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 Message Boards » » The Abortion Issue Page 1 ... 50 51 52 53 [54] 55, Prev Next  
thegoodlife3
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also, Planned Parenthood has been saving black lives for decades

6/4/2020 2:33:38 PM

HCH
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Lol. Police departments have been saving black lives for decades!!!

If you aren't serious about looking at the systemic racism in Planned Parenthood, then you aren't serious about systemic racism. It might sting your long conceived notions at first, but it is most certainly there.

6/4/2020 3:02:37 PM

daaave
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^^

6/4/2020 3:03:14 PM

HCH
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^^

6/4/2020 3:06:34 PM

thegoodlife3
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show your work, Dan Forest

6/4/2020 3:09:22 PM

Bullet
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I'm genuinely curious. HCH, can you explain the systematic racismin PP? (Seri isn't providing much help)

6/4/2020 3:31:21 PM

HCH
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Bullet, I am impressed that you actually responded in a civil manner instead of just calling me a boot licker. Maybe we are all growing. I will be happy to provide some of the systemic racist issues within PP.

Aside from their clearly racist beginnings, Margaret Sanger thought Jews, Orientals and Blacks were inferior races and needed to be eliminated like human weeds. PP kills more black babies than the other top 5 causes of death by a factor of 3! All other races do not even come close to that number.

Additionally, PP targets minority neighborhoods. 79% of PP abortion facilities are located in minority neighborhoods, while only 21% of their abortion facilities are located in other neighborhoods.

I mean, if I told you that about any other institution that sought to do harm to Blacks, we would be tearing them down now.

[Edited on June 4, 2020 at 3:57 PM. Reason : is that not the correct spelling of Serri? Seri? IDK]

6/4/2020 3:55:46 PM

thegoodlife3
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how many times do you have to be told that Planned Parenthood provides vital healthcare/service to underserved communities and that a majority of their health services have nothing to do with abortion?

6/4/2020 4:04:22 PM

Cabbage
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I'm sure others here are more knowledgeable than I, but I'll contribute a bit:

Quote :
"Aside from their clearly racist beginnings, Margaret Sanger thought Jews, Orientals and Blacks were inferior races and needed to be eliminated like human weeds. PP kills more black babies than the other top 5 causes of death by a factor of 3! All other races do not even come close to that number. "


A response:

Quote :
"One such phrase is currently being shared on social media. A post alongside an image of Sanger claims that in 1922 she said the following: "Slav, Latin and Hebrew immigrants are human weeds...a deadweight of human waste. Blacks, soldiers and Jews are a menace to race."

The post was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed. (Read more about our partnership with Facebook.)

We could not locate any record of Margaret Sanger ever saying that, though it appears to have circulated on social media since approximately July 2015, as other fact-checkers have noted.

We did find an April 1923 New York Times article in which she said the word "weeds," but she didn’t link it to any race or ethnicity:

"I was merely thinking of the poor mothers of congested districts of the East Side who had so poignantly begged me for relief, in order that the children they had already brought into the world might have a chance to grow into strong and stalwart Americans . . . Birth Control is not contraception indiscriminately and thoughtlessly practiced. It means the release and cultivation of the better racial elements in our society, and the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extirpation of defective stocks — those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization."

While Sanger has been routinely criticized for supporting eugenics—the belief of improving the population by controlled breeding for desirable characteristics—historians and scholars who have studied Sanger’s life challenge the idea that she was racist, and say her opinions concerned public health, not race."


https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jan/25/viral-image/no-margaret-sanger-never-said-slav-latin-and-hebre/

Quote :
"Additionally, PP targets minority neighborhoods. 79% of PP abortion facilities are located in minority neighborhoods, while only 21% of their abortion facilities are located in other neighborhoods."


I believe PP's mission is (at least in part) to serve the underprivileged. In light of this, I think you are confusing correlation and causation--minority neighborhoods are strongly correlated with being underprivileged. Also, I'm not even sure your numbers are accurate; I found this:

Quote :
"In 2014, the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research center, surveyed all known abortion providers, including Planned Parenthood clinics, in the U.S. (nearly 2,000) and found that 60 percent are in majority-white neighborhoods.

