March 30, 2019 at 12:04 AM. Reason : ^^^ yup, all that.]

[Edited on March 30, 2019 at 12:11 AM. Reason : there i fixed it]

3/30/2019 12:02:58 AM

rwoody
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My first statement said "Dayton or first round" and Dayton IS the NCAA tournament.

And you took the quote out of context

[Edited on March 30, 2019 at 12:08 AM. Reason : E]

3/30/2019 12:06:53 AM

synapse
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And your first statement also included:

Quote :
"Nobody anywhere gives a shit about winning the NIT."


And I argue our players feel otherwise.

3/30/2019 12:39:15 AM

rwoody
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Cool

Players want to win rather than lose no shit. But no player has dreams of winning the NIT and its a common issue/worry that NIT teams, especially high majors, will be checked out.

3/30/2019 12:47:27 AM

TreeTwista10
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If we had gotten better news last Sunday, I might have a different answer to the question. But I enjoyed our post-season run this year because, why not enjoy it? Obviously 100% of the fans would prefer the better tourney, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy winning some games in a exhibition lesser tournament. Luckily Keatts convinced the team of the same thing, because no matter if you'd prefer NCAA one-and-done or NIT title, losing an NIT opener because you're apathetic about the NIT not meaning anything is the worst look of all.

3/30/2019 12:52:04 AM

rwoody
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Well yea i was probably overstating not wanting to watch exhibition games bc I've gone to plenty of actual nc state exhibition games. Most years I'd rather have the NIT then nothing. This year was a little tougher bc it felt like bullshit that we didn't make the tourney. I skipped the first game bc I didn't care that much but knew I would be pissed to watch a checked out team. Luckily they were checked in. The Harvard game was fun. Lipscomb got me in "happy to be here" mode and (I thought) I would be fine win or lose, but then NC State shit.

So yea, overall a fun but very frustrating experience

I mean I also went to this year's bowl game, another meaningless exhibition. I had fun there too, up until the game started anyway!

3/30/2019 1:01:32 AM

synapse
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Quote :
"Players want to win rather than lose no shit"


Except you said "Nobody anywhere gives a shit about winning the NIT"

Which is categorically false.

Quote :
" I enjoyed our post-season run this year because, why not enjoy it?"


Same here. Was awesome to enjoy some "exhibition" wins in Reynolds. I think everyone who was there with me feels the same.

3/30/2019 1:02:40 AM

rwoody
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How about this, nobody outside the NIT cares about winning the NIT. Once you're in it simple pride provides a motivation to win. Nobody is going to be bragging about an NIT title though, that's what I mean. Nobody watches an NIT game if their team isn't in it.

Last year I was zero percent jealous of Penn state. I didn't watch a single NIT game last year. I haven't watched a single non nc state nit game this year.

I already addressed the "fun" point which is kinda irrelevant to the discussion anyway.

3/30/2019 1:29:48 AM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"Nobody watches an NIT game if their team isn't in it."


I definitely agree, aside from some purists or random people watching ESPN. And it's not something you use to talk shit about, but it's something you can pull for in a season when you miss out on the tournament that you want.

But I still don't understand the value in making the tournament one particular year, as a bubble team, just to lose your first game, and that somehow gets elite recruits or whatever. Are we going to sway a 4-star prospect away from a team who routinely makes the S16 or E8 by making the tourney a few years in a row? Again, would rather make the tourney than not, but how is this helping our team get better?

3/30/2019 1:45:52 AM

thegoodlife3
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late to all of this bullshit, but

having a chance to win the national championship >>>>>>>>>> winning the NIT

it’s also much better to have made the actual tournament than to boast about success in the NIT

3/30/2019 1:46:20 AM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"having a chance to win the national championship >>>>>>>>>> winning the NIT"


you have 0% chance to win the national championship if the choice is "lose in Dayton or real first sound"

3/30/2019 1:47:53 AM

thegoodlife3
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making the tournament gives you more of a chance of winning the tournament than not making the tournament does

3/30/2019 1:50:17 AM

TreeTwista10
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yep, in reality, but not in rwoody's scenario

lol, you have 0% chance to win either way

[Edited on March 30, 2019 at 1:52 AM. Reason : .]

3/30/2019 1:51:04 AM

thegoodlife3
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it’s better to lose in the tournament that you have a chance to win the national championship in than to have no chance at all

3/30/2019 1:54:57 AM

TreeTwista10
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and that difference can often be a subjective comparison to a few other teams as decided by the selection committee, which side of the bubble do they put you on, because you're a bubble team and that's nothing to be proud of unless you actually win at least a game

3/30/2019 2:23:43 AM

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