and DG would call her out as furthering the conspiracy theory and being part of a losing attitude.

I don't believe in a theory of refs being against/for teams. I believe that the acc refs are 1) horribly inconsistent 2) on most nights just plain bad 3) are biased (per player moreso than per team) if in fact they are watching game film prior to officiating.

I mean, if you add up the Hess deal, the KH sticker deal, and the horrible calls on saturday, I guess I can see some (little) merit to a conspiracy theory, but looking at the entire body of work, it's hard to say that... I think it's just primarily bad officiating, which in the end, hurts the shorter/lesser team more, in most circumstances.

I won't blame the loss on saturday on the refs. I won't blame it on bad decisions on our last 3 possessions. These things didn't happen in a vacuum. Sure, the players have to play and overcome bad officiating, but you cannot divorce these events. The game is played and officiated as a whole - bad officiating and mistakes lost this game. Not one, not the other, both.

[Edited on March 12, 2012 at 1:45 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2012 1:44:53 PM

God it feels so good to have a competent AD now.

+1,000,000 for that response letter

3/12/2012 1:45:11 PM

The refs aren't stupid.

Who would you rather piss off?...Typical state fans who are used to getting screwed or 40 million walmart UNC fans who would go ape shit with an evenly called game. There's no big conspiracy or "black helicopter" shit going on.

3/12/2012 1:51:26 PM

who gives a shit - when unc starts losing due to evenly called games and the shit fans stop going to the games, no one will be there to bitch

3/12/2012 1:54:49 PM

Quote :

"when unc starts losing due to evenly called games"

you say that as if it's about to start happening

3/12/2012 1:57:34 PM

yea, my bad

3/12/2012 2:01:04 PM

Ref's are human. They watch basketball when they aren't ref'ing. Of course they are going to 'lean' towards the Duke's and UNC's - b/c they are usually the best teams year in and year out. Its human nature. I understand them getting some breaks on close calls.

But what the fuck is going on when the head of officiating says that they don't foul much? That's just bullshit. Shouldn't matter what jersey you're wearing - a fucking foul is a fucking foul. Its one thing to inadvertantly call it for UNC due to human nature - but to go into the game knowing you're not going to call much on UNC b/c you don't think they foul much is absolute bullshit.

[Edited on March 12, 2012 at 2:03 PM. Reason : n]

3/12/2012 2:03:21 PM

Quote :

"he's making a mockery of the product conference"

3/12/2012 2:06:08 PM

Quote :

"Ref's are human. They watch basketball when they aren't ref'ing."

i understand that, but he specifically said that they study the teams and specific players' tendencies. therefore, coming into the game, they already know what they'll be looking from who when it comes to fouls. and that's definitely going to create biases.

3/12/2012 2:14:24 PM

^ did you actually read the rest of his post?

3/12/2012 2:15:13 PM

i did, and still felt the need to address that statement.

3/12/2012 2:30:51 PM

Quote :

"God it feels so good to have a competent AD now. +1,000,000 for that response letter"

3/12/2012 2:32:46 PM

Quote :

"Ref's are human. They watch basketball when they aren't ref'ing. Of course they are going to 'lean' towards the Duke's and UNC's - b/c they are usually the best teams year in and year out. Its human nature. I understand them getting some breaks on close calls."

i don't think duke and UNC being some of the best teams year in and year out should be a reason to chalk up refs' failures to acknowledge violations of the rules of the game of basketball to "human nature." i don't understand how you can understand them getting some breaks on close calls, because, as you said

Quote :

"Shouldn't matter what jersey you're wearing - a fucking foul is a fucking foul."

3/12/2012 2:40:00 PM

Quote :

"^ did you actually read the rest of his post?"

Damn you're right. The only way to know if there is a Blue bias in the ACC is if he point blank admits it. HELL, that's as close as he can get to saying the calls are habitually biased.

3/12/2012 2:40:30 PM

Quote :

"Ref's are human. They watch basketball when they aren't ref'ing. Of course they are going to 'lean' towards the Duke's and UNC's - b/c they are usually the best teams year in and year out. Its human nature. I understand them getting some breaks on close calls."