Planned Parenthood has not released numbers on the neighborhoods of its specific clinics, but responding to a request for demographic information, the organization said that in 2013, 14 percent of its patients nationwide were black. That's nearly equal to the proportion of the African-American population in the U.S."



Finally, I've always thought it's rather fundamentally important to note that there is no compulsion involved. To hear some propagandists tell it, you'd think that PP actually compels black people to have abortions. I do hope you're not so indoctrinated that you're unable to recognize that as bullshit.

Oh, and I believe it's "Siri".

6/4/2020 4:10:10 PM

HCH
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^^Thanks for proving my point. You are clearly unserious about looking at systemic racism in any way that may be uncomfortable to you.

[Edited on June 4, 2020 at 4:11 PM. Reason : 1]

6/4/2020 4:10:55 PM

HCH
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Sanger's racist statements and statements on eugenics are pretty well documented. But I don't want to go back in forth over what someone said 100 years ago, because institutions change, right?

Quote :
"I believe PP's mission is (at least in part) to serve the underprivileged. In light of this, I think you are confusing correlation and causation--minority neighborhoods are strongly correlated with being underprivileged. Also, I'm not even sure your numbers are accurate; I found this:"
I found your problem, you are looking at just PP clinics. I was reporting PP abortion facilities, where they actually target the murder of black babies. An institutions purpose doesn't absolve it from seemingly overt racist activities.

Quote :
"Finally, I've always thought it's rather fundamentally important to note that there is no compulsion involved."
Tell that to the dead black babies.

6/4/2020 4:22:27 PM

Bullet
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Dude, a fetus isn't a "black baby". It's impossible to have a conversation with a pro-life person when they can't understand that.

6/4/2020 4:34:51 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"Sanger's racist statements and statements on eugenics are pretty well documented."


And yet you are not documenting them here, unlike me--I'm actually supplying documentation. Care to try it yourself?

Quote :
"I found your problem, you are looking at just PP clinics. I was reporting PP abortion facilities, where they actually target the murder of black babies. An institutions purpose doesn't absolve it from seemingly overt racist activities."


Totally irrelevant to my main point, which was that PP serves underprivileged communities.

Quote :
"Tell that to the dead black babies."


Totally irrelevant to my point that it was the mother that chose to abort, not PP.

6/4/2020 4:35:15 PM

HCH
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Don't be a science denier, Bullet. Listen, regardless of how you feel about abortion, you have to consider PP's activities and focus on the black community if you want to look at all systemic racism. The police focus on underprivileged communities, does that absolve them of any racism?

Quote :
" PP serves underprivileged communities."
A lot of racist institutions "serve" underprivileged communities.

Quote :
"Totally irrelevant to my point that it was the mother that chose to abort, not PP. "
Not at all irrelevant.

6/4/2020 4:52:01 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"A lot of racist institutions "serve" underprivileged communities."


A lot of nonracist institutions do, too. Try actually constructing an argument for a change, not meaningless bullshit platitudes. MMKay?

Quote :
"Not at all irrelevant."


Bullshit. It's absolutely relevant to point out that mothers are choosing to have abortions. At no point is PP compelling them to do so.

I guess we can give up on you trying to provide any "documentation" of Sanger's racism, huh.

LOL

6/4/2020 5:03:31 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" PP kills more black babies than the other top 5 causes of death by a factor of 3! All other races do not even come close to that number. "


show your work

6/4/2020 5:08:48 PM

Cabbage
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^I get the distinct impression that HCH just doesn't provide documentation. He's the sort that just believes whatever his tribe tells him to believe.

6/4/2020 5:15:35 PM

thegoodlife3
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the thing is, he knows that he’s dealing with absolute bullshit that doesn’t hold up to actual facts

he tends to disappear when he can’t back up what he says with legitimate data

he’s a bullshitter who thinks he’s pulling one over on people

6/4/2020 5:19:16 PM

HCH
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Data is not hard to find. Start here.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/ss/ss6713a1.htm

[Edited on June 4, 2020 at 7:47 PM. Reason : PP also publishes all of their data. ]

6/4/2020 7:44:21 PM

Cabbage
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^LOL. I'm not digging through all that to find a completely nonexistent point.

If you think you have a point, make it and back it up.

6/4/2020 8:59:02 PM

HCH
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You need your data spoon fed to you like you need your opinions spoon fed. I stated my claim in the previous page as well as a post above. Keep up.

