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A Tanzarian
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This is a defining moment in US history and deserves its own thread. The day's events and repercussions will be an ongoing story for years.

Current explanations range from "Things got out of hand" to "A planned coup involving top Trump administration officials and allies" with a healthy side of conspiracy mongering (antifa!). There were clearly individuals anticipating chaos who showed up prepared to exploit it. It will be interesting to find out how well coordinated they were and who knew what, when.

1/8/2021 5:12:01 PM

qntmfred
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January 6, 2021

Never Forget





[Edited on January 8, 2021 at 5:39 PM. Reason : .]

1/8/2021 5:34:27 PM

The Coz
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RIP USA



GNSP

1/8/2021 8:41:41 PM

0EPII1
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Disgusting pieces of shit

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/ny-trump-capitol-riot-poopers-20210108-prlsqytyabgdhnexushotl4nam-story.html

Who knew people who are family men/women, love God, and have high moral standards would smear shit all over the place on purpose

1/9/2021 9:44:27 AM

The Coz
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As an aside, I never knew there was a UAE enclave inside an Omani exclave. I knew about the Omani exclave at the Strait of Hormuz.

1/9/2021 10:25:12 AM

dmspack
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Remember. Kneeling for the national anthem is too extreme of a form of protest

1/9/2021 10:37:09 AM

rwoody
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Is it still funny to make jokes about oeps post like "youre just mad bc you couldn't sniff it"

1/9/2021 11:18:06 AM

The Coz
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I don't think so.

1/9/2021 12:31:42 PM

A Tanzarian
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Lots of arrests, but all low hanging fruit so far.

"The crowd made me do it" seems to be a common defense.

1/9/2021 2:26:13 PM

TreeTwista10
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https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1347896132798533632?s=21&fbclid=IwAR2zFPwBEZUiL3iY4tgFNE-r54bcDbsPHCoFRQ2VGUcjay9ZMno0Wu3CuwE

1/11/2021 9:44:11 PM

JesusHChrist
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The most insulting (and also predictable) part of this insurrection and attempted self-coup was the brazen openness of the belligerents. MANY of these guys were petit bourgeois small business owners, and the rest were lazy militia fanatics, off duty law enforcement, and would-be school shooters. It highlighted the relationship between counter-revolutionary 2nd amendment gun fanaticism and neo-confederate white supremacy (something I've argued in the gun-control thread a thousand times) better than I could ever articulate.

But more to my first point about the upper middle class small business owning participants. An astounding number of the insurgents are well enough off. They are professional middle class people. They own small roofing companies and landscape businesses. They live on your cul-de-sac. They fucking FLEW to DC on commercial airlines. Can you imagine any other insurrectionist group being able to avoid detection from our hyper-active surveillance state apparatus? I mean....did they camp out in the Potomac for months and undergo rigorous training before waging a guerilla insurgency? NO! THEY FLEW! They stayed in bougie-ass hotels and air-bnb's and had room service! Some of them are STILL there! Probably seeing all the sites before complaining that the local Ruth's Chris is take-out only. They collected airline miles and credit card cash back bonus points as they carried out their criminal conspiracy to overthrow the fucking government. I've talked before about how fascist movements often find the most fertile ground in the petit bourgeois sections of society, but fuck me, seeing this really put a fine point on it. It's astounding.

And just...The ease of it all. They didn't even bother to conceal their identities, or conceal their spending footprints. They just....documented the whole thing. And they were met with a complete lack of resistance from the very state they were trying to sack. Unbelievable. I'll tell you right now, if you were a foreign agent and you weren't in that crowd nabbing as many state-secrets as you could get your grubby little hands on, you should not be allowed to be a spy anymore.