This is seriously the dumbest shit I've seen pertaining to this situation. A referee is supposed to maintain an unbiased opinion for any game he officiates. They should never stereotype players and they should NEVER develop pregame bias of other teams based on their history. They have guidelines and rules for a reason. They are supposed to stay neutral by the very definition of their job. Showing leniency to teams because they are consistently good makes ZERO SENSE unless you are doing so for gambling reasons or because certain teams bring more money to the conference. I firmly believe that the ACC wants UNC and Duke to be continuously successful (in bball) because they bring in money. Duke brings in negative attention every year in the tournament because they are the team that everyone loves to hate. Regardless, people watch their games. UNC is a Walmart retail poster child and one of the most recognizable (if not the most recognizable) college schools in basketball. The more they are successful, the more people watch, and spend money, etc. Bringing Syracuse into the mix will throw a little gasoline on this so I'm interested to see if officiating shifts a little. Regardless, games that UNC and Duke play are no where nearly officiated the same way as the other teams in the conference. I honestly don't see how anyone can argue against this.



Debbie's letter:

Quote :

"I am writing this response today to a group of special Wolfpackers who are passionate about the ‘Pack and who have contacted me. Many of you have voiced a feeling of distrust for the fairness and impartiality of officiating as related to State basketball. I wanted to share with you a few updates of our communications with the ACC office, since that is the single most often voiced question. 1. The Commissioner and I most recently met at the ACC Tournament in Atlanta. Before the Tournament, we talked by phone. 2. Regarding the ejection of two former players at the RBC and the initials of that official being on the shoes of officials throughout the opening game of the ACC Tournament, the Commissioner has heard clearly my concerns regarding these matters. As you know, the official was reprimanded and the Commissioner indicated that neither he nor the ACC director of officials was aware that having the initials on the shoes was going to happen. 3. We have begun addressing the widely held view of officiating inconsistencies in the UNC game and will work with Coach Gottfried on that, once we get to a place where we have the ability to focus on it. Right now, we are preparing the film of missed calls/no calls to send to the Director of Officiating at the ACC for his review and feedback. 4. Coach Gottfried has no recollection of being cursed at by an official during the heat of the tournament game. I understand that two media sources tweeted that this occurred and I know the quote they attributed to the official. We will follow up with each media person to seek further details and then share all of that information with the ACC. 5. I have also addressed other issues with the conference such as the bb gun statement made by an opposing coach and the quote regarding how ACC officials “study team tendencies”, something that was disconcerting to a number of fans and to us. I know you care deeply about your Wolfpack and want you to know that we are expressing our concerns. That is why I wanted to take time to share more detail with you today. I am so pleased that through adversity we have played our way back into the NCAA Tournament where we belong. I am also proud of our dedicated fan base that is made up of terrific Wolfpackers like you. Debbie"

[Edited on March 12, 2012 at 3:15 PM. Reason : letter to fans over the weekend]

3/12/2012 3:07:32 PM

I fucking love Debbie Yow.

3/12/2012 3:14:31 PM

the woman takes shit from no one

it's awesome that we finally have someone to stand up for us

3/12/2012 3:18:32 PM

^^agreed.

3/12/2012 3:18:59 PM

Quote :

"This is seriously the dumbest shit I've seen pertaining to this situation. A referee is supposed to maintain an unbiased opinion for any game he officiates. "

Dude, calm down. I didn't excuse the refs from being biased - but it happens in every league (ask Big 12 teams if Kansas doesn't get all the calls). Go back and read my whole post instead of getting sand in your vagina after the first sentence. I think we're in agreement.

Good teams get calls - it happens all the time. But I don't ever think I've heard a ref say they go into games with the intent of calling less fouls on UNC b/c they 'are coached to not foul'.

3/12/2012 3:27:58 PM

Quote :

"Dude, calm down. I didn't excuse the refs from being biased"

you kinda did. the two halves of that post in question are sort of conflicting. you can't essentially justify the reasons behind why it happens and then say the color of a player's jersey shouldn't dictate a foul call

3/12/2012 3:38:33 PM

Quote :

"NC State is a disease. And I am the cure."

- Karl Hess

Quote :

"The refs let the players play. They let the players determine the outcome of the game. Except Alex Johnson. He's not allowed to determine the outcome of the game. Only Kendall Marshall is."