Quote :
" Listen, regardless of how you feel about abortion, you have to consider PP's activities and focus on the black community if you want to look at all systemic racism."

6/4/2020 10:24:02 PM

Cabbage
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I've debunked your claims already and now you expect me to sift through pages just to prove you're still full of shit and can't form a cogent argument???

Not happening, son. I've done my end; still waiting on you, sparky.

But take every opportunity to hide behind every opportunity for obfuscation that you can think of. That's the only thing you seem to have a talent for, chief.

Put up or shut up. Till then: Just fuck off.

Thanks!

6/4/2020 11:11:54 PM

thegoodlife3
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he can’t back up his claims with data

he’s a perfect example of why there is no difference between pre-Trump Republicans and post-Trump Republicans

6/4/2020 11:18:35 PM

Cabbage
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I will say this: It looks to me like I've already debunked whatever point you think you've made with that Gish Gallop:

Evidently you expect me to think that since the people that get abortions at PP are disproportionately black, you've convinced yourself that makes PP racist.

Of course, this ignores correlations among 1) Those who get abortions, 2) Being black, 3) Being underprivileged, 4) Going to PP.

And so you're making the rookie mistake of confusing correlation with causation, dumbass.

[Edited on June 4, 2020 at 11:19 PM. Reason : ]

6/4/2020 11:19:12 PM

HCH
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The data is all there. If you need it packaged in a nice little article, start here:

Quote :
"Abortion is the leading killer of black lives in America outnumbering the top 15 causes of death—combined. "

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lets-talk-about-the-black-abortion-rate-1531263697

Nearly 61% of all abortions in the state of Georgia kill black babies. Planned Parenthood in Georgia doesn’t offer prenatal care, parenting classes or material assistance for poor mothers, but they do offer plenty of fake health in the form of abortion.

If you can't look at these numbers and at least think, there might be some form of systemic racism here, then you are not serious about solving the systemic race issue.

6/5/2020 1:24:22 PM

Cabbage
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Bullshit. You presented data, but absolutely no argument. Like I said, you're making the rookie mistake of confusing correlation with causation. (Did you actually go to NCSU? If so, maybe you actually deserve a refund).

Try presenting an argument instead of a simple data dump (that doesn't even support your position) and we can talk. Otherwise, fuck off already.

6/5/2020 5:58:41 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"BREAKING: The Supreme Court has not responded to our emergency request to block Texas’ radical new 6-week abortion ban, SB8. The law now takes effect.

Access to almost all abortion has just been cut off for millions of people. The impact will be immediate and devastating."

9/1/2021 6:56:33 AM

GrumpyGOP
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Good question I saw raised on twitter - how long before we see suits being filed against Texas abortion rights advocates for "aiding and abetting" under the new law?

9/1/2021 8:34:09 AM

Pupils DiL8t
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If I understand the Texas law correctly, a person can sue anyone who assists someone with obtaining an abortion, and the plaintiff is awarded $10,000 and recouped for their court costs if they win their suit.

I'm also under the impression that the defendant has to pay their own court costs, whether they win the suit or not.

However, does the plaintiff have to pay their own court costs if they lose the suit, or does the defendant have to pay both parties' court costs, regardless of the outcome?

9/2/2021 10:47:08 AM

Pupils DiL8t
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Regarding my question in the post above:

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-08-31/texas-six-week-abortion-ban-takes-effect-with-supreme-court-mum

Quote :
"Marc Hearron, an attorney for the Center for Reproductive Rights, said the law 'creates a vigilante scheme' that will encourage many people to file lawsuits against abortion providers as well as those who 'aid or abet' them. They are entitled to $10,000 in damages and have their court costs paid by the abortion provider if they win. However, they pay no court costs if they lose, he noted."

9/2/2021 11:26:16 AM

thegoodlife3
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the same deranged right wingers who have been flooding school board meetings are going to start suing abortion providers

this is so fucking bad

9/2/2021 11:50:40 AM

dmspack
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feels like that form of vigilante enforcement is gonna have some major unintended consequences beyond enforcing abortion bans

[Edited on September 2, 2021 at 12:46 PM. Reason : it seems like a really terrible idea regardless of your thoughts on the abortion issue, imo]

9/2/2021 12:45:33 PM

Bullet
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^this doesn't help:

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/02/1033606817/texas-gun-law-permitless-carry-constitutional-carry

Quote :
"Texans can now carry a handgun in public without a permit or the background check and training the state previously required"

9/2/2021 12:48:30 PM

nacstate
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^^ I'm pretty sure any consequences are intended.

