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 Message Boards » » 2024 General Election Thread Page 1 [2] 3, Prev Next  
StTexan
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^lol, i totally disagree. If Trump runs, he wins primary. He could literally shoot someone on 5th avenue and win.

11/6/2021 11:46:55 PM

The Coz
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Quote :
"I don't think desantis wants to play 2nd fiddle to trump.

I do think desantis would beat trump in a primary though. despite the wing nuts on the right, the broader gop does realize trump is toxic to their ideology as conservatives.

republicans want a "smart trump" . someone who will fight for the white race, but who also knows how to form a competent governing coalition."


You may be right. However, if Trump pulls a Grover Cleveland, we still have Presidential term limits in the Constitution. Wouldn't Desantis want to be in the national spotlight primed to take over in 4 more years? Or do you think he would fear Trump doing something so insane that anyone associated with his administration would be tainted? After 4 years of chaos and an apparent deepening of the commitment of his base, it's unclear what that might be, but a Presidency without any concern about reelection, plus 4-8 more years of the creeping effects of senility surely wouldn't facilitate additional restraint.

11/7/2021 2:39:31 AM

aaronburro
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Quote :
"I don't think desantis wants to play 2nd fiddle to trump.

I do think desantis would beat trump in a primary though. despite the wing nuts on the right, the broader gop does realize trump is toxic to their ideology as conservatives.

republicans want a "smart trump" . someone who will fight for the white race, but who also knows how to form a competent governing coalition."


I don't know what country you've been watching recently, but it ain't this one. The "broader GOP" is Trump. That ship sailed in 2018. Party leaders made a deal with the devil to beat Hillary, thinking they could control Cheeto. Instead, he flipped the script on them and there ain't shit they can do about it now. There's no conservativism left in that party whatsoever. The entirety of their platform at this point is essentially "bow down to the orange man."

FFS, they literally watched him try to execute the VP on national fucking television and shrugged their shoulders. FoxNews is practically airing conspiracy-laden "documentaries" by Tucker Carlson at this point. The GOPs main effort right now is taking over election systems so they can overturn the next GOP loss. There is absolutely nothing left in that party except blind, unflinching loyalty to Donald Trump, above all else. The few sane folks that are left are heading for the exits, cause they see the writing on the wall. For God's sake, he's got them taking fucking horse pills

And the opposing party is worried about pushing 86 genders, white self-flagellation, taking down cartoons, mascots, and bottles of maple fucking syrup, and pushing utopian visions of a world with no police while organized crime robs stores blind in California.

[Edited on November 7, 2021 at 11:02 PM. Reason : ]

11/7/2021 10:58:22 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"And the opposing party is worried about pushing 86 genders, white self-flagellation, taking down cartoons, mascots, and bottles of maple fucking syrup, and pushing utopian visions of a world with no police while organized crime robs stores blind in California."

[citation needed]

11/7/2021 11:01:20 PM

aaronburro
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Citation: reality

11/7/2021 11:02:33 PM

rwoody
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Show me where national dems are pursuing policies on any of those things. Biden ran on upfunding the police for gods sake.

11/7/2021 11:57:35 PM

theDuke866
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^^^^ hell, it's unorganized crime doing it.

11/8/2021 1:41:21 AM

Cabbage
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Evidently aaronburro considers the bullshit he hears on Fox News to be a reflection of reality. LOL

11/8/2021 2:18:11 AM

aaronburro
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I can assure you that FoxNews is blocked on my tv.

11/8/2021 9:01:17 PM

Cabbage
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^Nevertheless, their propaganda is obviously reaching you in some manner.

11/8/2021 9:51:57 PM

StTexan
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Just because someone leans right doesn’t mean they fall victim to propaganda. Get your head out of your ass. Its stuff like that that makes people not want to vote dem

[Edited on November 8, 2021 at 11:24 PM. Reason : -]

11/8/2021 11:23:42 PM

rwoody
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Anyone that votes one way or another because they got their feelings hurt on a message board is dumb as hell and likely not gonna vote dem anyway.

