What do you suppose happens to the childs body after the abortion? Do you think they just leave it inside the womans body to decompose? If the mothers health is at risk late in pregnancy she has to deliver the baby. Birth is required, abortion is not. The child being born alive has no adverse effect on the mothers health.

As for children who require life support due to prenatal developmental abnormalities, your making a very large assumption that they will be on life support their entire lives. Some will and in most cases they will die of natural causes soon after birth anyway. Others will get off of life support and go on to live full lives. So which is which? There is no way of telling them apart and even if there were, it's not a justification for killing them.

If you're wondering why "doctors" is in quotes, go read the Hippocratic Oath. Especially the part about doing no harm.

[Edited on March 1, 2019 at 2:28 AM. Reason : Of]

3/1/2019 2:26:08 AM

Yes, those babies with terminal issues will go on to live full lives! Just pray and God will heal them!

3/1/2019 7:35:27 AM

^^ I don't understand your first paragraph. Are you suggesting that mothers' lives aren't saved by abortions?

3/1/2019 8:57:39 AM

VA Gov: in situations where there are severe deformities or a nonviable fetus if birth had started the infant would be delivered and then there would be a discussion between physicians and parents

Pred73: how dare parents decide if their child should be on life support, that nonviable fetus can have a happy healthy life!

3/1/2019 9:22:39 AM

this is the kind of thing that gives erections to sick psychopaths like Pred73 or HCH

Girl, 11, gives birth to child of rapist after Argentina says no to abortion
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/feb/28/girl-11-gives-birth-to-rapists-child-after-argentina-refuses-abortion

Quote :

"An 11-year old girl who became pregnant after being raped was forced to give birth after Argentine authorities refused to allow her the abortion to which she was entitled. The authorities ignored repeated requests for an abortion from the child, called “Lucía” to protect her identity, as well as her mother and a number of Argentine women’s right activists. After 23 weeks of pregnancy, she had to undergo a caesarean section on Tuesday. The baby is unlikely to survive."

3/1/2019 10:09:58 AM

When someone inevitably shoots up a PP or doctor over this is there any recourse for those who are hurt by it? Pence is up at CPAC right now saying explicitly that Democrats support infanticide.

It’s disgusting and dangerous.

3/1/2019 10:49:54 AM

One thing I don’t quite get is, after getting trounced in midterms, mostly by suburban women flipping their votes, the GOP is choosing to run on abortion in 2020 (maybe?? We are still a long way out and they could tack to something else, but there have been a lot of them on this Page in the last month). The optics of old nasty white men trying to control women and their doctors as well as the imminent gaffes (the body can shut the whole thing down, etc), I just don’t see how that can possibly play well.

Is this still an effective wedge issue for the GOP, especially in regards to women?? Is this recent episode of hair-on-fire “ZOMG INFANTICIDE” actually a focused, poll-tested strategy?, or is it the GOP just falling back into a well worn rut after some states produced some legislation?

3/1/2019 11:36:35 AM

Base consolidation and pray the electoral map covers another popular vote loss.

3/1/2019 11:38:30 AM

^I pray this is correct, but in the back of my mind I’m like “man, they’ve wielded this issue pretty effectively for ~40 years.” If this shit works for them, it’s just a sad commentary on where we are in 2019 IMO.

3/1/2019 12:20:41 PM

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/14/18623474/alabama-abortion-vote-senate-roe-v-wade

some legitimately evil people passing legitimately evil legislation

5/14/2019 10:29:29 PM

I’m not really worried about these abortion bills to be honest.

They’re all unconstitutional and I really don’t even think the conservative Supreme Court is even going to overturn roe v Wade. Roe isn’t really about abortion, since women have been having abortions for thousands of years. Roe is about safety and accountability, and I think the court will see this.

Also, the majority of Americans even ~40% of republicans as of a few years ago believe abortion should be legal, so this would be a disaster at the voting booth too.

Also the issue creates a lot of openings for criticizing gop on policies like paid maternity leave, subsidized childcare, wage gaps, healthcare access and costs, and a lot of other positions they have that directly contribute to the abortion rate.

Democrats can easily make the case that if the goal is to save fetuses, Republicans are the ones killing the most babies.

Pat Robertson says it’s too extreme:
https://twitter.com/rightwingwatch/status/1128712526642995201?s=21

[Edited on May 15, 2019 at 1:58 PM. Reason : ]

5/15/2019 1:49:19 PM

you should be terrified, the point of them is to get them to court to erode roe v. wade decision by decision

Quote :

"Also the issue creates a lot of openings for criticizing gop on policies like paid maternity leave, subsidized childcare, wage gaps, healthcare access and costs, and a lot of other positions they have that directly contribute to the abortion rate. Democrats can easily make the case that if the goal is to save fetuses, Republicans are the ones killing the most babies."

democrats can't easily do any of this, this was already true yet abortion has been one of the top two or three topics when it comes to rallying republican support.