And it all just perfectly encapsulates the racist deployment of the security and surveillance state that exploded after 9/11. You and I cannot get on an airplane with a bottle of water, but because none of these guys are named Mohammad, TSA just let them fly coach while wearing their red-hats and with enough weaponry to seize the center of our democracy. The guy on the very first picture on this page is wanted by the FBI, and they are offering a HUGE reward. Do you know what that means? It means they have no fucking clue who he is. All this surveillance, all this security theater that was deployed in the name of NatIOnAL SeCUritY couldn't even bother to read all of the planning that occurred in broad fucking daylight on Parler, Facebook, Reddit, the Chans, and whatever else these bozos use. It was just, soo....sooo...sooooo very easy for this to happen. A luxury that no other group in society with legitimate grievances against the government would ever be able to afford. If any other group even attempted to be this out in the open, they would be met with a knock on the door by the FBI 5 minutes after pressing 'Send' on their keyboard. I've always known this, but just seeing it play-out is so goddamn demoralizing.

But these guys?

Walk right in. Make yourself comfortable. What's that, you want the Speaker's lecturn? Sure, right around the corner. Help yourself. Enjoy your stay.

1/11/2021 10:45:27 PM

Nighthawk
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Quote :
"They fucking FLEW to DC on commercial airlines."


Don't forget some of them even chartered private jets to take them to DC! These are definitely not the poor and downtrodden, yearning to breathe free.

https://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/texas-woman-private-jet-capitol-attack-15855750.php

[Edited on January 12, 2021 at 9:06 AM. Reason : Actually a P.180, so very fancy turboprop bizplane, but damn near as fast as a jet.]

1/12/2021 9:03:50 AM

UJustWait84
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When I was witnessing it all unfold live, I kept thinking to myself "why the FUCK is nobody doing anything to deescalate this ?!!?""

It went from being a very dark/ominous march towards the Capitol with those dumb Trump flags, to a buzzing/agitated hive yelling at the the steps, to people literally hopping over the barricades with zero resistance--just like you see when people sneak into a music festival/concert-- to full on hordes of complete idiots live-streaming themselves in the halls of Congress desecrating the ever living fuck out of it. 0-100 in maybe the span of 10-15 minutes? I could not believe what I was watching.

Clearly, at least some Capitol PD knew and sided with the insurrectionists (really bright to allow yourself to be photographed/videoed with the selfie takers!), and the Pentagon/DC Police/NG took their sweet ass time arriving for backup, but what a colossal fuck up in terms of national security. It's an absolute miracle so few people died.

[Edited on January 12, 2021 at 12:55 PM. Reason : .]

1/12/2021 12:54:42 PM

HaLo
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Long but fantastic essay

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/magazine/trump-coup.html

I listened to the audio version on the way home from work.

1/12/2021 9:30:57 PM

daaave
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There are apparently enough seditionists within the military that leadership had to release a statement condemning it. That's my read on this at least.

https://news.usni.org/2021/01/12/message-from-joint-chiefs-on-u-s-capitol-riot

1/13/2021 12:27:31 PM

rwoody
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I kinda took it as "don't follow Trump unconstitutional orders" but I could see either view

1/13/2021 1:01:42 PM

The Coz
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"RICHMOND OUT!"

1/13/2021 1:04:08 PM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"There are apparently enough seditionists within the military that leadership had to release a statement condemning it. That's my read on this at least."


Always a good sign when the military feels the need to publicly state their commitment to preserve order and democracy domestically.

1/13/2021 2:00:01 PM

Bullet
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https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/13/956426253/rep-tim-ryan-probe-under-way-on-whether-members-gave-capitol-tours-to-rioters

1/13/2021 2:20:48 PM

GrumpyGOP
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^^, ^^^^^

https://www.theonion.com/eerily-silent-charmin-twitter-account-apparently-condon-1846013997

Everybody is putting out statements condemning the insurrection and expressing support for rule of law. Everybody.

"We'd rather be lonely than with that mob. [Group] condemns yesterday's acts of violence and hate at the Capitol. We believe in the democratic process and the peaceful transition of power."

You know who put that out? AXE fucking body spray.

Given how ubiquitous these messages are (at least, outside of the White House), don't you think it'd be weirder if the military didn't say the same thing?

Don't get me wrong, far-right fringe elements in the military is a problem, if only because any nonzero number of far-right fringe elements trained and armed with our tax dollars is a problem. But some of y'all are reading a lot into that statement.

