God fuck Dave right in the ass, I didn't like this Midwestern , suburban, tract neighborhood douche from the beginning. Hes such a basic bitch.

11/1/2016 11:39:03 PM

Now THAT'S what I call "Building a Coalition." (tm)

11/2/2016 1:05:41 AM

Sorry about that one, I was feeling really emotional last night.

I wish DD only the best. Seems like a nice enough dude.

11/2/2016 8:27:05 AM

^That's the thing I am pretty sure all of us wanted him to succeed. He seemed like a great candidate.

If he has lost the locker room, this is going to get really ugly. Like 3-9 Chuck losing to ECU with more of their fans than ours in CF ugly.

11/2/2016 9:22:09 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrD7DbFSr0Y

11/2/2016 9:36:28 AM

I seriously dont like this man.

11/2/2016 10:00:04 AM

The guy is clearly not a leader, so 'losing the locker room' was inevitable.

11/2/2016 12:38:40 PM

Keep NOT seeing where he's been fired after continuously checking headlines. Still wondering why. Regardless, he will be gone by the end of the season.

11/2/2016 12:47:47 PM

unfortunately, he's not going anywhere. chill out brahs

11/2/2016 12:50:02 PM

I would be confident placing a wager on his departure by season's end.

11/2/2016 2:11:29 PM

DD just doesn't have the personality to recruit and win in the south. His vanilla/bland personality will do fine back in the Midwest, but he will never be able to recruit with a Dabo or Butch Jones or even old fake ass Fedora. DD is a good person and will be a good coordinator somewhere back in the Big Ten or something.




[Edited on November 2, 2016 at 4:55 PM. Reason : sd]

11/2/2016 4:54:51 PM

If he beats either UNC or FSU or beats Syracuse+Miami I bet he'll get another year.

11/2/2016 5:33:35 PM

Wont win another game.

11/2/2016 5:56:18 PM

really don't think he's going anywhere this year no matter what. y'all getting your hopes up here.

11/2/2016 6:49:06 PM

This man couldn't coach himself out of wet paper bag with a lighter and a barrell of nitroglycerin.

11/2/2016 6:53:34 PM

How much is his buyout?

11/2/2016 7:04:13 PM

Quote :

"Keep NOT seeing where he's been fired after continuously checking headlines. Still wondering why. Regardless, he will be gone by the end of the season."

I look several times a day just for that headline...& I am surprised each time I don't see it.

He's below average.

11/2/2016 7:05:56 PM

^^Think I read on twitter it was around $2MM. Not as steep as some would make you think.

11/2/2016 10:12:57 PM

Can't we wait till the end of the season?

11/2/2016 10:40:09 PM

Let's say we hold onto him and Chip Kelly gets fired...

realistically I say we make that happen. His college system is legit.

_______


Best bet is Todd Grantham. 3-4 DC, has ties to SEC as well as the state of Virginia.

[Edited on November 2, 2016 at 10:49 PM. Reason : f]

11/2/2016 10:43:16 PM

Quote :

" I don't understand your fascination with this guy."

I'm fascinated with him because he is the coach at my alma mater. I want my alma mater to succeed therefore I want him to have a chance to succeed. Its as simple as that. If he was at any other school, i wouldn't give a shit.

Quote :

"He'll never be able to recruit worth a damn because his personality is bland and boring,"

He's already brougth it two really good classes and many of the players have turned out better than advertised so he appears to have a good eye for talent.

Quote :

" and he doesnt know how to use his best players"

I could've sworn brisset, dayes, and samuels had been tearing it up the last few years...

Quote :

"wait until next year when we are losing to Wake too. "

What makes you believe we will lose to wake? Our talent gap over them is only growing. Sure, we could lose to anyone, but the notion that we will likely lose to wake is absurd.

Quote :

" he isn't a good in game coach"

he has his strengths and weaknesses like any other coach. Its all relative. He has clearly outcoached Jimbo and Dabo on multiple occasions so that is a good sign.

Quote :

"Every team deals with injuries"

How many teams lost their top 3 players at a single position like we did at wr this year.

How many teams lost their top 2 players at a single position like we did at rb last year?


