Quote :

"omg pelosi is reportedly telling house dems impeachment should only be on ukraine"

There's one thing that's got me thinking that she might be right about this. We've got 13 months until the election. I just don't see that being enough time to thoroughly investigate all of Trump's many, many likely wrongdoings, some of which are sprawling and complex.

You can vote to impeach without a thorough investigation, of course, but then you leave yourself massively exposed to the possibility that the Trump team has bits of exculpatory evidence to break out in the Senate and make you, rather than the GOP Senators, look like a fool. Even if they don't have that ace in the hole, a sloppy investigation does you no favors with voters, and there's no bonus points for being right if voters think you're wrong.

Ukraine is simple, straightforward, flagrant, and fresh. The investigation phase can be done quickly, and there's relatively few dilatory actions the White House can take. It's easy for voters to understand, and it's easy to frame it in terms that appeal to a broad base. But the most important thing is speed. The longer you give Fox News, etc. to repeat the "witch hunt" and "presidential harassment" mantras, the less mileage you get out of impeachment.

I'm concerned that if you expand this to include everything Trump has done, it will give them a thousand opportunities to slow things down until after the election, at which point one of two things happens: either he leaves office, in which case we spent a year doing nothing; or he stays in office, which means the whole operation has backfired anyway, and even if we go to a Senate vote it will be meaningless.

9/26/2019 9:06:52 AM

all of those investigations are months or years old already

9/26/2019 9:25:08 AM

aaronburro: this call is nothing
white house lawyers: shit shit shit, remove the word-for-word transcript from the normal system for such calls and put into codeword system!

9/26/2019 9:32:19 AM

https://twitter.com/jessbidgood/status/1177208595861200898?s=21

Man is this guy just the worst kind of power-hungry opportunist. Just lighting all credibility on fire on a daily basis.

9/26/2019 9:50:10 AM

^^^Agreed.
^^ I never said this call was nothing. In fact I said quite the opposite. Rather, I've said that, by itself, it's not enough politically to support impeachment without serious blowback.

Quote :

"FWIW, NPR got hold of a memo that cleared the funds to go to Ukraine, directly refuting Trump's claim that he was holding funds because of corruption concerns. https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764453663/pentagon-letter-undercuts-trump-assertion-on-delaying-aid-to-ukraine-over-corrup"

I'm not sure that refutes Trump's claim that *he* was concerned. It gives reason to say he shouldn't have been concerned, but one agency's analysis doesn't reflect upon a different person's beliefs. Of course, you and I both know that Trump's claimed "concern" is bullshit. Also, an obvious out here (for team Cheeto) is that the funds were finally released under congressional pressure, not because Ukraine did his Biden bidding.

[Edited on September 26, 2019 at 9:56 AM. Reason : ]

9/26/2019 9:55:32 AM

Just read the whistleblower complaint. That adds more fuel, to be sure. It gives Congress leads they need to track down, especially why in the hell they moved the word-for-word transcript out of the place it would normally be stored. That's certainly moving into "Nixon erasing tapes" territory.


One thing is for sure: What Rudy is doing needs to be made explicitly illegal, if it's not already. Under no circumstances should a privately-retained attourney be making diplomatic appointments on behalf of the President without government oversight. They also need to subpoena Rudy immediately.

9/26/2019 10:25:42 AM

I'll just go back to ignoring the Earl stuff because keeping me out seems to be part of the whole bit.

What do you guys think about Zalensky denying the whole thing? The alleged victim. Is he just lying now to save Trump and help....Putin?

Make sure you stretch before your floor routine.

Quote :

"Earl is in lockstep with Trump."

You should mentally test claims before putting them out. You always base your claims on connections you base off of one specific thing without testing them on other things. Its true that Trump is against this Ukraine impeachment idea and so am I but you should look a little deeper before claiming we are in lockstep. If you just took 3 seconds to look back at my post you would see that I questioned why they are impeaching him for this and not concentration camps. Suddenly it all breaks down unless you think Trump is also wondering why he wasn't impeached over concentration camps. This would have been simple and you know it but being lazy its much easier just to say anyone who doesn't hold your view is a Trump supporter.

