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 Message Boards » » "Democrat party credibility watch" Thread? Page 1 ... 49 50 51 52 [53] 54 55 56, Prev Next  
bbehe
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https://www.npr.org/2022/11/11/1135878576/the-democrats-strategy-of-boosting-far-right-candidates-seems-to-have-worked

To support ^

It's a risky strategy, but definitely worked (this time)

11/11/2022 3:42:36 PM

theDuke866
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I have a problem with rightfully making the claim that these candidates are a threat to democracy and the American experiment…and then boosting them.

11/12/2022 2:10:34 AM

bbehe
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That's because you don't see the Republican Party as a threat. Republicans will happily continue to support policies that will continue us down the path towards irreversible climate change. A Republican US Senator bought a snowball into the Senate as proof that climate change was fake.

11/12/2022 10:44:46 AM

bbehe
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Like the GOP Judiciary tweeted out 'Kayne. Trump. Musk.' How's that working?

11/12/2022 10:52:41 AM

qntmfred
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Quote :
"It's a risky strategy, but definitely worked (this time)"


can't deny the results of those elections, but still don't like it. these things go both ways. better to operate on principles and focusing on being a party that attracts voters through their own message and track record, rather than just ends justifying means. things that work also apparently include spamming people with "5X MATCH YASS QUEEN RUSH A DONATION NOW TRUMP AND THE PROUD BOYS ARE GOING TO INVADE THE WHITE HOUSE" and I think we can all agree we'd all be better off if they'd knock that kinda shit off

11/12/2022 12:34:06 PM

rwoody
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I get at least 3 texts a day from Raphael Warnock, New numbers every time

11/12/2022 2:17:03 PM

The Coz
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I'm not giving money to politicians. At least not coupled with my contact information. Supposedly you can give up to $50 anonymously.

11/12/2022 2:37:26 PM

rwoody
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I need to learn how

11/12/2022 7:17:15 PM

The Coz
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Go to a rally and slip 'em a $50?

Quote :
"$50 limit on anonymous contributions:
An anonymous contribution of cash is limited to $50. Any amount in excess of $50 must be promptly disposed of and may be used for any lawful purpose unrelated to any federal election, campaign or candidate."


https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/contribution-limits/

11/12/2022 9:00:41 PM

rwoody
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A rally

That or a bunch of texts/emails, which is worse

11/12/2022 9:11:30 PM

The Coz
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OK, mail cash in a security envelope to their campaign headquarters with no return address and enclose a printed copy of the relevant Federal Election Commission rule with a smiley face drawn on it.

Geez, do I have to think of everything?!

11/12/2022 9:31:04 PM

rwoody
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Lol

11/12/2022 9:34:55 PM

theDuke866
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Quote :
"That's because you don't see the Republican Party as a threat"


That’s your retort to my statement about having a problem with boosting threats to democracy and the American Experiment?

11/15/2022 12:34:10 AM

bbehe
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I'm not sure the point in engaging with someone who gets wishy washy when discussing whether they'd ever vote for DeSantis

11/15/2022 7:49:11 AM

theDuke866
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I’m not sure what the point is of engaging with someone who can’t look a few moves ahead and see how someone leaning center-right might vote for DeSantis in certain circumstances.

But for what it’s worth, I’ll bite. Are we talking the current DeSantis, playing the MAGA-lite, or at least MAGA-adjacent, or arguably full-tilt MAGA (just a little less batshit and dysfunctional than Trump)? I’d say I’d be very unlikely to vote for him. Maybe if he was running against a really hard-left candidate, particularly if I felt such a candidate was incompetent or batshit. Maybe then I’d make the calculation that he’d be a lesser evil, or if we are most certainly fucked, I guess I’ll keep my taxes low until everything goes to hell and I expatriate or something. But in something within the realm of any reasonable likelihood, no, I wouldn’t vote for that DeSantis.

Are we talking about a DeSantis who moves back to much closer to what I expect he genuinely is at his core, when not playing a political character? A competent, Ivy-league educated business-wing Republican, who actively rebukes Trump and much of Trumpism as the political winds in the GOP shift in that direction (other than a dwindling core MAGA base who just can’t be brought back to reality.) Maybe I consider voting for that guy. Maybe he comes back around to policies and a style of government I support—and to whatever extent he would still be imperfect—either genuinely, or by throwing a few scraps to those aforementioned MAGA fucks—is a vote for him a nudge to steer the GOP towards a workably good place? The Dem Party alternative would be a variable in this scenario, too.

