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 Message Boards » » Attempted Overthow of the United States Government Page 1 ... 4 5 6 7 [8] 9, Prev Next  
thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" Who're "they"?"


right-wing fascists, obviously

[Edited on May 4, 2023 at 6:25 PM. Reason : c’mon, man]

5/4/2023 6:24:22 PM

thegoodlife3
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/ex-fbi-agent-feds-say-urged-jan-6-rioters-kill-police-worked-terrorism-rcna82775

Quote :
" Ex-FBI agent who feds say urged Jan. 6 rioters to kill police worked terrorism task force

Jared Wise was part of the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force and was supervisory special agent in charge of the Homegrown Violent Extremism unit."

5/5/2023 12:41:27 AM

The Coz
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Quote :
"right-wing fascists, obviously"

Didn't realize they were in charge of our national holiday observances now.

5/5/2023 11:47:21 AM

thegoodlife3
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don’t believe he said now

5/5/2023 12:02:48 PM

The Coz
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Saying "they'll" do something (if they is indeed right-wing fascists) pre-supposes that this mentality will become the ruling majority. Hopefully we haven't become that fatalistic yet.

5/5/2023 1:49:01 PM

Bullet
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We're getting there. There's lots of examples, but just the fact that there's plenty of congresspeople and senators who still deny the election results, defend trump, defend the Jan 6th rioters.. we've got governors like DeSantis and Abbot pulling their shenigans, states passing harsher and harsher anti-abortion, anti-trans, etc bills. There's plenty more to point to.

5/5/2023 1:55:21 PM

thegoodlife3
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^^ I’m not sure how anyone who is aware of what the right is currently doing could not see what the endgame is here

they’re doing everything in their power to make sure that they’ll be the ruling majority regardless of voter support

5/5/2023 2:17:24 PM

The Coz
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Im well aware of all that, but it seems more like a reaction to unfavorable demographic trends and an attempt to hold on to waning power than a serious political movement. Or so I want to believe. . .

5/5/2023 2:18:56 PM

emnsk
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this whole culture war seems like a dying last effort.

Their solid demographic is dying off, the newer generations have nothing for them. The majority of the country disagrees with them on multiple key issues.

it is this for a while and then they adapt or they're done

5/6/2023 7:32:32 AM

The Coz
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But even if they adapt mightily, I'd really have trouble taking them seriously for a long time given current displays.

5/6/2023 9:50:49 AM

moron
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Texas North Carolina and Georgia have all recently passed laws to tighten the gop controlled bodies control of local elections.

Electoral college already diffuses democratic votes and now key swing states are being entrenched against majority rule.

Even if culture war stuff is broadly unpopular it might be popular enough. Democrats should be trying to make inroads to Republican voters— appeal to common sense or something— in these swing states, even if it’s against conventional political wisdom.

5/6/2023 10:58:38 PM

StTexan
Suggestions???
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Texas aint a swing state

[Edited on May 7, 2023 at 2:18 AM. Reason : But good luck getting GA and NC, liberal bastions this past 50 years for a dem]

5/7/2023 2:16:10 AM

Bullet
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Several OathKeepers are finding out

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/26/politics/oath-keepers-jessica-watkins-sentencing/index.html

5/26/2023 2:36:56 PM

TreeTwista10
Forgetful Jones
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna88135

6/8/2023 1:36:14 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"At trial, prosecutors showed evidence that Watkins founded and led a small militia in Ohio and mobilized her group in coordination with the Oath Keepers to Washington, DC, on January 6. Watkins and her counterparts ultimately marched in tactical gear to the Capitol and encouraged other rioters to push past police outside the Senate chamber"


Quote :
"“I was just another idiot running around the hallway,”"


6/8/2023 2:34:01 PM

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Quote :
"Prosecutors alleged that Harrelson was appointed the “ground team leader” of the Oath Keepers on January 6, stockpiled weapons at a so-called quick reaction force just outside Washington, DC, and moved through the Capitol chanting “treason.”"


Quote :
"In an address to the judge before he was sentenced, Harrelson said that he has “no gripes against the government, then or now” and merely “got in the wrong car at the wrong time and went to the wrong place with the wrong people.”"




Just happenstance!

6/8/2023 2:37:52 PM

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https://apnews.com/article/capitol-riot-markus-maly-sentence-jan-6-f42074bd1c4788c5cdf9a2199d1e7efd

Quote :
""I went to a rally. That’s what I did,” he told the judge."

