Again, to accept that him not being a neocon will matter is to accept he actually cares about anything he said to win. I'm skeptical.

Paul Ryan, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Guiliani, etc will have far more influence on actual policy than Trump himself I bet.

Quote :

"The policies on his website aren't as terrible as most Republicans. Doesn't even mention abortion, lgbt, really any social issues."

Doesn't matter. If he appoints two justices to SCOTUS in the manner he said he would (running them through the Heritage Foundation) what do you think happens?

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 1:50 PM. Reason : X]

11/9/2016 1:48:16 PM

So on CNN, there's an easy-to-find link to Hillary's concession speech, but after looking around for a few minutes, all I can find is a typed transcript of Trump's speech. Maybe I'm missing the video. But we all know his speeches look a lot more horrible than they sound.

CNN is still not giving up on their bias huh. But again, maybe I'm just missing the link.

11/9/2016 1:50:18 PM

Keep in mind that the GOP knows a reckless assault means they lose in 4 years.

^^
I don't think he will. Also why are we assuming the justices can't make it 4 more years? We had a 90 yr old in there once.

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 1:51 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2016 1:50:25 PM

Democrats, Trump, and the Ongoing, Dangerous Refusal to Learn the Lesson of Brexit

https://interc.pt/2ekJt9O by

11/9/2016 1:51:58 PM

Why? They spent eight years doing reckless shit and were rewarded with carte blanche. Maybe someday Democrats will understand midterms matter but until they do I see no reason to think being more reckless will hurt them.

^^ I hope you're right but why not take him at face value when he says that?

(Isn't Ginsburg a two time cancer survivor in her 80s?)

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 1:53 PM. Reason : X]

11/9/2016 1:52:15 PM

in very old interviews he gave less-rambling answers to position questions that were almost moderate, now we get to find out of those were real answers and this was all him just playing the system or if the new trump is real

but even then he was still basically a slightly less shouting version of today:
http://patriotvideos.net/this-27-year-old-interview-of-trump-might-make-make-people-re-consider/

so who knows

11/9/2016 1:52:18 PM

I've always posited that Trump is actually some sort of pro-business moderate. That's what he was in the 90s. Did he suddenly become a social conservative? I really doubt it. I think he knew what it would take to win as a GOP and said the things he needed to say, but I think a Trump presidency is a lot less scary than, say, a Cruz presidency.

11/9/2016 1:54:32 PM

^^^
Bc he lies to everyone and the heritage foundation doesn't reflect what (i hope) he really believes.

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 1:55 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2016 1:54:50 PM

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies

6 weeks paid maternity leave, anti-regime change, infrastructure and clean water investment, VA reform, huge middle and lower class tax cuts (especially for single filers)

These are not GOP policies. Of course others are not great, but Cruz or even Kasich would have worse

For me, his voter base is the biggest problem, and he needs to make it a big point to discourage their behavior.

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2016 2:03:03 PM

So the upshot of this is that maybe Trump was lying all along about things like building a wall, barring Muslims, abolishing Obamacare, and global warming being a myth. Given how much he lies all the time anyway, maybe I should worry less now.

11/9/2016 2:12:24 PM

I thought Trump said Mike Pence was going to run his administration? You know, the guy who championed some of the worst anti-abortion and anti-LGBT policies in the country? Trump (with or without Pence's help) is just going to fill his cabinet out with the same GOP dorks and alt-right shitbags that have been attached to his campaign from the very beginning. These people haven't come up with a new policy idea in 2 decades, what makes you think they're going to do anything except double down on the same done shit they've done for the the last two decades?

11/9/2016 2:13:36 PM

^^
The worst thing there is the global warming denial, which obviously is a huge problem, but not any different than other republicans

The wall, whatever, waste of money. His deportation policy though...

He only wants to ban people from certain countries. Not great but not the end of the world.

ACA, don't care, garbage legislation.

I'm just failing to see the nightmare.

^
Let's see what happens there I guess. If the worst thing you have is that he's a Republican, idk what to tell you. It's like people are living in this fantasy world where if we elect a Democratic president, we'll never get another Republican. That's just not how it works.

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2016 2:17:39 PM

I think it's a legitimate concern when they control everything in a deeply polarized country. I genuinely fear for my LGBTQ and minority friends and acquaintances. Some from policy perspective and some from what has become mainstream (Breitbart thinking is absolutely that). I don't think that I'm being too outlandish to think that.

