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rwoody
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Based on last night, he might die before he finishes the season if gordon or Paul don't come back soon. Would dieing a few game before the end of the season hurt his mvp chance?

1/17/2019 5:17:40 PM

stowaway
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^^ this. Getting fouled on about 12 shot attempts a night and going to the line 20+ times doesn't always help the team win.

1/17/2019 5:22:19 PM

rwoody
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What. When does drawing fouls not help a team win?

He's 1) scoring, 2) getting other team in foul trouble, 3) getting his team in the bonus, so more of (1)

Ive heard the "boring" or "ruining the game" arguments because this is the first time ive heard its bad for the team

1/17/2019 5:30:47 PM

stowaway
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Iso ball hasn't won in years. His usage is way too high compared to any player on a recent championship or even contending team.

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 6:44 PM. Reason : Hdgdh]

1/17/2019 6:42:56 PM

thegoodlife3
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he’s the only reason they’ll be in the playoffs. it’s legitimately the only way they can play and win.

1/17/2019 7:24:26 PM

rwoody
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That's not what you said. You said getting 20 fts a game is bad.

But no shit his usage rate is sustainable, Rockets are just hoping he can win enough until capela Paul and Gordon get back. Nobody would expect the current iteration of the team to contend for a championship.

1/17/2019 7:29:18 PM

UJustWait84
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Harden is clearly the best offensive player of this generation IMO."


Better than Lebron? Better than KD? Better than Curry?

Yeah, no. He’s great at getting to the line (would’ve KILLED it on any Duke squad) and elevating the play of his teammates, but you can’t seriously call him the best when hasn’t even won a title. He’s better than Westbrook tho

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 7:40 PM. Reason : Whoops forgot about OKC- seems like forever ago ]

1/17/2019 7:36:13 PM

thegoodlife3
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yes

winning a title has no bearing on being the greatest offensive player of your generation

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 7:42 PM. Reason : .]

1/17/2019 7:41:43 PM

UJustWait84
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He’s not a better shooter than Curry
He’s not a better scorer than Durant
He’s nowhere near as athletic and talented as Lebron.

This is silly.

1/17/2019 7:46:11 PM

rwoody
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Is he a better scorer than Durant? I don't know but he is scoring more than Durant ever has while averaging way more assists than Durant ever has. Seems pretty good to me.

Not sure why he has to be a better shooter or more athletic/talented.

He is doing things offensively that only like wilt, Kareem, Jordan and Kobe can compare too. Stats wise anyway.

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 8:00 PM. Reason : E]

I mean you can argue about it, it's purely qualitative and opinion based, but to act like he's not even in the conversation is, well, silly

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 8:07 PM. Reason : E]

1/17/2019 7:59:42 PM

TreeTwista10
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I'd like to see some kind of metrics that compare things other than FTs because he's a total bitch when it comes to that part of the game

1/17/2019 8:27:36 PM

rwoody
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I'd like a metric that looks at defensive metrics that don't include steals bc i think stealing is wrong

1/17/2019 8:39:24 PM

TreeTwista10
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yeah, because there are so many complaints about players getting away with too many steals in the NBA

how about compare his 2PT and 3PT percentages, eFG, etc with other all time greats without having to look at subjective things like superstars getting foul calls?

1/17/2019 8:46:14 PM

UJustWait84
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He’s playing out of his mind right now. No one is arguing otherwise. But I’m not even sure what “best overall offensive player” really means, other than posting great stats during the past 3-4 regular seasons. He’s been in the league the exact length of time as Curry and hasn’t won a title, so I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with you.

1/17/2019 8:47:45 PM

justinh524
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Quote :
"
Better than Lebron? Better than KD? Better than Curry?

Yeah, no. He’s great at getting to the line (would’ve KILLED it on any Duke squad) and elevating the play of his teammates, but you can’t seriously call him the best when hasn’t even won a title"


Yes, yes, yes. LBJ and KD are better overall because they're better on defense, but neither are as good on offense as Harden. Curry is probably the best shooter of all time, but is light years behind Harden in playmaking ability.