[Edited on May 15, 2019 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

5/15/2019 2:15:58 PM

https://yellowhammerfund.org

a very worthy cause that provides funding for anyone seeking care at one of Alabama's three abortion clinics

5/15/2019 2:29:11 PM

Quote :

"They’re all unconstitutional and I really don’t even think the conservative Supreme Court is even going to overturn roe v Wade"

They probably won't, but they very likely might decide it's ok to restrict facilities to only one in a state, or past a certain week in the pregnancy like 6 weeks, or any number of other small changes that would be devastating to certain populations

5/15/2019 3:19:08 PM

https://local.theonion.com/abused-12-year-old-alabama-girl-doesn-t-think-she-can-h-1834787176

Abused 12-Year-Old Alabama Girl Doesn’t Think She Can Handle Being A Mom On Top Of Everything Else

5/16/2019 9:23:33 AM

5/16/2019 9:38:47 AM

Is anyone surprised? It's Alabama for pete's sake. This is nothing but a move to bring the issue back to the SCOTUS.

5/16/2019 12:16:18 PM

It's also Missouri.

Related:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/anti-abortion-rep-tim-murphy-asked-mistress-terminate/story?id=50274843

Quote :

"Pennsylvania Rep. Tim Murphy has resigned after a report surfaced earlier this week that he had asked an extramarital lover to end her pregnancy. Murphy, a Republican who co-sponsored a 20-week abortion ban that passed in the House Tuesday, allegedly asked his lover to terminate her pregnancy, according to text message records acquired by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported Shannon Edwards, 32, whom Murphy recently admitted to having an affair with, messaged the 65-year-old congressman after an anti-abortion statement was posted on his office’s Facebook account in January. "And you have zero issue posting your pro-life stance all over the place when you had no issue asking me to abort our unborn child just last week when we thought that was one of the options," allegedly wrote Edwards in a text exchange that was a part of a number of documents obtained by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. ... ... "

5/16/2019 12:19:55 PM

Hey, 2017 called. It wants its story back.

5/16/2019 1:14:18 PM

How about this?

Quote :

"Unreal. One of the Alabama senators behind that abortion bill is a OBGYN who keeps getting sued because he keeps letting babies and patients die "

https://twitter.com/lib_crusher/status/1128778109560459267?s=19

5/16/2019 1:20:51 PM

Quote :

"Is anyone surprised? It's Alabama for pete's sake"

you’re saying this as if you believe that taking women’s rights is confined to just one state when we know that is far, far from the case

5/16/2019 1:23:20 PM

Hooray for minimization!

Quote :

" This is nothing but a move to bring the issue back to the SCOTUS."

If it somehow stands:

"This is a victory for the sanctity of life! Be sure to pray for our boys in Iran!"

If struck down:

"How much time do you think liberal Ginsburg has left? We need four more years of Trump so he can nominate her replacement! Be sure to pray for our boys in Iran!"

5/16/2019 1:30:30 PM

Quote :

"Hey, 2017 called. It wants its story back."

Oh snap, my bad (to also use the parlance of our times)

5/16/2019 1:37:11 PM

i searched for that dudes name and that story looks like it got reposted or something...made it look like current news.

5/16/2019 2:52:44 PM

This is supposedly a methodist minister

Quote :

"Dave Barnhart: ""The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.""

5/20/2019 9:16:46 AM

If you live in a stand your ground state and a human materializes inside of your body would you have just cause to murder the intruding human?

5/20/2019 4:34:17 PM

I would recommend that everyone looks into Overton strategy because it is something that republicans have mastered and democrats seem to be oblivious to. This entire phenomenon we are witnessing is Republicans forcing a shift of the Overton window on the topic of abortion. You have to recognize it before you can stop it and you have to be willing to play the game to win it. "Civility" and "bipartisanship" won't work.



By passing these laws, they are moving “radical” and "unthinkable" positions into the window by advocating for positions to the right of themselves and turning them into actual “policy”. Talking about them or campaigning on them would only make them “sensible” but it all becomes real once laws go on the books. By the end of this, democrats in these states will be celebrating exceptions for rape, incest, and other extreme cases. At that point, what most would regard as full abortion rights would be outside of the window and considered “ radical”. Liberals are already talking about how reasonable some conservatives are for calling these laws out. Thats how you can tell the shift has occurred. Body autonomy will now be considered the radical leftist position.

This is what republicans do on every issue and its how they manage to win even when they lose. In contrast, democrats look at the Overton window (that was set by republicans) as the limit to what they can do and immediately dismiss anything outside of that window as impossible. They attack anyone in their own party who suggest something outside of the Overton window. The majority of our country ends up actually believing that the basic rights most of us want are unattainable and unrealistic.