Quote :

"(And he may even be referencing the Biden video that is out of context that has been circulating the rightwing fever swamps because that is joe Earl rolls)"

So is the video of Biden bragging about doing a quid pro quo with a conflict of interest a deep fake or something? Or is it just inadmissible because the right brought it up?


Also
Pelosi:

Quote :

"no one is above the law"

Except anyone who is running for president and their family.

I can't wait to vote shahid. (woops i'm in lockstep with trump again for wanting pelosi defeated. I'm sure he's a huge buttar fan.

[Edited on September 26, 2019 at 11:43 AM. Reason : lol a case so weak the victim is siding with the defense ]

9/26/2019 11:42:02 AM

Kinda funny that Trump tweeted out “nothing improper” in response to the whistleblower complaint. Not “all lies, “untrue,” or “fake news”

It reveals the truth: he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. Rudy REALLY fucked things up, too.

Aside from that, this Maguire grilling has had it’s moments. His attempts to elicit pity haven’t really worked (debating the word URGENT is a mega distraction) and it’s been fun to see Swalwell, Spear, etc dunk on him.

9/26/2019 11:45:35 AM

Quote :

" So is the video of Biden bragging about doing a quid pro quo with a conflict of interest a deep fake or something? Or is it just inadmissible because the right brought it up?"

JFC. Go away. This has been fact checked dozens of times. You are no different than Benny Johnson or Charlie Kirk at this point. Congrats.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/09/25/politics/fact-check-trump-made-false-claim-to-ukrainian-president-to-justify-his-biden-request/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

There. I helped you. Daniel Dale, who is the absolute best fact checker around right now, wrote this. So fuck off with your inevitable CNN schtick.

[Edited on September 26, 2019 at 11:48 AM. Reason : X]

9/26/2019 11:46:27 AM

https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/1177207167503478785

Quote :

" The complaint,citing multiple US officials, alleges that White House lawyers have been stuffing politically troubling records of presidential calls into highly classified storage to hide them from scrutiny throughout Trump’s presidency. This just got much bigger."

"but his phone calls!"

9/26/2019 1:08:10 PM

Somebody's going to jail.

9/26/2019 1:12:56 PM

No one's disputing the facts.

1. He said something like 'I'm here for 6 hours, fire the prosecutor or you're not getting the money' (quid pro quo)
2. His son was on the board of a company that had been investigated by said prosecutor. (conflict of interest)

Quote :

"Facts First: Joe Biden did not brag that he stopped any prosecution. Rather, he bragged that he had successfully pressured the Ukrainian government to fire a prosecutor who was widely criticized for failing to bring corruption prosecutions."

Well no shit. Everyone knew this already. No one is claiming he literally said "i fired the guy who was prosecuting my son" . Of course there were other reasons to fire him but do you think its just a coincidence that his son had a board position he wasn't qualified for while he was the point man on Ukraine? Inactive doesn't mean the investigation can't be pursued anymore. Its best to get that prosecutor out of there and get a friendly one in. You can literally accuse anyone of corruption especially in eastern European government. Its also true that other people wanted this prosecutor out but that doesn't change Hunter's circumstances. Its great cover but doesn't change the context which presents a conflict of interest for Joe at best.

Still waiting on the explanation for why the Ukranian president is in on it. I guess everyone is still waiting on Cuomo to tell them what to say.

9/26/2019 1:22:51 PM

People wanted the prosecutor gone precisely because he WASNT investigating corruption at companies like Burisma, which is included in the link I posted and has been talked about at length. Not only that, but the prosecutor Trump praises (Lutsenko) literally went on record today saying the entire argument is crazy because Hunter Biden wasn’t even on the board of the company when the alleged corruption occurred — it was two years before.

If you want to ask why on earth a druggie was on the board at all, that is fine. Board for major companies are a cesspool of self-dealing, nepotism and politics. No argument there.

To your other point, The President of Ukraine isn’t in on anything. He has a country to run and must look after his national interests. Right now that is complimenting the easiest mark in the world to make sure he gets the aid and support he desperately needs. I feel bad for the guy. Seems like a decent guy dragged into a mess. If you have two firing synapses in your brain you’d understand that.

