I'm not really interested in your opinions on her per se, but you can certainly voice those as well. How do you feel about Lia Thomas (or trans women in general) competing in sports with females?

[Edited on March 22, 2022 at 12:34 PM. Reason : my pronouns are he/him]

3/22/2022 12:33:29 PM

Save some time
https://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=635130&page=9

3/22/2022 12:35:54 PM

she competed under the current NCAA rules and didn’t of shatter any records like the transphobic bigots swore she would

it also sounds like most of her competitors were fine with her competing

[Edited on March 22, 2022 at 12:52 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2022 12:40:39 PM

^^ thx

^ her competitors may be afraid to voice their concern, for fear of being labeled a transphobe or homophobe. ¯\_(?)_/¯

[Edited on March 22, 2022 at 12:56 PM. Reason : perhaps]

3/22/2022 12:43:27 PM

Somewhere, there is a line where inclusion meets common sense, and I think this is it.

The obvious, and probably only reason to separate women's sports and men's sports is to preserve the competitive spirit. It's a safe bet that there is either no woman (biological sex, assigned at birth) that could ever compete at a professional or collegiate level with their peers in any major sport, save perhaps unique positions (place kicker, hockey goalie, etc) - but even that is highly unlikely. We all know this, and any attempt to argue otherwise is either ignorance or trolling.

I truly believe that, deep down, most people agree that athlete's should compete at their sex that was assigned at birth, with potential exceptions (transition before puberty?)

Yet a small sliver of ultra progressives have labeled people as transphobic if they don't feel that individuals who have undergone puberty as a male, competing with women who were assigned the female gender at birth is completely OK. It's ridiculous for many reasons, one of them being that many transgender people actually have this stance as well.

The bottom line is, we are catering to a very small percentage of people, while in turn affecting a very large percentage of people.

[Edited on March 22, 2022 at 2:04 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2022 2:02:57 PM

Quote :

"affecting a very large percentage of people"

[citation needed]

3/22/2022 2:07:32 PM

but what about womens sports / records

3/22/2022 3:00:53 PM

"but what about the exact subject we're discussing, have we considered that?"

3/22/2022 3:16:58 PM

the idea of course is trans women competing as men are unlikely to break many records.

while eventually, given enough time, trans men competing as women will hold all female records.

natural born females will probably eventually have a problem with this (although they shouldnt) and its going to get worse.

3/22/2022 3:28:08 PM

Quote :

" I truly believe that, deep down, most people agree that athlete's should compete at their sex that was assigned at birth, with potential exceptions (transition before puberty?)"

there’s a pretty evil movement going on right now that is attempting to criminalize transitioning before puberty

and that doesn’t even take into account parents who forbid their kids to transition at any age under 18

3/22/2022 3:32:09 PM

is it acceptable, in the future, when there are more trans swimmers who are better than Lia Thomas... for natural born women to never win again?

3/22/2022 3:40:54 PM

That's a made up scenario that doesn't appear to be anywhere close to reality

3/22/2022 3:45:25 PM

If they identify as women they should be able to compete as such.

It is an interesting intersection between feminists who want to further empower women and see them continue to excel and people who support trans-rights and want to see them be empowered to succeed. I can see some ultra-feminists seeing it as "men" taking away more things from women. It is not, but some do see it that way.

Let's be real, most trans-athletes don't destroy their competition regularly and I seriously doubt most trans-athletes go through all the mental anguish and physical pain of gender reassignment, as well as the shunning and lack of support they get in the world (and in some areas, attempts to criminalize them) just to win a damn NCAA trophy. Do you honestly believe that?

3/22/2022 3:47:06 PM

then why are they so upset when they lose?

[Edited on March 22, 2022 at 3:47 PM. Reason : ^^]

3/22/2022 3:47:14 PM

Quote :

" Let's be real, most trans-athletes don't destroy their competition regularly and I seriously doubt most trans-athletes go through all the mental anguish and physical pain of gender reassignment, as well as the shunning and lack of support they get in the world (and in some areas, attempts to criminalize them) just to win a damn NCAA trophy. Do you honestly believe that?"

that's exactly what the loudest opponents think, but they're mostly afraid to admit it. they think that trans people transition as some part of an evil plan to take trophies away from other athletes

it’s similar to the trope that people in the LQBT community are trying to pull one over on straight people because they are predators

3/22/2022 4:00:03 PM

I have an ultra progressive friend who competes in Iron Mans all over the world, so he's pretty big into elite athletics. He's a huge supporter of the trans movement. Or was, until it affected something that hit home for him.

