http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/us/cincinnati-police-shooting/index.html

It begins....

I bet this cop was racist and hates black people. Dubose was full of love according to his mother .

7/21/2015 7:20:24 PM

This thread...you're doing it wrong.

7/22/2015 4:03:52 AM

^^ seems justified. Therefore we can conclude systemic biases and individual racism no longer exists in this country. Praise Jesus.

7/22/2015 7:23:16 AM

Do you really think that seemed justified or are you being facetious?

7/22/2015 7:40:05 AM

Quote :

""education is the key to success, and a high school education is not a white privilege. White privilege and systematic racism exist, they account for a disparity of wealth, but in 2015 they aren't preventing minorities from escaping poverty. Yes racism caused the cycle of poverty, but in 2015 the means are there for anyone of any race to escape poverty. Privilege isn't a valid excuse if you haven't passed K-12" Agree?"

A disparity of wealth inherently makes education more difficult. Disparity in discipline procedures makes education more difficult. Disparity of school funding makes education more difficult. Whether your parents have a job, or what kinds of jobs they have affect education. Quality, free schools are an important, and a big step, but are just one gear in the overall system.

You realize there is a system at work here? You can't just say "schools seem to be mostly fair and free, this is all that matters" without looking at what goes into succeeding at school. You can't intelligently base your opinion on your own personal perspectives.

7/22/2015 11:49:11 AM

http://geargenerator.com/#100,100,50,16.666666666666668,1,0,140162.09999999526,8,1,8,2,4,27,-90,0,0,16,4,4,27,-60,1,1,24,2,12,20,-60,2,0,60,5,12,20,0,3,0,50,4.166666666666667,12,20,0,3,0,90,7.5,12,20,-90,4,0,70,5.833333333333333,12,20,-67.6,2,0,20,1.6666666666666667,12,20,-110,0,0,2,14

Here's a gear system, you can do a shift-enter to fix the RPM of any specific gear, and see how it affects the whole system, if this helps you visualize things. The whole system can only spin at the maximum speed of the slowest gear. If you pick an output gear, and lets assume, as you seem to believe, that education is the biggest gear, if you still have the justice system gear being sticky or employment, it doesn't do you any good for the output of the whole system.

7/22/2015 12:34:14 PM

wow. that's a rock-solid argument if i've ever seen one.

7/22/2015 1:12:18 PM

Don't hate, it is an analogy

7/22/2015 1:16:46 PM

Quote :

"A disparity of wealth inherently makes education more difficult. "

That's the best part about K-12 public school... it's free. Transportation is free, and if you are that poor, lunch is even free. Sure, some schools aren't funded as well, but those are the ones typically desperate to graduate students, so the escape from poverty is there if you want it. If you get pregnant at 16 and drop out of high school, or if you get in a fight and get expelled, that isn't systematic racism at work, that is a choice you made. I understand a racist system set this and the "hood culture" in motion, but people, even minorities, are accountable for their actions and choices. Most of this is just wealthy vs poor as opposed to race. When it comes to poverty, you can't help people that aren't willing to help themselves. There is majority privilege and there are minority choices.

7/22/2015 1:24:46 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/19/us/fbi-says-at-least-7-agents-attended-gatherings-displaying-racist-paraphernalia.html

Something tells me there weren't any atf agents in the 90s attending conventions where cracker hunting tags were sold...

7/22/2015 1:26:37 PM

Quote :

"sure, some schools aren't funded as well, but those are the ones typically desperate to graduate students, so the escape from poverty is there if you want it"

let me guess... you went to a nicer high school

7/22/2015 1:32:51 PM

Arnt funded well

LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLLLLZZZZZ

7/22/2015 1:35:35 PM

what a moron

7/22/2015 1:36:59 PM

^^^ it doesnt matter if he did. If he has the ability and opportunity to go to a nice school then he should take it free of remorse. The point is not to make people be ashamed of their opportunity, wealth, or whatever they have that others dont. The point is for these people who have this to realize that a large majority of blacks dont have this and why they dont have this. The why is most crucial for them to understand and then solutions can be made.

[Edited on July 22, 2015 at 1:40 PM. Reason : a]

7/22/2015 1:39:49 PM

That is my point. People who went to nicer schools don't always understand that some schools are shit. I didn't realize I went to a not-so-great school until I went to NC State and discovered that other people had WAY MORE opportunities than I did.

There were multiple instances of a double-standard at my high school for things like dress code, that would have discouraged some kids for wanting to go back to school everyday. Things that the better-off white kids could get away with, and never had to deal with.

