Page 8

Quote :

"On the topic of whoever thinking Oberyn wouldn't use poison -- in their defense they haven't even once referred to him as the Red Viper in the show, nor have they referenced the sandsnakes, or the affinity for them to use poison or anything like that. He was just introduced in the last episode and he just seems like a pissed off dude who is probably a good fighter. I am really looking forward to the fight between him and the Mountain though."

yeah, I wasn't trying to knock her, makes sense in terms if what we've seen in the show, just thought it was funny from a book readers perspective, knowing what we know

[Edited on April 14, 2014 at 9:39 AM. Reason : $$$]

4/14/2014 9:37:50 AM

Also, if you look, the clues are all there -- mainly Olenna talking about what kind of monster would kill a man at his own wedding and stuff. Also, the missing part of Sansa's necklace but then again you'd have to be a pretty good detective to work that into things.

[Edited on April 14, 2014 at 9:48 AM. Reason : ]

4/14/2014 9:47:50 AM

i was looking for the piece of the necklace to go missing but didn't see it. i need to watch again more closely.

4/14/2014 9:51:00 AM

Yeah, I think they did a great job with that part. You can actually see when she palms the piece in her hand, and then you can see that one is clearly missing from the necklace

4/14/2014 9:54:10 AM

Also, dude in the movie thread totally read a spoiler or something and is now claiming to come up with the Olenna/necklace theory himself.

4/14/2014 10:07:55 AM

^ha, exactly what I was just thinking

4/14/2014 10:09:21 AM

I dunno, it seemed pretty obvious to me. But I was expecting it so I obviously can't watch it the same way as them

4/14/2014 10:13:49 AM

4/14/2014 10:24:16 AM

Quote :

"Also, LOL at Loras and Oberyn checking each other out."

loved that

4/14/2014 10:45:48 AM

Now we get to see brother and sister do it in front of child kings corpse.

4/14/2014 10:46:26 AM

it was also period sex... so I hope they totally skip that

4/14/2014 10:50:04 AM

It has been a while since I've read the books but to Shrike - The whole plan is put in place to get the Tyrell's in power. With Joffrey out of the way it gives them a king (Tommen) who they can control, which then results in everything that happens with Cersei.

4/14/2014 1:47:56 PM

Yeah but, the Tyrells wouldn't be the ones controlling Tommen unless they killed Cersei and Tywin as well. Their position of power doesn't change much, no matter which Lannister they marry Margaery too. From the books, it's pretty clear that Littlefinger was the mastermind behind the whole thing and Olenna went along with it because she didn't want her granddaughter abused by that psychopathic little shit. Littlefinger's reasons aren't exactly clear, but it's all part of his overarching goal to sow discord and create opportunities to elevate his status.

4/14/2014 2:08:32 PM

I think Olenna knew that it would be the Tyrells in a better place too. Wasn't it the Tyrells who orchestrated everything that happened with the church and Cersei? Having Tyrion take out Tywin was a lucky break but they knew getting Joffrey out of the way would give them more power.

If I recall aren't there a few scenes where Cersei does try and get Tommen do make a few orders and he listens to Margaery instead?

4/14/2014 2:25:39 PM

Quote :

"Yeah but, the Tyrells wouldn't be the ones controlling Tommen unless they killed Cersei and Tywin as well."

Even with Cersei & Tywin living, the whole realm is better off with Tommen as king rather than psychotic Joffrey

4/14/2014 2:55:11 PM

^^Yeah, Margaery definitely has much more influence over Tommen than she could have ever had with Joffery

[Edited on April 14, 2014 at 2:56 PM. Reason : $$$]

4/14/2014 2:55:44 PM

preferred the chaos of the party through Tyrion's drunkenness in the book to the long drawn out pauses and intense focus

4/14/2014 3:58:46 PM

agreed. also felt like what happens to Dontos is not going to have the same impact to the show watcher. There was always a real air of mystery with their meetings, could he be fully trusted, and in the end you hated what happened to him. here, he'll be in and out in 3 episodes and long forgotten.

4/14/2014 4:09:57 PM

True. I was hoping he'd have a little more screen time, even if he just came in a couple times last season.

4/14/2014 4:18:41 PM

^^^ definitely agree. Still a good episode though.

4/14/2014 4:35:06 PM

In the show thread, LudaChris's next post will be "We haven't seen the Mountain in a while. I saw him in some trailers though, so I predict that he will come back to King's Landing for something. The only way Tyrion can get out of this one is with a trial by combat, so my theory is that Cersei will name the Mountain as her champion and Oberyn will be named as Tyrion's champion and we'll get to see a good fight!"