6/10/2023 2:01:54 PM

Bullet
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https://www.wral.com/story/man-who-stormed-capitol-while-free-on-attempted-murder-charge-gets-over-3-years-in-prison-for-riot/20949805/

Quote :
"A North Carolina man [Matthew Jason Beddingfield] who stormed the U.S. Capitol while awaiting trial for shooting a teenager in the head was sentenced on Tuesday to more than three years in prison for attacking police officers with a flagpole during the riot."

7/12/2023 2:10:34 PM

The Coz
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Another proud American patriot.

7/12/2023 2:27:28 PM

Bullet
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I'm farily ignorant to the details, but why did it take so long to charge the "Fake Electors"? Wasn't that an obvious crime? I assume it's because they were working with some of them for testimony?

7/19/2023 10:30:47 AM

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continuing on my theme from above - https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2021/05/28/the-mob-made-me-do-it-and-other-lame-excuses-from-jan-6-capitol-rioters-editorial/

7/25/2023 2:18:10 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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^^ My understanding is that the Michigan Attorney General deferred to the Department of Justice, but the DOJ dragged its feet until the House January 6 Committee finished its investigation.

7/25/2023 5:52:48 PM

Bullet
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^Thanks. I mean, I don't even really understand "electors". Wasn't it immediately obvious they weren't the "real" ones? It just doesn't seem like it was a very good plan and there's no way it could have possibly worked. But again, I just don't understand the process.


On another note:
https://www.wral.com/story/trump-once-condemned-the-jan-6-rioters-now-hes-become-one-of-their-biggest-supporters/20973809/

7/27/2023 11:17:55 AM

Pupils DiL8t
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My guess would be that they felt that the Department of Justice would deem it to appear too politicized to bring charges against them if their plan didn't succeed.

7/27/2023 2:24:14 PM

Bullet
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https://www.wral.com/story/indictment-shows-white-house-lawyers-struggling-for-control-as-trump-fought-to-overturn-election/20993702/

8/10/2023 10:10:29 AM

Pupils DiL8t
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I've yet to see what benefit Kenneth Chesebro would derive from being tried on an earlier date.

Was he just not wanting the cloud of an indictment hanging over his head for an extended period of time or would splitting the co-defendants into different trial dates make it more difficult for the DA's office to seek a conviction?

8/25/2023 8:21:27 AM

aaronburro
Sup, B
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A few things...
1) A Hail Mary that the DA isn't actually prepared for a trial that early, and they catch her off guard
2) If I'm reading shit right, he gets a more favorable jury selection process if he goes alone. He gets all 12 peremptory strikes against potential jurors instead of sharing them along 18 others. And the jury makeup he wants is likely different than the one Cheeto wants
3) He might be able to appeaer more sympathetic to a jury when tried alone than with Cheeto's big mouth running beside him.
4) The evidence against him is likely a subset of the total evidence that would be presented against all 19 defendants, so hopefully he's not buried underneath their mountain of shit.
5) Shorter trial if he goes alone, spend less money
6) (Not a benefit to him) He can be the sacrificial lamb to see what evidence the DA has and to expose her trial strategy. That's a benefit for later defendants, and he might have just drawn the short straw.
7) again, doesn't help him, but if he does manage to get an acquittal, it helps all the other defendants

8/25/2023 10:19:24 PM

moron
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^^

My non-lawyer half assed guess is that if his charges/crimes are harder to prove and he wins his trial, it gives the appearance that the rest of the charges are bunk

Occam's razor would suggest though he's just looking out for his own self interests and doesn't care about trump, and wants to cut the best deal he can to stay out of jail

8/26/2023 2:59:00 PM

moron
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Looks like March 4th is the day

https://www.threads.net/@aaronparnas/post/CwfkYNhgNY4/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

8/28/2023 11:05:38 PM

HaLo
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LOL at trying to reference Scottsboro

8/29/2023 8:09:26 PM

The Coz
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LOL! WTH?!

Making that comparison to a black female judge I'm sure was especially endearing.

They said an early trial was equivalent to moving forward with the haste of the mob.

1. Over 3 years after event in question.
2. On the nose regarding a mob.

8/29/2023 8:57:44 PM

emnsk
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So, if the US does eventually balkanize. what team will you form/join??

I think I'd like to be a mountain man and jump out of trees and stuff

the cities will just be people killing their leaders, and then the new leaders getting killed. french essentially

8/30/2023 12:52:18 AM

The Coz
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I'm on team Slovenia.