The moral of the story is that its a good strategy to start from an extreme position of purity, make that position a viable threat, and then compromise back to what you originally wanted anyway. Good negotiators already know this. I don't completely understand why or how it got like this but the right is just way better when it comes to game theory and the psychological side of politics. They always achieve and maintain their agenda.

5/20/2019 6:18:04 PM

Did Earl just come and try to "introduce" us to the overton window?? Lmao. And Dems have been steadily moving the window on abortion left over the past 4 decades. (and in general, look at climate, look at health care, both have drifted much farther left just in the last few years)

5/20/2019 7:31:58 PM

Earl just read some of Mike Gravels college kids tweets I guess.

5/20/2019 8:04:20 PM

Rwoody's statements suggest they know what the Overton window is but have no idea how it is used as the rest of their post goes on to suggest republican psychology has done such a number on the issue that some democrats think things are moving to the left when they are not. Thats the whole point I’m getting at here (celebrating center right achievements). Republicans are really good at this game.

Please show me what the hell national legislation you are referencing from the last 4 decades. You must be talking about some isolated local exceptions. Everything I see on a national level has been a rightward march since Roe V Wade which was an apolitical decision.

Quote :

"Since 1995, led by congressional Republicans, the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate have moved several times to pass measures banning the procedure of intact dilation and extraction, commonly known as partial birth abortion. "

Quote :

"The Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002 ("BAIPA") was enacted August 5, 2002 by an Act of Congress and signed into law by George W. Bush. It asserts the human rights of infants born after a failed attempt to induce abortion. "

Quote :

"On October 2, 2003, with a vote of 281-142, the House approved the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act to ban partial-birth abortion, with an exemption in cases of fatal threats to the woman. Through this legislation, a doctor could face up to two years in prison and civil lawsuits for performing such a procedure. A woman undergoing the procedure could not be prosecuted under the measure. "

Quote :

"The Unborn Victims of Violence Act, commonly known as "Laci and Conner's Law" was passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bush on April 1, 2004, allowing two charges to be filed against someone who kills a pregnant mother (one for the mother and one for the fetus)."

Quote :

"The Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act is a United States Congress bill to ban late-term abortions nationwide after 20 weeks post-fertilization on the basis that the fetus is capable of feeling pain during an abortion at and after that point of pregnancy. The bill was first introduced in Congress in 2013. It successfully passed the House of Representatives in 2013, 2015, and 2017, but has yet to pass the Senate. "

Thats all the legislature I can find passed related to abortion. All of it is pro-life in addition to most states passing more restrictive laws, parental consent, ultrasound, and counseling requirements yet somehow you think the window has shifted left. Either you don’t know what Overton theory is or the republicans have played their pro-life legislature so well that you think the pro-choice side is winning despite all of the data.





As abortions are in decline because of restrictions, the LEADERS of the party support pro-life candidates and are more concerned with the threat of alienating pro-life voters than they are with being bold. She is even bragging about how her pro-life family are “staunchly democratic”.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nancy-pelosi-democrats-abortion-20170502-story.html

Their lack of Overton strategy was completely confirmed by saying healthcare has "shifted left". National Romneycare was the most radical change a democratic supermajority could muster in two years of total control. Anyone who understands Overton strategy would identify the passing of Romneycare by a democratic supermajority as a major shift to the center right as it advocated for the free market and has left insurance companies with record profits while tens of millions are uninsured with most of the insured not being able to afford their deductibles. Think about it this way, they could do whatever was in their wildest dreams and republicans were going to stamp it as an extreme leftist takeover. They put this extreme left policy label on Romneycare!



Look at climate? Obama’s proposals were not even going to get us to our goal by 2050. They were both too little and too late and now they have the label of the extreme left which will make it hard to ever address the problem in a meaningful way. Nancy Pelosi made fun of the green new deal which is something that could have brought the window away from the right. The republicans even called it to a vote just to show how “unthinkable” solving climate change Is. Most democrats are against it The climate change window could not possibly be further to the right yet you think it has moved left. Biden is being labeled a socialist by foxnews while wanting to find a “middle ground” between destroying the planet and saving it.

Everything Rwoody thinks is left is actually center-right including the Democratic Party. Even if republicans lose, they win. Learn Overton. Learn to politic.

[Edited on May 21, 2019 at 6:33 PM. Reason : they]

5/21/2019 6:32:48 PM

Hey man did you know there are lies in the bible?

