you definitely want her to act and campaign like clinton or pelosi, not warren

either your post history doesn't reflect your beliefs or your statement that "dems shouldn't appeal to all people, they should pick someone like warren" doesn't reflect your beliefs, they are in conflict with each other

my take is that you're educated enough to understand the importance of progressive policies, which is why you like warren, but you are like establishment dems in that you are too gun shy to actually want to take a stand on issues

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:07:42 PM

do you prefer sanders or warren?

8/2/2019 2:10:21 PM

i like them both, i think sanders does a better job connecting with working class people but both are great. Warren has been more forceful pushing back lately and I think is doing a much better job on messaging. the DNA thing had me down on Warren, but she seems like maybe she learned from that fuck up and won't engage the right like that again.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:12:42 PM

Wow. I have said that the Dems should TRY to appeal to independents/swing voters, because they should if they want to win an election that's decided by the EC. They should absolutely TRY to appeal to people who voted for Trump last time, because some of those voters may regret it, or may still be undecided.

You keep twisting that argument into something different: Dems should be more centrist.

That's not my argument, and it hasn't been. Like others have stated, the goal should be to try and sell progressive ideas in ways that are more likable to everyone.

As for the Pelosi thing, AGAIN, my argument was that what she was doing was unsurprising and that she's being a typical politician.

Quote :

""To be clear, I'm not in any way condoning/approving what she's doing. I think it's cowardly and pathetic and harms our democracy in immeasurable ways. I just don't see why anyone is surprised that she's taking this tactic. It's beyond obvious to me."

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:12:52 PM

Quote :

"And as infuriating as it is, punting and saying "well the Senate won't do it" is still accurate up to this point. She can sit back and wait for congressional testimony to unfold as long as she can and it won't really hurt her. It's not like she's going to get voted out of office for using stall tactics, as shitty as they are."

Quote :

"? I mean do the Dems think they'll score a moral victory by "rushing" the impeachment route when they have zero chance of removing him from office? Will it hurt his approval enough to have him lose the election? IDK, but I can see why she'd not want to take her chances."

this is more than just saying it's unsurprising, this is agreeing. and warren isn't this

she's also not afraid to call out trump's racism, which you've said is bad

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:16 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:14:29 PM

I'm still a Bernie person, but Warren really solidified her stance on M4A this last debate. I also appreciated her exchange with Bullock on nuclear weapons. Fuck that guy.

They really need to do a better job on border issues, and I don't think you need to pander to Republicans to do it.

8/2/2019 2:16:12 PM

^^you also need to admit moderates cannot be ignored.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:17:20 PM

that isn't where your message should be centered, moderates aren't going to stay home because of warren's message for example. and you should absolutely ignore trump voters or non-leaning independents.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:21 PM. Reason : fuck trump voters]

8/2/2019 2:19:56 PM

There is a subset of "moderates" (David Brooks, Bret Stephens, etc) who are operating in bad faith, will never accept lefty policy, and should be told to fuck off.

There are other moderates who don't understand where they fit on the political spectrum, or have never been presented with good arguments, and can be convinced to vote in their best interest. This applies to some republicans as well.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:21:36 PM

^^i hope the majority of your thousands of posts arent political because thats just an absurd point of view. i assume you know winning the electoral college depends on coalition building?

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:22:12 PM

Quote :

"this is more than just saying it's unsurprising, this is agreeing. and warren isn't this she's also not afraid to call out trump's racism, which you've said is bad "

Stop conflating my observations/opinions about Nancy Pelosi with my support and approval for Warren and her ideas.

I can think Warren is the best candidate for president because she has the best ideas and best way of selling them to voters. I can also think, like you did btw, that she made some missteps and had a lot of work to do to become more electable.

I can think Nancy Pelosi's actions behaviors are obvious, low-risk, and unsurprising.

I can think that the media and the Dems are dumb for repeatedly falling into familiar traps that Trump sets regarding race, and that they can correct the behavior by using different language (unAmerican, unpresidential, etc) that is less likely to scare away UNDECIDED/INDEPENDENTS (hint: NOT TYPICAL REPUBLICANS/TRUMP SUPPORTERS).


Believing those three different sets of ideas doesn't make me a centrist democrat. If I really were, I'd be defending Biden at every opportunity, screaming about how he's still the front runner, etc.

Let it go. You're a bully and not even good at it.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:22:22 PM

but calling out the presidents racism isn't a minor disagreement on how to accomplish thing, it's a big issue and most demographics did not like trumps racist statements. calling out that kind of racism is the right thing to do, and it will motivate voters. impeachment is similar, having these crimes highlighted will similarly motivate voters and is the right thing to do.

this is where you disagree with Warren and progressives, and I don't agree with you that it's a minor difference. it's important to call out and challenge racism. it's important to hold the president accountable.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:25:43 PM

im a democrat and im going to stay home in light of the worst president ever and the worst GOP ever.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:34 PM. Reason : im stupid]

8/2/2019 2:32:44 PM

so no different than the voters who stayed home in 2016

8/2/2019 2:34:52 PM

or voted third party in protest

8/2/2019 2:36:10 PM

^^are you so dumb you think nothing has changed?

