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adultswim
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New thread bc it doesn't really fit anywhere

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/us/dsa-socialism-candidates-midterms.html

Quote :
"Supporters, many of them millennials, say they are drawn by D.S.A.’s promise to combat income inequality, which they believe is tainting every facet of American life, from the criminal justice system to medical care to politics. They argue that capitalism has let them down, saddling them with student debt, high rent and uncertain job prospects. And they have been frustrated by the Democratic Party, which they say has lost touch with working people.

Outrage over rising inequality has simmered for years, erupting into the Occupy Wall Street movement and the groundswell of support for Senator Bernie Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist. But it was the election of Mr. Trump that convinced tens of thousands that both parties were broken and that the country was in need of a radical fix.

Since November 2016, D.S.A.’s membership has increased from about 5,000 to 35,000 nationwide. The number of local groups has grown from 40 to 181, including 10 in Texas. Houston’s once-dormant chapter now has nearly 300 members.

“We want to see money stop controlling everything. That includes politics,” said Amy Zachmeyer, 34, a union organizer who helped revive the moribund Houston chapter. “That just resonates with millennials who are making less money than their parents did, are less able to buy a home and drowning in student debt.”

Ms. Zachmeyer, who pays about $1,000 a month in student loans, says that financial burden helped convince her to become a socialist.

Studies suggest that young people with few memories of the Cold War embrace socialism far more than older people do. A 2016 survey of 18- to 29-year-olds by Harvard’s Institute of Politics found that 16 percent identified as socialists, while 33 percent supported socialism. Only 42 percent supported capitalism, while a majority — 51 percent — said they did not.

Those results surprised John Della Volpe, the institute’s director of polling, so much that he thought they might be a mistake. He conducted a new study, this time of the general population, and got the same result.

“The only group that expressed net positive support for capitalism were people over 50 years old,” he said. “The largest generation of Americans in history — millennials — have lost confidence. They are interested in finding a better way.”"


Bonus leftist things, without getting too in depth:

Podcasts
Citations Needed - http://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/
Intercepted - https://theintercept.com/podcasts/
Chapo Trap House - https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house
Radio War Nerd - https://www.patreon.com/radiowarnerd

Journalism
Jacobin (and Catalyst) - https://jacobinmag.com/
The Intercept - https://theintercept.com/
Dissent - https://www.dissentmagazine.org/
Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting - https://fair.org/

Organizations
DSA - http://www.dsausa.org/
Green Party - http://www.gp.org/
Movement for a People's Party - https://www.forapeoplesparty.org/
Poor People's Campaign - https://www.poorpeoplescampaign.org/
Industrial Workers of the World - https://www.iww.org/
Our Revolution (debatable) - https://ourrevolution.com/

4/20/2018 12:16:41 PM

JesusHChrist
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Full disclosure, I'm a member of DSA (was debating joining that vs IWW, which I may still join). I'm not as active in it as I'd like to be, but it is a solid organization (only costs around $40 a year). It will flood the shit out of your inbox, though, and I'd say about once every other week, I'll get a text message asking if I can do whatever it is they are organizing for the weekend (passing out fliers for anti-eviction measures, etc)

+1 for Citations Needed podcast. I'd recommend following them on Twitter as well.

4/20/2018 2:41:40 PM

adultswim
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^
IWW is too expensive for me atm. Planning to join up with DSA at the Medicare for All rally in Denver on Sunday. I'm pretty guilty of armchair activism but trying to change that.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/20/yanis-varoufakis-marx-crisis-communist-manifesto

NYT promoting socialism and The Guardian promoting communism in the same day?? This one is an excellent (long) read.

Quote :
"While we owe capitalism for having reduced all class distinctions to the gulf between owners and non-owners, Marx and Engels want us to realise that capitalism is insufficiently evolved to survive the technologies it spawns. It is our duty to tear away at the old notion of privately owned means of production and force a metamorphosis, which must involve the social ownership of machinery, land and resources. Now, when new technologies are unleashed in societies bound by the primitive labour contract, wholesale misery follows. In the manifesto’s unforgettable words: “A society that has conjured up such gigantic means of production and of exchange, is like the sorcerer who is no longer able to control the powers of the nether world whom he has called up by his spells.”