[Edited on September 26, 2019 at 1:50 PM. Reason : Also, ffs, I think you are the only one that watches CNN here]

9/26/2019 1:49:48 PM

earl is such a twat.

9/26/2019 1:55:46 PM

Genius political move by the left.

Not only do they get Trump impeached, but at the same time throw enough shade on Biden that he's done for 2020 in the process.

9/26/2019 2:39:25 PM

of all the pundits, you just might be my favorite

9/26/2019 3:38:20 PM

??

Not once have I been anti-impeachment here.

9/26/2019 4:14:43 PM

^^^ I think that you meant:

Quote :

"Genius political move by the left. Not only do they get Trump impeached, but at the same time throw enough shade on BidenPence that he's done for 2020 in the process."

9/26/2019 4:40:54 PM

Looks like the public, even republicans, are on board with impeachment

9/26/2019 4:58:27 PM

republicans are happy because they want to drink more liberal tears.

9/26/2019 5:33:53 PM

Lol, FoxNews is pushing that the transcripts were put into the classified system because of previously leaked transcripts. (At my folks' place, and that's all my dad watches)

Only one problem... If the conversation is totally above board, then who would leak it, and why would that matter?

9/26/2019 5:57:30 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/09/giuliani-ukraine-trump-biden/598879/

1) Giuliani's personal assistant is Miss Deplorable 2019.

2) Giuliani has lost his shit.

3) America's Mayor is going to have a great fall.

9/26/2019 6:17:15 PM

Omfg, FoxNews is seriously letting a Republican congressfuck ask, repeatedly, if Obama knew Biden was withholding 1B in aid. Wtf?

9/26/2019 7:20:53 PM

Quote :

"Looks like the public, even republicans, are on board with impeachment"

All because of the way the question is asked. Thats a bigg ass "If" and I'm surprised that numbers are only 55% "if" they prove Trump did the worst thing they are accusing him of with the intent they are accusing of. Think about it, that poll is saying if the investigation goes the best way it can, they will still have 45% of the country opposing and that % sounds eerily familiar.

I wonder what the numbers would like like if the question was based on the facts and read

"If President Donald Trump suspended military aid to Ukraine and asked the country's president to find out if Joe Biden stopped prosecution into his son, would you support or oppose impeachment?"

9/26/2019 9:39:53 PM

It’s amazing how many people think impeachment = removal from office.

9/26/2019 9:49:00 PM

Quote :

"I wonder what the numbers would like like if the question was based on the facts and read "If President Donald Trump suspended military aid to Ukraine and asked the country's president to find out if Joe Biden stopped prosecution into his son, would you support or oppose impeachment?""

LOL! If the question was based on the facts then it wouldn't read that way bro.

9/26/2019 10:08:34 PM

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1177409860033552384?s=20

Guiliani is saying the State Dept told him to talk to Ukraine

Why is the State Dept telling the President's personal criminal defense lawyer to negotiate with Ukraine on this? Rudy has to realize what he's claiming here... either that or he's the dumbest lawyer on the planet.

9/27/2019 12:03:14 AM

Taking out Earls stupidity trolling and the clear trend toward the public supporting impeachment across MULTIPLE trolls, the question referenced actually is pretty poor. It implies Republicans support impeachment but the reality is as written it means that IF they believe the Ukraine call was pressure would they support it. We all know, that just like Earl, they only believe what Trump or the RW echo chamber tells them so...

[Edited on September 27, 2019 at 7:25 AM. Reason : X]

9/27/2019 7:25:32 AM

Tulsi is in.

Earl to follow.

9/27/2019 12:43:39 PM

I just think its ridiculous how you can get away with countless human rights abuses but everything comes down the moment you cross the deep state and try to investigate a royal family. The phrase "no one is above the law" couldn't be further from the truth.

I've come to terms with the fact that some things are just untouchable in this country just like the information Epstein was going to give out.

9/27/2019 12:55:39 PM

k

9/27/2019 1:53:14 PM

I think it is incredulous that people at this point disagree with impeaching Trump.

It's also incredulous that those same people just shrug off the supposed coincidence with Biden's relationship to the Ukraine and his family.