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:36:14 PM

Quote :

"or voted third party in protest "

exactly

bland politics didn't win these voters in 2016, it's folly to think that it will in 2020. avoiding calling the president a racist is bland. not wanting to take advantage of having trump's crimes highlighted every day is bland

Quote :

"^^are you so dumb you think nothing has changed?"

it's inevitable that people will show up to vote because trump is so bad was an argument made in 2016 too, that's why clinton had 100's fewer field offices than obama because they thought voters would of course show up


[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:40 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:37:32 PM

Nothing has perceptibly changed for the average non-online and non-politics-obsessed person since 2016.

8/2/2019 2:39:57 PM

8/2/2019 2:42:47 PM

The worst argument is that Biden has the best chance of winning moderates who voted for Trump last time or stayed home.

Trump made 2016 a referrendum on Obama's presidency. He pegged Clinton as an Obama lackey. Tore into Obamacare. Called Obama's trade deals terrible for the country and said he'd end the Iran nuclear deal (though hopefully people have realized how bad all of those changes have been by now).

Biden is still leaning on Obama to hold himself up in this primary. Moderates who did not like Obama have no reason to like Biden unless the only reason they disliked Obama was racism. Even if they dislike Trump now, they're staying home.

Democrats have to preach to the choir. It's only way you get them to sing.

8/2/2019 2:43:53 PM

Quote :

"exactly bland politics didn't win these voters in 2016, it's folly to think that it will in 2020. avoiding calling the president a racist is bland. not wanting to take advantage of having trump's crimes highlighted every day is bland"

It's a bit arrogant of you to assume you have all independent/swing voters all figured out and that you can precisely pinpoint what makes them vote the way they do on a predictable basis.

Maybe that's why you're actually advocating for a repeat campaign of 2016, which was riddled with in-party fighting among the left. One where a lot of pissed off people fell for Russian bot propaganda, handing Trump critical wins in just a few key swing districts.

If your strategy is to call people who support the same candidate as you names whenever you disagree with them to feel unity and solidarity, it's a dumb one.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:45 PM. Reason : bland is nicer than gaslighting, so good start!]

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:46 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:44:22 PM

the infighting is coming from centrists

the majority of the house wants impeachment, most of the top candidates too. most of the candidates aren't afraid to speak out against trump's racism, same for the party.



[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:49 PM. Reason : gaslighting cuck?]

8/2/2019 2:46:44 PM

only republicans use the word cuck as an insult. perhaps youre just some right-wing troll that starts fights like on facebook.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:48 PM. Reason : discord]

8/2/2019 2:48:17 PM

I'm not a centrist- I'm planning on voting for the same candidate as you (Warren). I'd love for Trump to get impeached (AND REMOVED FROM OFFICE), but that's not going to happen, even if it should. Why are you still calling me names?



[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:55 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:48:39 PM

because your position that racism shouldn't be called out is frankly deplorable

Quote :

"I'd love for Trump to get impeached, but that's not going to happen, even if it should."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/02/politics/half-house-democrats-impeachment/index.html

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:54 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:49:37 PM

I'm not saying racism shouldn't be called out. I'm saying if you want to reach as wide of an audience as possible, there are better ways to be able to change hearts and minds, which includes attacking Trump's policies and behaviors. We've gone over this before and you don't understand the psychology of racist whites (who don't think they're racist) as well as you think you do. You've written these people off and said their votes don't matter, when they absolutely do.

You keep twisting the argument around because you refuse to admit that you're a mean spirited bully.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:54 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:53:55 PM

Bernie's M4A plan is in theory very similar to many comparable plans in the European western block. These plans are financed by a general, across-the-board tax affecting all that are employed or receive unemployment.

I can not see any reality where that type of tax gets passed in the country. The problem is the simple 6th grade math behind it all.

Let's say Bernie institutes a 5% M4A tax for his single payer system. Money would then be collected via the tax and put into one big pot for health care. That means that when somebody in the mid to lower class goes to a doctor or dentist, they would in theory still be paying the same in absolute dollars that an upper class gent would pay for the same coverage, because doctors get paid in dollars and not percentages of income. However, due to the M4A tax, the millionaire is going to be putting significantly more cash into the pot for the same coverage that an unemployed or middle class dude receives. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no precedent in recent history supporting that the wealthy would even sit down at the table to discuss this plan.

Beto's plan, for example, of extending medicare to those that are uninsured and can't afford a private plan is the only real viable solution to discuss. And yes, it will result in a tax that disproportionately hits the middle class.

8/2/2019 2:54:19 PM

^^we don't need to appeal to racist whites, and appealing to them risks losing democratic voters

you keep trying to twist your way out of this because you refuse to admit that you're just as cowardly as the centrist dems who are afraid of political fights

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:55 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 2:54:52 PM

we dont need to appeal to obviously* racist whites. fixed it for you.

the ones you need dont know theyre racist and you cant tell so shut up.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 2:59 PM. Reason : impeachment will energize more republicans than democrats. you dont understand republican psychology]

8/2/2019 2:57:14 PM

the ones who don't think they are racist are not going to stay home because you call the obviously* racist a racist

8/2/2019 2:58:30 PM

I disagree.