And burro hasn't provided any evidence BESIDES fox that the dems have a platform like the one he laid out

[Edited on November 8, 2021 at 11:50 PM. Reason : E]

11/8/2021 11:48:03 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"Just because someone leans right doesn’t mean they fall victim to propaganda."


Who said I was basing my observation on whether or not aaronburro leans right?? I'm not. I'm basing it on the observation that he's parroting Fox News propaganda (regardless of where he heard it from).

Maybe if you didn't have your own head up your ass you would've realized that without needing it pointed out to you.

11/9/2021 12:59:30 AM

TreeTwista10
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everyone is susceptible to propaganda

11/9/2021 1:51:07 AM

Bullet
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Quote :
"taking down cartoons, mascots, and bottles of maple fucking syrup"


Maybe there are a few a democratic politicians here and there that have maybe supported these, but can you point to some examples, particularly of influential politicians supporting these ideas and more importantly, taking actions to support these?

11/9/2021 9:18:07 AM

utowncha
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what happened to syrup

11/9/2021 5:50:47 PM

TreeTwista10
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Aunt Jemima Pearl Milling Company Syrup

11/9/2021 6:02:19 PM

The Coz
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Ben's Original Rice!

11/9/2021 6:23:56 PM

A Tanzarian
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Quote :
"hey guise remember that time black people were slaves?

lol"


-- aaronburro

11/9/2021 7:42:31 PM

Geppetto
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@aaronburro's point may have been hyperbolized but he wasn't wrong. He's saying that the democratic leadership is focused on fighting every social war, where most Americans care a 5 or below and only a handful care at a 10, instead of focusing on issues that roughly 60% of Americans might care about at a 7, 8, or 9. It is understandable how this behavior could impact Democrats ability to maintain congress and the presidency.

If Trump does run again, which he may but I doubt for reasons I'll state below, then I'd suspect he'd lose. Trump isn't winning net new supporters, meaning those who voted for him will be the same or smaller. Those who hate him won't have forgotten and will likely still abstain or vote against him to prevent him from winning. I don't see a winning path for Trump because 2020 results were less about votes for/against a party as they were for/against Trump.

I doubt Trump runs again. His ego is fragile and he wouldn't want to face another loss against Joe, especially if Joe's numbers are low and Trump still loses. To go a step further, Trump can say that he did beat Joe the first time and doesn't need to do it again (won't matter that it's a lie). Trump will tease running and then anoint someone who he fully endorses to retain the votes of his loyals and minimize those who'd vote democrat just because they hate him.

Should clear heads not prevail at the Trump campaign office, then republicans will have it rough. I'm sure some leadership will conclude the same of Trump's chances as I did but they've embraced Trump so hard that they won't be able to stop him from running.

11/10/2021 1:10:37 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" He's saying that the democratic leadership is focused on fighting every social war"


I believe you meant to type Republican leadership. easy fix, though.

Quote :
" where most Americans care a 5 or below and only a handful care at a 10, instead of focusing on issues that roughly 60% of Americans might care about at a 7, 8, or 9. It is understandable how this behavior could impact Democrats ability to maintain congress and the presidency"


except they are trying to pass things that 60%+ of Americans are in favor of, and guess which party is uniformly against those things?

[Edited on November 10, 2021 at 1:21 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2021 1:16:57 PM

rwoody
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Yea I'm just curious what social wars they are trying to fight. They mighty make token offerings in public statements or actions, but what translates to policy?

The Republicans actively vote for the crazy shit they push

[Edited on November 10, 2021 at 3:21 PM. Reason : 4 posters have made this claim, zero have pointed to a corresponding action]

11/10/2021 3:21:13 PM

thegoodlife3
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meanwhile Republicans are attacking democracy on a daily basis, banning books, firing Black principals without cause, talking about men not being masculine enough, etc

[Edited on November 10, 2021 at 4:02 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2021 4:01:45 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
" He's saying that the democratic leadership is focused on fighting every social war"


Aunt Jemima, Dr Seuss, Mr Potato Head....Every one of these was a business decision made by the company owning the rights. Not Democrat party actions.

On the other side of the aisle, just this week you have Ted Cruz himself bitching about Big Bird. A while back Trump had a campaign ad with a little girl thanking Trump for allowing her to say "Merry Christmas" again.