There’s too much in flux right now for me to chisel anything in stone and say “nope—no way, no under no circumstances would I vote for him.” That’s more the case now than ever, with the possibility that he is an intermediate step in wresting the GOP from the crazies to the normies. I’ll evaluate it case-by-case, as I always have (other than Trump, Gaetz, etc. Fuck them. No way, no how.) i abstained from DeSantis vs Gillum, but was glad to see DeSantis win (and would have sucked it up and voted for him if I’d known fully how fucked up Gillum was.) in this recent election, I voted for CristC against DeSantis. So, for what it’s worth, I have never voted for DeSantis. I’m also not going to say that there is no set of circumstances in which I would. That has nothing to do with being “wishy-washy”, though.

In any case, saying that I disagree with boosting Republican “threats to democracy and the American experiment” is because I “don’t see the Republican Party as a threat” is fundamentally and obviously stupid. It’s precisely because I see them as the premier threat, and (a) it’s not worth risking boosting them into office, and (b) it neuters the credibility of the argument that is critical to make—that these people are a threat. It’s not just quibbling over tax policy or whatever.

[Edited on November 15, 2022 at 7:39 PM. Reason : ]

11/15/2022 7:38:45 PM

bbehe
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And that's the thing you, and others, do that baffles the shit out of me. You claim you'll never vote for election deniers/ultra Maga/whatever, but then essentially admit that DeSantis would take those opinions if the political calculus was there.

11/15/2022 8:01:59 PM

theDuke866
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I think that he, and most politicians, would take practically whatever position was necessary if the political calculus was there.

11/15/2022 8:50:01 PM

bbehe
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Oh come on. DeSantis is a snake who is essentially both sides'ing this all while building his own private election security force and taking over drawing districts.

Trying to say "Well dems would do the same thing..." is such an untrue cop-out

[Edited on November 15, 2022 at 9:12 PM. Reason : L]

11/15/2022 9:11:18 PM

CaelNCSU
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DeSantis showed more political courage in 2020 than any politician since at least any of us have been alive. In the face of 24/7 propaganda, fear, and attacks against him he allowed people to set their own level of risk and allowed businesses to stay open.

Meanwhile in Santa Monica my favorite bar, coffee shop, movie theater, and several of my favorite restaurants closed. The workers lost their jobs, many moved away. I know at least one restaurant owner than went bankrupt and had to leave LA and move in with his parents. At 50.

My first beer in Florida the bartender talked about DeSantis like he was Jesus. "That guy saved my life. I'd be living on the street if my place stayed closed." People have repeated the sentiment, particularly if they owned small businesses.

I voted Obama twice, have never considered myself conservative and I voted for him. The balls on the man deserve the vote.

Hopefully the security force starts putting any risk averse covid people in camps. Then I'd donate money and knock on doors for him.

[Edited on November 15, 2022 at 9:49 PM. Reason : A]

11/15/2022 9:46:44 PM

UJustWait84
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Seriously, please stay in Florida. The world is a better place for it.

11/15/2022 9:51:19 PM

CaelNCSU
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I hope you're drafted first and wear your mask on the Ukrainian front.

11/15/2022 10:05:54 PM

thegoodlife3
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I co-own a bar

we followed every state and local protocol, as well as CDC guidelines, and had very few positive cases

we’ve been thriving since the worst of it, and all without a piece of shit fascist governor

fuck out of here with any praise of a Desantis over his handling of the pandemic. Florida had one of the worst per capita death rates in the country

[Edited on November 15, 2022 at 10:21 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2022 10:19:58 PM

CaelNCSU
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Yeah and one of the most elderly populations.

11/15/2022 10:23:39 PM

thegoodlife3
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did they deserve to die?

11/15/2022 10:27:01 PM

CaelNCSU
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Yes if they thought schools should be closed over taking extra precautions themselves.

Otherwise give elderly priority for the vax, ppe, and care. All of which Florida did. But again old. Covid is 1000 fold more deadly to the elderly. Any state with excess old people would be over represented.

I know we probably aren't going to agree. My official position is I hope a fascist gets into power and gives your bar to someone who lost their job over covid.

11/15/2022 10:32:28 PM

aaronburro
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It takes an interesting set of mental processes to think the below is a good set of ideas...

1) We have an older population
2) Older people have worse outcomes from COVID than the general population
...
X) We should have looser COVID policies than places with younger populations

11/15/2022 10:45:37 PM

CaelNCSU
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It was protect the elderly where practical and not at the expense of kids. No where did I claim elderly states should be more open.

