I'm not big on the non movie canon, but has the rule of two ever been broken before?

Also was the rule of two ever officially established in the movies? I think there was a brief conversation about it in episode 1, but that's all I remember.

I'm wondering if this is going to go the route of most trilogies lately... this movie makes it seem like the traditional dark side vs light side, then another bigger bad guy is introduced (some old race that actually created the Force!!!), then dark and light must team up and unite the Force to defeat them.

11/3/2015 4:11:46 PM

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_of_Two

Quote :

"I'm not big on the non movie canon, but has the rule of two ever been broken before?"

The rule of two was instituted by Darth Bane and is not a hard and fast requirement of the Sith. There are multiple instances even after the rule of two was established where it was broken. Darth Tenebrous broke it with Venamis and Plagueis, Maul broke it by training his brother after surviving the fight with Qui-gon, Sidious himself broke it training Maul while still under Plagueis. So you can't use the rule of two to say that X definitely isn't a Sith because Y and Z already were around.

11/3/2015 4:33:12 PM

The conversation in episode 1 as I remember it (no way am I going back to watch it to find out) but I think they meant it as there is never just 1...always a master and a student, but not in a way that rules out having multiple students.

11/3/2015 5:21:20 PM

The problem with Star Wars and especially the sequels is that you can't expect it to be self-consistent because it's not well written. Furthermore, the concept of Star Wars canon is problematic. The extended universe books and video games aren't consistent with each other. The prequels should be forgotten as they put narrative shackles on the series that are a major detraction.

11/3/2015 5:32:23 PM

Quote :

"I'm not big on the non movie canon, but has the rule of two ever been broken before?"

Basically all the time.

There's only one official master and one official apprentice, but the master is always training new apprentices to replace the true one if he's better or they have to kill their apprentice, and the apprentices have their own pupils they are preparing for when they kill their master to take over.

11/3/2015 5:47:11 PM

Yes, but even based off of that cannon, they still ain't Sith lords. They are force sensitive people working with Sith lords. It might be semantics, but this is something that was touched upon greatly in the prequels, and honestly IMO, should have been explored too much greater depths as it actually is quite interesting mythology.

In short, the Jedi have always had numbers over the Sith, but the Sith have always had power due to the Rule of Two. This is why in the prequels Darth Maul and Sidious put up such unbelievable fights and really challenge the Jedi to a level that they have never seen before. This ethos of the Sith was touched upon in every episode of the prequels, most notably in Episode I and during the critically acclaimed opera scene of Episode III where Palpatine discusses the Tragedy of Plagueis, wherein the true power and strength of the Sith is conveyed and thoroughly explained to arguably greater depth than it was in the original trilogy. It definitely should have been the focus of the Prequels other than a weird love story, but whatever.

[Edited on November 4, 2015 at 6:22 AM. Reason : shit, DP]

11/4/2015 6:21:26 AM

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_of_Two

I would like to see the future series explore something new. For example, Vader and Palpatine die at Endor. There isnt anyone to take over the rule of 2 and lets say some inquisitors exists somewhere else in the empire and form the Knights of Ren. Or the Knights of Ren are older than the empire. Either way, they form a new form of the sith without any real guidance or bound by the rule.

I guess it will really depend on who supreme leader Snoke is. Is he a emperor or Tarkin analog? I would prefer not copying the originals and make him something unique.

Either way, you can get some interesting internal conflicts in characters not bound by the pure Sith and/or pure Jedi structures.

[Edited on November 4, 2015 at 9:29 AM. Reason : ggh]

11/4/2015 9:21:07 AM

I think most evidence so far points to him being darth plagueis, which would be an awesome tie in to Episode III.

11/4/2015 9:59:53 AM

This isn't related to the new movie just relates to the "Rule of Two". In ROTJ, Vader is the one that suggests to the emperor that Luke could be turned to the Dark Side. If the Rule of Two is hard-fast set within the Sith... wouldn't this be an awkward conversation to have between the two sith, it implies that one has to go right?

