I don't think anyone is denying it will be difficult or impossible, but you don't get there by not having someone spread these ideas first, and you certainly don't get there by having someone who actively opposes those ideas.

Not hard to understand how leadership works, it's in the video...

2/11/2016 3:40:02 PM

you are explicitly denying that it is impossible

there is no one kind of leadership that works for all situations. anyone with leadership experience knows that.

a fucking TED talk from a guy who made an online CD store isn't going to solve the political quagmire in DC.

the naivety of berniebros knows no bounds

[Edited on February 11, 2016 at 3:47 PM. Reason : .]

2/11/2016 3:45:01 PM

berniebros berniebros berniebros

2/11/2016 3:54:09 PM

when the shoe fits

2/11/2016 3:55:08 PM

when the berniestocks fit

2/11/2016 4:26:19 PM

bernie can get a lot done without congress and anything is better than nothing

- new supreme court justices
- attorney general that will drop the hammer on banking/white collar crime
- justice system reform
- publicly exposing congress

2/11/2016 4:40:09 PM

Quote :

" publicly exposing congress"

unless you mean he's going to pants them on live TV, bullshit. he won't do anything that hasn't already been done.

the attorney general can only enforce the laws that are already there. and the laws that are there are the problem. without news ones passed by congress, a "tough on banks" promise is toothless

and Supreme Court Justices still have to get approved. he wouldn't put anyone on the court that Clinton couldn't

this is like the white millenial equivalent of those people who were all "i don't have to worry about rent" when obama was elected.

[Edited on February 11, 2016 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

2/11/2016 5:02:52 PM

laws have been broken and criminals have been fined without any jailtime. Obama let us down by not pursuing the bush administration for war crimes or any of the 08 financial crisis perps.

2/11/2016 5:06:07 PM

"Berniebros" has to rank up there with "not ready for primetime" as one of the douchier phrases out there.

2/11/2016 5:22:37 PM

Quote :

"You realize that using extreme rhetoric to infuse paranoia in the general populace and then switching to a more moderate standpoint once elected inherently means that he is not speaking the truth?"

Actually it does mean Trump is speaking the truth. He's telling the truth, but once he gets in there I could see him maybe toning it down a little because if he doesn't then the parties will just keep fighting with each other.

2/11/2016 5:58:09 PM

^ holy shit.

2/11/2016 7:55:59 PM

wow

2/11/2016 8:58:20 PM

Trump is the great unifier guyz

2/11/2016 9:35:44 PM

shoutout to the simple minded out there

your votes count, too

2/11/2016 9:38:23 PM

Tell me about it. That's what got us our current POTUS.

Look, regardless of what Bernie thinks he can do for us, and hey, I'm all about forgiving my student debt, once he gets in the oval office, Washington will remain gridlocked, because I guarantee you this congress will be more against any policy he comes up with than they have been with Obama.

2/11/2016 10:14:35 PM

might wanna look into the voting demographics by party before lobbing that grenade

or even between Obama the last two elections vs. Trump supporters now

hell, you could even watch that Triumph The Insult Comic Dog Election Special if you don't feel like reading

2/11/2016 10:23:52 PM

Quote :

"because I guarantee you this congress will be more against any policy he comes up with than they have been with Obama."

"this congress" is leaving with obama

2/11/2016 10:42:15 PM

lol no it's not. the gerrymandering that has been done since republicans seized state legislatures has made it so that even if every single toss-up seat went to a democrat, they would still need to win 3 republican seats to have a majority. congress will be decidedly republican for at least another 4 years, unless the supreme court intervenes in redistricting nation-wide like it will in North Carolina

bernie got crushed last night. the only thing that is keeping him afloat is his ability to operate in a make-believe world, unconstrained by the reality of politics.

[Edited on February 12, 2016 at 8:58 AM. Reason : .]