Please tell me how every team then proceeds to lose specifically because of rare mistakes made by the backups who were forced into action. Sure there are probably programs who could lose 3 wrs and still have more who can line up correctly and run the correct route, but its certainly not common especially when you are already short an entire class because it is the 4th year of your program.

11/2/2016 10:52:25 PM

I have to say, E man made some really good points here.

Maybe DD isn't so bad?

11/2/2016 11:24:44 PM

Lol

11/2/2016 11:35:39 PM

look at Gottfried's talent gap over Wake bball.

how many other teams lost their top 4 scorers (Wood, Zo, CJ, Howell?)

etc


[Edited on November 2, 2016 at 11:36 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2016 11:35:54 PM

fwiw i never thought we should fire gott yet. ( as synapse exposed i said it in the heat of the moment one line posts during games 4 years ago)

if you look at my long, well thought out basketball posts, i said he got a free pass for last season several months before the season started and that this year would be a big judgement year for him.

Gottfried
year 1 was meh with lowe's players (disregarded completely)
year 2 was awful but was a mix with lowes players
year 3 was meh
year 4 was meh but we looked great for the last month or so
year 5 was unacceptable

Doeren
Year 1 was awful with tobs players (disregarded completely)
Year 2 was meh
Year 3 was meh
year 4 is only 2/3rds of the way finished.

11/2/2016 11:45:30 PM

has Doeren ever made a top-8 bowl game? i bet if he had, it would be more than "meh"

oh yeah, you think winning season openers are just as important as winning postseason games, body of work and all that

[Edited on November 2, 2016 at 11:49 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2016 11:48:59 PM

Quote :

"How many teams lost their top 3 players at a single position like we did at wr this year. How many teams lost their top 2 players at a single position like we did at rb last year?"

Lol at you magnifying JuMichael Ramos injury that much. Not like a stud freshmen emerged oh wait Harmon did.

Baylor beat UNC in a bowl last year with a fucking wide receiver playing QB. STFU

11/2/2016 11:50:49 PM

LOL at the idea that Doeren has out coached Dabo and Jimbo multiple times. Below are the scores between NC State and FSU/Clemson:

2013 - Clemson: 26-14, FSU: 49-17
2014 - Clemson: 41-0, FSU: 56-41
2015 - Clemson: 56-41, FSU: 34-17
2016 - Clemson: 24-17, FSU: yet to be played

Only 2016 Clemson was within one score. Our average margin of defeat was 19 points. FSU looks weak this year so we'll probably play them close, but has Doeren out coached Dabo and Jimbo multiple times? nah.

Also LOL at the idea that Gottfried and Doeren have provided comparable results over their tenures. Gottfried has a better overall record/ACC record and has taken State further in the postseason (two sweet sixteen appearances and 4 NCAA tournament appearances). Occasionally we lose to shit teams but we also compete/beat legit teams at a much greater rate than with Doeren.

[Edited on November 3, 2016 at 8:44 AM. Reason : .]

11/3/2016 8:36:33 AM

Yeaaa DD and Gott's resume's are not even close.

11/3/2016 9:27:16 AM

Quote :

"Gottfried year 1 was meh with lowe's players (disregarded completely) year 2 was awful but was a mix with lowes players year 3 was meh year 4 was meh but we looked great for the last month or so year 5 was unacceptable"

For somebody for whom "basketball is their life" you sure are critical of Gott. Even more interesting that you're a Doeren apologist at the same time when he hasn't done shit here.

Let's recap:

5 years before Gott - never make NCAA, never finish higher than 9th in ACC

Year 1 (2011) - we make the NCAA for the first time since 2005-2006 and finish 4th in the ACC. beat #3 Georgetown and narrowly lost to #2 and NCAA Runner Up Kansas. this is also Gott's first year. I'd say that was pretty impressive no matter whose players they were (Lowe didn't do shit with them).

Year 2 (2012) - make NCAA second year in a row. finish 4th in the ACC again. disappointing loss to Temple in the tournament but an overall good season.

Year 3 (2013) - make NCAA third year in a row. win play-in game vs a good Xavier squad. blow a big lead to lose to otherwise red hot St. Louis. Finish 7th in the ACC. disappointing, but still relevant.

