it’s really not that difficult to treat people how they would like to be treated

2/23/2023 4:04:54 PM

Except when they expect or demand what many rationally-minded (and I want to say not inherently hateful) people would consider unreasonable levels of accommodation for often confusing reasons. I get it that in our culture these people have pretty shitty lives and a lot of problems. I'm truly not for perpetuating that, but I also haven't seen you ever espouse ANY limits in accommodation, which I honestly have some trouble rationalizing. Biological truths don't change simply because someone decides (or even if you want to say it's not a "decision") they want to identify some other kind of way. I think choices in life come with consequences, and maybe a fair consequence of a biological male choosing to identify as female is that they give up the "right" to participate in certain physically competitive sports against comparatively biologically disadvantaged females? That was really the subject of the discussion as suggested by the OP before it went on to become a catch-all for trans issues. Nothing stops them from going on Jeopardy and wailing on all comers. The fact that you apparently don't see a middle-of-the pack ex-male winning a national championship in a physically demanding female collegiate sport as a valid counterpoint to your stance on the issue is what I mean about being an outlier. We should just be all good with that outcome and celebrate it as progress because trans people have shitty lives and high suicide rates? Sorry, but no. Lots of non-trans people have shitty lives too.

Man, that was some tasty bait!

The Coz is a hateful bigot, EXPOSED?!

2/23/2023 6:55:34 PM

^^

yeah I'm all for calling people by their correct pronouns and respecting that, but the sports thing is where you begin to treat other people unfairly. I honestly don't see how that can be argued

I agree with The Coz

2/23/2023 7:10:44 PM

Quote :

" Nothing stops them from going on Jeopardy and wailing on all comers."

why in the world would you bring up Jeopardy and the time you mis-gendered a champion? and wailing? fuck off.

Quote :

"The fact that you apparently don't see a middle-of-the pack ex-male winning a national championship in a physically demanding female collegiate sport as a valid counterpoint to your stance on the issue is what I mean about being an outlier."

she abided by every NCAA rule/guideline that exists

Quote :

"We should just be all good with that outcome and celebrate it as progress because trans people have shitty lives and high suicide rates? Sorry, but no. Lots of non-trans people have shitty lives too."

fuck you for this. seriously.

I know that you know better than this and are aware of what per capita means, but you had to go out of your way to troll.

2/23/2023 7:27:09 PM

at the time, they required athletes to have one year of HRT

now they've updated the rules to three years for coming seasons

so now would you say that she had an unfair advantage during her swims considering the new guidelines by the NCAA would be said to be the more correct ones?

[Edited on February 23, 2023 at 7:53 PM. Reason : and even the HRT doesn't negate the male development of the frame of the body]

2/23/2023 7:50:45 PM

Let's not pretend that the NCAA always has the best policies and guidelines

[Edited on February 23, 2023 at 8:02 PM. Reason : it only took them 100+ years to allow "student athletes" to be able to make money]

2/23/2023 8:00:27 PM

Quote :

"Except when they expect or demand what many rationally-minded (and I want to say not inherently hateful) people would consider unreasonable levels of accommodation for often confusing reasons. I get it that in our culture these people have pretty shitty lives and a lot of problems. I'm truly not for perpetuating that, but I also haven't seen you ever espouse ANY limits in accommodation, which I honestly have some trouble rationalizing. Biological truths don't change simply because someone decides (or even if you want to say it's not a "decision") they want to identify some other kind of way. I think choices in life come with consequences, and maybe a fair consequence of a biological male choosing to identify as female is that they give up the "right" to participate in certain physically competitive sports against comparatively biologically disadvantaged females? That was really the subject of the discussion as suggested by the OP before it went on to become a catch-all for trans issues. Nothing stops them from going on Jeopardy and wailing on all comers. The fact that you apparently don't see a middle-of-the pack ex-male winning a national championship in a physically demanding female collegiate sport as a valid counterpoint to your stance on the issue is what I mean about being an outlier. We should just be all good with that outcome and celebrate it as progress because trans people have shitty lives and high suicide rates? Sorry, but no. Lots of non-trans people have shitty lives too. "

People like tgl will not be happy until they’ve achieved complete capitulation from everyone. I’m a bigot because I don’t believe publicly sexualized nudity should be a thing at drag shows. You know, I don’t believe straight people should act like that in public either. And sure, the people trying to ban these shows are picking out a few events that are few and far between, but then tgl takes those people and their actions and applies them to everyone who might disagree with a few points.