And winning a title has nothing to do with being the best individual offensive player. Hell, he's got his team in playoff contention this year and there is no one else in this team playing remotely efficient on offense.

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 9:07 PM. Reason : We get it, muh dubs are all the greatest players ever]

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 9:08 PM. Reason : https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/a9ojjc/per_100_possessions_james_harden_is_averaging_44/?st=JQ]

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 9:09 PM. Reason : It's cool, you just keep hating on this dude having historic offensive seasons bc you don't like him]

1/17/2019 9:07:07 PM

rwoody
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^^^lol

1/17/2019 9:23:09 PM

TreeTwista10
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also, what's "this generation?" Is Nash in this generation? We know Shaq is disqualified since free throws are too important to leave out.

1/17/2019 9:41:51 PM

rwoody
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It's so weird the way you feel people are required to justify their sports opinions to you with hard facts, data and definitions

1/17/2019 9:54:58 PM

TreeTwista10
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such an objective Rockets fan

1/17/2019 9:57:11 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"Is Nash in this generation?"


Steve Nash was drafted in 1996

1/17/2019 10:00:50 PM

TreeTwista10
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Is there a consensus answer on how long a generation is in sports?

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 10:11 PM. Reason : Harden and Nash were both in the league for a concurrent 5 year period]

1/17/2019 10:07:52 PM

thegoodlife3
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6-8 years?

1/17/2019 10:11:31 PM

TreeTwista10
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I dunno, I just think it's funny that we're using very specific and quantitative formulas and statistics to argue Harden's greatness, while using a somewhat vague term like generation to figure out which players to compare him to. And ftr, he's absolutely in the conversation.

I do think Durant is more un-guardable though. But Durant has more help so he doesn't have to do what Harden has been doing.

1/17/2019 10:18:14 PM

rwoody
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"such an objective Rockets fan"


Im not the one making the the argument? I'm only saying it's not ridiculous

1/17/2019 10:33:04 PM

justinh524
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No one has done what harden has been doing in like 40+ years.

People don't like him because they think iso ball isn't fun to watch or doesn't help teams win, but they're wrong because he's insanely efficient.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25714487/james-harden-dominance-unprecedented-undeniable

[Edited on January 17, 2019 at 10:36 PM. Reason : And I'm not a rockets fan, i just recognize greatness, even when it's not muh dubs]

1/17/2019 10:35:26 PM

shoot
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Harden was already the captain and top scorer of national team in FiBA World Cup in 2014, which has been 5 yrs. It's his time to shine.

1/18/2019 10:34:34 AM

UJustWait84
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^^

1. The regular season isn't anywhere close to being over, so let's see if he can continue playing the way he's been playing for the rest of it before we crown him the MVP (note: even if he comes back down to earth, he's still going to the frontrunner). It's insane to declare him "his generation's best overall offensive player" when he's still playing alongside people like Curry who's already accomplished so much.

2. You yourself said it was silly to compare him to Wilt or players from different eras, so why the sudden goal post movement?

3. Some people dislike watching Harden play because he flops and travels a lot. If you enjoy that style of basketball, that's fine. Some people dislike watching Curry play because he shoots tons of circus 3s and he shimmies all over the court. They are both top 3 PGs in the league and have the stats to back it up. And for the millionth time, they're better than Westbrook

4. Numbered lists are going to make a huge comeback in 2019.

[Edited on January 18, 2019 at 11:09 AM. Reason : .]

1/18/2019 11:06:46 AM

thegoodlife3
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Curry’s accomplishments mean absolutely nothing when it comes to discussing the offensive skill sets of other players

1/18/2019 11:28:32 AM

justinh524
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Quote :
" It's insane to declare him "his generation's best overall offensive player" when he's still playing alongside people like Curry who's already accomplished so much."


Harden has accomplished just as much individually as Curry. All while not playing with 18 other #1 offensive options.

Quote :
"You yourself said it was silly to compare him to Wilt or players from different eras, so why the sudden goal post movement?"