[Edited on April 15, 2014 at 11:07 AM. Reason : ]

4/15/2014 11:06:34 AM

LudaChris: I haven't read the books, but since they showed dwarf jousting I bet Tyrion escapes and becomes a dwarf jouster and starts to care about his dwarf lady friend. also, i bet he falls into water that gives people greyscale but i bet he totally doesn't get greyscale. It's so obvious.

[Edited on April 15, 2014 at 11:42 AM. Reason : also, greyscale]

4/15/2014 11:41:45 AM

I'm starting to wonder if we are going to see Stonehands again

4/15/2014 11:54:47 AM

coldhands?

4/15/2014 11:58:19 AM

^

4/15/2014 12:00:22 PM

lol, yeah Coldhands.

mashed him and Stoneheart together. Or I had Brandon Lafell in my mind

[Edited on April 15, 2014 at 12:10 PM. Reason : asdf]

4/15/2014 12:10:10 PM

the logistics of Bran's travel north have changed a lot so who knows, but I expect that we see him again

4/15/2014 12:36:27 PM

Before I post something, can we assume that in this thread, everyone is caught up on the storyline in the book? Either that or they just don't care? Can we talk about things that happen in the book past the current season?

4/15/2014 1:17:47 PM

Quote :

"It is understood that this thread may contain spoilers for anyone who has not read all of the books or seen all of the shows, participation in this thread is at the readers own risk! By participating in this thread you waive your right to claim that a post must go in either the BOOK or SHOW threads and further waive your rights to criticize someone for posting a "spoiler""

4/15/2014 1:24:52 PM

So I wonder if the show is going to go the route of having Lysa be the one who poisoned John, on the behest of Littlefinger? I don't remember when in the books this comes in to play, but we have to be getting close, right?

4/15/2014 1:36:17 PM

I imagine it'll be revealed similarly to the book, at the end. There were pictures posted from the set where Littlefinger pushes Lysa out the moon door so we know that scene is in.

4/15/2014 1:45:39 PM

Oh I didn't realize they released pictures of that happening.

4/15/2014 1:47:51 PM

also evident from shots of sansa in the trailers that she and little finger end up in the eyrie. specifically, a quick shot of what appears to be the snow castle scene between sansa and sweet robin.

[Edited on April 15, 2014 at 3:20 PM. Reason : ]

4/15/2014 3:19:43 PM

rjrumfel - do you remember the link to where you saw those pics? i'm interested since i haven't come across them yet

4/15/2014 4:23:03 PM

Absolutely loved the scene with Tyrion and Pod last night.

4/21/2014 8:26:06 AM

yeah I thought that was well done. I thought the scene with Jaime and Cersei having sex in the sept was strange. I haven't read that book in a while, but I thought it was a lot more consensual than what was shown on the show. After all the effort the writers have made to give Jaime a better, "good Lannister" image, I would think that they wouldn't make it look like he was raping Cersei

4/21/2014 8:40:03 AM

Maybe they want to remind us he's still a Lannister monster under it all

4/21/2014 10:25:18 AM

http://www.wired.com/2014/04/game-of-thrones-recap-3/

4/21/2014 11:48:33 AM

Surprised there isn't more discussion about the Jaime/Cersei rape scene since it's one of the biggest changes from the book yet. That scene was all kinds of fucked up in the book, but it wasn't rape, Cersei resisted at first but then definitely asked for it. It's almost like they filmed that scene and then cut out the parts where she stopped resisting. Very odd choice, didn't like it.

4/21/2014 1:33:00 PM

I mean she opposed, but it seemed to me that she wasn't resisting him that much.

I thought she wanted to fuck him again, so I thought that was the point.

4/21/2014 1:34:44 PM

they added the rape to fit the theme of reminding us not to like characters. as soon as people start to like the hound he steals the guys silver, people briefly like littlefinger for saving Sansa then he shoots Dontos in the face, we sympathized with the wildlings and like ygritte so we see her shoot a dude in the head and watch the wildlings brutaly attack a village, jamie has been likable lately so they add some rape

4/21/2014 1:46:27 PM

All those other things are consistent with both the book and shows portrayals of those characters thus far. Jaime is pretty clearly not a rapist though, and even went out of his way to stop or punish rape multiple times. He got his hand cut off to stop Brienne's rape and executes the Mountain's men who raped Pia. He talked several times of almost killing Robert for forcing himself on Cersei and hating Aerys for the way he treated Rhaella. They could have picked any number of terrible things that both book and show Jaime would actually do, but instead they picked the one thing he wouldn't. It was a bad choice.

