Starbucks Barista?

10/18/2012 9:34:25 PM

so we would have more Baristas and fewer shop owners. I'm not sure if it's clear what this world would look like.

10/18/2012 9:39:59 PM

Capitalism's value is in organization, not creativity. It isn't a creative entity.

The creative class will be creative with or without profit motive, capitalism only serves to help market and distribute what the creative class creates.

10/18/2012 10:55:29 PM

^ meh, creativity is only a part of it

When it comes to the USSR, the argument that people had no incentive to work hard is true, but true for a several-fold reason. The financial motive to work (legitimately) hard wasn't there, and the central planning also crushed creativity itself in many ways.

For an income cap, hypothetically, if we're talking about not letting anyone make more than $500k per year, then I agree, whenever someone makes that much money they'll get lazy after that point. But how much value do those people add? That's what I wanted to articulate. Everyone making below the cap still has the same motivation.

10/19/2012 8:57:32 AM

"Guys, there's no motivation to work under Socialism" -bunch of dudes goldbricking

10/19/2012 10:25:45 AM

Quote :

"I'm comparing the regulations of Somalia to what some free-market philosophers would like. It was hyperbole somewhat."

Right, it's a standard canard used to avoid any useful discussion.

Take a state-controlled, war torn shithole and introduce a chaotic government collapse. Twenty years later, hold said shithole up as proof that libertarianism doesn't work. Christ, people. You have to do better than this.

10/19/2012 11:05:03 AM

Can you point us to a society where libertarianism has worked?

10/19/2012 11:16:46 AM

Have to agree with destroyer on this one, the Somalia analogy, to anti-libetarians, is tempting but ultimately a non-starter. There's a certain basic level of development and stability below which no economic system can salvage the state of affairs.

Quote :

"Can you point us to a society where libertarianism has worked?"

The standard go-to that I've seen most libertarians employ is semi-ancient Iceland, which is interesting, but not much more relevant than Somalia for a few reasons: It was essentially a collection of tribes moreso than a decentralized nation-state, and much of the conduct and power relations were governed by an extremely strong patriarchy and rigid religious hegemony. That is to say, they were fairly prosperous and stable, and there was no "State" power to really speak of, but there were other institutional power relations that did essentially what the State would have done but were by no means voluntary or market-based.


[Edited on October 19, 2012 at 11:34 AM. Reason : .]

10/19/2012 11:27:40 AM

I can point to plenty of societies where libertarian principles led to increased prosperity and productivity. Free people are generally happier and more productive. People are less happy and usually miserable when they have a boot on their throat.

There isn't any historical example of an "anarcho-capitalist" or "voluntarist" society, because that's what we are progressing towards. The fact that we haven't had it yet isn't an argument against having it in the future.

10/19/2012 11:32:02 AM

Quote :

"I can point to plenty of societies where libertarian principles led to increased prosperity and productivity."

Again, please do. I'd seriously like to know.

10/19/2012 12:16:53 PM

libertarianism != freedom.

10/20/2012 12:36:34 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#Diagnosis

Quote :

"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines narcissistic personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as: A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: 1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) 2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love 3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) 4. Requires excessive admiration 5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations 6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends 7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others 8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her 9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes"

Relevant.

10/20/2012 12:55:19 AM

Quote :

"Can you point us to a society where libertarianism has worked?"

Literally... the entire world

10/20/2012 1:27:36 PM

so, none then

10/20/2012 1:44:26 PM

He is googling it right now! Hold up!

10/20/2012 1:59:27 PM

Quote :

"In 30 of 36 comparisons between countries at similar levels of economic development, socialist countries showed more favorable PQL [physical quality of life] outcomes"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2430906

10/20/2012 2:02:34 PM

Quote :

"so, none then"

Exactly, well put.

Wait, what?

10/20/2012 2:57:08 PM

On the other hand, there are several examples of Socialism that work well.

10/20/2012 4:03:21 PM

There are no examples of where socialism has worked well. You still think that socialism means a market economy with a dash of welfare, so that's where the confusion comes in.

The economies where people have been made relatively "free" have done well. The United States is not a "free market". It's probably one of the most convoluted systems out there. Not to mention, it doesn't count as a free market when you strong arm other countries around.

10/20/2012 4:26:42 PM

Germany, Japan, and the U.K.

Suck on that.

[Edited on October 20, 2012 at 4:58 PM. Reason : ^ Socialism by today's standards. But who cares what you label it, it is more for the ppl]

10/20/2012 4:32:10 PM

[Edited on October 20, 2012 at 5:51 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2012 5:51:34 PM

Those are your examples for socialism? Do you not understand what a market economy is?

100% of the progress the human race has seen is from people engaging in mutually beneficial, voluntary (free) exchanges. Anything else is a drag on progress.

