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thegoodlife3
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why are you so focused on trans issues?

I’m also struggling to understand your logic of voters thinking Dems are too focused on trans issues when it’s Republicans throughout the country who are passing anti-trans legislation

11/12/2021 1:19:00 PM

rwoody
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^^^Yeah I mean maybe it's tough bc you tied your argument to aaronburros dumbshit post. Your posts are more detailed, but his post is just nonsense. If you generally support dem platform I don't see the value in backing his hyperbole/bullshit/whatever. I mean the defund thing is not even party platform.

And in context of what you wrote, it seemed that you were posting those links to prove that "You can say it is because there are actual dem talking points on these issues that suggest they're focusing on it*" It's a big leap from "having talking points" to "focus". Republicans have just as many talking points.

[Edited on November 12, 2021 at 1:49 PM. Reason : E ]

11/12/2021 1:20:30 PM

Geppetto
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^^if you struggle to understand at this point (in life, not just this thread) how individuals construct a narrative based on messaging or even absence of messaging, that's a deficit of yours that I can't do much to resolve. Ditto if you can't connect that the context of the discussion regards the mindset of the general voting population and the narrative they've constructed around democratic efforts, especially as it relates to trans issues.

^I pointed out that despite its hyperbole, which I acknowledged, his post had a broader point that democrats need to capitalize on this moment when republicans are barely functional. I am genuinely confused as to what that is an issue because I believe supporting the platform means being critical and identifying where things can and should improve, which in this case is either 1) messaging that resonates with most Americans or 2) subsequent legislative/policy wins that minimize reliance on messaging.

The links were posted to address @Cabbage's suggestion that it may be more what republicans claim dems say rather than actual dem action and @TGL's assertion that dems were neither publicly speaking on these issues or passing affiliated legislation.

11/12/2021 3:28:25 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
" pointed out that despite its hyperbole, which I acknowledged, his post had a broader point that democrats need to capitalize on this moment when republicans are barely functional. I am genuinely confused as to what that is an issue because I believe supporting the platform means being critical and identifying where things can and should improve, which in this case is either 1) messaging that resonates with most Americans or 2) subsequent legislative/policy wins that minimize reliance on messaging."


For the first part, I think you're giving AB's post way too much credit. His words didn't make any attempt to make all the points you are making. For the 2nd point, if you take a look through my TSB history, I have probably been the single most critical poster in Dem/Biden credibility, at least before the last few weeks. So I think it would be clear that Dems need
Quote :
" pointed out that despite its hyperbole, which I acknowledged, his post had a broader point that democrats need to capitalize on this moment when republicans are barely functional. I am genuinely confused as to what that is an issue because I believe supporting the platform means being critical and identifying where things can and should improve, which in this case is either 1) messaging that resonates with most Americans or 2) subsequent legislative/policy wins that minimize reliance on messaging."


For the first part, I think you're giving AB's post way too much credit. His words didn't make any attempt to make all the points you are making. You didn't even attempt to defend 2/3s of his points so you must not have been THAT convinced. And when challenged he responded its reality, so he clearly thinks it's true.

For the 2nd point, if you take a look through my TSB history, I have probably been the single most critical poster in Dem/Biden credibility, at least before the last few weeks. So I think it would be clear I think they need to do way more. Maybe that lack of success has created a narrative about focus but its just that, a narrative, not reality.

11/12/2021 4:25:12 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"You can choose any of these options, with the reality probably being half the latter and split on the two former, but they all reach the same conclusion that the spirit of the original point is true because it is what resonates in the mind of voters. Perceptions that resonate in the mind of voters is important."


I think you're just muddying the whole point of the objection here.

Had aaronburro originally said that there's a widespread perception that Democrats are focusing on trans, defund police, cartoon characters and Aunt Jemima, and that perception is a problem, I would never had any objection. That's quite obviously true, and Democrats absolutely need better messaging.

But aaronburro didn't say that. He said that Dems are focusing on those things as if it were fact.

I agree that the PERCEPTION is a problem, and that implies to me:

Don't promote that misperception. And when someone does promote that misperception (like aaronburro did), call them out on it. Which I did.

I agree with what you say: That IS what resonates in the minds of many voters. Because of that, it's important at all times to clearly distinguish "X is true" from "A lot of people think X is true". If the latter is true and you think that's a problem, then you sure as hell shouldn't go around phrasing it as the former, perpetuating the problem.

Regarding your links, I think a lot of those are actually REactive to Republican policies (remember the NC bathroom bill?) and therefore I disagree that such comments imply that Democrats FOCUS on those issues.