I didn't move the goal post. I never said he was better than wilt, I said there was an argument to be made for Harden being the best. That's different than saying he's definitively the best of all time. I definitely think he's better than Curry as a complete offensive player. But you will never agree because you are a giant warriors bandwagon fan.

Replace Harden with Curry on these Rockets and they'd be closer to a top 5 pick than the playoffs.

1/18/2019 1:02:27 PM

UJustWait84
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Bitch, plz

Curry won BOTH his MVPs without KD and those squads were pretty damn different than the ones that won the last two titles. It was Steph and Klay and to a lesser extent Iggy that ran up the score. Do you remember Harrison Barnes? David Lee? Bogut? Ian Clark? None of them were offensive juggernauts on a regular basis. It was those teams’ DEFENSE, combined with Curry going into God mode that made them title contenders in 15/16.

The Warriors were a damn good team before KD showed up because it was pretty much Steph’s team and they didn’t have much choice other than to play lockdown D in order to help them build up huge leads when he and Klay went on crazy scoring runs. Steph wasn’t 100% in the 16 Finals, and along with Bogut getting hurt, and the Draymond suspension, they blew that 3-1 lead. People tend to forget about Bogut, but he was critical in terms of defense and rim protection.

Once KD showed up, THEN shit got real in terms of offensive firepower. Steph’s flashy stats took a pretty big hit once KD was on the roster and it’s not difficult to figure out why. The past two seasons, the biggest problems the Ws have had have been sloppy turnovers and defensive lapses. When they correct those issues, they are extremely difficult to beat.

Tl;dr

Harden is having another incredible season so far, but we’re not even at the All Star break, so calm down.

1/18/2019 10:01:25 PM

TreeTwista10
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"Harden has accomplished just as much individually as Curry. All while not playing with 18 other #1 offensive options."


Isn't it much easier to get individual accomplishments when you don't have 18 other #1 offensive options?

1/19/2019 12:09:03 AM

UJustWait84
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It doesn’t matter anymore now that Boogie is back, but what a fun diversion this whole pissing contest was.

1/19/2019 12:52:16 PM

justinh524
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"Do you remember Harrison Barnes? David Lee? Bogut? Ian Clark? None of them were offensive juggernauts on a regular basis"


All of these people are better than the current Non-Harden starters for Houston.

[Edited on January 19, 2019 at 3:45 PM. Reason : Not to mention Green and Thompson and Igoudala.a]

1/19/2019 3:45:16 PM

rwoody
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Pretty good stuff here about Harden, even addressing the whining about free throws!
https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2019/1/23/18193249/james-harden-scoring-history-houston-rockets

1/23/2019 8:44:49 AM

UJustWait84
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^Stop trying to make Harden happen. It’s not going to happen.

1/23/2019 12:12:19 PM

Kickstand
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Klay Thompson hit 10 straight 3's in Monday's game. Harden could never do that.

Thompson > Harden

1/23/2019 12:28:11 PM

justinh524
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"It’s not going to happen."


LOL.

1/23/2019 12:35:04 PM

rwoody
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I don't even know what that means

1/23/2019 1:30:33 PM

thegoodlife3
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just a dude who doesn’t know shit about basketball trying to act like this is Linsanity 2.0

1/23/2019 1:35:12 PM

shoot
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This is beardsanity.

1/23/2019 2:26:27 PM

rwoody
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"Klay Thompson hit 10 straight 3's in Monday's game. Harden could never do that.

Thompson > Harden"


I think this is at least partially tongue in cheek but I'd like to point out that Klay has a game where he MADE 10 straight while Harden has a game where he MISSED 16 straight yet their 3 fg% this season is basically identical. Harden, of course, also shoots 5 more a game and has to create his own shot.

1/23/2019 4:31:03 PM

UJustWait84
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Klay is a better shooter and defender than Harden, but don’t you worry. Harden is the better player.

1/23/2019 5:33:44 PM

justinh524
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Wait, so now you're saying Klay Thompson is better than Harden? That's not golden kool-aid you're drinking, it's piss.