It ain't the Democrats that are focused on fighting these social wars. Republicans both instigate and pursue these social wars, and the people that aren't even paying attention simply swallow the Fox News line that the Democrats are behind it all.

What a bunch of bullshit.

11/10/2021 4:33:54 PM

thegoodlife3
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I just couldn’t imagine typing that many words and being completely ignorant of the political landscape in 2021

11/10/2021 5:19:24 PM

StTexan
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^^^^^^trump BARELY lost in 2020 going up against covid. After Dems sucking so bad this year with no relief in sight, seems like all those states where biden had narrow wins go by by.

11/11/2021 12:31:52 AM

TreeTwista10
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not sure i'd call 306 v 232 and 81 million to 74 million "barely"

Trump is too polarizing to have a bunch of swing voters change their stance from 2020

[Edited on November 11, 2021 at 12:52 AM. Reason : .]

11/11/2021 12:48:31 AM

StTexan
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Omg. Trump wins wisconson, michigan, ga, arizona and pa next time. Shit could be 83 million to 75 million and he’d still win…

11/11/2021 1:38:34 AM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"After Dems sucking so bad this year with no relief in sight, seems like all those states where biden had narrow wins go by by."


Don't forget to include the fact that COVID is killing more Trumptrash than Americans, that just might be a factor, too.

11/11/2021 1:40:03 AM

TreeTwista10
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Bush barely beat Gore. It came down to like 1000 votes. This most recent election was objectively not close. But when Trump constantly lies about how he won, I guess over time you think it actually was close.

11/11/2021 2:24:33 AM

utowncha
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but kamala used a fake french accent

11/11/2021 7:58:10 AM

rwoody
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This thread is just going to be 3-4 years of conservatives/learners taking about how the dems are bad without being able/willing to give any concrete reasons why?

[Edited on November 11, 2021 at 10:28 AM. Reason : Silver lining if this prediction is true: tww around for 3-4 more years! ]

11/11/2021 10:15:39 AM

Geppetto
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Quote :
"Yea I'm just curious what social wars they are trying to fight. They mighty make token offerings in public statements or actions, but what translates to policy"



When dem talking points center on social issues that 60%+ of Americans can't identify as being within their top issues and the party lacks a handful of otherwise substantial and universally acknowledged policy wins, then token statements matter a lot. They matter because voters, rightfully, assume the things about which dem leadership talks or chastises the opposition is what's most important to the democratic party.

I'm not saying that dems are pushing policy in these areas and I'm not saying that they're responsible for social changes or cancellations, but I am saying that speaking about broader issues is a luxury that is hard to justify in absence of subsequent policy advancements that most Americans can agree improves their lives.

That's not a hard concept to understand. It was clear in @aaronburro's post that's what he meant and, if it wasn't, then it should have been clear from my previous post.

11/11/2021 1:35:39 PM

rwoody
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It's crazy to me that you think that is their focus in public or actions. They have spent months trying to get legislation for infrastructure and many other issues with essentially zero Republican support. Biden put out vaccines mandates. Congress passed 1.2 trillion infrastructure, congress is working on BBB.

From the left I completely agree that they should be doing more but not bc I think they are focusing on social issues?? It's bc Sinema and Manchin are blocking everything and Biden doesn't have much interest in pushing exec power (and is generally moving to center).

The key point is, electing republicans would fix none of this, if Republicans were at all on board with any of this stuff it would be done by now.

11/11/2021 2:10:44 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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I'm not sure that voters listen to what Democrats say as much as they listen to what Republicans say that Democrats say.

In Virginia, voters were incredibly concerned about critical race theory and punished Democrats for it, even though Democrats weren't promoting critical race theory.

11/11/2021 2:25:20 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"I'm not sure that voters listen to what Democrats say as much as they listen to what Republicans say that Democrats say."