He's 100% against this, as are other far left folks that comment on his posts. He argues for a third category.

3/22/2022 4:01:30 PM

Trans are less than 1% of population, a 3rd category is not the solution.

It's insane how much news coverage this gets compared to the actual impact. How many trans athletes are there, really? Of those how many are competing at the highest level?

3/22/2022 4:09:15 PM

I'd like to express my serious doubt that any of these questions about Lia Thomas' potential "unfair" advantages has a damn thing to do with fairness. These same people aren't questioning whether the competitors who are rich had an unfair advantage because they could eat better food, receive better training and care, and have a lifetime of swim instruction. Nobody is asking for the rich to be barred from competition and asking for trans people to be barred from competition is not about fairness, it's about making sure they stay marginalized where the people who hate them want them to be.

This "transgender debate" that worries me. It feels a lot like the "Jewish question" or the "Negro problem" of the 20th century. Personhood isn't up for debate.



[Edited on March 22, 2022 at 4:23 PM. Reason : same old song and dance]

3/22/2022 4:22:30 PM

its gonna get ugly.

XX-only chromosome leagues and whatnot.

3/22/2022 4:24:56 PM

Love to submit DNA testing to be sure I get 4th in my high school track meet instead of 5th

3/22/2022 4:32:53 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to express my serious doubt that any of these questions about Lia Thomas' potential "unfair" advantages has a damn thing to do with fairness. These same people aren't questioning whether the competitors who are rich had an unfair advantage because they could eat better food, receive better training and care, and have a lifetime of swim instruction. Nobody is asking for the rich to be barred from competition and asking for trans people to be barred from competition is not about fairness, it's about making sure they stay marginalized where the people who hate them want them to be. This "transgender debate" that worries me. It feels a lot like the "Jewish question" or the "Negro problem" of the 20th century. Personhood isn't up for debate."

this is perfectly written

3/22/2022 4:39:03 PM

rwoody

Quote :

" "affecting a very large percentage of people" [citation needed]"

Do you really require a citation to prove that there are a whole lot of females who are not transgender that play sports?

3/22/2022 5:18:07 PM

Women are, forces arguments sake, 50% of "people", let's say 50% of women take part in competitive sport, down to 25% of people. Of that 25% of people what percentage do think have even competed against a trans woman, much less lost to one?

3/22/2022 5:52:23 PM

Your number of women in competitive sport is at least 275% overestimated

3/22/2022 6:06:58 PM

lets not forget all the men who routinely get their asses kicked by women in 5Ks, etc.

3/22/2022 6:37:39 PM

^^I was trying to be generous

3/22/2022 6:56:30 PM

Maybe some USWNT players should transition to being males so the USMNT might actually win something!

3/22/2022 7:30:10 PM

Let me just say, "Who dat?"

3/22/2022 7:30:24 PM

Quote :

"Women are, forces arguments sake, 50% of "people", let's say 50% of women take part in competitive sport, down to 25% of people. Of that 25% of people what percentage do think have even competed against a trans woman, much less lost to one?"

So far, very minimal. But there are several examples already. However I think this is a great discussion to have, because as gender transition becomes more commonplace (which is a good thing), transgender athletes will become more mainstream.

3/22/2022 7:35:38 PM

So based on your use of "several" I assume you have now backed down from "high percentage of people"

3/22/2022 7:40:19 PM

Worked out well for her...when from ranked something like 465 as a male swimmer to #1 as female.

[Edited on March 22, 2022 at 8:35 PM. Reason : W]

3/22/2022 8:34:58 PM

3/22/2022 8:41:22 PM

Is this the new chief justice nominee?

3/22/2022 9:05:09 PM

she doesnt even try to change her voice. this is bullshit.

3/23/2022 10:52:25 AM

What the fuck are you talking about?




Anyway

Quote :

" I know most won’t read past a headline but please read my veto letter—especially if you disagree with me. The veto will be overridden on Friday and then we will have a special session to fix a few things. Trans sports is a terribly difficult issue. Please be kind to everyone. 1/ https://t.co/5991MF2xqa"

[Edited on March 23, 2022 at 12:19 PM. Reason : E]

3/23/2022 12:18:14 PM

you seem to be wound up a little too tight.

[Edited on March 23, 2022 at 12:31 PM. Reason : in general]

3/23/2022 12:30:50 PM

you seem to be a transphobe?