The sorcerer will always imagine that their apps, search engines, robots and genetically engineered seeds will bring wealth and happiness to all. But, once released into societies divided between wage labourers and owners, these technological marvels will push wages and prices to levels that create low profits for most businesses. It is only big tech, big pharma and the few corporations that command exceptionally large political and economic power over us that truly benefit. If we continue to subscribe to labour contracts between employer and employee, then private property rights will govern and drive capital to inhuman ends. Only by abolishing private ownership of the instruments of mass production and replacing it with a new type of common ownership that works in sync with new technologies, will we lessen inequality and find collective happiness."


Quote :
"The manifesto argues that the problem with capitalism is not that it produces too much technology, or that it is unfair. Capitalism’s problem is that it is irrational. Capital’s success at spreading its reach via accumulation for accumulation’s sake is causing human workers to work like machines for a pittance, while the robots are programmed to produce stuff that the workers can no longer afford and the robots do not need. Capital fails to make rational use of the brilliant machines it engenders, condemning whole generations to deprivation, a decrepit environment, underemployment and zero real leisure from the pursuit of employment and general survival. Even capitalists are turned into angst-ridden automatons. They live in permanent fear that unless they commodify their fellow humans, they will cease to be capitalists – joining the desolate ranks of the expanding precariat-proletariat.

If capitalism appears unjust it is because it enslaves everyone, rich and poor, wasting human and natural resources. The same “production line” that pumps out untold wealth also produces deep unhappiness and discontent on an industrial scale. So, our first task – according to the manifesto – is to recognise the tendency of this all-conquering “energy” to undermine itself."

4/20/2018 4:07:24 PM

tulsigabbard
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing-patients-a-sustainable-business-model.html
Quote :
"Goldman Sachs analysts attempted to address a touchy subject for biotech companies, especially those involved in the pioneering "gene therapy" treatment: cures could be bad for business in the long run.

"Is curing patients a sustainable business model?" analysts ask in an April 10 report entitled "The Genome Revolution."

"The potential to deliver 'one shot cures' is one of the most attractive aspects of gene therapy, genetically-engineered cell therapy and gene editing. However, such treatments offer a very different outlook with regard to recurring revenue versus chronic therapies," analyst Salveen Richter wrote in the note to clients Tuesday. "While this proposition carries tremendous value for patients and society, it could represent a challenge for genome medicine developers looking for sustained cash flow.""

4/21/2018 8:19:06 PM

nacstate
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7P4iFg048k

"Ain't no money in the cure, the money's in the medicine...that's how a drug dealer makes his money, on the comeback."

[Edited on April 23, 2018 at 8:42 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2018 8:42:05 AM

adultswim
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This is a really great interview, and easy to digest unlike many Marxist scholars

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/21/marxist-scholar-david-harvey-on-trump-wall-street-and-debt-peonage/

4/25/2018 2:58:36 PM

JesusHChrist
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I'll see your Intercept, and raise you a Chapo (which you've probably already listened to):

https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-186-executive-producer-feat-richard-wolff-21818

4/25/2018 10:19:13 PM

adultswim
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i need to go back to it. he rattles off a lot of economic junk i don't know about.

4/26/2018 5:55:59 PM

rjrumfel
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Not sure where else to put this, but has anyone else read up on this new "head tax" that Seattle is imposing on it's largest employers?

I just wonder what goes through politicians heads when they come up with these types of feel-good measures? Do they honestly think that companies are just going to sit there and take it? When you have people and businesses fleeing NY and CA because of the heavy tax burden, Seattle just packs it on.

$500/employee for any business making 20 million+ in revenue. *shakes head*

This money will go to combat homelessness. A noble cause for sure, but it is going to backfire.

5/16/2018 9:22:15 AM

dtownral
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why shouldn't large companies that are partially responsible for housing issues pay a tax to combat housing issues?

Also it's $275/year

5/16/2018 9:42:17 AM

TerdFerguson
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Quote :
"When you have people and businesses fleeing NY and CA because of the heavy tax burden, Seattle just packs it on."


You should start by reviewing the economic and population data for NY, CA, and WA, then compare it to “pro-business” states like Kansas or Wisconsin, and then report back.