10/20/2012 7:30:26 PM

ITT people think free market capitalism = corporate cronyism plutocracy???

10/20/2012 7:45:44 PM

Good Lord @ you people.

Both socialism and some libertarian utopia are pipe dreams and will never be viable.

10/20/2012 8:24:32 PM

Quote :

"Both socialism and some libertarian utopia are pipe dreams and will never be viable."

"An economy not based on slave labor in the United States is a pipe dream and will never be viable" - some guys in the 1800s

When trying to determine what kind of government we should have (or not have), you shouldn't decide based on what seems "realistic" or "practical". You don't know what the world is going to look like when you remove the gun from the equation. No one can know that. You can know that using force against those that have not shown aggression towards anyone is wrong, though.

10/20/2012 9:42:52 PM

I thought you said that taxation is slavery?

10/20/2012 10:42:02 PM

Taxation is not slavery. They are two different words. They are both similar in that they force people to do things that they would not otherwise do on their own accord.

10/21/2012 12:20:01 AM

So taxation s slavery when you're being hyperbolic, but not when you're being hyperbolic

10/21/2012 8:10:52 AM

whenever it's convenient for whatever political argument he's trying to make.

10/21/2012 9:23:52 AM

Slavery
Taxation
Genetics
Law Enforcement
Taco Bell

All force people to do things they would not otherwise do on their own accord.

But seriously, is anyone still voting for Romney for any other reason than religion?

[Edited on October 21, 2012 at 10:43 AM. Reason : .]

10/21/2012 10:42:40 AM

Quote :

"So taxation s slavery when you're being hyperbolic, but not when you're being hyperbolic"

Is there a particular comment that you're referring to? I really have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Quote :

"Slavery Taxation Genetics Law Enforcement Taco Bell"

Genetics - no one chooses it for themselves, just as no one chooses their own upbringing. I wouldn't say that genetics are the "initiation of force" anymore than a hurricane is. Nature is going to do what it's going to do.

Law enforcement, yes. Taco Bell...I'd be interested to hear you elaborate. Perhaps we can determine if their labeling of certain products as "meat" is questionable or even fraudulent.

Quote :

"But seriously, is anyone still voting for Romney for any other reason than religion?"

When I was still going to church, most of the very fundamentalist people believed Mormonism was a cult. I'm not sure what changed. Christians and Mormons have some distinctly different views. In most evangelical circles, I would bet that Mormons don't pass the litmus test for getting into heaven.

[Edited on October 21, 2012 at 11:16 AM. Reason : ]

10/21/2012 11:06:15 AM

Democrats electing a black Muslim is what changed

10/21/2012 1:11:07 PM

We're all "children of the same god" as Romney said in his last debate.

Didn't Billy Graham remove references to Mormonism being a cult recently, after meeting with Romney?

And I like the democrats coming up with the term "Romnesia."

They're FINALLY using the same tactics against the republicans that the republicans have been using against them.

Between "death panels" "obama care" and branding Obama a socialist, they've had the upperhand in the semantics war.

10/21/2012 1:16:21 PM

Former head of Mossad thinks Romney is a giant bag of shit.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2012/al-monitor/israelsecurityiran.html#ixzz2A2DySOjZ

Quote :

"“Obama does think there is still room for negotiations,” Halevy said. “It’s a very courageous thing to say in this atmosphere. In the end, this is what I think: Making foreign policy on Iran a serious issue in the US elections — what Romney has done, in itself — is a heavy blow to the ultimate interests of the United States and Israel.”"

Quote :

"Romney has been very costly on Russia [...] If you want to create a situation, where the only way to go about things is to go back to the Cold War, that is what is being done here. It’s very dangerous."

I would recommend reading the whole article, but those are the most scathing remarks.

10/22/2012 1:09:13 PM

The Putin remarks were the most

Quote :

""I'm grateful to [Romney] for formulating his stance so clearly, because he has once again proven the correctness of our approach to missile defense problems," Putin told journalists Tuesday. "The most important thing for us is that even if he doesn't win now, he or a person with similar views may come to power in four years. We must take that into consideration while dealing with security issues for a long perspective," he added."

"Oh, shit, you still have crazy people vying for leadership." [slinks out of disarmament talks]

10/23/2012 10:02:15 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/24/romney-campaign-we-still-support-mourdock/?wprss=rss_election-2012

of course he does

10/24/2012 1:36:57 PM

10/24/2012 2:31:17 PM

This whole Romney turning his campaign stops into "relief events" deal is such a joke and screwing over the Red Cross in the process.

Why was it so hard for someone on the Romney team to actually go to the Red Cross website and read that they only want blood and money?

11/1/2012 1:00:04 AM

That would have required Romney admitting that what is actually needed takes precedence over what he thinks is needed. Nothing he's done in his last six years of campaigning has shown him to have that level of awareness.