8/30/2023 7:33:55 AM

Bullet
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22 years

https://www.wral.com/story/former-proud-boys-leader-enrique-tarrio-faces-sentencing-in-jan-6-capitol-attack/21033422/

9/6/2023 9:02:34 AM

emnsk
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Genuine request.

Can someone explain the Jan 6th thing in a sequential way to me to explain how it was an insurrection or what made it so.

I have no sympathy or anything for these people, but I remember staying up to watch it and reading some testimonies, and to me, I just can't register it as more in my head than a protest that escalated due to the 'mob effect', at least for the vast vast majority people there, who ran in. Like I don't know if internet use desensitized it, but I can't take it seriously. A lot of it just seemed funny like the dude with the horns on his head jumping on the table

I have seen the "just because it was incompetent, doesn't mean it wasn't a coup" argument, but I don't really see it. Not that I oppose that view of it, I logically see it as that as well, just need clarification from an individual's perspective.

9/6/2023 11:12:46 PM

A Tanzarian
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Yeah, the gallows were pretty funny.

9/6/2023 11:46:21 PM

emnsk
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A prop gallow made out of home depot mdf hankered together with a nail or two?



didn't some protestors erect a guillotine with a trump doll in it in front of his house or something lmao

I'm not denying the cultish craze of these people (the right is definitely a 100% radical, not a middle ground approach here)
just asking for a summary of the deeper parts of this apart from the shock value stuff so I can understand it better.


[Edited on September 7, 2023 at 12:50 AM. Reason : -]

9/7/2023 12:48:30 AM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" I have no sympathy or anything for these people, but I remember staying up to watch it"


it happened in the middle of the afternoon on a Wednesday

[Edited on September 7, 2023 at 1:16 AM. Reason : .]

9/7/2023 1:14:51 AM

Pupils DiL8t
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The House Select Committee spent hours detailing the activities that led to the breaching of the Capitol, and weeks were spent convicting the various Proud Boys and Oath Keepers who were involved of seditious conspiracy.

The House Select Committee's report can be read here:

https://www.jan-6.com/_files/ugd/acac13_ffa28ed6c2694272a265860e447122c7.pdf

Press releases regarding the seditious conspiracy convictions can be found here:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/jury-convicts-four-leaders-proud-boys-seditious-conspiracy-related-us-capitol-breach

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-additional-oath-keepers-sentenced-seditious-conspiracy-related-us-capitol-breach

A timeline of key events preceding and occurring on January 6 can be viewed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack

If you're able to digest all of this information and still don't see it, I doubt that any of us are likely to convince you.

9/7/2023 8:49:36 AM

The Coz
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Watch this if you have access to a Max or Hulu subscription:

https://www.hbo.com/movies/four-hours-at-the-capitol

https://www.hulu.com/series/four-hours-at-the-capitol

9/7/2023 9:24:07 AM

Bullet
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Quote :
"I just can't register it as more in my head than a protest that escalated due to the 'mob effect', at least for the vast vast majority people there"


Yeah, I agree, the vast majority were just idiots who got caught-up in the hoop-la and started breaking-into the Capitol and rioting and attacking cops (and probably politicians if they had the chance) And they're being charged accordingly. And I think that's why the vast majority aren't being charged with Seditious Conspiracy. But some did a lot more "conspiring", and truly planned and thought they could stop the vote-count and overthrow the election, and they used the other idiots to try to achieve that. And they're being charged accordingly.

9/7/2023 10:04:40 AM

emnsk
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Quote :
"
The House Select Committee spent hours detailing the activities that led to the breaching of the Capitol, and weeks were spent convicting the various Proud Boys and Oath Keepers who were involved of seditious conspiracy.

The House Select Committee's report can be read here:

https://www.jan-6.com/_files/ugd/acac13_ffa28ed6c2694272a265860e447122c7.pdf

Press releases regarding the seditious conspiracy convictions can be found here:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/jury-convicts-four-leaders-proud-boys-seditious-conspiracy-related-us-capitol-breach

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-additional-oath-keepers-sentenced-seditious-conspiracy-related-us-capitol-breach

A timeline of key events preceding and occurring on January 6 can be viewed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack

If you're able to digest all of this information and still don't see it, I doubt that any of us are likely to convince you."


Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. And to clarify, in a logical sense I do agree, I just haven't read enough into it to feel the gravity of the situation if you know what I mean.