It’s always either all or none. There is no middle ground.

2/23/2023 8:07:52 PM

Quote :

"why in the world would you bring up Jeopardy and the time you mis-gendered a champion? and wailing? fuck off."

I brought it up because I knew you'd remember and do exactly that, but also because it is a perfect example of where all genders are on a completely level playing field. Except for biological women who are not good at math and science. As for "wailing on", are you unfamiliar with this usage in the common vernacular?

http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/wail-on

It was an admission and agreement that SHE destroyed everyone fair and square. I don't understand your reaction.

Quote :

"she abided by every NCAA rule/guideline that exists"

I don't hold that against the athlete. I hold that against the rule makers. These athletes (along with intersex athletes) will never be beyond skepticism any time they are successful at a high level. You don't have to participate in competition to enjoy athletic pursuits. I honestly don't understand the desire to be some kind of false champion. Does Lia Thomas in her heart of hearts believe she would have been a national champion if she was female from birth? Who knows what she believes, but I don't believe it. Her winning doesn't affect me directly, so why should I care? Well, generally I don't care, but again, this is the topic of discussion. Women's sports are boring. They bleed blood every month. Don't they deserve something to themselves?

Quote :

"fuck you for this. seriously. I know that you know better than this and are aware of what per capita means, but you had to go out of your way to troll."

Yes, I know what per capita means. Do you know what wailing on means?

I'm sorry, my guy. I can agree with you on almost everything else on these boards, but you haven't convinced me to adopt your extreme progressive stance on this specific issue.

I have a serious question for you if you are willing to answer. Why do you care so much about this issue (exhibited by the fact that you cannot avoid viscerally attacking obvious throwaway shitpost comments)? Do you have a personal connection to someone trans who has really struggled, or are you just naturally this much of a champion to the underrepresented? Maybe you can guilt me into adopting your position if I am made to feel like my crude comments on an anonymous message board have had a tangible hurtful effect on a real person that cares about another real person. I assure you I don't want trans people to kill themselves.

I am comfortable that my stance on this hyper-specific issue does not actually make me a bigot. I also believe that you believe you are 100% in the right, but you sure don't seem willing to compromise at all. Nothing less than complete societal adaptation to the most far-fetched accommodations is going to satisfy you. But you also seem to have the emotional energy for a lifelong battle on the topic, so kudos for that, I guess. Try me on some others issues. I'm sure we have lots of common ground.

2/23/2023 8:15:40 PM

Quote :

" People like tgl will not be happy until they’ve achieved complete capitulation from everyone."

“complete capitulation” is legitimately the Golden Rule

Quote :

" I’m a bigot because I don’t believe publicly sexualized nudity should be a thing at drag shows."

care to provide your evidence?

Quote :

" You know, I don’t believe straight people should act like that in public either."

so should whatever “that” is be outlawed?

2/23/2023 8:17:51 PM

Quote :

"I have a serious question for you if you are willing to share. Why do you care so much about this issue (exhibited by the fact that you cannot avoid viscerally attacking obvious throwaway shitpost comments? Do you have a personal connection to someone trans who has really struggled, or are you just naturally this much of a champion to the underrepresented? Maybe you can guilt me into adopting your position."

people are dying and you’re shitposting over a very serious issue. you’re an adult and you’re still shitposting. c’mon.

and yes, I am friends with trans people, and it’s not a fucking game to them.

I’ll forever be a champion to the underrepresented. Im a straight white male. it’s seriously the least I could do.

2/23/2023 8:22:16 PM

And being able to beat biological women at physically competitive sports makes their lives better?

I assume there are a lot more biological women than trans women, so I guess they (biological women) can take one for the team (humanity) on this. It's not like they are ever going to make a fair living with self-supporting non-subsidized competitive sports in America anyway, so I think they should just give up.

2/23/2023 8:24:33 PM

she also lost to biological women

2/23/2023 8:25:15 PM

Yeah, occasionally to a few of the best of the best in that segment.

I can't really warp my brain to adopt your position on this.