11/15/2022 10:49:53 PM

thegoodlife3
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do kids in Florida teach themselves/never come in contact with anyone over the age of 65?

11/15/2022 11:11:28 PM

CaelNCSU
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Grand parents generally like to see their grand kids. Some of them had the opinion, fuck it I'm not spending my last years locked at home. Others are still wearing masks at home and sanitizing wear people sit when people change rooms.

If you know the risks, you can play at whatever level you are comfortable. One can never delegate your safety to someone else.

11/16/2022 6:13:43 AM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"One can never delegate your safety to someone else."


You sure about that? I can think of LOTS of times you delegate your safety to someone else (flying on a commercial airline (or any transportation provided by a third party), for example).

Or did you mean to imply that only within certain boundaries?

11/16/2022 1:46:30 PM

Bullet
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lol, this loon is ranting about covid camps again.... and then this?

Quote :
"The balls on the man deserve the vote."


You want to vote for Desantis' balls?

11/16/2022 1:56:01 PM

rwoody
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Support the rail workers pls

11/29/2022 10:10:49 PM

StTexan
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Administration wants to give 24% pay raise? If accurate, way to go Biden

11/30/2022 1:12:49 AM

rwoody
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As long as they never get sick

12/1/2022 11:42:46 AM

rwoody
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Dem congress broke a strike

Related:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/11/rail-strike-why-the-railroads-wont-give-in-on-paid-leave-psr-precision-scheduled-railroading.html

12/1/2022 4:21:47 PM

theDuke866
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^^ So...I have the option at my job to go part-time if I want. The pay per hour is substantially more--probably something like 15% more--because you don't get any vacation/sick/PTO/etc. It's explicitly formulated like that--the longer you've been with the company, the more vacation you get, and the contract provides the formula for converting that into an extra pay differential if you're part time. If you want to go on vacation, you just don't make yourself available for work those days. You get paid for that vacation throughout the year by virtue of an increased wage explicitly calculated for that purpose.

I'm assuming these jobs get paid very, very well for what they're doing and for the requirements to be able to do the job. After a 24% raise, I bet the pay is in crazytown. While not offering any paid leave seems draconian, clearly it's that the companies would rather just overpay the shit out of them all the time, but never have them no-show for work unless it's really unavoidable. Effectively, their paid sick leave is just spread over all the hours that they DO work, but the workers don't see it that way.

From the company standpoint, they could accede to the paid sick leave in exchange for less hourly pay, and that's basically a wash. That's what most companies do. That comes at a big operational cost here, though, so the companies aren't going for it, and they furthermore aren't opening the door for that to be a negotiable in subsequent negotiations.

At first I was sympathetic to the workers here, but as I've learned more, it seems like there's a good reason for the companies to be hard-nosed on that one, and the workers are already getting a sweet deal. They just aren't viewing it that way.

(My guess is the union negotiators get all this, but are pushing for it anyway rather than just walking away with what amounts to a win, because they know the optics of denying sick pay don't look good and they think they have leverage there.)

[Edited on December 1, 2022 at 9:03 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2022 9:01:48 PM

bbehe
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A 24% raise spread out over 5 years isn't really 'crazy town'

12/1/2022 11:15:02 PM

HaLo
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Welcome to the show South Carolina

12/2/2022 5:57:53 PM

The Coz
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Thx!

12/3/2022 11:10:00 AM

HaLo
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Sinema looking for some power/favors

12/9/2022 6:47:54 AM

The Coz
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Oh, WTF?!

12/9/2022 7:20:17 AM

rwoody
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The best possible case reading of this is that she is mainly looking to 2024 and she stays the same otherwise.

Wild that she started her career as a progressive if I remember correctly and has just moved steadily right

12/9/2022 10:17:31 AM

A Tanzarian
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She's the next Tulsi Gabbard

12/9/2022 10:34:47 AM

aaronburro
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Or maybe the party's crazies have moved the party out from underneath her, using Trumpism as a cover for ideas and notions that are largely unpalatable to the nation and which would get them throttled in the absence of Trumpism

12/9/2022 11:10:32 PM

phried
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She was Green Party at one point

12/10/2022 7:39:33 AM

The Coz
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^^Maybe. What examples would you assert?

12/10/2022 7:48:45 AM

thegoodlife3
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I bet he doesn’t have any

12/10/2022 1:31:06 PM

The Coz
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That's why I asked.

12/10/2022 3:13:38 PM

StTexan
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We know.

12/10/2022 10:32:57 PM

The Coz
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Oh. Sry.

12/11/2022 12:53:27 AM

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