You're right, though. If I don't give him a chance I'm no better than all those people back in 2009 who never gave Obama a chance. I'm going to see what Trump does. I truly hope he makes this country better for EVERYONE. Criticizing him now for something he hasn't yet done is pointless.

11/9/2016 2:30:44 PM

Quote :

"https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies"

Maybe I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome but if he does half of that shit, I'll be happy. (The good half, not the immigration and gun stuff)

11/9/2016 2:30:44 PM

I appreciate you guys are trying to make the best of a very unknown situation, but I operate under the assumption that everything Republicans touch turns to complete shit (not that Dems are much better). Sure some of that is bias, but a significant amount of it is an objective truth built over the last two decades. Trump, with a GOP senate and House, is going to an unmitigated disaster.

11/9/2016 2:35:41 PM

yeah, even if Trump strongly believes in those positions and has every intention of pushing them (yuge if), they wouldn't get through congress

11/9/2016 2:43:02 PM

Quote :

"I'm just failing to see the nightmare."

Sure, if you ignore the fact that we basically just validated sexual assault and unmitigated racism as A-OK in 2016 America. No one's gonna forget the things this guy said and did in his life and during this campaign, nor the fact that most voters were either ok with or didn't care enough about it to show up to the polls and make sure he didn't win. Maybe his voters aren't racist/sexist (I believe many of them are), but he certainly is. Remember, Billy Bush got fired, but Donald Trump got elected President. What does that say to women and racial minorities nationwide other than "we don't give a fuck about you.".

Setting that aside for a moment, governing wise, I see best case scenario as a term of W if 9/11 never happened. A Republican wish list of bad policy gets passed, the economy takes a downturn, he says and does a bunch of idiotic things that gets him ridiculed, and then gets voted out after 4 years. Worst case scenario though ..... who knows? If there's another 9/11 style terrorist attack or some other calamity of foreign origin there's no telling how bad things could get. That's where the whole "uniquely unqualified to be President" part comes in. Let's not forget all the anti-democratic fascist overtones dripping throughout his entire campaign. We didn't imagine that either.

11/9/2016 2:51:15 PM

In all honesty, I don't give a shit about Clinton losing. I just hate the fact that this completely unqualified candidate that lost all of his debates is the winner.

11/9/2016 2:54:48 PM

Quote :

"Sure, if you ignore the fact that we basically just validated sexual assault and unmitigated racism as A-OK in 2016 America."

I think it's time to come to grips with that fact that these types of statements have lost their effectiveness.

I'll just quote Dave Chappelle with an insightful point on the "sexual assault":

Quote :

"“Sexual assault? It wasn’t,” Chappelle said. “He said, ‘And when you’re a star, they let you do it.’ That phrase implies consent. I just don’t like the way the media twisted that whole thing. Nobody questioned it.”"

And, to continue on that point, I think equating anti-illegal immigration and racism is just dishonest.

11/9/2016 2:55:54 PM

Quote :

"I think it's time to come to grips with that fact that these types of statements have lost their effectiveness."

I don't care if they lost their effectiveness, or that hordes of non-college educated white voters aren't bothered by them. It's the truth, and honestly part of reason he won is because not enough people in the media and in leadership positions were willing to say it.

Quote :

"And, to continue on that point, I think equating anti-illegal immigration and racism is just dishonest."

What about birtherism? Was that not racism? Or telling his people at his rallies to "watch certain areas"? Or his well documented history of racial housing discrimination? Or, Or, Or. I understand the desire to whitewash that stuff now that he won and give him a chance to not fuck everything up, but ignoring that it ever happened just opens the door for him to continue this kind of behavior.

And yes, I'm venting. Sorry, but I'm a son of immigrants who married an immigrant and have a 6 month old daughter. Check my post history, I didn't really harp on this stuff too much during the campaign because I was too busy defending Hillary from baseless bullshit. Now that he's won, the reality of what this election means to my family is hitting me hard.

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 3:08 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2016 2:59:20 PM

Trump isn't any more racist than your out of touch grandpa. And he's less racist than most other Republicans . Part of the blame is shared by the media and the DNC for pushing this narrative and ultimately giving the more extreme parts of his voter base a voice.

As I said earlier, I hope he can reel it back in now that he has their votes.

