Jesus fucking christ... I watched the first half of this shitfest at a bar and no one was paying attn (of course)..

But this is sorry.

0-0 would be a great result at this point.

[Edited on August 20, 2008 at 11:35 PM. Reason : jesus lewis... stich him up...]

8/20/2008 11:34:44 PM

jesus lewis got fucking murdered

oh shit, i didnt even see that elbow, what a douche bag. Lewis looks like hes dead. this is classic guat soccer.

[Edited on August 20, 2008 at 11:37 PM. Reason : s]

8/20/2008 11:36:58 PM

Boca!

Really not deserved, but I'll take it...

[Edited on August 20, 2008 at 11:56 PM. Reason : good job tourette's tim... bullshit guatamalans...]

8/20/2008 11:43:18 PM

a nice little kick to the face, i would beat the shit out of ruiz

8/20/2008 11:56:38 PM

Howard has asserted himself as our #1 and really one of the team leaders... I love to see it because he is a pretty likable guy.

8/21/2008 12:03:28 AM

fight fight fight

8/21/2008 12:09:31 AM

man, fuck them...

not as satisfying as beating the mexicans, but this was a bigtime win...

8/21/2008 12:10:15 AM

HOW THE HELL DID RUIZ NOT GET EVEN A YELLOW CARD TONIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE IS THE DIRTIEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD!

8/21/2008 12:11:43 AM

yea for real, every time i see guatemala play, i hate them more and more. ruiz is one of the dirtiest players out there and the entire team is classless

8/21/2008 12:12:08 AM

-Boca is the easy choice for MOTM
-Ruiz is a dirty fuck face
-Timmy again showing why he's the man
-is there anyway Michael Bradley gets the full 90 if anybody else was our coach?
-Bob is such a shit coach -- we were getting hammered for the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half and he wasn't going to change a damn thing until the red card, and that was only to bring on a defender to replace Cherundolo -- he never makes proactive coaching moves, he just waits for a goal by either team or a card and reacts accordingly, I hate that shit
-and again, Donovan disappears in a big game -- there are so many times when I want to start liking him but he's so inconsistent to be our best player, I just hope when Adu starts making the starting XI, he actually shows up every game

8/21/2008 12:13:02 AM

^^^ at least Howard made it clear he wouldn't take any of that bitches shit...

still amazing that Tim got a yellow in that exchange and not Ruiz..

^ I didn't think that Michael Bradley was THAT bad tonight... but I actually like him and think he is a big part of our future...

[Edited on August 21, 2008 at 12:14 AM. Reason : just me w/ bradley?]

8/21/2008 12:13:27 AM

I now officially hate Guatemala just as much as Mexico! That was our toughest simi-final game, so we are sitting good.

8/21/2008 12:17:40 AM

I like him just fine, but Bradley gets so many minutes in that defensive midfield compared to all the other options, and he has never really impressed me that much in a US shirt


but now that I think about it, he probably took off Mastroeni because of the yellow card but if you look at our last couple of games, Bradley has played way too many minutes IMO compared to all the other options we have

8/21/2008 12:17:58 AM

i think bradley kinda faded out of the game tonight, but hes a real promising talent. I would much rather have him in there than some of our older guys. Hes only like 21 and is getting all that european experience so i think hell end up being great in our midfield

8/21/2008 12:19:59 AM

These games are a waste. No other region has such a drawn out, ridiculous qualifying process for the top teams. Due to the gap in class and the dirty soccer culture of Central American nations, the previous 3 (not the 4th, if by play-in) qualifying teams should just get a bye to the final round of qualifying.

Make no mistake, I love to see the US go down there and drop a fat turd on these dirty, good for nothing teams, but something needs to be changed. Players who actually have futures are risking life and limb against these players who, when outclassed, resort to extremely physical play which borders on intent to injure very often. The referees almost never have control of the games played in Central American locales. On top of that, many Europe-based players are missing training/fixtures with quality competition.