2/12/2016 8:47:19 AM

Which will likely cost Hildog the general election (assuming she isn't indicted of course)

2/12/2016 9:35:47 AM

^^focus groups say sanders won, major media says it was a tie

2/12/2016 10:53:18 AM

Erica Garner has a commercial endorsing sanders and it's pretty damn good:
http://www.officialericagarner.com/2016/02/11/erica-garners-commercial-endorsing-bernie-sanders-for-president/

2/12/2016 10:54:21 AM

Quote :

"major media says it was a tie"

no they fucking don't

CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/12/opinions/democratic-debate-reaction-louis/

Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/11/winners-and-losers-from-the-6th-democratic-presidential-debate/?tid=a_inl
and
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/02/12/daily-202-hillary-clinton-won-last-night-s-debate-by-making-it-all-about-barack-obama/56bd2438981b92a22d0c2488/

NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/us/politics/democratic-debate.html?_r=0

Vox
http://www.vox.com/2016/2/11/10976478/pbs-democratic-debate-winners-losers

Boston Globe
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/12/slow-and-steady-won-clinton-debate/IpTG0vSD1lTs4wOpJeTZGK/story.html

More voices via the NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/us/politics/who-won-the-debate.html

Basically, the only people calling it a tossup are Slate (shocker) and Fortune (who still calls it a win for Hilary since anything less than a definitive win for Bernie is a loss for him).

I'd ask you to share links, but given your proclivity for being full of shit and a history of making claims with no facts to back them up, I won't hold my breath.

[Edited on February 12, 2016 at 12:07 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2016 12:05:27 PM

Quote :

"Which will likely cost Hildog the general election (assuming she isn't indicted of course)"

gerrymandering doesn't impact the electoral college

2/12/2016 12:07:11 PM

Who said anything about gerrymandering? The Sanders v Clinton battle is going to cost Clinton the general election because she is going to piss off so many of the Sanders supporters that they will stay home come Election Day. People absolutely hate Hillary, she is incredibly polarizing so if you think she will garner the same type of voter turnout as Obama you are crazy. Even if Sanders wasn't running she probably wouldn't get that sort of voter turnout but with him running and causing a lot of democrat voters to dislike her even more she certainly won't.

2/12/2016 12:26:36 PM

the fact that the Clinton Foundation was subpoenad and the FBI has officially announced they are investigating her will hurt in the general. Sanders polls better against republican candidates than clinton and would receive much more support than her. Democratic turnout for Clinton would be low and Republicans may even stand a chance with whatever joke of a candidate they chose.

2/12/2016 12:46:56 PM

Quote :

"Who said anything about gerrymandering?"

i thought that's what you were referring to in your prior post

2/12/2016 1:54:19 PM

Quote :

"Sanders polls better against republican candidates than clinton and would receive much more support than her. Democratic turnout for Clinton would be low"

no fucking wonder you love bernie so much. you both speak in nothing but empty proclamations and platitudes. every single time you're pressed on backing up claims with data, you fall silent until your next round of shitposting

[Edited on February 12, 2016 at 1:57 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2016 1:57:00 PM

^^ Ah, I was continuing your last thought

[Edited on February 12, 2016 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ^]

2/12/2016 1:57:07 PM

got ya, my bad

2/12/2016 1:57:37 PM

Do you feel that Hillary Clinton would elicit higher voter turnout than Bernie Sanders?

2/12/2016 2:13:28 PM

Quote :

"no fucking wonder you love bernie so much. you both speak in nothing but empty proclamations and platitudes. every single time you're pressed on backing up claims with data, you fall silent until your next round of shitposting "

1) why are you so angry about this?
2)
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html
Trump v Clinton - Clinton +4.7
Trump v Sanders - Sanders +9.7
Cruz v Clinton - Cruz +0.2
Cruz v Sanders - Sanders +3
Rubio v Clinton - Rubio +4.2
Rubio v Sanders - Rubio +1

People don't like Clinton. Sanders has a 38% unfavorable/ 50% favorable compared to Clinton's 53% unfavorable to 42% favorable. As the FBI investigation continue's, Clinton's unfavorability will increase and and Sanders gets more exposure his favorability will increase.

In 2008 Clinton still had a safe lead up until about this same point and we are seeing a similar trend this time. The grassroots machine that Obama used to build support was smaller than the grassroots campaign Sanders has built; by this time in the campaign Obama had about 1 million donors, Sanders has over 3.5 million.