2/23/2023 8:29:49 PM

my position is she played by the rules and that transpeople shouldn’t be disqualified for transitioning

your use of the phrase “wailing on”, in describing a trans woman, given your post history, could read as a man posing as a woman to impose their strength on others

the same thing you’re doing in regards to Lea Thomas

2/23/2023 8:34:19 PM

I don't think someone should be retroactively disqualified for participating according to the rules at the time, but that doesn't mean I agree that the rules were correct or fair.

On Jeopardy it was an intellectual beat-down. No physical strength required, and no problem with that. You just misinterpreted my comment because you were looking for and assuming the worst in my post, which I can understand.

What I seriously don't get is your confidence that there is no biological advantage conferred on trans women. Or is that a misattribution and you are just falling back on the rules as written? Or is it because this is not very common and trans people have a hard enough time already, so why don't we all just look the other way on it? Or a little of both?

You may not believe me, but I truly do have an interest in how you think about these issues and how you arrive at your reasoned positions.

2/23/2023 8:51:58 PM

Quote :

" but that doesn't mean I agree that the rules were correct or fair."

do you think you know more on the subject than those who created the rules?

Quote :

" Or is that a misattribution and you are just falling back on the rules as written? Or is it because this is not very common and trans people have a hard enough time already, so why don't we all just look the other way on it? Or a little of both?"

ding ding ding

there is an awful movement that’s going on right now in which people, who are in no way experts, are passing and enacting laws that single out and attack the LGBT community

a movement that was put on steroids when Lia Thomas completed in a swimming tournament. some the absolute worst people have been using her in an attempt to enact those laws

2/23/2023 10:56:44 PM

I don't think I know more. And nor are they imbued with infallibility. As someone else pointed out, apparently the rules have since been modified. The unanticipated questions and situations are outpacing the capacity to fairly adjudicate in real-time. Thus some monitoring and adjustment is likely appropriate.

2/24/2023 4:47:06 PM

https://www.mediamatters.org/daily-wire/daily-wire-host-you-have-ban-transgenderism-entirely

Quote :

" This is what it's always been about. It has nothing to do with protecting children or women's sports. The right doesn't want trans people to exist"

https://twitter.com/theserfstv/status/1630280384851378178?s=46&t=Nj6Gn_bQpt_r67kzvN9shQ

Quote :

"You need to realize just how bad this is becoming. Funded by billionaires, these monsters stoke division and hatred. They've realized the best way to rile people up is to push for genocide, while pretending they're sticking up for peoples' rights. And it's going to get worse."

https://twitter.com/dave_4_days/status/1630278571007655938?s=46&t=Nj6Gn_bQpt_r67kzvN9shQ

[Edited on February 27, 2023 at 2:37 PM. Reason : .]

2/27/2023 2:33:22 PM

How often are the tables turned in this discussion and you have people born biologically female playing traditional male sports?

2/27/2023 3:28:41 PM

Seems like that's a question to ask on google.com instead of tww.com

2/27/2023 3:48:34 PM

^^^
is it any longer ethical to go to chick fil a
I must know

[Edited on February 27, 2023 at 4:37 PM. Reason : Me]

2/27/2023 4:36:49 PM

^^^

still waiting on your evidence of this:

Quote :

" I’m a bigot because I don’t believe publicly sexualized nudity should be a thing at drag shows"

2/27/2023 4:40:56 PM

The owners of chik fila suck but there is no ethical consumption under capitalism (or humanity, as the Good Place taught us).

2/27/2023 4:42:03 PM

^^
there was a video that came out of a bar in miami where a drag star was mostly nude and topless and was parading around a toddler in front of a crowd
but to be fair that was in florida so it doesn't count
nor would it be fair to extrapolate that to all drag performances

2/27/2023 4:59:21 PM

And at least for me, I'm not extrapolating to all shows. But there have been enough anecdotes for enough people to say something about it.

Again, I've never stood here and said we should ban drag shows. What I have said, is that we should keep kids out of the ones that have adult content. And we should keep adult content out of the public space. I don't understand why that is such a big deal to this community.

I mean, I would expect the same standards for any non-trans event as well.

2/27/2023 6:36:19 PM

We should keep the hardcore pornography production out of elementary school classrooms! Why is there no law against it yet?!?!?