8/21/2008 10:39:22 AM

^There are some crappy teams in Africa and Asia too. I have no problem with the current format for CONCACAF.

8/21/2008 11:21:11 AM

man Guatemala was pissing me off....I couldn't play against anyone like that without "accidentally" breaking a nose.

8/21/2008 12:00:16 PM

Terrible game last night. Terrible Ref, Terrible field, Terrible lighting. The US got bullyed the whole game and we were the ones getting a majority of the cards. Guess its easy for a Ref from Suriname to side with the tiny Guat's

8/21/2008 12:19:22 PM

I jumped up out of my seat and was pumping my fists in the air when Boca scored that goal.

8/21/2008 2:15:08 PM

^ me too, I jumped up, gave a fist pump, and said hell yes!

most of the US WCQ run together unless it's a Mexico game or something but I'll definitely remember this game for a while

oh and

Quote :

"These games are a waste. No other region has such a drawn out, ridiculous qualifying process for the top teams. Due to the gap in class and the dirty soccer culture of Central American nations, the previous 3 (not the 4th, if by play-in) qualifying teams should just get a bye to the final round of qualifying."

I totally agree except I'd like to see them expand the final round to 8 teams instead of 6 with a home-and-away like is now, top 3 from previous WC automatically qualify, the other 5 are decided by the same tournament style we had to go through against Barbados

[Edited on August 21, 2008 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

8/21/2008 4:49:12 PM

^The problem is the final group would be 14 games with that format and they would still have to play all of the other games while leaving room for teams to play with there clubs.

8/21/2008 5:21:21 PM

^ we already play 10 in the final round, and 6 in this round, and we played two against Barbados

10+6+2 = 18

18 > 14

8/21/2008 9:04:33 PM

^But the teams that would make it from the first round to the finals would have to play 22 games. 14 games in one year when there is a Gold Cup and Confederations Cup is a lot of games. Having 10 games per team in the final group is enough.

8/21/2008 10:03:53 PM

I'm not suggesting all 32 other teams play a tournament, there could be byes and seeding and multiple rounds of tournaments

say for example, the teams ranked 4-8 (which would be taken from the final round competitors from the previous WCQ if it was expanded to 8) would start in the round before the final round -- they would only have to play the home-and-away against whoever qualified in the earlier tournament-style round

so basically, the suckier you are, the more games you play --- for most of the teams that could make a World Cup anyways, this would be 16 games, and for the fringe teams, it would probably end up being 20 or 22 games, but they would have to play 20 anyways in the current set-up if they had to go through all the rounds

its the same amount of games and involves more games with the best team in the region... and isn't that what qualifying is all about?

8/22/2008 8:34:20 AM

Yeah, but at what point does it become unfair to the teams that are attempting to qualify?

8/22/2008 9:19:57 AM

I dont think it is unfair. Its a pretty common concept that can be compared to double elimination brackets. If you have a winner's bracket starting with 32, the teams that take first or 2nd only play 5 games (not including a possibly bye). Someone/a team that loses in the first round, and still wants to finish in the top 4 has to partake in 8 games/matches whatever. Now assume a top seed had a bye because there were, say 30 teams in this 32 bracket, they could play 4 games and win as opposed to someone's 8 possible games to take 3rd - twice as much.

And no, I am NOT proposing a tournament, merely showing examples of formats that give a # of games advantage to the good teams and make it harder for the weaker teams. I havent thought about what I would do to make it better but the long qualification process does kind of drag and I am afraid of injuries.

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 9:38 AM. Reason : ]

8/22/2008 9:35:37 AM

I just don't think the system is messed up enough at this point to justify creating a new format. The smaller teams still have to play more games and are still given a decent opportunity to qualify and the larger teams are given the easier road. I think the 2 clearly best teams qualify every go-around and then there is room for an up-and-comer every 4 years like a Canada, Honduras, T&T with a half spot for another opportunity to qualify. CONCACAF does a good job of getting the best teams to the World Cup while still giving all teams an equal chance to qualify, which is exactly the job it is supposed to do. There's not really any justification to change it because it would create a wider gap between lower teams and upper teams that doesn't need to exist. Injuries happen in sports, you just have to deal with them...