11/12/2021 4:30:27 PM

thegoodlife3
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^^^ fuck off, dude

11/12/2021 5:27:07 PM

StTexan
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He is making a lot of sense to me. You uber progressives just live in some kind of weird bubble.

11/12/2021 5:54:59 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"He is making a lot of sense to me. You uber progressives just live in some kind of weird bubble."


...said the man from inside the bubble.

11/12/2021 5:59:06 PM

StTexan
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Yeah…inflation bubble lol

11/12/2021 6:29:06 PM

rwoody
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^^^I don't think I've ever seen you make a post longer than one line. But I guess I'm not super surprised you believe the nonsense burro spouted.


[Edited on November 12, 2021 at 6:30 PM. Reason : No substance ]

11/12/2021 6:29:40 PM

StTexan
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I too am not surprised you have your head in the sand about the state of our electorate. I am def voting dem in 2024 if Trump runs

11/12/2021 6:31:54 PM

rwoody
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You've never read a single one of my posts, clearly


Speaking of my posts here's an interesting one re: trans
https://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=650397&page=22#16599636

[Edited on November 12, 2021 at 6:37 PM. Reason : E]

11/12/2021 6:32:28 PM

StTexan
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Is that twitter post suppose to placate middle america? Or are you just projecting?

11/12/2021 6:46:34 PM

rwoody
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That part was directed at geppetto, an active participant in a discussion, not you.

[Edited on November 12, 2021 at 6:53 PM. Reason : "placate middle America" lmao you're having some other argument I guess]

11/12/2021 6:52:24 PM

StTexan
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Fair enough

11/12/2021 6:53:42 PM

rwoody
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I'll address you to make it clear where I stand: I think of a new presidential election was held tomorrow, Biden VS trump I would be very down on bidens chances.

11/12/2021 6:55:20 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"I too am not surprised you have your head in the sand about the state of our electorate."


Jesus Christ, how far up your ass does your head have to be to not even realize that that's not the subject under discussion?

[Edited on November 12, 2021 at 7:14 PM. Reason : ]

11/12/2021 7:13:42 PM

StTexan
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Oh sorry my democrat friend. Where were you in fucking 2001-04? Most of yall communist ass dems didn’t say shit then while us Moderates were toting the line. And here us moderates are stuck between Manchin and Trump. Gee thanks

11/12/2021 11:17:16 PM

Cabbage
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Wow, instead of actually getting back on topic you just drift further away.

11/12/2021 11:33:59 PM

rwoody
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11/13/2021 12:11:48 AM

StTexan
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^^if i were you i’d say the same thing

11/13/2021 1:06:25 AM

Cabbage
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OK.

I'm just very thankful I'm not you.

11/13/2021 1:26:10 AM

StTexan
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Lol fair enough

11/13/2021 2:30:00 AM

rwoody
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Quote :
"if i were you i’d say the same thing"


This comment makes me chuckle for some reason. "if I were you I'd say what you just said", well, yea I guess?

11/13/2021 11:15:15 AM

Cabbage
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LOL, I'm still not sure what he was actually trying to say with that post or his post before that.

11/13/2021 5:47:37 PM

StTexan
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I guess i just find you and Rwoody so clueless sometimes, i was trying to say if i were you, I’d say the same thing. In other words, if I were as clueless as you, I’d too think i am drifting away. Or something to that effect.

Perhaps I should save comments such as these for the “2024 After Election Democrat Autopsy thread”

I apologize, I will do better in the future. I will try not to be vague, ruin a discussion, etc. Whether you respond or not to this post, I will not respond in this thread for a period of time yet to be determined. I don’t want to discourage others from contributing, and often others have much more thought provoking posts than my quips on why democrats are sucking right now.

11/13/2021 9:21:29 PM

Cabbage
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LOL I'm the clueless one?

Immediately after my post where I clarify:

1 Democrats need to be better at messaging

2 The electorate believes a lot of bullshit about the Democrats due to Republican propaganda

and

3 The whole point of my response to aaronburro's post was to point out that his complaints about Democrats are merely a parroting that same Republican propaganda

You make a comment about having "your head in the sand about the state of our electorate", completely ignoring the fact that I even acknowledged the state of the electorate in point 2.

The state of the electorate was never a topic of debate for me, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't for rwoody, either.

What are you even basing that comment on??

It really looks to me like you've failed to even grasp what either of us are actually saying.

11/13/2021 9:49:18 PM

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