Year 4 (2014) - make NCAA fourth year in a row, 6th in the ACC. squarely make the NCAA tournament beating LSU and upsetting #1 Villanova (end up winning it all next year). get in foul trouble and lose to a tough Louisville squad (that would also be charged with program violations later) in the Sweet 16. Herb made one S16 in 10 years. Gott had now made two in 4 years. Pretty impressive season.

Year 5 (2015) - our top 2 scorers both declare for the NBA instead of returning for their senior season. our primary SG graduates and we lose our starting shooting guard 5 minutes into the first game. we lack depth in several key areas, and lose playing time due to injury throughout the season. shit happens.

Year 6 (2016) - Gott pulls a top 5 recruiting class seemingly out of thin air and the hype train comes back to Raleigh. Choo choo motherfuckers.

11/3/2016 9:42:07 AM

Quote :

"could've sworn brisset, dayes, and samuels had been tearing it up the last few years..."

How many times did samuels touch the ball Saturday?

11/3/2016 9:42:35 AM

Y'all deserve to be trolled

11/3/2016 10:58:59 AM

I'm not trying to be disrespectful or mean here, but when we lose out, this E fellow will still be defending him, simply because this E fellow is irrational. It's pretty clear he doesn't think the same way most people do. Furthermore, E fellow, as well as Doeren, constantly have a system of fault and blame that doesn't include Doeren's coaching ability. Bottom line is leaders don't do things like that.

11/3/2016 11:44:21 AM

maybe Doeren should, like E fellow, go coach middle school girls in basketball.

11/3/2016 12:09:20 PM

Quote :

"you sure are critical of Gott. Even more interesting that you're a Doeren apologist at the same time when he hasn't done shit here. "

Are you new here? That's Earl's schtick.

[Edited on November 3, 2016 at 12:12 PM. Reason : Also First Rule of Sports Talk ]

11/3/2016 12:12:09 PM

Quote :

"top 2 scorers both declare for the NBA instead of returning for their senior season."

Our top 2 scorers left but Turner was a Sr, only Lacey missed Sr year.

11/3/2016 12:45:27 PM

This E fellow is like a terrible public defender trying to acquit a guy where we all witnessed his crime. He won't give up either. Maybe in some twisted Jimmy V interpretation or something.

11/3/2016 12:55:16 PM

I guess I'll be an E defender as much as I hate to say it. I can't fault a guy for using a measured approach to evaluate a coach and for waiting until the end of the year to do the analysis. That said, his evaluations can be absolute crap and totally undermine some good points.

Half the folks here will tout that they knew DD was trash after his second game, blah blah blah. I know I'm a bit old fashioned in my beliefs, but every coaching hire should have 4 years minimum to make an impact. DD is in year 4. If he can't finish .500 in ACC play, I'll jump on the train and say that he needs to go.

TWW should give Yow a resume about how the collective group will be able to bring the Wolfpack to the promised land. I know we're all convinced we can do a better job of coaching. Let's just hire some folks to do the training and then we'll call the plays on Saturdays.

11/3/2016 1:39:29 PM

I thought Doeren might be a shitty coach after he led us to an 0-8 conference record his first season. That's something that had never been done in the 100+ year history of our football program.

11/3/2016 1:55:43 PM

Evaluating his coaching abilities and drawing a definite conclusion would be a little looney before now, but the writing has been on the wall since the ECU game. No one rational expected overnight success for a multitude of reasons but look where we are now. I'm only a casual football fan in general but when your coach will not accept responsibility for poor performance of his players he's simply not a leader.

Also, im relatively confident we will lose out at this point.

11/3/2016 1:57:59 PM

Quote :

"Lol at you magnifying JuMichael Ramos injury that much. Not like a stud freshmen emerged oh wait Harmon did. Baylor beat UNC in a bowl last year with a fucking wide receiver playing QB. STFU"

You play more than 1 wr at a time and we have been left with wrs who cannot line up correctly or run the right route. If either of those things happen, we beat BC. They aren't big asks so its easy to see that the injuries at wr were the direct cause of that backbreaking loss.

The fact that you are comparing us to a high-level program like Baylor is part of the problem.

Quote :

"has Doeren ever made a top-8 bowl game? i bet if he had, it would be more than "meh""

You're damn right it would. It would also be great if we got a top 4 seed in basketball. (I think 8 was our highest?)