[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ^]

1/13/2021 2:25:03 PM

daaave
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This was a message sent to US troops specifically, not a press release or public condemnation. From that standpoint it is pretty unheard of. And it definitely reads like a directive for service-members to not disrupt the constitutional process.

Quote :
"As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law.

On January 20, 2021, in accordance with the Constitution, confirmed by the states and the courts, and certified by Congress, President-elect Biden will be inaugurated and will become our 46th Commander in Chief.

To our men and women deployed and at home, safeguarding our country-stay ready, keep your eyes on the horizon, and remain focused on the mission. We honor your continued service in defense of every American."


[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 2:31 PM. Reason : .]

1/13/2021 2:31:03 PM

JesusHChrist
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No idea what you're rolling your eyes about.

Quote :
"Given how ubiquitous these messages are (at least, outside of the White House), don't you think it'd be weirder if the military didn't say the same thing?"


This is a mis-read. I understand that the military had to say something. That's actually the point. We have reached a point where the military is forced to state their allegiance to preserving American democracy. That's alarming in and of itself.

Can you think of any other time where that would even be necessary? The fact that there are open divisions within branches of government is an issue, because it forces institutions like the military to state which side they are on. That's a problem for obvious reasons. No idea why you would just file that in the "nothingburger" category.



[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 2:35 PM. Reason : ]

1/13/2021 2:33:08 PM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"You know who put that out? AXE fucking body spray."


I mean, if I told you 8 years ago that your favorite deodorant companies would feel compelled to re-affirm their commitment to American democracy, that uh.....that would also be weird.

1/13/2021 2:42:33 PM

HaLo
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Quote :
" Always a good sign when the military feels the need to publicly state their commitment to preserve order and democracy domestically.
"

Note that the military does not have a commitment to domestic affairs. See Posse Comitatus Act

1/13/2021 3:58:55 PM

GrumpyGOP
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I'm an Old Spice man, personally.

But to this:

Quote :
"I understand that the military had to say something. That's actually the point. We have reached a point where the military is forced to state their allegiance to preserving American democracy. That's alarming in and of itself."


I mean, fair enough. But this says something about the larger problem with the entire country rather than any going on with the military in particular. As long as we're viewing it through that lens, sure, we're on the same page.

Quote :
"This was a message sent to US troops specifically, not a press release or public condemnation. From that standpoint it is pretty unheard of."


Uh...is it? I expect there's e-mails like this being sent to members of countless organizations by their respective leaderships. Again, it's obviously a bad thing for the country as a whole that everybody feels they have to make these statements, but you could just as easily use a similar e-mail from the Pigknuckle County Sheriff's Department, American Airlines, or the Quaker Oats guy.

I'm just trying to push back against the kneejerk assumption that a lot of people make that the military is in Trump's pocket and ready to back any play he chooses to make. It's just not true. Polling before the election was limited, but suggested that support for POTUS among the rank and file was somewhere in the 50% range. Support among the officers is considerably lower. I'm worried about a lot of things, but on balance I consider the military to be a counterweight to Trump's more extreme fantasies rather than an enabler.

[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 4:01 PM. Reason : DORD]

1/13/2021 4:00:23 PM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"I'm just trying to push back against the kneejerk assumption that a lot of people make that the military is in Trump's pocket and ready to back any play he chooses to make"


Who is saying this? Trump's appeal has been to militia members, law enforcement, and cosplay warriors who own $30,000 pickup trucks. Trump has insulted "his generals" and called them losers for dying in World War I. I'd even argue that his inability to forge alliances with the military is part of the reason why he went in so hard with Blue Lives Matter types.

Quote :
"but you could just as easily use a similar e-mail from the Pigknuckle County Sheriff's Department, American Airlines, or the Quaker Oats guy."


I don't know why you keep making these comparisons as if they should somehow be treated with the same degree of seriousness. The Nabisco corporation telling the Keebler Elve's not to participate in an armed insurgancy against the government is not the same as the US military doing the same.

Quote :
"Note that the military does not have a commitment to domestic affairs. See Posse Comitatus Act"


Certain protections afforded in posse comitatus have been undermined and put in legal grey zones during the Obama administration during certain portions of the NDAA (which, if I remember correctly, allows for extraordinary rendition of US citizens on US soil without trial, and it is widely believed that this has been used on suspected "terrorists" who are Muslim).