9/2/2021 1:14:14 PM

rjrumfel
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Ugh. Many people don't even know they're pregnant at 6 weeks. That's only 2 weeks after that first missed period. I bet many people wait until that second period before really looking into it. I'm sure the bill was written with this in mind.

[Edited on September 2, 2021 at 2:18 PM. Reason : 6 not 4]

9/2/2021 1:55:15 PM

thegoodlife3
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they’re evil fucks who are hellbent on controlling women’s bodies

9/2/2021 1:59:04 PM

dmspack
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Quote :
" ^^ I'm pretty sure any consequences are intended."


The consequences are absolutely intended as it relates to enforcing the abortion law in Texas. What I meant (and maybe you were already referring to this), whats gonna stop other states from enforcing other non-abortion laws this way? Feels like it opens the door for a really fucked up and backwards way to enforce laws.

9/2/2021 2:06:26 PM

thegoodlife3
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Florida is already using it as a blueprint to pass similar legislation there

9/2/2021 2:09:21 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"Marc Hearron, an attorney for the Center for Reproductive Rights, said the law 'creates a vigilante scheme' that will encourage many people to file lawsuits against abortion providers as well as those who 'aid or abet' them. They are entitled to $10,000 in damages and have their court costs paid by the abortion provider if they win. However, they pay no court costs if they lose, he noted."


Quote :
"I'm pretty sure any consequences are intended."


Well, then hit them with some unintended consequences: If vigilantes pay no court costs if they lose, wage campaigns accusing each individual Republican state congressman of abetting their mistress's abortion (whether they even have a mistress or not). What is there to lose? Smother them in their own bullshit.

9/2/2021 2:16:21 PM

rjrumfel
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No the consequences I was talking about was trapping people at the 6 week mark, because many don't know they are pregnant until many weeks after conception. Especially younger people who might miss a period and just keep on trucking.

I'd like to see their reasoning of 6 weeks.

9/2/2021 2:21:25 PM

Cabbage
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^Looks to me like you've already explained their reasoning.

I still like the idea of a campaign of lawsuits against TX Republican state congressmen.

9/2/2021 2:27:41 PM

Bullet
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^^that's exactly their reasoning. Many would probably readily admit it.

9/2/2021 2:28:45 PM

darkone
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Quote :
"I'd like to see their reasoning of 6 weeks."


Their reasoning is "fuck you". They've been pretty up front about that.

9/2/2021 3:40:59 PM

thegoodlife3
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add Arkansas and South Dakota to the list of states looking to institute the Texas law

9/2/2021 4:49:03 PM

nacstate
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What's stopping a man from raping a woman and impregnating her, then reporting her for trying to get an abortion and collecting $10k?

Can he still sue her even if he gets convicted of the rape?

9/2/2021 8:39:35 PM

HaLo
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Technically he can’t sue her but he could sue anyone who supplies money other for it or the provider. It’s a rediculous law that should have been struck down but here we are.

I do like the idea of launching lawsuits at all Texas republican lawmakers. This is vigilantism, might as well throw it back at them.

9/2/2021 9:38:26 PM

Cabbage
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^^Not defending the law, but it does at least account for that:

Quote :
"(j) Notwithstanding any other law, a civil action under this
section may not be brought by a person who impregnated the abortion
patient through an act of rape, sexual assault, incest, or any other
act prohibited by Sections 22.011, 22.021, or 25.02, Penal Code."


https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00008F.htm

9/2/2021 9:46:17 PM

rwoody
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Good thing rapists and assaulters are always convicted and never appointed to the Supreme Court or elected president!

9/2/2021 10:03:22 PM

nacstate
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^^ phew, dodged a bullet there.

9/3/2021 12:51:33 AM

UJustWait84
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has an actual female posted in this thread since...um...this shitshow of a decade began?

Anyway, Texas is a fucking nightmare and I feel so sorry for the wives of some of my friends who thought moving to Austin was going to be like California lite. It ain't.

9/3/2021 4:28:42 PM

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