Quote :

"LOL at the idea that Doeren has out coached Dabo and Jimbo multiple times. Below are the scores between NC State and FSU/Clemson: 2013 - Clemson: 26-14, FSU: 49-17 2014 - Clemson: 41-0, FSU: 56-41 2015 - Clemson: 56-41, FSU: 34-17 2016 - Clemson: 24-17, FSU: yet to be played Only 2016 Clemson was within one score. Our average margin of defeat was 19 points. FSU looks weak this year so we'll probably play them close, but has Doeren out coached Dabo and Jimbo multiple times? nah."

I said he outcoached them not kept the score close. The team clearly came out and executed a gameplan while being completely outmatched in terms of talent. 2013 clemson , 2014 florida state, 2015 clemson , and 2016 clemson were all games where despite a significant talent disadvantage we hit them in the face and really put fear in their hearts. Those are some of the toughest games those teams faced each year. Only Alabama has pushed clemson more than us and they clearly have much more talent than clemson.

Quote :

"Also LOL at the idea that Gottfried and Doeren have provided comparable results over their tenures. Gottfried has a better overall record/ACC record and has taken State further in the postseason"

The fact that you are comparing them on the same level is the essence of the problem. We have two championships in basketball and had top 15 talent when Gottfried arrived. Of course he is doing better. In football, we are a nothing school, in a horrible location, and had top 70 talent when Doeren arrived. Its apples an oranges to compare records. I'm comparing performance relative to talent-based expectations. Its also important to realize the importance of sample size. Using single game outliers like BC and Villanova is not going to be truly indicitive of a coaches performance but more indicitive of the variable nature of young kids.

Quote :

"5 years before Gott - never make NCAA, never finish higher than 9th in ACC"

Lowe being awful doesn't make Gott good in the same way that previous football coaches squandering pro-bowl qbs doesn't make Doeren bad.

Quote :

"Year 1 (2011) - we make the NCAA for the first time since 2005-2006 and finish 4th in the ACC. beat #3 Georgetown and narrowly lost to #2 and NCAA Runner Up Kansas. this is also Gott's first year. I'd say that was pretty impressive no matter whose players they were (Lowe didn't do shit with them)."

Well you could look at it that way or you could disregard it. If you look at it your way, then it makes 2012's regression look like a complete failure. I rather just not hold him accountable for what happened with someone else players because if I do, then those results with top 10 talent would look pretty damning...I'm giving gottfried the benefit of the doubt with these lowe players.

Quote :

"disappointing loss to Temple in the tournament but an overall good season. "

This statement tells me that you are ignoring talent and only looking at results compared to each other. I'm basing everything off of talent so it makes sense that I would be easier than you on a coach who started with low talent and tougher on a coach who started with high talent. Can't we agree to disagree here?

Your expectations are clearly low if you think that was a good season. The difference between predictions and results was bigger than anything we've seen in basketball or football.

Quote :

"Year 2 (2012) - make NCAA second year in a row. finish 4th in the ACC again."

*5th in the acc. please don't lie. we have never been top 4 in the new acc

Quote :

"blow a big lead to lose to otherwise red hot St. Louis. Finish 7th in the ACC. disappointing, but still relevant. "

how many nba players on that team?

Quote :

"2014...Pretty impressive season. "

we had the best player on the court in every game and went .500 and that was impressive?

Quote :

" our top 2 scorers both declare for the NBA instead of returning for their senior season."

Attrition has been pretty consistent over his tenure so you can no longer talk about it as a case of bad fortune. Its something he owns now and probably my biggest criticism.

Quote :

"we lack depth in several key areas, and lose playing time due to injury throughout the season. shit happens. "

I generally agree with this on the 2015 basketball season and even stated it preemptively but the real question is:

Why can "shit happen" in basketball but not football?

Quote :

"Year 6 (2016) - Gott pulls a top 5 recruiting class seemingly out of thin air and the hype train comes back to Raleigh. Choo choo motherfuckers."

so you going to be impressed when we take this elite talent and go .500 middle of the road in conference play, get an 8 seed, and pull one upset over a team with slightly more talent to make the sweet 16?


So in summary:

You think we should be slightly above average regardless of talent

I think we should determine our expectations relative to our team's talent level.

Agree to disagree?