Now, with that being said, I personally don't think Trump has forged the alliances necessary to test this legal grey area, which is why he is leaning so hard on enraging heavily armed insurrectionists to do his bidding. The fact that the military feels the need to assert that they are committed to the orderly transition of power to the Biden administration is unsettling (and also leads me to believe that the Biden administration has fostered those relationships with military brass as VP and secured these assurances, but that's just me speculating).




[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 4:24 PM. Reason : ]

1/13/2021 4:18:07 PM

daaave
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Quote :
"Uh...is it? I expect there's e-mails like this being sent to members of countless organizations by their respective leaderships. Again, it's obviously a bad thing for the country as a whole that everybody feels they have to make these statements, but you could just as easily use a similar e-mail from the Pigknuckle County Sheriff's Department, American Airlines, or the Quaker Oats guy."


I think I'm just reading it differently. As much as it is a condemnation, it also reads as them saying "don't participate in the violent insurrection". This paragraph in particular stands out to me:

Quote :
"As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law."


One other thing to note is that the latest YouGov poll puts approval for the insurrection at 12-15% for people aged 18-44. Apply this number to the military (which might not be totally accurate, I know), and you get nearly 200,000 battle-trained people who support violently storming the Capitol. Include veterans and that number grows....a lot. Is that enough to overthrow the government? No, and I don't believe at all that Trump has the support of the military. But this is absolutely enough people to cause serious damage.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/4yijjbkc2z/econTabReport.pdf

1/13/2021 4:25:30 PM

JesusHChrist
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55654102

1/13/2021 4:49:00 PM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"The fact that the military feels the need to assert that they are committed to the orderly transition of power to the Biden administration is unsettling"


See, now, I'm with you up to this point, because of course it's unsettling that we've reached a point in our national discourse where this is necessary. What I don't understand is your jump to "That's probably because Biden did a better job of co-opting the military while he was VP," or whatever milder version of that basic idea you'd prefer. The military (and everybody else) would be putting out the same messages if Bernie were the President-Elect, or Warren, or John Kasich, or a ham sandwich.

I think we're talking past each other just a little bit. If the military were the only organization sending out this kind of statement, that would make me much more alarmed about the military than does the current state of affairs, where everybody is doing it. Because if it's just the military, you've got to think, "Jesus, what is going on in the Army that they feel like they have to remind everybody not to overthrow the government?" Whereas if Nabisco and all the others are doing it, the military is just one more example, and instead I think, "Well, we're fucked as a country," but I'm not especially concerned about the armed forces. Which is why I think singling them out is misguided, alarmist, or just unfair to an institution that shows every indication of playing fair.

All that said, as someone who lives in the DC suburbs and works in the city, 20,000 guardsmen hanging out in town is inevitably a little off-putting.

1/13/2021 5:26:22 PM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"What I don't understand is your jump to "That's probably because Biden did a better job of co-opting the military while he was VP," or whatever milder version of that basic idea you'd prefer. The military (and everybody else) would be putting out the same messages if Bernie were the President-Elect, or Warren, or John Kasich, or a ham sandwich. "


I'm saying Trump is uniquely BAD at forging alliances with those institutions who he would need to forcefully suspend democracy. He's brilliant at rousing the emotions of his radicalized base, but he sucks at statecraft. I'm not saying Biden is a genius playing chess in the background, but that our only saving grace has been Trump's laziness and ideological incoherence.

The conditions are there for a more skilled tactician in the future to learn from the errors of this lazy fascist self-coup (assuming this one fails). If Democrats fail to prosecute and remove the belligerent actors from the Republican Party who aided and abetted this insurrection, then a more ideologically committed and singularly focused monster will rise up within their ranks and repeat this moment in history without making the same blunders, especially if sustained acts of domestic political violence goes unchecked (AND) successfully blamed on the left (just listen to Maett Gaetz speech made where he blamed BLM and antifa for being the real baddies).