8/22/2008 10:05:45 AM

Quote :

"CONCACAF does a good job of getting the best teams to the World Cup while still giving all teams an equal chance to qualify"

I totally disagree

look at the current round:

1. US, Guatemala, Cuba, T&T
2. Mexico, Honduras, Jamaica, Canada
3. Costa Rica, El Salvador, Haiti, Suriname

Look at the discrepancy in the pairings of these groups -- look at how stupid group #3 is compared to #2

2 teams out of Honduras, Jamaica, and Canada won't qualify and there probably wouldn't be any arguments if they were all included in the final 6

8/22/2008 10:15:52 AM

yup, COMPLETELY agree there. Someone in group 2 is going to get screwed while someone in group 3 should thank their lucky stars. of course the 2nd place team from group 3 will get walloped in the next round but still.

If you look at the rankings used to start this CONCACAF round, and tally them up for each group (with a lower school technically meaning a harder bracket/higher ranked teams) you are looking at a 26(2,10,8,6) for group A, a 23 (1,4,7,11) for group B and a 37(3, 20, 9, 15) for group C.

To look at it another way, the lowest seeded team in group 2 is an 11, and there is an 15 and a 20 in group C, with the 2nd highest seeded team in group 3 being a 9, almost as low as the lowest team in group 2, and even closer to the lowest in our group, group A.

Ive said since I saw these pairings that either Jamaica or Canada is going to get screwed out of a chance in the last round probably, while someone like Haiti will be present. When you set up this stuff, this round needs to be seeded so that, if everything plays out within each group how it should on paper, the best 6 teams make it through to the final round. As it stands now, in Group 2, the 2 and 4 ranked teams should get in, leaving the 7th ranked team out (who is, on paper, the 6th best team left).

I would have seeded it:

Mexico 1
Jamaica 7
Cuba 8
El Salvador 20

US 2
T+T 6
Haiti 9
Suriname 15

Costa Rica 3
Honduras 4
Guatemala 10
Canada 11

That leaves each group competitive within itself and fair overall. Ignoring the 4th teams in each pool, the top 3 teams total up to 16, 17, 17 respectively and 36, 32, 28 with all 4 teams (notice how the 1st place team has the weakest 4th tier team and the 3rd place has the highest 4th tier team). If everyone plays to their paper stats 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 make it through

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 10:43 AM. Reason : ]

8/22/2008 10:30:22 AM

So you're disappoint that the qualifying format potentially won't let the #7 team into the group of 6 best teams? What are the chances that either Jamaica or Canada would end up qualifying anyway? 20% at best? Mexico and USA will no doubt take the top 2 spots. That leaves 1 spot open for sure and another half spot. Some marginal teams are gonna miss out on the final group. That's the whole point of qualifying. If those teams aren't good enough to finish top 2 out of a group of 4, why would you want to give them a chance to play in the final stage. The teams that play the best will make it in the end.

You didn't see people arguing against the UEFA Championship qualifying simply because England failed to make it. That's because Europeans understand how competitive soccer is... something that has been fairly lacking in CONCACAF. The way you guys are arguing makes it sound like you just want the top 6 teams to automatically advance to the final group.

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 10:46 AM. Reason : ]

8/22/2008 10:43:00 AM

Quote :

"The teams that play the best will make it in the end."

I agree but it is still not a fair setup regardless. And they were #7 to start but they are the 6th best team left on paper, thus it should at least be set up to start with that, if they perform to paper they make the last round. Right now they can beat every team in their bracket they are supposed to beat and still not make it even though they are the 6th best team left. If you're going to seed teams, use them correctly.

Quote :

"The way you guys are arguing makes it sound like you just want the top 6 teams to automatically advance to the final group."

