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qntmfred
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People4Bernie may not be "official" but it's a prominent voice of the Bernie movement. And AOC is pretty official and her garbage comments about the Freedom Dividend are not forgotten either.

Solidarity my ass.

2/13/2020 8:51:38 PM

daaave
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What do you expect? Some people are going to disagree with the Freedom Dividend. Some people might be mean about it. Most won't.

2/13/2020 9:09:06 PM

qntmfred
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and yet how come 90-95% of the time this garbage comes out of Bernie's campaign? He's had 4 years to get his campaign and its supporters to adopt an honorable approach to addressing policy differences, and he has failed. And for that and several other reasons he can expect ME to reject his movement. It's very clear I'm not part of his Us.

I will hold my nose and vote for whoever the Dem nominee is in order to disempower the GOP, just like I did in 2016, but I cannot say I am enthusiastic to support any of the remaining candidates.

2/13/2020 10:18:33 PM

dtownral
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What's the problem with Kelton?

^^ this. Yang called for dismantling social programs, of course there will be progressive supporters that dont embrace this (even progressives who support the concept of a UBI), what did you expect?

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 10:26 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2020 10:20:04 PM

daaave
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Quote :
"and yet how come 90-95% of the time this garbage comes out of Bernie's campaign? He's had 4 years to get his campaign and its supporters to adopt an honorable approach to addressing policy differences, and he has failed."


Clinton supporters were far meaner. Kamala supporters were far meaner, fewer in number. Same for Pete, in my experience. Bernie supporters are just younger and more online, so you see more of them.

2/13/2020 10:25:51 PM

qntmfred
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don't gaslight me. i said what i said.


[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 10:31 PM. Reason : dtownral still spreading misinformation. ]

2/13/2020 10:27:15 PM

dtownral
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Ask Peter Daou how hes been treated by Clinton supporters on twitter

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM. Reason : In=on]

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 10:31 PM. Reason : Or warren/biden for qtem]

2/13/2020 10:27:34 PM

qntmfred
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did I say I support Clinton and the establishment machine?

2/13/2020 10:29:15 PM

dtownral
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You said that Sanders supporters are responsible for 90-95% of being mean, which is nonsense. Its every candidate.

2/13/2020 10:30:58 PM

qntmfred
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I do not support Bernie.

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 10:32 PM. Reason : that's the bottom line. move along.]

2/13/2020 10:32:33 PM

dtownral
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I get that you're upset but Yang never had a viable path to the presidency, he said his freedom dividend was the first step to dismantling social programs, he courted trump supporters, he was friendly to fascists like andy ngo, he lied about supporting M4A, ... are you seriously expecting every single progressive to be okay with Yang? Really?

[Edited on February 13, 2020 at 10:41 PM. Reason : Almost forgot m4a]

2/13/2020 10:36:08 PM

qntmfred
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you're missing the point. i'm not upset because Yang didn't get the nomination. I have already come to terms with the reasons (legitimate and otherwise) why that is the case.

I'm calling out the fact that Bernie and his supporters claim appreciation and solidarity with our campaign but have done nothing to deserve it (and thanks for reinforcing that with the laundry list of smears you just repeated). all they had to do was acknowledge the benefits of the Freedom Dividend, but no they had to malign Yang as a libertarian tech bro because he wasn't "one of them." People4Bernie posted many times about UBI until 2016 when Bernie turned against it. Bernie may have started out as a campaign of social and economic justice for all Americans, but along the way it devolved into the same kind of angry, close-minded, self-serving tribalism that people hated about politics before he arrived on the scene.

2/14/2020 9:57:06 AM

dtownral
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UBI is a good concept that should be explored, Yang's plan for UBI is bad

the reasons i mentioned above are a short summary of why a lot of progressives aren't going to like yang

people4bernie isn't connected to the campaign

what's the problem with kelton?

2/14/2020 10:01:18 AM

rwoody
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I agree some supporters can be picks but has Bernie himself said anything other than this
Quote :
"Thank you @AndrewYang for running an issue-focused campaign and working to bring new voters into the political process. I look forward to working together to defeat the corruption and bigotry of Donald Trump."