11/9/2016 3:04:44 PM

I actually don't think Trump is racist at all. He doesn't care how he wins or makes a buck and he'd treat anyone the same to get what he wants. Surely he isn't the worst in the GOP by a long shot.

I, however, do think there is a pretty large amount of his supporters who at best, prefer their communities to be homogenous and at worst are out and out bigots.

11/9/2016 3:07:58 PM

Quote :

"Trump isn't any more racist than your out of touch grandpa."

11/9/2016 3:10:19 PM

Quote :

"I don't care if they lost their effectiveness, or that hordes of non-college educated white voters aren't bothered by them. It's the truth, and honestly part of reason he won is because not enough people in the media and in leadership positions were willing to say it."

Literally everyone was saying it. We've been hearing about how Trump is an unmitigated sexist and racist for a year and a half. News anchors, political leaders, pretty much everybody. They tried to grill him on it in all three public debates.

The thing is, when you call things that aren't racist and sexist, racist and sexist, it's a boy cries wolf scenario. People don't like being shouted down and called shitty people.

Quote :

"What about birtherism? Was that not racism?"

No, it wasn't. Just like being anti-immigration isn't racism. Being anti-Syrian "refugees" isn't racist, either.

I don't think the birther thing was a winning play or a good thing to do, but I think just calling it racism dilutes real racism. Liberal outrage would be a lot more effective it it were targeted in a judicious and honest fashion, but it isn't - everything is an outrage.

11/9/2016 3:10:27 PM

Nuance but birtherism, if not racist, was absolutely an appeal to otherism or racism. I mean hard to argue that.

** a positive in all this for sure is the House no longer needs to look into Benghazi

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 3:17 PM. Reason : ]

11/9/2016 3:11:36 PM

Otherism, yes, I can buy that. I don't think it's Obama's skin color that triggered that debacle, it was his unique background and parentage. Again, it's messed up, and probably appealed to some racists, but itself was not racist IMO.

11/9/2016 3:18:33 PM

Establishment democrats had to focus on the (many) moral shortcomings of Trump because they didn't have a substantive policy issue that they could promote to low income white voters. The Clinton campaign was nothing more than, "I'm with Her" which is not a mobilizing enough of an idea. She couldn't focus on income inequality because she's a corporatist. She couldn't focus on trade because she's a globalist. She couldn't even focus on foreign policy because she's a hawk. So she's left with only focusing on her gender and his hypermasculinity, and that's not enough to move the needle.

They could have easily avoided that, though. But they chose not to. They thought that accurately painting Trump as a vile human would be enough, and obviously were wrong about that.

11/9/2016 3:20:26 PM

Quote :

"it was his unique background and parentage."

Yeeeeaahhh....tat's racism, dude. Suspicion of the legitimacy of someone for having non-white lineage. That's like, textbook racism. Which should be obvious, because it's no other (white) president had to undergo that kind of scrutiny.

11/9/2016 3:26:10 PM

Quote :

"Establishment democrats had to focus on the (many) moral shortcomings of Trump because they didn't have a substantive policy issue that they could promote to low income white voters."

What policy issue do you think would have accomplished this? These people don't want single-payer healthcare, or free college tuition, or any of the things Bernie ran on.

11/9/2016 3:26:52 PM

Trade policy.

But the problem is that is just a boogeyman in reality. Automation is the real issue and even the GOP has said they know that but it doesn't move the emotional needle they way "they are taking our jobs" does.

** and if I can say that today has been some of the best dialogue about the shortcomings of Trump and of the Democratic Party on here I've seen. It gives me hope.

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 3:30 PM. Reason : X]

11/9/2016 3:29:01 PM

the cognitive dissonance some people have to not even acknowledge that the birtherism was racist just baffles me.

That being said, setting aside the racist rhetoric that some of y'all don't want to admit, we just elected someone who:
(a) has never held public office
(b) lost all 3 debates
(c) didn't release his tax returns
(d) thinks vaccines cause autism
(d) is a climate change denier

How this will effect future elections terrifies me.

11/9/2016 3:29:53 PM

Cool, so are you going to cry about it and call people names, or at least make an attempt to push him in the right direction?

I'm all for protest, but I'm pretty sure if/when it comes down to it, most of the crybabies will continue to sit on their asses.