^

11/11/2021 2:32:01 PM

Geppetto
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Quote :
"It's crazy to me that you think that is their focus in public or actions. "


For me, for implies what they're doing behind closed doors, but it does appear to be the messaging that they rely on or that makes the most noise. My point that I explicitly stated earlier is that this is problematic since dems don't have a series of legislative wins to shout about. Infrastructure is one, relatively new, and will have to compete with months of messaging that leads voters to believe that dems are primarily thinking about low singular segment social issues. Again, people are going to think dems care about whatever their talking points reflect, and they've been super weak on a clear message these past 8 months that would either reinforce recent legislative wins or take the place for missing wins.

Quote :
"They have spent months trying to get legislation for infrastructure and many other issues"


Yes, and the fact that it's months of intra-party debate isn't a good thing that makes dems look like they have direction. We can point out both senators, but the house could have passed Infrastructure ages ago and let the administration and party ride the wave of that win, but they did not. This is clearly more of a party issue than just two moderate democratic senators.


Quote :
"with essentially zero Republican support. Biden put out vaccines mandates. Congress passed 1.2 trillion infrastructure, congress is working on BBB... key point is, electing republicans would fix none of this, if Republicans were at all on board with any of this stuff it would be done by now."


This is a perfect reference for what I was saying about what dems focus their talking points on. If dems had spent the past 3 months pointing out that Infrastructure relied on some house republicans and all the good of build back better that is blocked by senate republicans, the story would be much different. Voters would hear the benefits of those plans and put republicans on defense. But, no, instead dems avoid those conversations and the entire story around infrastructure and build back better becomes dems can't even agree that it's a good plan, so why should anyone else (republicans or voters) believe that it is.

I mean, holy shit, I think republicans are often vile in the games that they play, but if they can do one thing well that is stay on message. I have no doubt that if parties were reversed, republicans would have had both of these through and, if not, would have had dems taking on the ropes getting hammered so hard as to why they were holding up infrastructure jobs and broadband for middle America hostage that no one would notice the intra-party debate amongst republicans.

I hope dems keep the majorities they have for 2022 and 2024, but for fuck's sake they need to change the way they message.

11/11/2021 4:31:19 PM

Cabbage
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^I absolutely agree with the latter part of your post, about how Dems should be hammering the message that Republicans are obstructing.

I'm not sure about your first paragraph, however. Where you say,

Quote :
"Again, people are going to think dems care about whatever their talking points reflect"


If this is meant to be a continuation of aaronburro's post (that their talking points are 86 genders, Aunt Jemima, cartoon characters and so forth)--I don't see any evidence to support that those are their primary talking points. In that case, this falls into the category of

Quote :
"I'm not sure that voters listen to what Democrats say as much as they listen to what Republicans say that Democrats say"

11/11/2021 4:47:51 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" For me, for implies what they're doing behind closed doors"


this is complete bullshit

“sure, they aren’t publicly saying these things/not voting on legislation about them, but we all know they’re doing it behind closed doors”

that’s Q level bullshit that happens to also be a way of telling on yourself

Quote :
" This is clearly more of a party issue than just two moderate democratic senators."


this is another way of telling on yourself. those two aren’t moderates in any way.

[Edited on November 11, 2021 at 5:53 PM. Reason : .]

11/11/2021 5:49:36 PM

rwoody
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^^^i agree that dems have and do suck ass at messaging, but that has nothing to do with the argument. I still say national dems have NOT spent the last month shouting out genders or product names or even defund the police.

I'll give an out and go beyond national, I have not seen how Murphy or VA guy shaped their campaign ads, did those ads focus on those issues??

Also dems are handcuffed in messaging. Republicans have multiple entire media apparatus designed to sell their story. Dems don't have that. "liberal" media actively works against Dem policies bc years of "liberal" accusations have broken their brains so they "both sides" every fucking issue. Every article says "Dems in Dis" as TGL said, instead of saying Republicans continue to be obstructionist. The run stories about price of the gas as if Biden has a single thing to do with that.


^moderate such a loaded term bc it implies virtue. Should call them "everything is fine"ers or something. Status quo'ers (I'm bad at this but you get the point)

[Edited on November 11, 2021 at 6:33 PM. Reason : E]

11/11/2021 6:30:41 PM

thegoodlife3
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or two Senators who are clearly corrupt, which is what they are

11/11/2021 6:46:27 PM

utowncha
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https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-tax-cuts-families-salt-social-spending-bill-2021-11

yes, democrats suck at messaging.