Why can't both be taken seriously?

9/27/2019 2:00:09 PM

What should we take seriously about Biden and Ukraine?

9/27/2019 2:27:41 PM

Tell me more about Biden's corruption in Ukraine.

9/27/2019 2:28:16 PM

^, ^^

Your comments are exactly what I mean. The mere dismissal of the suggestion. No one finds it an odd coincidence that Biden's son finds himself on the board of a company operating in the Ukraine, while his father is given responsibility with Ukraine. Then his father withholds funding from the country until a prosecutor investigating corruption in his son's company is fired?

I get that the prosecutor was investigating corruption that supposedly happened prior to Hunter's addition to the board, but at the very least, we're looking at a conflict of interest.

[Edited on September 27, 2019 at 2:44 PM. Reason : I mean, does that pass everybody's smell test without a second sniff?]

9/27/2019 2:38:43 PM

the actual ukraine story has been explained and spelled out for you in this very thread

9/27/2019 2:54:51 PM

Just as an aside, but does a vice president even have the authority to withhold aid funds from a country?

9/27/2019 3:19:02 PM

^^yes, there is a link on this very page that lays it all out.

9/27/2019 3:29:11 PM

Quote :

"Then his father withholds funding from the country until a prosecutor investigating corruption in his son's company is fired?"

Cmon man. Read the link I posted. Or any other link about it. One of the literal cited reasons they wanted Shokin gone was precisely because he was NOT investigating Burisma! The actual polar opposite of what you said!

And like I said, Hunter Biden had no business being anywhere near a board of any company. Unfortunately, ridiculous board appointees are just a function of capitalism.

[Edited on September 27, 2019 at 3:32 PM. Reason : C]

9/27/2019 3:31:13 PM

^^^ biden was there working on behalf of the president

9/27/2019 4:42:34 PM

My favorite thing about the chart posted is that of those who don't know which party they support, an overwhelming majority of them also don't know if they support impeachment.

9/27/2019 4:45:40 PM

Quote :

"It's also incredulous that those same people just shrug off the supposed coincidence with Biden's relationship to the Ukraine and his family. "

Didn't you hear, CNN already debunked that so hurry up and forget about it. Those aren't the droids you're looking for.

9/27/2019 4:52:09 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/hunter-bidens-legal-socially-acceptable-corruption/598804/

9/27/2019 5:12:45 PM

I love how Biden’s son’s appointment is driving Trump supporters insane, because even the optics of nepotism look deeply corrupt, which somehow justifies Trump using his private attorney to help him acquire dirt from a foreign country. Nevermind the fact that Trump’s own children got high level positions (Ivanka, Don Jr., etc) for no other reason that being his kids. And nevermind all of Trump’s conflicts of interest with his shady business dealings and using the WH to make himself richer off the backs of hard-working Americans’ tax dollars.

It’s all just so inconceivable to them that Trump isn’t allowed to do whatever the fuck he wants.

Sad and downright scary.

9/27/2019 5:24:53 PM

Quote :

" Didn't you hear, CNN already debunked that so hurry up and forget about it. Those aren't the droids you're looking for."

Give me something that Daniel Dale has been wrong about, fact checking wise.

He’s as meticulous and substantive as anyone.

I know your ignorant ass was going to play the CNN card though.

9/27/2019 7:17:19 PM

White house also put called to Putin and the Saudi Prince on 5he same server

9/27/2019 7:42:00 PM

Barr is in Italy for some reason

Volker, the guy Guiliani shared text messages with regarding Ukraine, resigned.

It’s weird to say the least that guiliani, as the president’s personal criminal defense lawyer, was so involved in American foreign policy...

9/27/2019 11:47:04 PM

^^and 2 other Saudis as well.

“Don’t give me too much shit on Khashoggi”

“Do me a favor, though. Keep gas cheap”

9/28/2019 12:13:47 AM

Also solicited a bribe from the NRA
(which per yesterdays senate report has been acting as a Russian agent)

Amazing how dem leadership just going on the offensive a little bit has already led to so many people talking

9/28/2019 1:24:31 PM

Chris Wallace looking like tim russert in the interviews today.

9/29/2019 1:56:47 PM