1/23/2019 5:57:29 PM

UJustWait84
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No, I’m saying what I literally wrote. If you disagree, that’s fine, but it’s not exactly an unpopular position to claim that Klay is a better shooter (he is) and he plays better defense than Harden (pretty much everyone does because Harden doesn’t even try).

Harden is a much better passer, dribbler, play maker, etc. It’s why he has better stats than Klay and is in the MVP conversation, while Klay isn’t.

The winky face was just to reassure rwoody that Harden is the better player, because he and you are so obviously sensitive about it.

1/23/2019 6:30:03 PM

rwoody
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WE'RE sensitive? Lol

But yea, the points you bring up are irrelevant to the conversation. However my post shows that even if Klay is the obviously better shooter (which, they mostly shoot in very different situations, but whatever) Harden has been better this season. As for defender the "Harden doesn't even try" is a little outdated. He still has lapses but he hasn't really been that player since 16/17. Dude is like 3rd in the league in steals which doesn't mean he is a superb defender but he must try at least occasionally?

[Edited on January 23, 2019 at 8:16 PM. Reason : Oops]

actually some advance stats i found show harden is WORSE on D this year so maybe i'm full of shit, but those stats also claim that Klay and Harden are at least equivalent so who knows

[Edited on January 23, 2019 at 8:23 PM. Reason : e]

1/23/2019 8:12:57 PM

UJustWait84
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He's a bad defender, period. It doesn't really matter, because he does so much on the offensive end, but Klay is a better two-way player (at least in the W's system), and one of the most dangerous players in the league when he gets hot. I wasn't the one who brought him up as a serious comparison, and the poster who did was joking/trolling.

For like the millionth time, I honestly don't have a huge problem with Harden, other than the annoying traveling/head jerking to get to the line stuff, and I recognize that there's pretty much nothing else to be talking about at this point in the season, but some of y'all really need to calm down a little and learn to take a joke (the Mean Girls reference is so played out that I'm surprised nobody got it). The dude's a total beast and if the Rockets weren't complete idiots when it comes to signing/retaining talent, the Ws would probably be a lot more afraid of them ruining their title chances this year. Yeah, they were nasty last year, but that was a completely different team and they fucking blew it in game 7.

But man, Boogie is going to fuck shit up and make the Ws pretty tough to beat in the West. Guess nobody wants to talk about that tho

[Edited on January 23, 2019 at 8:53 PM. Reason : .]

1/23/2019 8:52:38 PM

rwoody
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Yea people have to recognize a joke to take a joke. Maybe be funnier?

And yea would have been nice to have ariza but had to pay Capela and Paul, can't really justify taking ariza over either of them. Wish the Rockets owner was more willing to pay the tax, but can't fault the rest of the organization for that. As for mbah a moute, his shoulder injury may have just about ended his career. Ryan Anderson was unplayable against the warriors anyway. Rockets prob wanted to hunt a 3andD guy now but Capelas injury fucked them.

And yea they choke in game 7 last year, but without that CP3 injury it's a completely different story. Oh well.

[Edited on January 23, 2019 at 9:06 PM. Reason : And Harden/capela beat the warriors like 3 weeks ago]

1/23/2019 9:04:46 PM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"Boogie is going to fuck shit up"


fuck up the Dubs' chemistry

1/23/2019 9:43:30 PM

rwoody
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Harden had 61, 15 rebounds and 6 steals plus the go ahead assist and game sealing (half) steal

However it was vs the Knicks

61 is most in a game this year. 50 in 3 of last 5 (since capela got hurt) and AVERAGING 52 over those 5

Granted they only went 3-2 over those BUT STILL

1/23/2019 10:18:38 PM

justinh524
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Quote :
"other than the annoying traveling/head jerking to get to the line stuff"


he gets to the line because he makes people foul him, not because he travels or jerks his head.

And this bullshit over him being a terrible defender needs to end. This is from last year, but it's still relevant: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22669488/attacks-james-harden-defense-mostly-unfair He's not terrible at defense, and in fact he's become one of the best post defenders in the league. But let's keep taking like this is 2015.

1/23/2019 11:06:37 PM

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