[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 5:47 PM. Reason : ]

1/13/2021 5:32:38 PM

BanjoMan
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Trump doesn't win people over with policy, or convincing logic, but he comes at them with propaganda that would make the Gestapo proud. That get's him a massive amount of very passionate people that treat him like a cult leader of some sort. They even believe him when he says "look no true supporter of mine would disgrace the capital, so those aren't my people."

The difference is that the military can not be threatened by his base, since they are not elected officials. So, they have become the only branch in the government really (aside from his political opponents), that doesn't just bow down to him.

[Edited on January 13, 2021 at 9:35 PM. Reason : a]

1/13/2021 9:06:15 PM

The Coz
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Quote :
"The conditions are there for a more skilled tactician in the future to learn from the errors of this lazy fascist self-coup (assuming this one fails). If Democrats fail to prosecute and remove the belligerent actors from the Republican Party who aided and abetted this insurrection, then a more ideologically committed and singularly focused monster will rise up within their ranks and repeat this moment in history without making the same blunders, especially if sustained acts of domestic political violence goes unchecked (AND) successfully blamed on the left (just listen to Matt Gaetz speech made where he blamed BLM and antifa for being the real baddies)."


QFT

1/14/2021 12:20:59 AM

0EPII1
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https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/posts/3851581634880726

Quote :
"Larry Brock, who appeared on the Senate floor with handcuffs and zip-ties has been arrested. He is an Air Force combat veteran and it is believed he was fully prepared and able to take hostages."

1/14/2021 7:27:42 AM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"The conditions are there for a more skilled tactician in the future to learn from the errors of this lazy fascist self-coup (assuming this one fails). If Democrats fail to prosecute and remove the belligerent actors from the Republican Party who aided and abetted this insurrection, then a more ideologically committed and singularly focused monster will rise up within their ranks and repeat this moment in history without making the same blunders, especially if sustained acts of domestic political violence goes unchecked (AND) successfully blamed on the left (just listen to Maett Gaetz speech made where he blamed BLM and antifa for being the real baddies)"


There's a lot of truth here. If the ability to mobilize a base ever gets wedded to a better tactical mind in one person, we're in trouble. It's just a matter of time.

I'm very much in favor of prosecuting, removing, and otherwise punishing the key players in the Republican Party, but it's not enough. If we stop there, the next demagogue will be even more convinced that victory is the only path to survival. One of the things that probably served to moderate Trump's behavior - insofar as it can said to have been moderated - is the prospect of life after this term. It is essential to have the punishment in parallel with institutional reforms to enforce some degree of weakness and/or moderation on the GOP. I think there's a host of options there, though I'm not optimistic that any of them will be pursued with enough vigor.

And let's not kid ourselves: Republicans are top of their class in populism and autocracy right now, but they don't have a monopoly on it. The same tactics with a slightly different message could prompt a similar movement on the left. I'd still blame the Republicans - they're the ones that opened the door and spent the last half-century working to ramp up partisanship and division - but a Democratic Trump figure is not impossible to imagine.

The good(ish) news is that there are still some institutions that I still think could put the brakes on a smarter demagogue, including the military and the courts. Yes, the courts are packed with Trump appointees. It hasn't done him that much good. It's not the preferred way to stop dictatorship, and the military definitely isn't. Plenty of countries have fallen into the "Army as defender of our democracy" trap and it's not pretty. But unless we can get some major institutional reforms through, I'll clutch at what straws I have.

1/14/2021 9:36:40 AM

0EPII1
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^ Awesome!

The US should move to South America to fit in better!

1/14/2021 10:20:22 AM

The Coz
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Welcome to shithole country status.

1/14/2021 11:01:39 AM

JesusHChrist
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^^^ I agree with most of what you said, but take issue with this:

Quote :
" The same tactics with a slightly different message could prompt a similar movement on the left. I'd still blame the Republicans - they're the ones that opened the door and spent the last half-century working to ramp up partisanship and division - but a Democratic Trump figure is not impossible to imagine."