5/21/2019 7:32:22 PM

Anti-Abortion-Rights Groups Push GOP To Rethink Rape And Incest Exceptions
https://n.pr/2WYJG51

Quote :

""We understand that issues like rape and incest are difficult topics to tackle; nevertheless, it is our view that the value of human life is not determined by the circumstances of one's conception or birth," said a draft of the letter provided to NPR by Students for Life of America, which led the effort."

at least this logic is consistent

5/23/2019 8:29:11 AM

I've never quite understood why incest would be an exception that conservatives would be willing to make. Anti-abortion activists typically don't make exceptions for physical or mental disabilities. Is it that a family member could potentially coerce a person into sexual engagement without it technically being considered rape?

5/23/2019 9:38:07 AM

Another migrant child died in custody, silence from the "pro-life" assholes

5/24/2019 3:50:22 PM

good read on the impact of current laws on row v. wade:
Why Some Conservatives Are Freaking Out Over Alabama’s Abortion Ban
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/05/mary-ziegler-alabama-abortion-ban-roe-v-wade/

5/28/2019 9:26:26 AM

Row vs Wade, the scotus case about how best to cross a shallow river

5/28/2019 10:42:06 AM

lol, dur

yes the court decided that you have the highest chance of success hiring an indian guide, but caulking and floating is okay if it's shallow

5/28/2019 10:53:20 AM

I find it interesting that in NC, they struck down the "after 20 weeks" portion but left the part where aborted remains have to be handled just like a birthed body would've been.

That argument will be used in the future as "evidence" that fetuses should be protected. "Well the court upheld that aborted fetuses must be handled like birthed-babies/children/adults, therefore they must be protected the same way!"

5/28/2019 12:32:32 PM

i think you are confusing the vetoed born alive bill with the 20 week bill being overturned

5/28/2019 1:22:03 PM

My bad, I was thinking they were one in the same.

5/28/2019 2:04:33 PM

Actually nevermind, I think you were confusing the Indiana SC decision with the NC decision.

5/28/2019 3:30:23 PM

I was on the phone while listening to the news in the car, so I may have conflated the two. One bill I heard that passed required aborted fetuses to be treated the same as live-birthed corpses.

5/28/2019 8:54:15 PM

the nc abortion bill veto override failed

6/7/2019 12:25:49 PM

I'm not sure which of the right wing nutjob threads this should go in, but I chose the abortion thread by default:

Quote :

"Alabama Woman Indicted for Her Unborn Child’s Death After She Was Shot in the Stomach The charges against the shooter were dismissed, and police have reportedly blamed the woman who was five months pregnant for initiating the fight."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/alabama-woman-indicted-for-her-unborn-childs-death-after-she-was-shot-in-the-stomach?ref=scroll

6/27/2019 6:15:17 AM

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/mayor-pete-stunned-by-meghan-mccain-asking-about-infanticide-after-a-baby-was-born-does-anyone-seriously-think-that/

Quote :

"[Meghan] McCain went further, asking [Pete Buttigieg] what if a woman wanted to 'invoke infanticide after a baby was born? You’d be comfortable with that?' 'Does anybody seriously think that’s what these cases are about?' Buttigieg asked... 'Think about the situation. If this is a late-term situation, then by definition it's one where a woman was expecting to carry the pregnancy to term. Then she gets the most, perhaps, devastating news of her life. We're talking about families that may have picked out a name, maybe assembling a crib and they learn something, excruciating, and are faced with this terrible choice. And I don't know what to tell them, morally, about what they should do. I just know that I trust, and her decision, medically or morally, isn't going to be any better because the government is commanding her to do it,' Buttigieg continued... [McCain responded:] 'To put a peg on this, I respect what you're saying because you didn’t back down from it. This is going to hurt you in the middle of the country with the Republicans you're trying to win over.' 'Quite frankly, that answer was just as radical as I thought it was, sorry,' McCain concluded."

2/6/2020 1:41:36 PM

Excellent answer by Pete...My problem with people like him on this is the failure to address underlying issues. They want to perpetuate the problem Mccain is referencing (large portions of the country disagreeing) by keeping cost as a barrier to higher education. People without college education are much more likely to want abortion illegal in all cases and those people (44% of people without college vs 12% overall) are guaranteed Trump voters.

Quote :

"Views on abortion by level of education, 2019 Seven-in-ten college graduates (70%) say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, as do 60% of those with some college education. A slim majority of those with a high school degree or less education share this opinion: 54% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 44% say it should be illegal in all or most cases. "

https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/

2/6/2020 4:02:48 PM

Anyone watch that new Roe v Wade documentary?

5/26/2020 10:25:20 AM

Seri, show me the definition of irony:

Quote :

" Planned Parenthood @PPFA We're devastated, grieving, and outraged by violence against Black lives. We must continue to demand accountability, justice, and an end to the inequity that continues to define every moment of life for Black America from the racist institutions that uphold white supremacy."

6/4/2020 2:28:01 PM

who’s Seri?

6/4/2020 2:29:11 PM

set em up

6/4/2020 2:33:05 PM