7/22/2015 1:53:11 PM

Quote :

"The why is most crucial for them to understand and then solutions can be made."

This vague reference to "solutions" or "progress" or "moving forward" that is dependent on "white people understanding systematic racism" is what I disagree with. (In the context of minority poverty, in 2015).

Solutions for minority poverty won't come from liberals sharing white-guilt Huffington Post articles on Facebook, or from white people realizing life is easier for white people. The culture has to value education and family structure for it to be successful, that is where progress comes from in the context of escaping poverty.

7/22/2015 2:44:23 PM

Quote :

"The culture has to value education and family structure for it to be successful, that is where progress comes from in the context of escaping poverty. "

LOL, what culture is this...? Are you saying blacks don't value family structure or education? Because i'm pretty sure that's blatantly untrue.

The solution does involve, largely, an awareness of the fact that blacks don't suffer from worse results compared to other groups because of lack of effort. It's a realization that policies aren't applied equally to to blacks because of their skin color, and this has cascading effects. It's supporting scrutinizing law enforcement tactics and judicial decisions to make sure they're applied fairly, it's making sure teachers don't give worse punishment to black kids for the same behavior as white kids, it's making sure poor kids aren't punished in schools for problems relating to poverty, but rather they're given extra assistance for those problems, it's educating hiring managers that they may be subconsciously (or perhaps consciously?) rejecting resumes with black sounding names for qualifications they would pass a white person through for, it's not encouraging policies that feed the school-prison pipeline, it's holding companies like Honda accountable when their agents charge blacks more than whites.

It's paradoxical that you admit racism exists, has for decades, at least used to be a big problem, but don't want to take action on this basis, you're contempt to keep saying "not my problem" despite all reasoning.

It's like if I crashed my car into your house, removed my care and pretended it never happen, and claimed you just made bad choices when rain blows in on you, and birds poop everywhere. The house is our society, the car is racism, we've pretty much removed most of the car, now we have to start rebuilding the rest of the house.

7/22/2015 2:55:28 PM

so wild that Bill O'Reily has an account on this board

7/22/2015 2:59:04 PM

Quote :

"The culture has to value education and family structure for it to be successful"

So you're going back to the same old tired excuse that blacks just need to try harder. Im pretty certain many of us have proven over and over again in this thread that this isnt true. Doesnt matter how hard they try if there are no opportunities for them.

7/22/2015 3:01:50 PM

I think he's going back to his own personal experiences. He's seen some poor black people sitting on the stoop of their dilapidated trailer, drinking a 40 on a Wednesday afternoon, with a car with shiny rims in the driveway, and he therefore generalizes that this represents the majority of poor blacks who just aren't trying to get a job, but keep buying them fancy rims.... and I guess he's blaming the kids of these people for not having the motivation to take education and employment more seriously.

7/22/2015 3:08:21 PM

Quote :

"let me guess... you went to a nicer high school "

I actually attended an inner city school where 77% were minorities and 55% overall were on free/reduced lunch.

Amazing I still managed to get enough of an education to get into engineering at NCSU and didn't get expelled by caving to bad influences.

7/22/2015 3:12:44 PM

good for you.

7/22/2015 3:20:25 PM

If he can do it, everybody can do it!!!1

7/22/2015 4:07:35 PM

He's a big fan of sample sizes of one.

7/22/2015 4:27:59 PM

^ ha that's cracking me up more than it should...

7/22/2015 4:38:23 PM

LOL, HUR's magnet school was rough.

7/22/2015 4:54:56 PM

HUR is such a nigger, I swear

jk

has anyone dropped that word ITT yet? ayyyy

*proceeds to get hit by bus*

7/22/2015 7:46:32 PM

Yeah he dropped it a few times on page 1

7/22/2015 8:44:13 PM

I think the first one to drop it was afripino when deferentiating between black people and "n*ggas"

7/22/2015 9:56:18 PM

Thank goodness for your asterisk.

You've made white folks feel extra comfortable. Thank you?

7/22/2015 10:24:47 PM

idk why I used to say it so much

I hope I never seriously offended anyone on here with it

for some reason I've always liked to say it in jest, but don't particularly enjoy offending people (unless they're being trollz)

so sorry if I ever offended anyone in da past with it

7/22/2015 11:58:15 PM

http://morningafter.gawker.com/white-people-say-the-darnedest-things-1719756509

7/23/2015 1:12:35 PM

Quote :

" It's like if I crashed my car into your house, removed my care and pretended it never happen, and claimed you just made bad choices when rain blows in on you, and birds poop everywhere. The house is our society, the car is racism, we've pretty much removed most of the car, now we have to start rebuilding the rest of the house."