This sums it up:

https://www.facebook.com/ElizabethWarren/posts/10154223697948687

Quote :

"It's no secret that I didn't want to see Donald Trump win yesterday. I'm intensely frustrated by the apparent likelihood that, for the second time in five elections, a Democratic nominee will have won the popular vote but lost the presidency in the electoral college. But the integrity of our democracy is more important than any individual election, and those of us who supported Hillary Clinton will respect this result. President-Elect Trump promised to rebuild our economy for working people, and I offer to put aside our differences and work with him on that task. When he takes the oath of office as the leader of our democracy and the leader of all Americans, it is my sincere hope that he will fulfill that role with respect and concern for every single person in this country, no matter who they are, where they come from, what they believe, or whom they love."

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 3:40 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2016 3:33:11 PM

As a human being it's been soothing my soul to see responses like that from all over today.

As a liberal with a memory it is infuriating to me remembering all the republican statements 8 years ago

11/9/2016 4:04:02 PM

We can be better than that.

It took me a few hours today to believe that, but it's true.

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 4:16 PM. Reason : iPhone typo]

11/9/2016 4:06:11 PM

what is an area hour?

11/9/2016 4:13:21 PM

http://theslot.jezebel.com/all-along-it-was-you-1788758934

I'm sure these hot takes will help unify us

11/9/2016 4:24:12 PM

Quote :

"what is an area hour?"

it's a measurement of space AND time.

11/9/2016 4:28:00 PM

Quote :

"As a liberal with a memory it is infuriating to me remembering all the republican statements 8 years ago "

When they go low, we go high.

11/9/2016 4:32:26 PM

when they go low...

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 4:41 PM. Reason : damn moron beat me to it]

11/9/2016 4:41:36 PM

8 years ago we got a black man elected and all the biggots thought their way of life was over. Then we got this.

2 steps forward, one entire generation back.

11/9/2016 4:47:43 PM

Are there any good numbers out with a breakdown of the how different age bracket voted? I did a quick search earlier and couldn't find anything that gave me what I want

11/9/2016 4:55:16 PM

As counts keep coming in, we're down to 110k votes across Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin that decided this election. Overall turnout is 7 million less than 2012. Yikes.

11/9/2016 5:02:54 PM

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls

Gimpy this has a lot of info.

Exit polls though so take it with a grain of salt.

11/9/2016 5:04:31 PM

Weren't the exit polls all wrong for the most part?

11/9/2016 5:11:37 PM

Quote :

"As counts keep coming in, we're down to 110k votes across Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin that decided this election. Overall turnout is 7 million less than 2012. Yikes."

So basically the rust belt. In other words, poor working class voters didn't have enough of a reason to keep supporting Democrats, even though these states went Blue for Obama.

11/9/2016 5:12:18 PM

^^^ taken as they are, they look like normal exit polls for the past few elections. The idea that it was working class white people fueling trump isn't supported, and although Trump lost minorities, he didn't lose them by striking margins.

It's still weird the state-level polls didn't capture this, across the board, but looks like Hillary lost because people from across the spectrum didn't like her, and minorities weren't energized by her vs Obama.

Perhaps the only thing unusual is that the evidence did suggest that whites tended to show up more to vote against obama, but it looks like for the most part, these same whites showed up to vote for Trump. Could be #BLM backlash, or could just be whites are embracing the GOP as the party of their race.

^ that makes sense-- and to be fair, was Trumps strategy. To re-make the electoral map around manufacturing. Not sure what happens when people realize that it was in fact market forces to caused manufacturing to disappear, and not in fact government regulation.

[Edited on November 9, 2016 at 5:19 PM. Reason : ]

11/9/2016 5:16:42 PM

https://www.good.is/articles/moore-five-point-plan

SO michael moore, one of the few people who pretty much nailed how this election was going to turn out, has a plan.

11/9/2016 5:57:29 PM

Clinton's campaign is just another example of prevent defense not working

11/9/2016 6:21:45 PM

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-a-difference-2-percentage-points-makes/?ex_cid=story-twitter

Good breakdown of what went wrong with state polls. Looks like just a very, very tiny 1% shift in voters collapsed the projected clinton firewall.

11/9/2016 6:22:19 PM

Quote :

"The thing is, when you call things that aren't racist and sexist, racist and sexist, it's a boy cries wolf scenario. People don't like being shouted down and called shitty people."

This.

Trump was a desperately needed correction to stop the leftist cry-bullying. Unfortunately all of our college kids are being brainwashed with that mindset.

11/9/2016 6:27:44 PM