The biggest institutional roadblock to a left populist taking over the democratic party IS the democratic party. They've proven to be quite effective at crushing any populist insurgency from their base. I don't think this fear of a Democratic populist hellbent on inciting his base to acts of stochastic terrorism is particularly warranted. If the left were ever to take power to the extent you described, it would have to be a movement aimed at seizing power from the outside of the political arena, not from within the democratic party. Your typical American radical socialist doesn't have the stomach for a guerrilla style call to armed struggle, so it's a moot point.

So while you correctly blame Republicans for the rise of Trump, I actually see the failure (or success, depending on your perspective) of Democrats to appeal to their base as a major problem. Their failure to protect institutions and social safety nets (like the new deal and the erosion of the welfare state) in favor of corporate interests (like NAFTA) has allowed a citizenry to become illiterate to class analysis of politics and yearn for a dangerous demagogue for answers.


[Edited on January 14, 2021 at 11:26 AM. Reason : ]

1/14/2021 11:01:44 AM

GrumpyGOP
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The Republican Party tried to be an obstacle to Donald Trump and ended up beholden to him. I don't have a "fear of a Democratic populist," but I'm not so naive as to think that past success is guarantee of future performance. And honestly, I think it's less about party leadership masterminding suppression of radicals, and more about the radical left's tendency to splinter (as opposed to the radical right's seeming urge to coalesce around any figure or issue they can).

I agree with enough of your second paragraph that I'll refrain from rolling my eyes at the parts I disagree with.

1/14/2021 1:44:43 PM

JesusHChrist
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How many times have leftist revolutions taken power through electoral means? I'm not advocating for it, I'm just acknowledging that a left populist movement (one that would mirror the far right militia movement we are currently witnessing) that is hostile to the excesses of capitalism have a very poor success rate within the confines of capitalist democracies. Your concern is completely unfounded and is rooted in the misguided assumption that white nationalist movements are a mirror of progressive movements like Medicare 4 All.

Quote :
"and more about the radical left's tendency to splinter (as opposed to the radical right's seeming urge to coalesce around any figure or issue they can). "


This is a fair point. The left couldn't even organize a picnic right now (Peaky Blinder's reference)

[Edited on January 14, 2021 at 3:28 PM. Reason : ]

1/14/2021 3:26:18 PM

theDuke866
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Quote :
"
I'm just trying to push back against the kneejerk assumption that a lot of people make that the military is in Trump's pocket and ready to back any play he chooses to make. It's just not true. Polling before the election was limited, but suggested that support for POTUS among the rank and file was somewhere in the 50% range. Support among the officers is considerably lower. I'm worried about a lot of things, but on balance I consider the military to be a counterweight to Trump's more extreme fantasies rather than an enabler."


Concur.

——————

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/01/14/house-democrat-says-fbi-looking-into-inside-assistance-to-capitol-mob/?sh=60d26b2ca55b

Man...holy shit, what if it turns out that several congressmen was inside agents for this?

1/15/2021 2:33:14 AM

0EPII1
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^

Quote :
"Alexander announced in several livestreams in December 2020 that he had organized his rally with Representative Andy Biggs, as well as Representatives Paul Gosar and Mo Brooks.[33] In one livestream on Periscope, Alexander stated, "We four schemed up of putting maximum pressure on Congress while they were voting."[34]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Alexander#2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol

I hope the FBI is looking into this.

1/15/2021 3:57:06 AM

JesusHChrist
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The fact that those guys got rolled by dollar store Sammy Davis Jr. is hilarious to me. That guy has been openly bragging about his role in the act and even tweeted that he was "ready to die for the cause". The official Arizona GOP twitter account thought it was wise to retweet him. Everything about him is suspicious as hell and the more I learn about him the more sparks start flying out of my ears.

1/15/2021 4:13:54 AM

Cherokee
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https://www.vice.com/en/article/epdmqj/qanon-is-so-desperate-it-thinks-trump-spoke-to-them-in-morse-code

1/15/2021 8:05:00 AM

A Tanzarian
drip drip boom
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Compilation of charging documents:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/compiling-criminal-charges-following-capitol-riot

1/15/2021 10:46:21 AM

Bullet
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^One of the terrorist's name is actually William PEPE!