The analogy I’d use is climbing a ladder to escape rising water. In this case every race has their ladder (representing education, family structure, lawfulness) and the rising water represents poverty. Racism was white people 50 years ago pushing black people to the bottom, then breaking their ladder. That was 50 years ago though. Society has since rebuilt the ladder, the means to escape poverty and achieve wealth.

Is it fair? No, life isn’t. People start at different positions with different paths, depending on wealth. My point though, is that no matter where you are born, no matter what race, in 2015, you can take a few steps up the ladder and get out of poverty. Can you climb all the way to the top? Unlikely, but you can make progress so that your children start from a better spot than you did. Society can throw life savers, ropes, and ladders to people drowning in poverty, but they have to climb it themselves.

More white people sharing Huffington Post articles about white privilege in a liberal echo-chamber won’t do anything but encourage finger pointing.

Look at this chart of wealth by race... Asians sure do enjoy that white privilege huh? I wonder why they are successful? Government, society, racism holding back us whites and blacks I bet!


What a coincidence the Asians also have the best family structure. It's society's fault white people have so many births out of wedlock.


Once again, Asians graduating more than white people. It is society's fault more white males don't graduate, it's not like its a choice they make. If only more Asians would acknowledge their Asian privilege we could move forward in this country.


[Edited on July 23, 2015 at 1:18 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2015 1:16:50 PM

So again this idiot is equating the Asian experience with the Black experience in the United States, a favorite go-to argument for white-supremacists everywhere, despite the fact it's rooted in complete stupidity.

7/23/2015 2:19:01 PM

Not to mention its a straw man (even though he doesn't do those)

7/23/2015 2:23:34 PM

Benton County, Oregon does not like it when you link to an image of theirs without permission

7/23/2015 2:59:00 PM

Quote :

"Not to mention its a straw man (even though he doesn't do those)"

It isn't, because it's a general statement, not a direct response to anyone's quote. A straw man argument is when you quote me, then paraphrase what I said incorrectly to make it easier to attack. The go to liberal defense is to scream racism and bigotry, but since I haven't dropped 100 N-bombs like HUR, you have to make a racist straw man.

Like synapse above, rather than quote something I said and explain why he disagrees, he builds a straw man where I am equating the Asian experience with the black experience.

In reality I'm showing how family structure and high school education (choices individuals make rather than racist government) influence wealth way more than the color of your skin. That way, rather than address my point, he can tell the straw man it's argument is used by white supremacists and is stupid.
-Dont get trolled by the Asian privilege line, I couldn't resist.

[Edited on July 23, 2015 at 3:09 PM. Reason : asian privilege ]

7/23/2015 3:03:16 PM

what are the factors that go into families becoming separated?

because without getting into that, the base of your argument is that certain races care about family more than other races, which is absurd

there are a bunch of reasons why families split up, and none of them have to do with the color of their skin

[Edited on July 23, 2015 at 3:15 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2015 3:13:34 PM

timely:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/america-social-mobility-parents-income/399311/

but bootstraps, tho

7/23/2015 3:44:47 PM

one more for you JCE

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/04/14/3426579/single-mothers-poverty-benefitsP/

7/23/2015 3:57:56 PM

^ LOL ThinkProgress is biased garbage. "Poor woman gets knocked up at age 16 and remains poor, its the government's fault, look at the richest countries on earth and see how they aren't poor!"

^^ That is a good article. Moving up the ladder isn't easy, and everyone has a different starting point.

7/23/2015 4:28:33 PM

Quote :

"Conclusions and Relevance The influence of poverty on children’s learning and achievement is mediated by structural brain development. To avoid long-term costs of impaired academic functioning, households below 150% of the federal poverty level should be targeted for additional resources aimed at remediating early childhood environments."

http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2381542

How dare these poor kids choose developmentally stunted brain growth...

7/24/2015 12:02:21 AM

Quote :

"The analogy I’d use is climbing a ladder to escape rising water. In this case every race has their ladder (representing education, family structure, lawfulness) and the rising water represents poverty. Racism was white people 50 years ago pushing black people to the bottom, then breaking their ladder. That was 50 years ago though. Society has since rebuilt the ladder, the means to escape poverty and achieve wealth. Is it fair? No, life isn’t. People start at different positions with different paths, depending on wealth. My point though, is that no matter where you are born, no matter what race, in 2015, you can take a few steps up the ladder and get out of poverty. Can you climb all the way to the top? Unlikely, but you can make progress so that your children start from a better spot than you did. Society can throw life savers, ropes, and ladders to people drowning in poverty, but they have to climb it themselves. "

Wait, so when was the ladder rebuilt? Did it just only recently get rebuilt? What were the black people doing in the meanwhile while the ladder was being rebuilt? Seems like in your analogy, they would be dying in a flood, drowning trying to tread water. The ones that didn't drown surely would be exhausted from treading water all those decades.