5/16/2018 9:55:54 AM

dtownral
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also, does rjrumfel think seattle is in ny or ca?

5/16/2018 10:07:15 AM

HCH
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I love the left's new logic that businesses are now partly responsible for homelessness.

5/16/2018 10:20:27 AM

thegoodlife3
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BOOTSTRAPS

5/16/2018 10:34:34 AM

adultswim
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Quote :
"I just wonder what goes through politicians heads when they come up with these types of feel-good measures? Do they honestly think that companies are just going to sit there and take it? When you have people and businesses fleeing NY and CA because of the heavy tax burden, Seattle just packs it on."


What benefit does Amazon provide to the average person in Seattle? Their blue collar jobs are notoriously oppressive, they buy up entire blocks of the city without accounting for gentrification, and they lobby against measures that would combat any of this.

5/16/2018 10:48:36 AM

adultswim
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In other news:

https://twitter.com/PhillyDSA/status/996593146845855744

Quote :
"Congratulations to the FOUR (4!) State House candidates backed by @pghDSA and Philly DSA- @summerforpa, @Innamo, @Fiedler4Philly, + @ServeThe168th- that won their primaries tonight! And thank you to all the DSA organizers who helped make this possible! We have a world to win!"


One of these races was against a 5-term incumbent, lol.

Jess King also won the primary for the US house, but that one was uncontested bc the DCCC was scared.

5/16/2018 10:56:44 AM

HCH
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Quote :
"What benefit does Amazon provide to the average person in Seattle?"

A paycheck

5/16/2018 11:19:20 AM

dtownral
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the average person in seattle doesn't receive a paycheck from amazon

5/16/2018 11:22:02 AM

adultswim
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HCH is too much of a bootlicker to listen to arguments on this, so these are for rjrumfel:

https://ilsr.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2017/01/AmazonLaborFactSheet_FINAL.pdf

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17243026/amazon-warehouse-jobs-worker-conditions-bathroom-breaks

[Edited on May 16, 2018 at 11:35 AM. Reason : .]

5/16/2018 11:34:08 AM

Dentaldamn
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Which buisnesses are fleeing NYC? The only reason people are fleeing is bc a 1bed apt in bushwick costs 700k.

5/16/2018 12:38:43 PM

LoneSnark
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Quote :
"why shouldn't large companies that are partially responsible for housing issues pay a tax to combat housing issues?"

How are they at all responsible? Their employees were going to live somewhere, so they were going to need housing somewhere. I guess it is their fault for not fleeing to the suburbs like they're supposed to?

No, the fault of the housing problem lies entirely with government land use laws. If Seattle eliminate its green belts and many other ridiculous rules, then new housing would be built and fix the housing shortage for a profit.

Quote :
"The only reason people are fleeing is bc a 1bed apt in bushwick costs 700k."

That is a good enough reason for me.

[Edited on May 16, 2018 at 1:06 PM. Reason : .,.]

5/16/2018 1:06:06 PM

dtownral
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why would developers build affordable housing when they can build expensive housing?

5/16/2018 1:13:42 PM

rjrumfel
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Not sure why anyone would question my geographical capabilities. I was simply comparing other states with similar policies regarding taxation. And I could imagine that Amazon is like Walmart when it comes to its blue collar workers. I'm in IT, so when I view Amazon, I view it from the perspective of AWS, where there would be more professional type jobs.

Regardless, the housing problem in Seattle has nothing whatsoever to do with its employers, outside of maybe bringing people into the city limits to work. Seattle's land use policies and building codes are ridiculous, which helps make housing difficult to obtain. Besides, there are many in Seattle's homeless community that are mentally ill. Why should the burden to house them go to large employers? What skin in the game do they have for the mentally ill, other than just being a good corporate citizen?

5/16/2018 1:50:06 PM

dtownral
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to offset their contribution to gentrification, which displaces people and raises prices

5/16/2018 1:54:56 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"When you have people and businesses fleeing NY and CA because of the heavy tax burden"


Do tell


[Edited on May 16, 2018 at 1:57 PM. Reason : wait let me guess, american god-fearing tax payers are leaving and the welfare/handout lovers and illegals are moving in, causing the population growth?]