11/12/2021 7:29:22 AM

daaave
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^^
There are always enough corrupt Democrats to prevent the legislation we want, and action is never taken against them. At some point we need to see it as a systemic issue in the Democratic party, intentional or not.

11/12/2021 9:50:00 AM

utowncha
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i dont think i like that sort of criticism. republicans clearly engineered everything you just described.

[Edited on November 12, 2021 at 11:39 AM. Reason : .]

11/12/2021 11:30:20 AM

rwoody
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I vaguely remember you but you've been gone awhile, was your posting style always what it now seems to be: sarcastic shitposting?

11/12/2021 12:09:23 PM

Geppetto
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I feel like things are getting overly complicated. My first statement was...

Quote :
"@aaronburro's point may have been hyperbolized but he wasn't wrong."


...to show that while his words weren't exactly correct the spirit of what he was saying is right, which is republicans are a complete shit show right now, making an opportunity for democrats to come out strong but the voting public has the impression Dems are not focused on what will impact their lives (specifically trans issues vs improving everyone's lives).

Quote :
""I'm not sure that voters listen to what Democrats say as much as they listen to what Republicans say that Democrats say.""

Quote :
"do suck ass at messaging, but that has nothing to do with the argument"


You can that impression is due to messaging about what republicans think dems say, but I think no one mentioning CRT puts some limits on that POV. You can say it is because there are actual dem talking points on these issues that suggest they're focusing on it*. You can also say a vacuum of any quality messaging at all- which without question is a party failure- has led to people drawing their on conclusions about what dems stand for.

You can choose any of these options, with the reality probably being half the latter and split on the two former, but they all reach the same conclusion that the spirit of the original point is true because it is what resonates in the mind of voters. Perceptions that resonate in the mind of voters is important. And yes, since poor messaging is a major contributor, it is certainly part of the argument. Dem leadership needs to get out, message better, and drive messages that connect with 60%+ of voters. Because if not they'll miss an opportunity to pull ahead at a time when republicans are as fucked up as

Quote :
"here's no conservativism left in that party whatsoever. The entirety of their platform at this point is essentially "bow down to the orange man."

FFS, they literally watched him try to execute the VP on national fucking television and shrugged their shoulders. FoxNews is practically airing conspiracy-laden "documentaries" ... There is absolutely nothing left in that party except blind, unflinching loyalty to Donald Trump, above all else. The few sane folks that are left are heading for the exits, cause they see the writing on the wall. For God's sake, he's got them taking fucking horse pills"



*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/congress-sexual-orientation-civil-rights-gender/2021/02/25/1351bea4-7779-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html
https://www.yahoo.com/now/aoc-explains-trans-men-nonbinary-231600146.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/biden-transgender-americans-your-president-has-your-back-n1265836
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/us/politics/biden-transgender-patient-protections.html
https://www.advocate.com/politics/2020/12/04/pelosi-shuts-down-christian-reporters-trans-gotcha-question



[Edited on November 12, 2021 at 12:18 PM. Reason : .]

11/12/2021 12:16:53 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" but the voting public has the impression Dems are not focused on what will impact their lives (specifically trans issues vs improving everyone's lives)."


wat

11/12/2021 12:33:13 PM

rwoody
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^^being a part of a party's platform is not the same as being the focus. Are you advocating dems go anti trans?

You could probably find many similar articles from 2020 before the election

Aliso where are the articles about aunt Jemima and defund?

11/12/2021 12:42:35 PM

Geppetto
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I'm pretty sure by this point you get what I've said and what I mean. In the off chance that you don't, then it'd have to be because you're trying not to, especially on equating platform to party focus since I'd already stated in several ways that what voters conclude to be the focus vs. what's the actual focus.

I likewise find it hard to believe that you're really concluding that I'm even remotely suggesting the party goes anti-trans after several posts specifically calling out messaging aligning with how they're actively benefiting most of Americans' lives and around republican obstruction to making that happen.

11/12/2021 1:04:40 PM

thegoodlife3
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set em up

11/12/2021 1:15:40 PM

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