Not at all! What Im saying is that it is not setup to even allow that. A tournament is NOT setup correctly if there is no possible way for the top 6 teams to all make the next round. Thats fact and there is no way I am changing it. Of course it normally doesnt happen to paper and there are upsets. But you are doing something wrong if it is impossible for the best 6 teams left to not make the final round of 6 before the final round even starts. Period.

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 10:49 AM. Reason : ]

8/22/2008 10:45:38 AM

Some groups are harder than others. It happens in EVERY SINGLE multi-group tournament. It's simply a fact that has to be dealt with. If either of those teams wants to make it badly enough, then they should make it a priority to play well enough to advance.

8/22/2008 10:48:33 AM

no kidding. Even with the best possible matchups at the moment that I put together there are weaker and stronger brackets. The idea is cascading competitiveness from the team with the highest seed down to the lowest of the "high" seeds in any tournament. The idea is not equal brackets overall.

And ill once again refer to the last paragraph in my previous post. It is tournament pairings 101 right there. I agree that seeds are nothing more than that, and usually dont hold true in a tournament. But if you have them, use them correctly. In a 12 man field, the top seed should always get the 6th and 12th best teams in their bracket, while the 2nd seed gets the 5th and 11th, and 3rd gets thet 4th and 10th with the others split up.

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 10:56 AM. Reason : ]

8/22/2008 10:51:23 AM

I just don't see what the big deal is. So a couple of teams that probably won't even qualify got slightly unfavorable seedings. That's still no excuse if they fail to qualify. If they aren't good enough to finish top 2 out of 4 then there's no way they'll finish top 3 out of 6.

8/22/2008 10:57:27 AM

IMStoned420

you're okay with the qualifying because the US is not that #6 or #7 team that is getting screwed by the uneven groups in this round... we're going to qualify no matter what so who gives a shit

it wasn't that long ago where we were one of those teams, so I'm questioning the qualifying using one of those team's perspectives. Just imagine if we were Canada this year and we had to go through that tough ass group to qualify and we weren't even in the final round yet and you look over at C and Costa Rica is getting a cakewalk to the final round. I think Canada will be steadily improving every qualifying campaign and every World Cup that approaches, if the system is flawed then like it is now, there may not be a chance for them to prove that they can qualify past Costa Rica or T&T if they're stuck in groups like they're in now.

8/22/2008 10:59:43 AM

If they can't qualify past Honduras and Jamaica then they have no legitimate argument that they would have been able to make it anyway. I don't really care if "it's not fair." If they want to qualify then they need to play better. That's all there is to it.

8/22/2008 11:02:22 AM

Its not a big deal, but I still think a sanctioning body should handle stuff fairly. The 6th best team shouldnt be discarded and treated like its not a big deal if they are getting screwed in this round simply because they are not expected to qualify. Every team left deserves their the same shot based on their results so far and their seeding. You have to set these things up objectively. Im sure you have seen wild card teams in sports make good runs. I suppose in that case, that 2nd or 3rd place team from some division should have been ignored because they wouldnt have been a factor in the next round?

I understand what you are saying, and its not a big deal, but it just bothers me that it seems like they put no effort into keeping it fair.

Quote :

"That's all there is to it."

its not though. If the 1, 3, 4 team were all in one bracket (i know they separate 1-3 but im just using an exmaple) would you think it was fair that either the 3 or 4 was probably going home when they both would have VERY strong bids for being a qualifying team in the next round if things were seeded fairly? Draws play a much bigger role in sports than you are thinking. It is not always as simple as "play well and youll get what you deserve"



[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 11:07 AM. Reason : ]

8/22/2008 11:04:02 AM

I don't see why you're against giving the best teams in the region an equal chance to qualify for the WC

one of the few ways the US can get better (because we won't send good teams to friendlies or take tournaments other than the GC seriously) is if the level of Concacaf improves, which means bigger countries like Canada need to be involved moreso than minnows like Suriname and Haiti. The better the Canada's and Honduras's are, the better we are.