11/1/2012 7:31:36 AM

Quote :

"Mitt Romney’s hastily organized storm relief event in Ohio on Tuesday highlighted a difficult reality for aid organizations. They’ll take canned goods and supplies, but they’d much rather have cash. The American Red Cross, contacted by ABC News, offered a statement encouraging individuals to donate blood or money, adding that they are grateful for the support from the Romney campaign, and their solicitations of financial donations on behalf of the Red Cross. “The American Red Cross appreciates the support from the Romney campaign and is working with the campaign to process this donation of supplies,” a spokesperson for the organization said. “We are grateful that both the Obama and Romney campaigns have also encouraged the public to send financial donations to the Red Cross. We encourage individuals who want to help to consider making a financial donation or making an appointment to give blood.” The Red Cross and other aid organizations like FEMA have long said that donations of food, clothing and other small in-kind items force them to divert crucial resources away from relief efforts and toward sorting and cleaning donations. Romney told supporters at the rally yesterday that the campaign would deliver the non-perishable food items to a Red Cross facility in New Jersey. The campaign confirmed that their goods are on their way to a warehouse in New Jersey where they will be processed. And the campaign added that they have solicited financial donations from their supporters on Twitter and Facebook and at a rally in Florida today, Romney encouraged supporters to donate to the Red Cross. Romney also made a personal financial donation to the Red Cross as well, the campaign said on Wednesday. They did not specify the amount. The event, which was originally planned as a “victory rally,” morphed into a relief drive after superstorm Sandy devastated parts of the East Cost on Monday night. Romney greeted supporters carrying non-perishable items like canned food and drinks. The campaign said that they had identified a site in New Jersey that would accept the goods, even as they acknowledged that the Red Cross does not solicit the donation of goods due to logistical concerns. “The best way to help a disaster victim is through a financial donation to the American Red Cross,” according to the organization’s website. “Financial contributions allow the Red Cross to purchase exactly what is needed for the disaster relief operation. Monetary donations also enable the Red Cross to purchase relief supplies close to the disaster site which avoids delays and transportation costs in getting basic necessities to disaster victims.” “Because the affected community has generally experienced significant economic loss, purchasing relief supplies in or close to the disaster site also helps to stimulate the weakened local economy,” they add. BuzzFeed reported that campaign staffers spent $5,000 on supplies at Wal Mart before the event to insure there were enough supplies. The campaign confirmed to BuzzFeed that it had contributed supplies to the drive, although they did not specify how much."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/aid-organizations-prefer-cash-to-canned-food/

11/1/2012 7:50:47 AM

Quote :

"... The plan was for supporters to bring hurricane relief supplies to the event and then deliver the bags of canned goods, packages of diapers, and cases of water bottles to the candidate, who would be perched behind a table along with a slew of volunteers and his Ohio right-hand man, Senator Rob Portman. To complete the project and photo op, Romney would lead his crew in carrying the goods out of the gymnasium and into the Penske rental truck parked outside. But the last-minute nature of the call for donations left some in the campaign concerned that they would end up with an empty truck. So the night before the event, campaign aides went to a local Wal-Mart and spent $5,000 on granola bars, canned food, and diapers to put on display while they waited for donations to come in, according to one staffer... As supporters lined up to greet the candidate, a young volunteer in a Romney/Ryan T-shirt stood near the tables, his hands cupped around his mouth, shouting, 'You need a donation to get in line!' Empty-handed supporters pled for entrance, with one woman asking, 'What if we dropped off our donations up front?' The volunteer gestured toward a pile of groceries conveniently stacked near the candidate. 'Just grab something,' he said. Two teenage boys retrieved a jar of peanut butter each, and got in line. When it was their turn, they handed their 'donations' to Romney. He took them, smiled, and offered an earnest 'Thank you.'"

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/the-making-of-romneys-storm-relief-event

11/2/2012 5:10:46 PM

canned food? bottled water? WTF is this, we said we needed HELP, dammit!

11/2/2012 5:15:33 PM

^ Holy shit you are a fucking idiot.

11/2/2012 6:53:05 PM

sick burn bro

insult me again if it makes ya feel good.

11/2/2012 8:57:51 PM

You are stupid as shit.

11/2/2012 10:47:52 PM

people dont have clean water and food.

canned food and bottled water are needed in some areas.

11/3/2012 4:15:00 PM

Brutal Ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZENtH3psXl4

11/3/2012 5:28:39 PM

^so another broken Obama promise?

Brutal?

11/3/2012 10:24:16 PM

^^I was really surprised that people were laughing at that line. Do people think rising sea levels is funny?

11/3/2012 10:32:16 PM

Republicans do, they think science is a funny joke

11/3/2012 11:55:10 PM