5/16/2018 1:56:24 PM

thegoodlife3
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I just can’t imagine stanning like this for corporations

5/16/2018 1:58:43 PM

rjrumfel
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It's not that I'm standing up for corporations, it just seems to me like a useless cash grab that would punish corporations for being successful. I mean if I were Amazon, why would I stay there and get this extra tax out of nowhere, when I could go to states like NC who is throwing money at me to come?

Sure Amazon treats their people poorly, but is it worse than no job at all? I don't know. I'm from a town where all the blue collar jobs just up and R U N N O F T and it was pretty hard on the blue collar community. (Textiles and Gastonia FTR)

ok - not all of the blue collar jobs, but a pretty important industry that dried up)

[Edited on May 16, 2018 at 2:10 PM. Reason : ))]

5/16/2018 2:09:00 PM

NyM410
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Quote :
"Which buisnesses are fleeing NYC? "


Tbf, a lot of financials are moving to Hudson Yards which is basically South Dakota.

[Edited on May 16, 2018 at 2:09 PM. Reason : X]

5/16/2018 2:09:22 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
" useless cash grab"


aaaaand there we have it, capitalists think helping homeless is useless

5/16/2018 2:14:07 PM

adultswim
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Quote :
"Regardless, the housing problem in Seattle has nothing whatsoever to do with its employers, outside of maybe bringing people into the city limits to work. Seattle's land use policies and building codes are ridiculous, which helps make housing difficult to obtain. Besides, there are many in Seattle's homeless community that are mentally ill. Why should the burden to house them go to large employers? What skin in the game do they have for the mentally ill, other than just being a good corporate citizen?"


Do you think the government should be responsible for ensuring affordable housing is available to those who need it? Just asking bc if not it changes the whole debate.

5/16/2018 2:18:31 PM

LoneSnark
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Quote :
"why would developers build affordable housing when they can build expensive housing?"

Right. Build. Right now they cannot build either form of housing, so those that can afford it are bidding those that cannot out of having housing. Building more mansions would actually help fix the problem.

5/16/2018 2:50:13 PM

dtownral
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yes, building more mansions would help the homeless. some true free market genius shit at work right there.

5/16/2018 2:54:29 PM

adultswim
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Holy shit, please look at Seattle on Google Maps and tell me where they should build thousands more mansions. In parks? Maybe they could fill in Lake Washington.

5/16/2018 2:57:26 PM

Dentaldamn
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Quote :
"Tbf, a lot of financials are moving to Hudson Yards which is basically South Dakota."


they better start loving the 7 train.

Also construction in manhattan is around $350 a square foot. Its not a matter of building cheap or expensive housing. Everything just starts expensive.

5/16/2018 3:04:59 PM

dtownral
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which is why the government has to fill the role when it comes to affordable housing, there isn't a free market incentive to give a shit about it

5/16/2018 3:10:39 PM

LoneSnark
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Quote :
"Holy shit, please look at Seattle on Google Maps and tell me where they should build thousands more mansions. In parks? Maybe they could fill in Lake Washington."

The government publishes maps of what land it is illegal to build upon. Let me google that for you:
https://www.kingcounty.gov/property/permits/codes/growth/GMPC/~/media/property/permits/documents/GrowthManagement/CPP_ugb_gmpc_Map.ashx

Fact is, the cities with insane housing prices have urban growth boundaries (UGBs). Not all cities have used up their available UGBs, so many cities with UGBs do not have insane housing prices. However, no city without a UGB has insane housing prices.

That said, poor people move away or get roommates, they don't become homeless. In general, homelessness doesn't have much to do with the housing shortage and far more to do with mental health.

[Edited on May 16, 2018 at 11:23 PM. Reason : lnk]

5/16/2018 11:22:57 PM

Dentaldamn
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If you’re a single monther with 2+ kids in Brooklyn and you get evicted from your apartment.......yr homeless now. There are thousands and these situations right now in NYC.

Also from a quick search, cities with UGBs arnt excessive expensive. Minneapolis, Lexington and Virginia Beach being three.