11/4/2015 3:32:25 PM

That doesn't mean Luke would be a Sith though

11/4/2015 3:45:36 PM

yeah, there are more people on the dark side than just 2.

11/4/2015 5:53:38 PM

Or, you could just toss out everything in the prequels because it violates the narrative on the original trilogy.

11/4/2015 6:07:18 PM

Whatever man, I happen to like jar jar.

11/4/2015 6:57:29 PM

luke does a shit job of training kylo ren just like obi-wan and decides to go live alone in the woods and be all "jedi are stupid sith are stupid everything is stupid" and be like one of those "grey" jaded ex-jedi you pick up in the KOTOR games

[Edited on November 5, 2015 at 2:08 PM. Reason : just speculating in case anyone yells at me]

11/5/2015 2:07:10 PM

LUKE IS NOT STUPID!!1 HE IS A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE!


[Edited on November 6, 2015 at 8:45 AM. Reason : CRRRYY]

11/6/2015 8:44:48 AM

UMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

11/6/2015 9:13:01 AM

^

11/6/2015 9:21:57 AM

11/6/2015 9:38:31 AM

that shot of the tie fighters against the sun is pretty sweet

11/6/2015 11:39:49 AM

oh ....

my....

< francis cry face >

11/6/2015 2:31:07 PM

Quote :

"luke does a shit job of training kylo ren just like obi-wan and decides to go live alone in the woods and be all "jedi are stupid sith are stupid everything is stupid" and be like one of those "grey" jaded ex-jedi you pick up in the KOTOR games"

Jolee Bindo was my boy tho

11/6/2015 3:37:56 PM

^^ same here

11/6/2015 3:57:28 PM

that trailer definitely makes it look like the black dude bites the dust.

11/6/2015 4:46:31 PM

Was he consummated at Cloud City while Han was chillin out?

11/6/2015 5:40:50 PM

Speculation

Chewbacca dies saving Ren, who is a skywaller. Fulfilling a life debt

11/6/2015 6:01:22 PM

IMO this is the first trailer to give too much away. Now we know that the storm troopers (with Captain Phasma and Ren) invade the desert planet Jakku (Rey's homeland) after searching for Finn and leave a demolishing path of destruction in their wake, which is of course very similar to the beginning of Star Wars. Then of course, I am fairly certain now that it is Finn lying wounded in the snowy-ground after a defeat by Ren. The jackets match up perfectly, and in this new trailer you get a better shot of the background and can tell that they are in a snowy forest that looks eerily similar to the Ren vs. Finn showdown.

11/7/2015 8:10:48 AM

i don't think you can really assume they're looking for finn. maybe they are, but the trailer doesn't necessarily make that apparent. there's also a bunch of wreckage and shit and they could be looking for something else there.

11/7/2015 4:43:10 PM

I thought the trailer all but confirmed most of the spoilers that have been out for a wile now.

11/7/2015 8:22:12 PM

Quote :

"Ren, who is a skywaller"

not just a skywalker

11/8/2015 4:09:56 PM

It does look good, but most trailers do so I'm not going to get excited about this. I would be happy with 20 or 30 minutes of just the tie fighters vs. the x-wings.

11/10/2015 2:29:10 PM

I think you may get some tie fighters vs x-wings.

Maybe.

11/10/2015 5:06:45 PM

Luke did not have a daughter to my knowledge.

11/11/2015 11:47:43 AM

^ unless you've read the spoiler summary that is floating around out there and is apparently true, don't you not really know anything about what's happened since rotj?

11/11/2015 3:58:50 PM

Quote :

"don't you not really know anything about what's happened since rotj"

No one does. Because none of the content out there is "canon".

11/11/2015 4:10:56 PM

Don't see why that's worthy

11/11/2015 5:53:51 PM

Had a thought. Might be spoilery. Not sure it's even interesting.