3/23/2022 12:48:55 PM

wrong.

[Edited on March 23, 2022 at 1:02 PM. Reason : also she isnt the new chief justice nominee]

3/23/2022 12:57:20 PM

I vote 3rd category

[Edited on March 23, 2022 at 1:35 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2022 1:34:16 PM

I'm wound up to tight, says the guy pissed off about someone's voice

3/23/2022 2:12:29 PM

the context clue this time was me making a stupid remark after someone elses stupid remark.

3/23/2022 2:59:12 PM

Quote :

"this is perfectly written"

It's also, verbatim, from a trending twitter post.

But on to the topic at hand...

My gut tells me that there is something wrong with AMAB athletes competing against AFAB athletes. My brain reminds me that my gut has previously told me that:

-Gay marriage is unnatural
-Gay adoption is bad for children
-Affirmative action is reverse racism
-Islam is out to get us
-Poverty is poor peoples' fault
-Many other bad, stupid things that are on the wrong side of history and morality

So when I encounter a thorny topic like this, where I lack expertise (sports and trans issues are waaaaay outside my bailiwick) and where there appear to be cogent arguments for both positions, I ask myself this:

What is my gut telling me, and is it telling me to be on the side that has nazis?

If the answer to the second part is "Yes," I just assume my gut is being wrong and stupid again.

So, without fully internalizing the entire debate, I've decided I'm just fine with trans women competing in womens sports.

3/23/2022 3:18:32 PM

^^you hardly post and you expect people to just know when a dumb comment is intended as a joke?

3/23/2022 3:31:53 PM

Quote :

" My gut tells me that there is something wrong with AMAB athletes competing against AFAB athletes. My brain reminds me that my gut has previously told me that: -Gay marriage is unnatural -Gay adoption is bad for children -Affirmative action is reverse racism -Islam is out to get us -Poverty is poor peoples' fault -Many other bad, stupid things that are on the wrong side of history and morality So when I encounter a thorny topic like this, where I lack expertise (sports and trans issues are waaaaay outside my bailiwick) and where there appear to be cogent arguments for both positions, I ask myself this: What is my gut telling me, and is it telling me to be on the side that has nazis? If the answer to the second part is "Yes," I just assume my gut is being wrong and stupid again. So, without fully internalizing the entire debate, I've decided I'm just fine with trans women competing in womens sports."

this is the way

3/23/2022 3:44:12 PM

Lia is a true warrior and should be an inspiring role model for all young women out there. She taught them that they too can become an NCAA champion. All they need to do is be born a male, go through puberty as male, train/compete for another decade as a male, be pretty good but not quite as good as your top-tier male counterparts, then chop your cock off, take some pills for a year and bam! You’re now NCAA womens’ champion material!

[Edited on March 23, 2022 at 3:48 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2022 3:46:45 PM

https://ctmirror.org/2019/07/22/transgender-issues-polarizes-womens-advocates-a-conundrum/

I thought this was a good read compared to the usual drivel.

3/23/2022 4:19:24 PM

GrumpyGOP nah those are my words. Can you show me the trending Tweet I potentially plagiarized? I might be echoing other arguments or ideas that are circulating but it's not verbatim and I'm not really aware of the other comments. That shit's just how I feel.

Or maybe I'm a Soros bot because I'm one of many people who disagrees with you. Your party is into blaming the boogieman, so that's probably it.

3/23/2022 7:52:12 PM

I mean I think you're right for distrusting your gut (wish it told you the right position to take, but it seems like you've figured out how to live with it.) But also please don't accuse me of plagiarism.

3/23/2022 7:56:06 PM

^^Maybe THEY'RE plagiarizing YOU!!!

I know you took a lot of time off TWW, but GrumpyGOP is now reformed and reflective. His moniker no longer fits. Well, except the grumpy part. AND, he was on Jeopardy. AND he won!

3/23/2022 8:12:21 PM

I fly off the handle when accused of plagiarism since writing is my profession.
But I took some calming breaths.

Glad to hear about the reform and congrats on the Jeopardy win.

I stand by my argument and I have read about this topic on social media. The ideas didn't spring whole from my head, they're a synthesis of other things I've read. I think that's how thought works.

here's a Tweet I did read and I think the one being referenced:


[Edited on March 23, 2022 at 8:25 PM. Reason : formatting ]

3/23/2022 8:25:22 PM