- Digger Phelps

Quote :

"I want to make this perfectly clear so I'm going to put it in bold print: I hate North Carolina State University with a passion."

- Ron Cherry

Quote :

"Fuck the haters."

- Debbie Yow

3/12/2012 3:41:45 PM

Quote :

"the two halves of that post in question are sort of conflicting. you can't essentially justify the reasons behind why it happens and then say the color of a player's jersey shouldn't dictate a foul call"

winnAR!

3/12/2012 4:47:41 PM

No, there is a difference b/t inadvertant bias (happens in every league in every sport) due to human nature and blatent bias (which is what the ACC head of officiating said). Doesn't matter how much a ref may strive to be perfect it never happens (home team gets more calls, some coaches can 'work' a ref better and get more calls, etc). But here the ACC basically ackknowleged that the ref's look at UNC differently.

Quote :

"Its one thing to inadvertantly call it for UNC due to human nature - but to go into the game knowing you're not going to call much on UNC b/c you don't think they foul much is absolute bullshit. "

[Edited on March 12, 2012 at 4:56 PM. Reason : Its called reading comprehension]

3/12/2012 4:55:21 PM

Quote :

"No, there is a difference b/t inadvertant bias (happens in every league in every sport) due to human nature and blatent bias"

there is no such thing as accidental bias...

[Edited on March 12, 2012 at 4:57 PM. Reason : accidental racists are everywhere then...]

3/12/2012 4:56:19 PM

Quote :

"Good teams get calls - it happens all the time."

Does not compute with:

Quote :

"I don't ever think I've heard a ref say they go into games with the intent of calling less fouls on UNC b/c they 'are coached to not foul'."

It's inconsistent.

You're admitting refs give calls to good teams.... but at the same time declaring refs don't intentionally call less fouls on UNC because they're coached to not foul.

So, refs just give calls to UNC because they're a good team? Because that still doesn't make it OK.


Any way you slice it, it's egregious for any team to "get calls" on any basis other than what is happening right in front of the ref's eyes. Records, prior performance, and uniforms should have absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

3/12/2012 4:56:38 PM

don't forget accidental favoritism...

3/12/2012 4:57:42 PM

Pretty disappointed both that people complained to Debbie about the BB thing and that she acknowledged it. Frankly, I'm glad Roy dislikes us enough to bother making a dumb joke about it.

3/12/2012 5:01:38 PM

I don't really care so much about that as I do the rest of her letter.

3/12/2012 5:02:14 PM

Yeah, it's not so much the specifics of her letter that I got excited about, it's more the fact that she obviously understands, appreciates, and engages her fan base. Given the previous leadership, it's pretty effin' awesome.

3/12/2012 5:04:48 PM

The fact is that good teams seem to get calls all the time. I doubt most refs go into games thinking 'I'm going to screw Directional State University'. I think it happens due to the fact that refs are human and can be biased for or against a team even though they may try to be impartial (hence unintentional bias).

In this case, the ACC came out and said they call things differently for UNC (intentaionl bias).

I really don't get what you have a hard time understanding.

This:

Quote :

"You're admitting refs give calls to good teams.... but at the same time declaring refs don't intentionally call less fouls on UNC because they're coached to not foul. So, refs just give calls to UNC because they're a good team? Because that still doesn't make it OK. "

could not be further from what I actually wrote.

[Edited on March 12, 2012 at 5:19 PM. Reason : ^^^]

3/12/2012 5:16:55 PM

Quote :

"The fact is that good teams seem to get calls all the time"

you're not even using definitive terms while trying to stand on both sides of an argument that is black and white. unless you can quantify that good teams get the calls all the time, you're putting weight on an issue of perception.

Quote :

"I really don't get what you have a hard time understanding."

everyone understands what you're saying. calling fouls based on the color of a jersey shouldn't happen, but it's essentially acceptable because "human nature" dictates that it will happen. you're making excuses for something that is not acceptable under any circumstances and using a term like "human nature" that really means nothing.

[Edited on March 12, 2012 at 5:32 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2012 5:25:02 PM

When did I write that is was acceptable? I just wrote that it happens. In every sport. Regardless of how impartial the ref wants to be. He's human - call it what ever the fuck you want.