2/27/2023 6:55:30 PM

Quote :

" But there have been enough anecdotes for enough people to say something about it."

is there a video you can post or at least link to?

Quote :

"non-trans event?"

what?

2/27/2023 7:51:05 PM

Can't post a link to things that don't actually exist

2/27/2023 8:09:13 PM

all i know is furries are pedos

2/27/2023 10:40:56 PM

2/28/2023 1:14:57 AM

Quote :

"Yiff relates to sexual content within the furry fandom. It can be furry porn (as in pornographic images or movies) or it can be sexual interaction involving furries (the fans themselves or the characters)."

YIFF YIFF YIFF YIFF YIFF

2/28/2023 12:16:49 PM

pretty damn timely video from Vice:

2/28/2023 12:23:08 PM

comment on the video -->

Quote :

"The scariest thing to me is how I feel like I can't even understand people speaking my own language anymore. Back in the day slang would be pretty widespread and stick around for at least a few years, but now the internet has created these echo chambers across the spectrum that basically invent their own jargon and new definition of existing words, then vomit it all over public discourse. How are we supposed to communicate and function as a society when we literally aren't operating with the same understanding of what words mean?"

L take imo

also, ignoring the trans topic, why does vice act so blatantly stupid at times?
they said "proud boys turned up with automatic weapons". you haven't been able to buy new automatics for decades, and they're showing a clip of them holding what are 99% likely semi-automatics

[Edited on February 28, 2023 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2023 2:16:28 PM

Come on man, don't buy into that whole gun-nut argument "It's not an automatic weapon, it's a semi-automatic weapon!!!!1" .

Who cares, what does it matter?

[Edited on February 28, 2023 at 3:50 PM. Reason : they're showing up with guns]

2/28/2023 3:49:12 PM

It isn't semantics, there is a very big difference when it comes to public perception.
And I'm not stating that to justify them bringing guns there. Learning the basics is just an easy step journalists can take to not allow these "gun nuts" to strawman legitimate arguments about gun control in the first place.



[Edited on February 28, 2023 at 4:47 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2023 4:39:36 PM

Quote :

"there is a very big difference when it comes to public perception."

no, there isn’t

the only difference in perception is with gun nuts

the average person has no idea what the difference between automatic and semi-automatic is

both are capable of shooting a hell of a lot of bullets in a short amount of time. that’s all that matters.

2/28/2023 5:37:59 PM

Exactly, they don't know the difference and this results in people throwing around random terms when discussing this issues in order to make their point sound more valid. Just read any internet discussion about it. The first step to having proper discussions on issues is establishing the base that we can state the facts and not try to provoke emotional responses --> a standard more important for journalists.

You also supported my main point, which is that this simple fix would shut down the most common strawman "gun nuts" use against people who may make legitimate arguments regarding guns (since according to you only "gun nuts" would notice and point out this legislation).

When I'm not even defending the people with the guns in this situation (on the contrary I oppose these people showing up and threatening others), it seems like an awful lot of unnecessary effort to defend them on this matter when they're literally saying something false.

[Edited on February 28, 2023 at 5:53 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2023 5:49:09 PM

the distinction doesn’t matter at all

only the “well actually” contingent, who are also extremely online, freak out about it

the fact that you said, “Just read any internet discussion about it” says it all

2/28/2023 6:42:09 PM

Quote :

"why does vice act so blatantly stupid at times?"

Well, vice is blatantly stupid.

2/28/2023 6:50:07 PM

^^I don't think you understood my point. I agreed that they don't know the difference in the first line of my comment and then said that is the problem cause it leads to uninformed discussions and needless arguments and strawmans which distract from the legitimate points on the gun control argument. I mentioned the internet in this context very clearly, which should've been made a 100% clear with the entire paragraph afterwards being dedicated to that point in context to people's reaction to the press.

In your comment you speak as if we should just ignore gun people and pretend they don't exist by saying only they notice the difference. Perhaps that is the difference in perspective. That isn't a solution when I'm sure you'd agree that these very "gun nuts" are often synonymous to those spreading that hate online which your video says is increasing. And by the 'law of intersectionality', they do indeed mix.