1/15/2021 10:58:26 AM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"Man...holy shit, what if it turns out that several congressmen was inside agents for this?"


I mean......I'd be surprised if they weren't? Also hearing that panic buttons were removed from key congress members like Ayanna Presley's office. You obviously have to wonder about how complicit some of the capitol police were as well. I'd really like to know more about the cop who committed suicide after the fact. That's usually some irreparably traumatized behavior or I seriously fucked up behavior. Who knows right now. The details we're going to hear will be nuts.

In addition to the members from Arizona mentioned above (Paul Gosar's entire family thinks he's lost his mind), I'm putting money on all the Q-Anon freaks who have been recently elected like Boebert (Colorado) who had some pretty choice tweets the day of and during the event, Marjorie Taylor Greene (Georgia), and ADA Hitler (North Carolina) of being key suspects.

Absolutely insane to think we almost witnessed a mass-casualty event on TV of 1/3 of our government at the behest of the executive branch.



[Edited on January 17, 2021 at 4:07 AM. Reason : ]

1/17/2021 3:45:07 AM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
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^^
https://lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-siege/trump-supporter-called-out-sick-from-work-to-go-to-the-nations-capital-now-hes-facing-a-federal-charge/



1/17/2021 8:52:24 AM

Cherokee
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1/17/2021 11:42:00 AM

moron
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So are these nuts going to squirrel away underground? Are they emboldened? Seems like most people arrested so far have tried to apologize and seem to realize what fools they were.

But I just watched the video today from the New Yorker, showing these people up close while they were in the Capitol, and they are deeply unhinged and were prepared for violence, and some of them did have a semblance of a plan and seemed more organized.

My feeling now is that if the 20th goes off without a hitch, we've "won" and as long as the intel agencies keep weeding out the ring leaders we'd have dodged a major bullet. But if they manage to create any major disruption on the 20th, even after all the vigilance, I think that will be an omen that we have far more work to do than we realize to undo the Trump era.

1/18/2021 1:05:27 AM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"So are these nuts going to squirrel away underground?"


They'll have to if there is a crackdown on social media. The fact that they were openly planning and nothing was done to stop them is a massive, massive exposure of the racist deployment of the post 9/11 security and surveillance state. Any crackdown will also be applied eventually to the left, so we'll see how that shakes out. Unevenly applied, is my guess, and the liberal application of the term "terrorist" is concerning because it will inevitably be applied to people who are seeking legitimate redress from their government (BLM, etc). Be wary of those who value a return to order more than a push for justice.

Quote :
"Are they emboldened?"


Absolutely. The imagery and symbolism of overpowering the capitol is a major propaganda victory for the right. Think of famous images you can think of in history where a regimes flag is usurped and replaced with the preferred flag of insurgents. Those are lasting images and Jan 6 will be a day that is celebrated and probably repeated at varying scales throughout the country for years to come. This doesn't blow over, this was the opening shot across the bows of a burgeoning fascistic movement in the US. Trump's Red Hats have successfully taken over the capitol. Someone far more ideologically driven and competent than Trump will try to harness that energy for their gain.

Quote :
"Seems like most people arrested so far have tried to apologize and seem to realize what fools they were."


Nahh. They all want pardons. They're not sorry for shit. They tried to assassinate an entire branch of government. Let's not infantilize them. They knew what the fuck they were doing was wrong and they tried to do it anyway. Just because they're white doesn't mean they should be treated like babies. They literally committed the highest crime you can commit against the state. It's not a jaywalking offense. If you attempt to overthrow the government and fail, you should be prepared to face stiff consequences. You don't get to quiver your lips like a big fat fucking baby and say, "Sorry officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that."


Don't try to reduce the impact of this. This is a major deal and its growing in size, scope, and sophistication. Dozens of Timothy McVeigh's/Cliven Bundy's/Dylan Roof's/MAGA Bomber's just got inspired by this catastrophic security failure. I don't think we can overstate what era we just walked into.




[Edited on January 18, 2021 at 2:03 PM. Reason : ]

1/18/2021 1:40:54 PM

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