But there is a difference b/t good teams getting calls and the ref's basically saying they are going to reward UNC by not calling fouls.

Jesus titty fucking Christ...you people are fucking dense.

3/12/2012 5:36:57 PM

^Solid derailing of the thread. Now, back to DEBBIE YOW. +5 on the letter from her. -1 for not just saying Roy better be careful. We're a bunch of farmers. We have much better aim.

3/12/2012 5:46:52 PM

Quote :

"When did I write that is was acceptable? I just wrote that it happens. In every sport. Regardless of how impartial the ref wants to be. He's human - call it what ever the fuck you want."

saying people are human and will make mistakes is one thing. you're arguing that, because refs are human, they will naturally call a game in favor of good teams because it's like, part of being human. or something. you're basically saying it's acceptable because it's ingrained in the human psyche to officiate a game in favor of a good team, but it's only an outrage when refs blatantly say they do it.

3/12/2012 5:59:56 PM

my mom reads packpride and told me they are saying the letter might be fake?

3/12/2012 11:13:08 PM

tell your mom to stop reading shit

3/12/2012 11:13:50 PM

does your mom read tww? does she know your handle? i guess she knows now?

3/12/2012 11:14:43 PM

i doubt my mom even knows what the internet is

[Edited on March 12, 2012 at 11:17 PM. Reason : kk]

3/12/2012 11:15:27 PM

^^NOPE

it's not my fault ok

[Edited on March 12, 2012 at 11:33 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2012 11:27:04 PM

Well Yow certainly was right on fans caring about officiating

3/12/2012 11:37:35 PM

Quote :

"you're making excuses for something that is not acceptable under any circumstances and using a term like "human nature" that really means nothing."

F

T

W

[Edited on March 13, 2012 at 6:27 PM. Reason : the letter is NOT fake]

3/13/2012 6:27:36 PM

Quote :

"When did I write that is was acceptable? I just wrote that it happens. In every sport. Regardless of how impartial the ref wants to be. He's human - call it what ever the fuck you want."

Since you obviously can't read.

3/13/2012 8:30:22 PM

Quote :

"Who would you rather piss off?...Typical state fans who are used to getting screwed or 40 million walmart UNC fans who would go ape shit with an evenly called game. There's no big conspiracy or "black helicopter" shit going on."

At the end of the game, the refs get paid the same amount regardless of who wins...why should they care how many fans dislike them for it?

(in before conspiracy theory on the refs getting paid under the table)

3/14/2012 1:37:21 AM

^You always protect your cash crop.

3/14/2012 1:41:24 AM

bump for moar monies and new techmologies

Quote :

" The new rights agreement will pay NC State a minimum of nearly $49 million over the 10 years."

Quote :

""Debbie Yow asked us to consider a new business model, and we are joining forces with Learfield Sports to realize her vision. This puts NC State in a strong position for the next decade,” said Capitol Broadcasting Company CEO James F. Goodmon. “For Wolfpack fans, our partnership of 30 years endures."

Quote :

"As part of the increased revenues for NC State, the new rights agreement with Wolfpack Sports Properties will provide funds for new LED Fascia Display technology and other fan enhancements at Carter-Finley Stadium."

+3

3/14/2012 2:26:15 PM

so what is this LED Fascia display? Like the RBC center screen around the bowl?

3/14/2012 3:25:06 PM

I believe so. Will be nice to have ribbon boards on the upper deck

3/14/2012 3:27:37 PM

Quote :

"Joe Giglio @jpgiglio He doesn't get any 'extra' money, just the extra years Joe Giglio @jpgiglio Gottfried's buyout is now $4.5 million Joe Giglio @jpgiglio Mark Gottfried's automatic two-year contract extension helps N.C. State more than him"

+1

[Edited on March 14, 2012 at 3:29 PM. Reason : .]

3/14/2012 3:28:07 PM

yeah.. "helps N.C. State more than him"

that was my thought too.

3/14/2012 3:37:57 PM

Quote :

"At the end of the game, the refs get paid the same amount regardless of who wins...why should they care how many fans dislike them for it?"

ever heard of buying fouls?

3/14/2012 4:35:24 PM