2/12/2016 2:30:30 PM

Quote :

"The Sanders v Clinton battle is going to cost Clinton the general election because she is going to piss off so many of the Sanders supporters that they will stay home come Election Day. People absolutely hate Hillary, she is incredibly polarizing so if you think she will garner the same type of voter turnout as Obama you are crazy. Even if Sanders wasn't running she probably wouldn't get that sort of voter turnout but with him running and causing a lot of democrat voters to dislike her even more she certainly won't."

Given the choice between Hillary and Trump or Cruz, I can assure you that even Democrats who can't stand her will still cast their votes for her instead of abstaining, or voting for either of them. She may be a scumbag politician, but she's not anywhere near as repugnant as Trump or Cruz. Not even close.

[Edited on February 12, 2016 at 2:39 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2016 2:38:37 PM

Actually, Bernie Sanders has received more than 3.5 million contributions from more than 1.3 million contributors; I'm not sure how many contributions from contributors President Obama had received at this same point in the 2008 primary process.

2/12/2016 2:40:26 PM

sorry, yeah both of those were individual donations

2/12/2016 2:45:10 PM

^^^ you are delusional if you think that the shit Clinton has been flinging towards Sanders supporters won't have an impact in the general election

Sure some Sanders supporters will still vote for her but more will abstain than if she ran unopposed

2/12/2016 2:49:20 PM

I watched the debate last night in order to be fair and look at all candidates in both parties. Ill admit I liked the fact this wasn't all terrorists immigration terrorists immigration FUCK OBAMA like the republican debates have been. Having to only listen to two people debate lets you focus more on what each is saying. The problem I had was Bernie says a lot of great things but its extremely hard to believe all of this hopes are even close to realistic. Hillary sounds so ingenuous and just like a politician saying everything she has to not to piss anyone off as best she can. She just seems so fake its hard to take her seriously. None of the candidates from either party really stand out maybe we should just let Bernie attempt to get his grand ideas done and see what happens who knows.

2/12/2016 4:01:29 PM

Bernie doesn't need to accomplish his ideas, we are still better of if only small changes are made

2/13/2016 8:11:40 AM

Quote :

"Tell me about it. That's what got us our current POTUS. Look, regardless of what Bernie thinks he can do for us, and hey, I'm all about forgiving my student debt, once he gets in the oval office, Washington will remain gridlocked, because I guarantee you this congress will be more against any policy he comes up with than they have been with Obama."

Why should the tax payers and government have to do that for you? You took on the debt, so you should pay for it. If you didn't want the debt then you should have joined the military, worked at UPS, went to community college, or attended once you saved enough money. The government can't afford to pay off debt. They already have enough things to pay for.

[Edited on February 13, 2016 at 11:37 AM. Reason : .]

2/13/2016 11:34:41 AM

2/14/2016 4:40:50 PM

^^ as far as I know, he isn't proposing any kind of large scale debt forgiveness, he is proposing solutions to prevent the need for future students to take on that kind of large debt and plans to lower interest rates:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/

2/14/2016 5:10:48 PM

^My comment was in response to the other comment. I do agree something needs to be done to reduce the costs of college.

2/14/2016 10:00:29 PM

Quote :

"^^ as far as I know, he isn't proposing any kind of large scale debt forgiveness, he is proposing solutions to prevent the need for future students to take on that kind of large debt and plans to lower interest rates: https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/"

Complete madness.

First of all, how does lowering interest rates prevent the need to take out debt? That's going to encourage more debt. That is the function of interest rates.

Second, in-state tuition at public universities isn't really the problem. I went to NCSU on pure student loans and had it paid off in about 3 years, and that was with a degree that wasn't even all that valuable on paper.

When you hear about people with insurmountable debt, e.g. 100k+, that's primarily private schools and out-of-state tuition. Does Bernie intend to make private school free too? Are we going to fully subsidize someone's Duke education? Probably not.

So the problem is still there: an 18 year old can get as much debt as they can sign for, and no way to discharge it. Why would a university lower their tuition, or even keep their tuition the same? Why wouldn't they raise it every year? They know the students will be able to pay for it with debt.