8/22/2008 11:08:15 AM

Quote :

"I don't see why you're against giving the best teams in the region an equal chance to qualify for the WC"

Because sometimes the best teams don't play the best. I don't feel like a marginal team should have it easier just because they're perceived as being one of the best. The teams are set up the way they are because of the performances they've put into the tournament so far.

^^ The example of 1,2,3,4 being in the same group is irrelevant because that will never happen. If that did happen, THEN I would advocate changing the system, but as it is right now there is no need to do that.

8/22/2008 12:00:57 PM

okay, CONCACAF uses Fifa world rankings to seed for qualifying

if they had kept the seeds for this group draw and done it fairly, allocating the worst ranked to the best, and so forth and so on, it would look like this

A: US (2), T&T (6), Haiti (9), Suriname (15)
B: Mexico (1), Jamaica (7), Guatemala (10), El Salvador (20)
C: Costa Rica (3), Honduras (4), Cuba (8), Canada (11)

they way it is now, if you look at their seeds:

A: US (2), T&T (6), Cuba (8), Guatemala (10)
B: Mexico (1), Honduras (4), Jamaica (7), Canada (11)
C: Costa Rica (3), Haiti (9), Suriname (15), El Salvador (20)

How is it fair that the worst of the three seeded teams gets the way easier draw? I don't really like seeding by FIFA world rankings anyways because they're gay... I would find a different way to seed -- some kind of combination of Gold Cup qualification/results and previous WC qualification/results

8/22/2008 12:46:35 PM

Quote :

"20-man squad for the USA's World Cup qualifiers Sept. 6 at Cuba and Sept. 10 vs. T&T in Bridgeview, Ill.: GOALKEEPERS: Tim Howard, Brad Guzan. DEFENDERS: Carlos Bocanegra, Oguchi Onyewu, Heath Pearce, Frankie Hejduk, Danny Califf, Steve Cherundolo*, Michael Orozco, Marvell Wynne. MIDFIELDERS: DaMarcus Beasley, Michael Bradley, Ricardo Clark, Maurice Edu, Eddie Lewis, Sacha Kljestan. FORWARDS: Brian Ching, Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, Eddie Johnson. *suspended for Cuba game "

Same ol shit from BOBBY. Add Dempsey to the Johnson list of the "don't do a damn thing for multiple games for country and club = guaranteed call-up" and Kenny Cooper must've had sex with Bradley's wife

8/29/2008 9:19:06 AM

A little help clearing this up...

FIFA.com shows tomorrow's USA v Cuba game on Sept 6th at 7:11pm

BUT, the only TV coverage I can find is ESPN on Sept 7th at 1:30pm.

Are there any LIVE feeds? Or is seeing a replay on Sunday the only option?

9/5/2008 11:44:28 PM

Saturday 8:00pm et ESPN Classic & Galavision.

9/6/2008 12:26:26 AM

9/6/2008 1:35:10 PM

Starting lineup:

--------------Howard------------------
Hejduk----Onyewu---Boca--------Pearce
--------Bradley-------Edu-----------
Dempsey------------------Beasley----------
--------Donovan------Ching-----------

we should win 3-0

9/6/2008 7:58:26 PM

1-0, Dempsey with the goal right before halftime

boring ass game... only noteworthy items were the goal, a great save off a deflection by Timmy, and some of the lights went out with 5 minutes left

9/6/2008 10:07:27 PM

^It sounded like the field was a mess from what I read. I'm sure that didn't help.

9/7/2008 12:08:57 AM

USA vs T&T 8:00pm et (ESPN2 & Galavision)

9/10/2008 1:29:28 PM

^^ grass was long, but I don't think it was too wet or anything. we lost patience alot and just cranked it up the field alot instead of working it up. Could have been because it was too hot. Landycakes was more or less absent but our D played great. They didn't really have any real chances except for the one set play where howard made the great save.

9/10/2008 1:36:43 PM

yeah, grass was long and they said it was kind of bumpy... wouldn't consider it a 'mess' though. it just wasn't that great of a performance

9/10/2008 1:43:43 PM