All in all, you just keep on repeating the same thing when I am on your side on the greater picture here. I'm not sure if this is cause you genuinely didn't understand what was written or are understandably somewhat blinded by the nature of the issues being discussed.
In fact, I'm on your supposed side regarding the bigger picture about the protestors, and simply believe that the more accurate we can be, the better. Unless you are assuming some political connotation under my comments, I genuinely am confused by why this is problematic to you.

[Edited on February 28, 2023 at 6:58 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2023 6:51:24 PM

Quote :

"In your comment you speak as if we should just ignore gun people and pretend they don't exist by saying only they notice the difference."

because we should. a whole hell of a lot of them are edge lords who could give a fuck about gun violence of any kind.

I say this as someone who has plenty of gun owners in their family and are all for gun control. they just aren’t as loud and bombastic as the gun nuts.

2/28/2023 6:58:21 PM

2/28/2023 7:15:13 PM

pretty damn timely video from Vice:

2/28/2023 7:27:30 PM

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/mississippi-governor-signs-bill-banning-transgender-health-care-minors-rcna72765

Quote :

"Mississippi governor signs bill banning transgender health care for minors Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves invited Matt Walsh, a commentator for the right-wing news outlet Daily Wire, to speak at the bill signing"

[Edited on March 1, 2023 at 12:33 AM. Reason : .]

3/1/2023 12:32:56 AM

Matt Walsh is a tool

3/1/2023 5:04:51 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/01/sport/vermont-basketball-transgender-athlete-spt-intl/index.html

And as far as that Mississippi bill is concerned, I don't support it or any others that aren't backed by any medical professionals. This is no different than male lawmakers putting out bills banning abortions. And we know the impetus for these bills banning gender-affirming care - it's all political.

However, you have doctors that have abused the prescription of opioids for years. Who is to say that you have agenda driven doctors out there prescribing things like puberty blockers to families who haven't gone through all the proper channels first (psychological evaluation, proof of long-standing gender dysphoria, etc) and just want to rubber-stamp the medication?

My daughter is 9, and is starting to show early signs of puberty. If we were concerned that she wanted to go through a transition, we'd need to get her started on pubertal blockers soon.

My daughter also cries when I don't let her watch TV when she gets home from school. Should I be making potentially life-altering decisions based on the whim of a 9 year old? Again, I realize that on paper, patients need to show long-standing evidence of gender-dysphoria. I just hope that really happens. What if they decide a few years down the road that it wasn't the right choice for them but the potential damage to future fertility has already been done?

The bill that the Mississippi govorner is pushing doesn't care about such situations and is 100% politically motivated, but I don't necessarily disagree with banning pubertal blockers for children. Also, these medical doctors that do that are using the pubertal blocker medication in such a way that isn't FDA approved.



[Edited on March 1, 2023 at 8:53 AM. Reason : asdfs]

3/1/2023 8:27:49 AM

I came to make another edit but it wouldn't let me.

I wanted to add that as a parent, if you feel that gender-affirming care is the best path forward for your child, have at it. As with abortion, I don't feel like it's the right choice, but it isn't my choice to make. Your decision doesn't impact me or my family in the slightest.

Until

Until my daughter plays soccer against a team that has a male identifying as a female. Then it gets personal. Your decision no longer impacts just you and your family. One can argue at 9 that it won't make a difference, and you're right, it doesn't. But give it a few years and it will.

3/1/2023 9:07:28 AM

Quote :

" However, you have doctors that have abused the prescription of opioids for years. Who is to say that you have agenda driven doctors out there prescribing things like puberty blockers to families who haven't gone through all the proper channels first (psychological evaluation, proof of long-standing gender dysphoria, etc) and just want to rubber-stamp the medication?"

my god

I beg you to read one thing on the opioid crisis before making an insane claim like that

3/1/2023 11:08:55 AM

He's not going to read a goddamn thing.

3/1/2023 11:10:54 AM

I'm not comparing pediatric endocrinologists to the doctors that wrote scripts for the George brothers' pain clinics in FL. I'm talking about doctors who have patients who can be very convincing and can pull on heartstrings without going through all the proper diagnoses. But that wasn't even the main point I was trying to make.

Children change their interests. I get that on paper you're supposed to show a long-standing trend. I just wonder how often that happens before parents commit to potentially organ damaging therapy.

3/1/2023 11:27:09 AM