Quote :
"Watch this if you have access to a Max or Hulu subscription:

https://www.hbo.com/movies/four-hours-at-the-capitol

https://www.hulu.com/series/four-hours-at-the-capitol"


Thanks, I'll check this out. I think I get it with my cell package

Quote :
"it happened in the middle of the afternoon on a Wednesday"


Attentive. I worded that wrong I guess, I meant that I was up the night before watching a lot of the anticipation online and whatever and then the night after watching the reports/yt/clips

[Edited on September 7, 2023 at 5:53 PM. Reason : --]

9/7/2023 5:51:12 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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9/8/2023 6:23:55 PM

moron
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The mob of people in the Capitol were a smokescreen, the attempted insurrection part was the proud boys standing by waiting from the cue from trump to move in where they then enact the plan to have pence stall vote counting, or kill pence and have some gop apparatchik step in and declare trump the winner.

9/9/2023 12:51:38 AM

The Coz
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^^^Let me know what you think about Four Hours At The Capitol. I just rewatched it so it's fresh.

You could easily mistake it for a tour group. Note all the hugging of cops. Also, we can't be sure it was Trump supporters acting that way.

9/9/2023 3:49:58 PM

emnsk
All American
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I'm about to watch it right now! Got snacks too!
Excited.

9/10/2023 12:31:37 AM

emnsk
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I'm 12 minutes in and have a lot running through my head.

First thing I'll say though, is that this is a stark reminder that what we have is very 'real'. Like we kinda take the ongoing daily progress of government for granted, oh they're certifying the votes or whatever, all formalities.
But when you have any sort of possible upset, it is a big reminder of what actually is.

Kind of confirms some of my initial thoughts, like even the capitol police, when the guys were at the edge of capitol, didn't even consider that they could get in cause like how is that even comprehendible, that some protestors could riot into our Capitol, in the United States of America?

9/10/2023 2:05:31 AM

emnsk
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For a lot of the people involved. I can envision how it felt for them.

They felt disillusioned, like their country was betrayed. Led by a lying political class. Right now, that's similar to many leftists I've seen, but then, that their savior was Trump. A lot of us have gone on tours during the capitol -- this was their tour. They were reclaiming their heritage, reclaiming their country, and entering such a beautiful building was surreal. It was like enlightenment shining upon them. Something was finally being done, it wasn't just the usual DC they have been reading and hearing about. They were there, they were making a change.

They didn't necessarily hate the cops or want violence (apart from when they), like when in the capitol and the shaman and the crowd redirected themselves to avoid the police they could've easily outnumbered. Seeing the cops point guns and fight back made them want to fight back more. They wanted to go in the chamber, they wanted the political class, they wanted to feel like they could make a change, like they were in those seats of power. Entering those chambers, the ones roamed by the american statesmen they heard of their whole lives and were raised on as children -- it was destiny.

"How come you're smoking weed in the capitol?"
"Cause I can."
"Joints under the rotunda."

The names of these political elite weren't just specific people to them or specific enemies, these names were symbols of all they believed was evil and unjust. You see a face in the media everyday, associate it with what you hate, that isn't a person anymore, it is a manifestation. And it is easier to justify wanting to destroy it.

The mind is powerful isn't it

[Edited on September 10, 2023 at 3:00 AM. Reason : -]

9/10/2023 2:37:45 AM

emnsk
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Man that was a great documentary.

And yeah, you can't help but conclude how Trump was responsible by action or inaction in some way or the other.
Of course when you get into the nitty gritty of individual lives, the blame game and blood on our hands, I don't like some of the logic being used.
But yes, Trump indeed.

thank you The Coz, for recommending this. I hadn't seen a proper documentary of this style in a while and this was a good thing to watch to help frame my views on what has happened and what will.

9/10/2023 3:33:14 AM

The Coz
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Glad you enjoyed. Thanks for the feedback. It's an unvarnished and immersive look at what actually occurred, and not so easy to ignore and explain away like it didn't even happen as it can be when people self-select their echo-chamber news sources. The guy smoking weed really believed all the pedophile ring stuff. Many of these people were and are exceptionally ignorant and allowed themselves to be tricked so that they can feel like a member of something bigger than themselves. Viewing Donald Trump of all people as some kind of relatable Christian hero and savior of the underclass remains mystifying to me. Sometimes I think it's more that he embodies and normalizes all their worst impulses and inclinations and makes it OK to be an asshole, and they love him for that.

9/10/2023 7:27:59 AM

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