Quote :

"this E fellow will still be defending him"

I'm not defending him now though. I'm just saying he should be given a chance to fail or succeed before we talk about firing him.

Quote :

"It's pretty clear he doesn't think the same way most people do. "

TBH most people don't know what its like to coach and just want their team to win. I don't have a great understanding of football but I have personal relationships with multiple college basketball coaches and have much more of a coach's perspective than most people. Its not me trying to say I am better or smarter than anyone but its just not something most people have put time into.

Quote :

"constantly have a system of fault and blame that doesn't include Doeren's coaching ability."

thats just a lie. I don't think doeren has done anything to stay here, I just think its premature of the time to fire him. You are creating all of these false dichotomy's like if I don't think we should fire a coach immediately, that I somehow don't see flaws in his coaching ability.

If I was so irrational, then the AD would have thought like you guys and fired doeren already. So is the AD irrational also? Are the people on message boards the only rational decision makers?

11/3/2016 2:10:04 PM

There's no denying that an early warning sign was those you = baller recruitment letters, as well. These people shouldn't have given the perception that they were a recruit's peers. Coaches are here to develop players;improve their skills, teach teamwork, maximize their talent etc. when you're touting some bullshit recruiting strategy like that you're just asking for people with discipline problems. Wonder how that worked out for us...

11/3/2016 2:10:26 PM

Quote :

"how many nba players on that team?"

Is this a trick question? 1?

Quote :

"we had the best player on the court in every game and went .500 and that was impressive? "

Duke had two top 10 picks. 4 other acc schools had at least 1 first round pick.

Too bad the best player in the acc couldn't get drafted or make ACC first team

Quote :

"We have two championships in basketball and had top 15 talent when Gottfried arrived."

Quote :

"do, then those results with top 10 talent would look pretty damning."

First, which is it, second, lol at your made up talent rankings. Only one player from that team is even close to nba talent

[Edited on November 3, 2016 at 2:27 PM. Reason : Rrrrr]

11/3/2016 2:17:23 PM

that was referring to st louis

11/3/2016 2:21:49 PM

Gotta admit, watching Earl defend DD is so much more entertaining than the shit product DD puts on the field

Quote :

"Only Alabama has pushed clemson more than us..."

[Edited on November 3, 2016 at 3:06 PM. Reason : ]

11/3/2016 2:53:22 PM

Your previous post is filled with so many false equivalents and hypocrisy its not worth arguing over.

At the end of the day, if I were our AD, I wouldn't fire him unless the wheels come off and we lose each of our remaining games by multiple TD's, so in that sense I agree with you. But I don't understand why you have been so passionate in defending DD.

[Edited on November 3, 2016 at 4:48 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2016 4:44:50 PM

Haha I'd rather see TWW debate E Man all day than squabble with Jibbles.

Quote :

"*5th in the acc. please don't lie. we have never been top 4 in the new acc"

Wiki has us at T-4 for two seasons - that's what I based it off of. If that's wrong then edit it I guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Gottfried

As far as your other posts where the general sentiment is talent and expectations I'll just say that Gottfried resurrected our program from six shameful seasons and immediately got us back in the dance. In the grand scheme of things does making the NCAAT or a couple of S16s make us elite? Certainly not, but at least we're somewhat relevant and at or above the level we were at when Herb was here. Also I'm not saying we should crown him king of basketball either - he clearly needs to improve defense and other areas and hopefully his new assistants will help with that.

Gott hasn't done bad talent-wise either.

247 Rankings:

2016 - 4
2015 - 61
2014 - 18
2013 - 10
2012 - 11 (scout has us at 5 for this class)

20.8 average.

Top 25 talent isn't anything to snub your nose at. Really the 2015 outlier makes it look worse than it is because we thought we'd be returning Lacey and Washington and it still isn't bad.

[Edited on November 3, 2016 at 5:20 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2016 5:20:15 PM

Wrong thread.

DD needs to be fired.

Just look at the difference between UL's use of one minute in the game last week vs ours against Clemson.

11/3/2016 8:10:25 PM

^can anybody figure out what I have to say about that post?

11/4/2016 12:06:22 AM

I've been busy today and haven't checked twatter. Is this guy still the NC State head football coach?

11/4/2016 12:20:35 AM