But, in other posts, you also seem to be saying that the ladder has been there for a long time, and blacks are just choosing not to climb it, and the reason is because they don't like strong families or education? At what point in time do you perceive blacks to have stopped valuing family and education, and where does this point in time fall in the building of the ladders?

If you can explain what the effect of, in your analogy, waiting for the ladder to be built, and why the people who broke the ladder and kicked the black people off into rising water have no other responsibility to help them out of the water and onto the ladders, then it's not a bad analogy.

But it seems your "answer" is that its tough luck, life isn't fair, and even when we have societal constructs that are able to try and make things fair, we shouldn't use them, and keep charging forward. There's actually nothing wrong, if this is your belief, on a philosophical level, but surely you must see that your belief is grossly immoral and unethical by current societal standards, and it wouldn't scale out well?

Imagine if it were okay to just treat other citizens however you wanted, and bear no responsibility for how that affects them. This would be disastrous.

7/24/2015 12:15:06 AM

Quote :

"Why is it so controversial when someone says "All Lives Matter" instead of "Black Lives Matter"? Imagine that you're sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don't get any. So you say "I should get my fair share." And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, "everyone should get their fair share." Now, that's a wonderful sentiment -- indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad's smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn't solve the problem that you still haven't gotten any! The problem is that the statement "I should get my fair share" had an implicit "too" at the end: "I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else." But your dad's response treated your statement as though you meant "only I should get my fair share", which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that "everyone should get their fair share," while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out. That's the situation of the "black lives matter" movement. Culture, laws, the arts, religion, and everyone else repeatedly suggest that all lives should matter. Clearly, that message already abounds in our society. The problem is that, in practice, the world doesn't work the way. You see the film Nightcrawler? You know the part where Renee Russo tells Jake Gyllenhal that she doesn't want footage of a black or latino person dying, she wants news stories about affluent white people being killed? That's not made up out of whole cloth -- there is a news bias toward stories that the majority of the audience (who are white) can identify with. So when a young black man gets killed (prior to the recent police shootings), it's generally not considered "news", while a middle-aged white woman being killed is treated as news. And to a large degree, that is accurate -- young black men are killed in significantly disproportionate numbers, which is why we don't treat it as anything new. But the result is that, societally, we don't pay as much attention to certain people's deaths as we do to others. So, currently, we don't treat all lives as though they matter equally. Just like asking dad for your fair share, the phrase "black lives matter" also has an implicit "too" at the end: it's saying that black lives should also matter. But responding to this by saying "all lives matter" is willfully going back to ignoring the problem. It's a way of dismissing the statement by falsely suggesting that it means "only black lives matter," when that is obviously not the case. And so saying "all lives matter" as a direct response to "black lives matter" is essentially saying that we should just go back to ignoring the problem. TL;DR: The phrase "Black lives matter" carries an implicit "too" at the end; it's saying that black lives should also matter. Saying "all lives matter" is dismissing the very problems that the phrase is trying to draw attention to."

[Edited on July 24, 2015 at 1:34 AM. Reason : and gg moron for posting a stupid long link ITT]

7/24/2015 1:33:07 AM

^ha i tried to edit, but was after the 30 mins

7/24/2015 1:37:33 AM

https://soundcloud.com/the-stephen-a-smith-show/stephen-a-talks-about-the-criticism-martin-omalley-has-received-for-saying-all-lives-matter

7/24/2015 6:43:47 AM

Quote :

"saying that the ladder has been there for a long time, and blacks are just choosing not to climb it"

If the ladder is high school education, then yes. This isn't just minorities, this is all able-bodied, poor people in general.

Quote :

"But it seems your "answer" is that its tough luck, life isn't fair,"

That is my answer to just about anyone that chooses to drop out of high school, and then bitches about white privilege.

7/24/2015 9:40:03 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slVqNISUAWY

[Edited on July 24, 2015 at 9:48 AM. Reason : ]

7/24/2015 9:47:31 AM

^^ just like with broken families, there are a bunch of factors that go into drop out rates

a lot of those factors are the same, too

7/24/2015 11:01:41 AM

Agreed, but the number one factor is individual choice. High School graduation is pretty much required to not have a shitty life no matter what race you are.

7/24/2015 11:48:32 AM