AOC is maybe doing the dirty work (like preparing for M4A compromise (corporate Dem obv)) but she also seems pretty independent and unlikely to be someone's lapdog so who knows

2/14/2020 10:23:29 AM

qntmfred
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Empty words. didn't bother to say anything positive about Yang until he already dropped out, just hoping to draw in his supporters. it's fake af. didn't say anything when his supporters were smearing him for months? didn't say anything when the media and DNC ran the same playbook on Yang that they have done to him? Yang stood up for and showed appreciation for every candidate. Bernie is a joke.


[Edited on February 14, 2020 at 10:32 AM. Reason : anyways, i'm not here to talk about Bernie. peace out]

2/14/2020 10:24:53 AM

Bullet
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You seem to be taking this personally

2/14/2020 11:13:09 AM

dtownral
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as best as i can tell, bernie tweeted the same amount about yang as warren, biden, buttigieg and bloomberg

[Edited on February 14, 2020 at 11:54 AM. Reason : also, i just checked and yang's tweet to andy ngo is still up]

2/14/2020 11:51:20 AM

Geppetto
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News Flash: No candidate is perfect.

And candidly, we do have some pretty stark differences in the democratic party right now and those need to be worked out. but today isn't the day. Can't we just let it be that most agree they'll vote for the dem nominee no matter what out of principle? I think that is the larger, unifying story here.

I have some serious concerns with Bernie and, being a Mayor Pete supporter, have taken my fair share of words from them. I do agree that in general Bernie supporters throw the most shade at any other candidates supporters. This also needs to be worked out, preferably from the campaign level, but even if it doesn't let's be organized.

2/14/2020 12:03:44 PM

utowncha
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lol, andy ngo

2/14/2020 12:12:01 PM

daaave
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Just being honest here, I will never vote for Bloomberg, and neither will a lot of people. So if/when Pete fizzles out, keep that in mind.

[Edited on February 14, 2020 at 12:14 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2020 12:14:23 PM

Bullet
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So if it came down to it, you'd rather not vote and let trump win than vote bloomberg?

2/14/2020 12:33:50 PM

daaave
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Abso-fucking-lutely. Do you know anything about Bloomberg? We'll try again in a few years.

I know lots of people who held their nose for Clinton, who've voted every election for 20 years, who would sit this one out

[Edited on February 14, 2020 at 12:42 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2020 12:36:39 PM

utowncha
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i can confirm. a lot of the "vote blue no matter who" people on facebook actually wont vote for bloomberg. ^this dude is not alone.

2/14/2020 12:37:42 PM

dtownral
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i think i would still vote for bloomberg over trump, but it would be my last involvement with the democratic party. bloomberg is really fucking bad

bloomberg should have challenged trump as a republican

Quote :
"And candidly, we do have some pretty stark differences in the democratic party right now and those need to be worked out. but today isn't the day."


do we need to work them out ever? if this was another country without a 2-party system the different parts of the democratic party would probably typically be in the same coalition but they would be in different parties. in a 2 party system it's not bad if a party has internal differences, its just the result of a dumb system.

[Edited on February 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2020 12:38:03 PM

shoot
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Just came back from Bernie’s rally in Durham. Fantastic, fantastic. It’s my first time in life attending a political rally. Hope he can pick Yang as VP and I will vote for them

2/14/2020 1:00:53 PM

Bullet
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Quote :
"Do you know anything about Bloomberg?"


Would he be a worse president than Trump? Maybe so, but I'm not sure how.

2/14/2020 1:03:56 PM

daaave
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Same person politically, arguably more racist and misogynist, but more intelligent and effective. You could make an argument about Supreme Court nominees, but that's not convincing enough. And it's time to start thinking about revising the court anyways. Also, he's literally buying the entire Dem party apparatus, from ad slots, to debate participation, even stealing the workbase from local candidates. Just a bad precedent to set all around.

But I think the truth will come out about Bloomberg very soon, and Dem voters will ultimately make the right choice in the primary.