Sanders is a classic example of failing to recognize root problems, instead offering lofty, debt-fueled solutions. And don't even start with this "he's going to fund it with higher taxes on the rich". Yeah, maybe at first. When the rich flight starts, I promise it will be the middle class footing the bill. Nothing costs as much as free.

2/14/2016 10:18:20 PM

Quote :

"Jimmies: Rustled"

2/14/2016 10:43:32 PM

^Exactly! It won't become free. It is up to students and their parents to make smarter choices. My brother in law went to NC State for 4 years and so did my sister. Then they got married, he went to grad school at Harvard, they moved back, he found a job, they bought a house, they had two kids, my sister became a stay at home mom, and they bought a mini van after someone rear ended my sister's old vehicle. Most of this happened post 2010 and now they are down to only having a house payment. Of course they had degrees that got them high paying jobs, but they were also smart with their money. They went without cable tv for about 2, or 3 years and used any extra money they had to help pay off loans.

It's all about making smart choices.

2/14/2016 10:46:29 PM

You cant expect everyone to make smart choices or else they wouldnt be smart choices they would just be obvious choices now wouldn't they

2/14/2016 11:02:03 PM

Average people make average choices. That's fine, but you don't want to have a system that incentivizes bad choices. Unlimited low interest student loans is a good way to get really expensive higher education.

My guess is that in a pure market-based higher education system, you would still have student loans. The difference is that the lenders would have more more reason to validate their loans. As it stands today, it doesn't matter how well the borrower does or doesn't do post graduation, they still have to pay back the money. From a lender standpoint, loaning money is practically zero risk. There is very little chance, currently, of your borrower going bankrupt and discharging the debt. What would anyone reasonable person do when presented with a zero risk, medium return investment? You'd put as much money as you could into it.

In practice, this means that you can get as much money as you want to study anything you want. I imagine that some people think this is a good thing. I don't think it's a sustainable system. There are way too many people getting degrees that have little or no application outside of an academic setting. Academia isn't able to absorb these people.

So what do they do? They complain about being a lost generation that can't succeed no matter what they do, and they're Sanders' core voters. You don't hear Sanders talking about the real, substantive, proven problems with student loans that I talk about above. Why? Because that would require grappling with the reality that the problem is pretty complex instead of papering over it with free money.

2/14/2016 11:36:02 PM

^ not that you aren't making some reasonable points, but your undertone is that corporations should be the ones deciding which college programs even get to exist... You don't see how abjectly dangerous and harmful this would be? Even if this isn't your goal, this is the end result of the system you seem to think is better.

If someone can make the grades and pass the tests in high school, and these people can't afford college, this is a problem for a society. It sets us back. The solution isn't to accept that they must be priced out of college, it's making sure resources are allocated to handle this demand.

We're starting to see enrollment stall already because of costs and returns, and this trend will accelerate as automation makes certifications and online programs like Udacity be "good enough".

The real question is what is the effect of this on society and how does this affect Americas competitiveness and standard of living.

2/14/2016 11:53:25 PM

Quote :

"Sanders is a classic example of failing to recognize root problems, instead offering lofty, debt-fueled solutions. And don't even start with this 'he's going to fund it with higher taxes on the rich'. Yeah, maybe at first. When the rich flight starts, I promise it will be the middle class footing the bill. Nothing costs as much as free."

Could you go into further detail regarding the rich flight that will occur?

2/15/2016 12:26:05 AM

Quote :

"have little or no application outside of an academic setting. Academia isn't able to absorb these people. "

Remember when it was conservative capitalists that valued liberal, well rounded educations and it was the communists and socialists that felt people only needed work related educations?

Yea me neither, because that was well before our time, but that was a common theme not that long ago.

Looking at The details of Bernie's plan I don't think it's exactly how I would do it, but I do love that he is hammering the issue, we need a lot more dialog here.

2/15/2016 8:07:00 AM

problem with loans is that you can't bankrupt out. change that, and no one will be able to get loans. problem solved

2/15/2016 9:14:44 AM