[Edited on April 21, 2014 at 1:56 PM. Reason : :]

4/21/2014 1:53:28 PM

Yeah, turning that into a rape scene pisses me off. Incoming brigades of tumblr feminists talking about rape culture and how it somehow glorifies rape.

4/21/2014 2:05:38 PM

book: she protests, says no, then eventually she moans with pleasure
show: she protests, pushes some, says no, then eventually she moans with pleasure

they really didn't change it that much

4/21/2014 2:08:15 PM

Quote :

"“Hurry,” she was whispering now, “quickly, quickly , now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime.” Her hands helped guide him. “Yes,” Cersei said as he thrust, “my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home .” She kissed his ear and stroked his short bristly hair. Jaime lost himself in her flesh. He could feel Cersei’s heart beating in time with his own, and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined."

I mean, maybe that's what they were going for, but it's not the way it came off. Like I said, it's almost as if they cut out part of the scene just to make it seem more icky.

4/21/2014 2:26:19 PM

you need to read the whole passage, its similar to the scene in The Wolf of Wall Street where its still rape even when she says to hurry.

Quote :

"There was no tenderness in the kiss he returned to her, only hunger. Her mouth opened for his tongue. “No,” she said weakly when his lips moved down her neck, “not here. The septons . . .” “The Others can take the septons.” He kissed her again, kissed her silent, kissed her until she moaned. Then he knocked the candles aside and lifted her up onto the Mother’s altar, pushing up her skirts and the silken shift beneath. She pounded on his chest with feeble fists, murmuring about the risk, the danger, about their father, about the septons, about the wrath of gods. He never heard her. He undid his breeches and climbed up and pushed her bare white legs apart. One hand slid up her thigh and underneath her smallclothes. When he tore them away, he saw that her moon’s blood was on her, but it made no difference. “Hurry,” she was whispering now, “quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime.” Her hands helped guide him. “Yes,” Cersei said as he thrust, “my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home.” She kissed his ear and stroked his short bristly hair. Jaime lost himself in her flesh. He could feel Cersei’s heart beating in time with his own, and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined. But no sooner were they done than the queen said, “Let me up. If we are discovered like this . . .” Reluctantly he rolled away and helped her off the altar. The pale marble was smeared with blood. Jaime wiped it clean with his sleeve, then bent to pick up the candles he had knocked over. Fortunately they had all gone out when they fell. If the sept had caught fire I might never have noticed. “This was folly.” Cersei pulled her gown straight."

-Cersei protests and says no
-Cersei physically resists
-He ignores her pleas and overpowers her
-Cersei submits and wants him to finish quickly, either out of disgust or out of guilt for her desire (rape victims can still become aroused)
-as soon as he is done she pushes him off and says it was folly

they didn't change it much.


[Edited on April 21, 2014 at 2:35 PM. Reason : similar scene in wolf of wall street]

4/21/2014 2:35:33 PM

Quote :

"Surprised there isn't more discussion about the Jaime/Cersei rape scene since it's one of the biggest changes from the book yet. That scene was all kinds of fucked up in the book, but it wasn't rape, Cersei resisted at first but then definitely asked for it."

Keep in mind this was a Jamie POV chapter, not a Cersei one. In all likelyhood the depiction in the show is much more accurate.

4/21/2014 2:38:35 PM

in the books, I always saw it as her being uncomfortable with the venue and her period that leads to her initial "no"

whereas on the show, Jamie clears the whole room first and there's a lot more forceful fighting and "No!"ing... in addition to the earlier scene from last week where we see her rebuff his sexual advances

in the book, this is the first time Jamie and Cersei have seen each other since he gets back, so maybe she's been horny this whole time... but on the show, she clearly doesn't want to have sex with him for some reason

the director of the episode said he intended it to end up being consensual, but it did not look that way at all

[Edited on April 21, 2014 at 2:51 PM. Reason : ,]

4/21/2014 2:50:13 PM

Also, keep in mind that since he's lost his hand, he's probably had a lot harder time taking care of himself in Cersei's absence

4/21/2014 4:41:23 PM

late to the party but, yeah, Jamie certainly did not straight up rape Cersei in the books like he did in the show. also not a fan of making the wildlings out to be these murderous cannibals.

[Edited on April 21, 2014 at 10:01 PM. Reason : .]

4/21/2014 9:59:10 PM