2/14/2020 1:18:39 PM

BigMan157
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bloomberg is the only person i've seen commercials for, not that I watch live tv much anymore

2/14/2020 1:43:29 PM

dtownral
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i've only seen steyer and bloomberg ads

2/14/2020 1:45:40 PM

qntmfred
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so People4Bernie deleted the tweet. good, but doesn't change anything for me.

[Edited on February 14, 2020 at 2:04 PM. Reason : they said the quiet part out loud, as they say.]

2/14/2020 2:03:43 PM

Geppetto
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Quote :
"Abso-fucking-lutely. "


I find it upsetting that so many people will suggest that individuals of another candidate vote for their candidate no matter what because we're a team, but then don't return the favor. This is Pete's exact criticism of the Bernie camp, and I hate to admit that it appears to be consistent.


Quote :
"So if/when Pete fizzles out, keep that in mind."


I already have and would vote for Sanders even though I have serious reservations about the guy. I'd like to consider myself a team player, who stays guided by a common good rather than a strict ideological stance.

Quote :
"do we need to work them out ever? if this was another country without a 2-party system the different parts of the democratic party would probably typically be in the same coalition but they would be in different parties. in a 2 party system it's not bad if a party has internal differences, its just the result of a dumb system."


yes we should. and my intent in working it out would be driving toward more of a multi-party system. just as the republicans have some serious issues they need to work out. Yes Dems may be in the coalition, but they would be able to work with other parties to get meaningful legislation passed, much like the liberal dems and the conservatives in parliament have, despite being a different coalition.

2/14/2020 2:09:15 PM

daaave
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Quote :
"I find it upsetting that so many people will suggest that individuals of another candidate vote for their candidate no matter what because we're a team, but then don't return the favor. This is Pete's exact criticism of the Bernie camp, and I hate to admit that it appears to be consistent. "


I hear you, but understand that a Bloomberg nomination would signify that the Democratic party is in no way on my team. It's the "Trump with a D next to his name" joke, but in reality.

[Edited on February 14, 2020 at 2:20 PM. Reason : we should prob move this out of the yang thread and allow fred to grieve]

2/14/2020 2:17:43 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"I find it upsetting that so many people will suggest that individuals of another candidate vote for their candidate no matter what because we're a team, but then don't return the favor. This is Pete's exact criticism of the Bernie camp, and I hate to admit that it appears to be consistent."

1 person ITT is "consistent"

2/14/2020 2:22:54 PM

Geppetto
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With regards to consistency, I am not necessarily speaking about this thread but more so that individuals who suggest they won't support any dem candidate are consistently Bernie.

This is far different than all Bernie fans consistently say they won't support anyone else, for what it is worth. That distinction is clear in my mind and doesn't reflect on how I view the lot. With that said, I do agree that Bernie's approach could use some adjustment in order to mitigate that consistency.

2/14/2020 3:19:54 PM

dtownral
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from a quick search i see plenty of Yang, Warren, Tulsi, and oddly like one Klobuchar who say the same thing

(and, to make the distinction, it's early in a primary and a lot more people are going to say that than will actually do it)

2/14/2020 3:30:08 PM

rwoody
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Bloomberg is with dems on guns, climate and.......??

Hes a republican on everything else. Not to mention a racist, a misogynistic, and friendly with Epstein and (previously) Trump and Giuliani.

2/14/2020 3:33:08 PM

justinh524
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Quote :
"Empty words. didn't bother to say anything positive about Yang until he already dropped out, just hoping to draw in his supporters. it's fake af. didn't say anything when his supporters were smearing him for months? didn't say anything when the media and DNC ran the same playbook on Yang that they have done to him? Yang stood up for and showed appreciation for every candidate. Bernie is a joke."


did you want sanders to just come out and endorse yang while they were both competing for the nomination or something?

2/14/2020 3:50:42 PM

shoot
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Will be commentating the debate tonight on CNN. Cool!

[Edited on February 19, 2020 at 10:41 AM. Reason : more accurate]

2/19/2020 10:20:17 AM

qntmfred
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2/21/2020 7:09:02 PM

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