5/16/2018 11:51:23 PM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"capitalists think helping homeless is useless"


says the guy who wants homeless kicked out of Moore Square

5/16/2018 11:58:36 PM

LoneSnark
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^^ I said that myself. Much of the time, UGBs are so big they have no measurable effect upon the city, a reality we would expect to find. But houses selling for $700k right next door to undeveloped (green) land and the only difference is crossing an arbitrary boundary on a map...seems to me that boundary is having an effect.

[Edited on May 17, 2018 at 12:09 AM. Reason : .,.]

5/17/2018 12:08:10 AM

synapse
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Still waiting for rjrumple's data showing the masses fleeing two of the most populous states in the union.

5/17/2018 12:28:29 AM

HCH
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For the first time in Gallup's measurement over the past decade, Democrats have a more positive image of socialism than they do of capitalism.

Quote :
"https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/democrats-positive-socialism-capitalism.aspx"


This is insane. Capitalism now has a more than hundred year record of feeding the hungry, lifting people all over the world out of extreme poverty, and giving us countless technology. Socialism has the same lengthy record of doing the opposite.

It would be nice if there was like this profession whose job it is to inform people so everyone would understand how much better things have gotten over the past century so people aren't wanting to constantly cut off their nose to spite their face.

No one knows how much better things have gotten in the poorest parts of the world because no one actually cares what goes on there... they just like to pretend to care. Except for capitalists. They actually care because they can get richer making things better.

At this point, we shouldn't even be legitimizing socialists by debating them. They should instead just be put in stocks and have tomatoes thrown at them. And we should charge $5 a tomato because capitalism.

8/13/2018 11:14:04 AM

dtownral
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you need a history lesson and a passport

8/13/2018 11:17:36 AM

HCH
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First stop, Venezuela.

8/13/2018 11:22:54 AM

rjrumfel
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The thing that gets me about proponents of socialism is scale.

They look at all these quaint European countries as examples, but those countries barely have the populations of most American states. We have no idea what it would be like to role out some type of socialism on the scale that the US would have to endure.

I have yet to see a good extrapolation of socialism in this country vs the closest thing to socialism somewhere else.

8/13/2018 11:35:00 AM

Shrike
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Quote :
"Attitudes toward socialism among Democrats have not changed materially since 2010, with 57% today having a positive view. The major change among Democrats has been a less upbeat attitude toward capitalism, dropping to 47% positive this year -- lower than in any of the three previous measures. "


Gee, I wonder what happened between 2016 and now that caused such a swing among Democrats :thinkingemoji:

8/13/2018 11:35:27 AM

dtownral
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Quote :
"First stop, Venezuela."

yawn

such a lazy and ill-informed response. very predictable though.

go do some reading

8/13/2018 12:03:27 PM

rjrumfel
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^ To be fair to him though, it is somewhat difficult to draw the line in Venezuela where the socialist policies of Chavez helped/hurt, vs the policies of the latter president. It's hard to tell what messed everything up. Pro-socialist sentiment will tell you that Chavez was a savior of the people and everything was going fine until the new guy, but then the pro-capitalist sentiment will say that Chavez's huge spending and domestic price controls are what helped lead Venezuela to its current crisis. Whether Maduro is at fault or not, the current president always gets the blame or accolade.

Regardless, Chavez spent like there was no tomorrow because during his time, Venezuela's oil exports were going great and there was no reason to think that would ever change.

But it changed.

8/13/2018 12:12:46 PM

adultswim
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Quote :
"The thing that gets me about proponents of socialism is scale.

They look at all these quaint European countries as examples, but those countries barely have the populations of most American states. We have no idea what it would be like to role out some type of socialism on the scale that the US would have to endure.

I have yet to see a good extrapolation of socialism in this country vs the closest thing to socialism somewhere else."


Dude, we already have socialism. Schools, firefighters, Medicare, USPS, libraries, roads, etc. It's easily expandable.

8/13/2018 12:13:04 PM

Dentaldamn
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When ever I start to doubt the merits of socialism I look towards the largest socialist organization on the planet: The United States Military.

VA could use some work tho.

8/13/2018 12:19:46 PM

dtownral
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^^^ no, it's lazy. if you think it's a vaild point then explain why numerous failed capitalist states don't mean that capitalism is bad. many of those answers will be the same response to venezeula.

[Edited on August 13, 2018 at 12:28 PM. Reason : .]

8/13/2018 12:26:58 PM

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