You are failing to make the distinction between white people who are openly racist and want racist policies, and white people who don't advocate for racist policies, but are unaware of their ignorance and racism because they don't quite get it yet. I think many racist people are redeemable (it's a taught/learned mindset) and can be educated, but it's not an easy task.

I think the approach to educating them needs to be different than what you would prefer- name calling.

8/2/2019 2:59:57 PM

god damn it. this armchair antifa is really fucking annoying and stupid.

his Kohl's polo is too fucking tight.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 3:00 PM. Reason : oops name calling]

8/2/2019 3:00:09 PM

Quote :

"Bernie's M4A plan is in theory very similar to many comparable plans in the European western block. These plans are financed by a general, across-the-board tax affecting all that are employed or receive unemployment. I can not see any reality where that type of tax gets passed in the country. The problem is the simple 6th grade math behind it all. Let's say Bernie institutes a 5% M4A tax for his single payer system."

sanders plan calls for income based premiums and progressive taxes, not a flat tax (as well as taxing capital gains, limiting tax deductions, making estate taxes more progressive, wealth tax, etc...)

8/2/2019 3:01:52 PM

are you a member of redneck revolt or recently acquire a groupon to a local range?

8/2/2019 3:02:33 PM

Quote :

"You are failing to make the distinction between white people who are openly racist and want racist policies, and white people who don't advocate for racist policies, but are unaware of their ignorance and racism because they don't quite get it yet. I think many racist people are redeemable (it's a taught/learned mindset) and can be educated, but it's not an easy task. I think the approach to educating them needs to be different than what you would prefer- name calling."

i am not failing to make that distinction, i don't think there is a chance of winning any significant or relevant amount of the openly racist vote and those people should thusly be ignored

you're also confusing me not being polite to someone with how i think politicians should act and I'm not sure why you've confused those

Quote :

"are you a member of redneck revolt or recently acquire a groupon to a local range?"

no, membership to those groups is dangerous. no groupon needed, i've been a member of a club for years.



[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 3:07 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 3:05:51 PM

Oh, that's right. dtownral is a gun owner. WHAT A FUCKING PROGRESSIVE!

Even though he's going to vote for Warren, he has blood on his hands and doesn't care about children being murdered or mass shootings.

8/2/2019 3:08:01 PM

Quote :

"sanders plan calls for income based premiums and progressive taxes, not a flat tax (as well as taxing capital gains, limiting tax deductions, making estate taxes more progressive, wealth tax, etc...)"

Good luck with that.

And for the record, his proposed payment schemes are still very obscure, and prolly because the tax will hit the middle class.

8/2/2019 3:08:31 PM

^^^this is a lot of typing to just say youre an angry sanders supporter no matter what. i could probably type an extremely accurate profile.

1) shops at Kohl's

2) drives an old BMW

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 3:08:55 PM

yep, i proudly strongly support and advocate for strict gun control

8/2/2019 3:09:02 PM

3) does not have an advanced degree

4) works in some kind of generic IT or networks printers for a living

8/2/2019 3:10:02 PM

Quote :

"Good luck with that. And for the record, his proposed payment schemes are still very obscure, and prolly because the tax will hit the middle class."

have you tried looking at all? the first google result are his options to finance medicare for all:
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file



[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ^i do buy socks from kohls, sometimes underwear too but they usually don't have the kind i like]

8/2/2019 3:10:17 PM

5) buys bulk ammo because of impending right wing take over and is ashamed of it at the same time

8/2/2019 3:10:55 PM

let's just take a break and sum up Warren and Sanders:

1. Attacking the rich with taxes.

2. Single payer, universal health care

3. Gun control

How is that different from any other candidate in recent history? What is so progressive about that?

8/2/2019 3:11:03 PM

^^^^^ hopefully that gun helps you sleep at night, even though most progressives abhor even the thought of giving a dime to the gun industry.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 3:11 PM. Reason : gun owners are often the biggest bullies of all. WEAK.]

8/2/2019 3:11:17 PM

6) probably doesnt actually work for any campaign or do anything locally to promote liberal values

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 3:14 PM. Reason : probably the opposite i.e. hates poor people]

8/2/2019 3:14:00 PM

benefiting gun manufacturers is the biggest ethical issue, you do your best by buying used but that still contributes to the market. i have no attachment to guns, i'll give them up when we pass sensible gun control and stop letting right wing militias arm themselves and kill people.

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ^ still just the kohls thing]

8/2/2019 3:14:10 PM

and I'M the centrist??

lmao

8/2/2019 3:15:05 PM

i said you are as cowardly as the centrists:

Quote :

"my take is that you're educated enough to understand the importance of progressive policies, which is why you like warren, but you are like establishment dems in that you are too gun shy to actually want to take a stand on issues"

[Edited on August 2, 2019 at 3:15 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2019 3:15:23 PM

keep him going so he talks himself firmly into pariah territory.

8/2/2019 3:15:32 PM

oh he triggered

SWIDT?

8/2/2019 3:16:10 PM