So speculation spoilers


Reys staff is a staff on a human scale. However snok is a Muun which is a very large alien species. Which is also what Darth Plaeguis is. The staff is actually a double sided lightsaber for a larger species. It's just too big for Rey.

If you think about Darth maul. He had a double sided lightsaber. But if you think about the hilt it seems impractically small. I mean you need more hilt for leverage. And if you can use the force you don't need that long of a blade. The equivalent if sticking two lightsaber back to back. I bet Reys staff/Saber isn't the same proportions of Saber length to hilt at mauls. More hilt should be expected.


End spoilers

11/26/2015 3:27:01 PM

wat

11/26/2015 5:48:43 PM

Not sure I understood any of those words.

11/26/2015 9:09:56 PM

The staff is a double sided lightsaber for the main villain who is an alien race who is much larger than humans.

11/26/2015 10:11:30 PM

^^^^ (thanks Tdub.)

11/27/2015 12:19:55 AM

Some questions, not related to The Force Awakens but not worth their own thread, maybe answered by the EU, of which I have no knowledge:

So is the rebellion from Episode 4 remnants of the same rebellion from 1-3?

How can it take 20-25 years to build one death star, and then all of a sudden they have a new almost completed death star in 2?

12/4/2015 10:10:48 AM

I guess they it took them 20-25 years to build the first one because they had to design it too. Also, the original folks building the Death Star weren't an all ruling and all powerful evil Empire so they didn't have the resources/slave labor available?

And I guess if you've already built it once you know what you are doing more the second time around.

12/4/2015 10:48:01 AM

Speculation.

The governing bodies in the galaxy are not simple.

Its not Empire and rebellion.

Its more like, Remnants of Empire, Independent sectors, New Republic sectors, New Order Systems/Sectors, and the Resistance (whateverthehellthatis).

The main thrust of the material released about post ROTJ is that once the emperor and the best of the best died at Endor the essence of the empire started shattering. Various Moffs tried to take control and its unity was broken. The New Republic was established with thousands of star systems coming into the fold. However, Mon Mothma wanted to demilitarize it. So its easy to see that its authority would immediately be weakened.

The main reason the Empire could survive is to imagine the power vacuum and the chaos in the thousands of systems who know longer have that military presence. Similar to Iraq. Systems would want to maintain imperial ways of governance.

However, I dont think anyone knows how the Main villain (sith lord) could influence this or rise out of all of it. It might be that the New Order is relatively small. With only several destroyer class ships and a superweapon planet thing. Which I find odd. And I will say again, how closely do they want this to be to A New Hope? It seems toooooo close.

TLDR: There are multiple ruling powers in different sectors of the galaxy.

12/4/2015 11:05:07 AM

Quote :

"So is the rebellion from Episode 4 remnants of the same rebellion from 1-3?"

The rebel alliance from episode 4 comes about as a result of the actions in episode 3. Bail Organa and others start the alliance to oppose palpatine and the new empire after the jedi are almost completely wiped out.

12/4/2015 11:32:03 AM

you guys do realize that there is already a film in production that is gonna explain the events between Episode III leading up to Episode IV, right?

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 1:16 PM. Reason : h]

12/4/2015 1:08:54 PM

Yes, and it's ridiculous.

12/4/2015 2:05:13 PM

^^there is? Because that's not what episode 7 is gonna do.

I thought they made it fairly obvious in 3 what was going to happen.

12/4/2015 2:27:22 PM

next year's Star Wars is about how the Rebels got the plans for the Death Star, not political bs

12/4/2015 2:39:45 PM

I am sure that the rise of the resistance will be discussed in that film.

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 3:03 PM. Reason : k]

12/4/2015 2:59:44 PM

Everything I've read/heard about those an an anthology movies is that they won't really have anything to do with the main films besides being in the same universe (as in no character crossovers). So I don't think they will reveal anything special about the alliance.

12/4/2015 6:57:58 PM