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0EPII1
All American
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LOL, simply "Americans"

10/21/2019 12:54:32 AM

A Tanzarian
drip drip boom
9770 Posts
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Quote :
"the death knoll"


Is that the hill you die on?

10/21/2019 1:03:01 AM

0EPII1
All American
41321 Posts
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knell

10/21/2019 1:48:16 AM

afripino
All American
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kneel

10/21/2019 10:37:29 AM

horosho
Veteran
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Theres not much deep about it except the pockets. We should call it the deep pockets. Its not just the military industrial complex but all of the sectors and corporations that will use their influence to drive profits.

Follow the money. Look into who owns the major media outlets, who their advertisers are, what their holdings are,etc etc. Bernie got cut off on one of the debates when he talked about how the network was sponsored by pharmaceutical and healthcare companies. Its pretty easy to see if you look. There is no way in hell any corporation would benefit from a candidate who won't even accept their money.

A lot of the supporters stand to gain from their support as well. Most elite liberals hold diversified assets which means they can not benefit unless we feed the defense contractors, health insurance companies, and energy companies responsible for most of the major problems we are facing.

[Edited on October 21, 2019 at 7:00 PM. Reason : corporate media ]

10/21/2019 6:58:47 PM

0EPII1
All American
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^
:clap:

BTW, I was going to say "military-industrial-corporate complex", but I figured the "corporate" part is subsumed within the "industrial" part.

And is that really true about Bernie being cut off? If so, that's so evil. And it says a lot; in fact that one anecdote is a microcosm of how America is being run today and who has the power, and portends the destruction of the environment, public health, and the planet.

I said earlier that someone such as Bernie *could* get elected a couple of election cycles later. But it is obvious it won't happen naturally for several decades. Only way it could happen sooner is if there is some radical shift in American society vis-a-vis the hold that corporations have on the American public's psyche. Only when Americans can free themselves from the slavery of corporations can America became an empathetic, egalitarian society.

10/21/2019 11:11:40 PM

marko
Tom Joad
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We're going to burn the whole world down before any of that happens.

10/22/2019 12:06:52 PM

Pupils DiL8t
All American
4273 Posts
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Quote :
"And is that really true about Bernie being cut off?"


Here's video of the exchange:

https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1156387599956795392

It's difficult to discern when a moderator cuts a candidate off for exceeding the allotted time limit and when a candidate is cut off for more nefarious reasons.

10/22/2019 12:32:05 PM

utowncha
Veteran
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They should have the sense not to cut someone off at a time that appears nefarious...

10/22/2019 1:12:54 PM

horosho
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https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/10/27/after-tribute-john-conyers-sanders-and-tlaib-pump-up-detroit-crowd/2479961001/

If any other candidate were doing what Bernie is doing right now, it would be on the news but they cannot allow people to see Bernie's crowds and endorsements so no live coverage of massive rallies and barely any mentions.

If you google news "Bernie Sanders" right now, Foxnews is the only msm that comes up. By contrast, "Pete Buttigeig" gets you hits from all of the big time MSM sites on the first page.

10/28/2019 1:59:34 AM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
49266 Posts
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Quote :
" If you google news "Bernie Sanders" right now, Foxnews is the only msm that comes up."


I have no idea how google news algo works but I suspect it’s some mix of top engagement and your previous searches. Considering the sources you have cited on here it’s hardly surprising to see a FNC hit.

I have NEVER used google news at all but I just did and searched for Bernie and the top hit was CNN (a dumb celebrity article about Bernie and Ariana Grande). Then Politico, CBS, WaPo, Salon, New York Times and then the FNC article about Tlaib endorsement.

[Edited on October 28, 2019 at 8:01 AM. Reason : missed one. A Washington Examiner article citing Bernie’s “love” for Mao and Pol Pot ]

10/28/2019 7:59:59 AM

dtownral
All American
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they know his internet usage enough to know he wants to see fox news

10/28/2019 9:07:19 AM

Bullet
All American
24982 Posts
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lol, earl has no idea how google works

10/28/2019 9:45:26 AM

dtownral
All American
25584 Posts
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why are dem talking heads on tv debating if it's okay to boo the president at the world series?

10/28/2019 10:38:36 AM

beatsunc
All American
10255 Posts
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^govt is a religion, the president is like the pope

i just google bernie sanders and it was all negative stories, several on how he told a black student to respect the police to avoid getting shot. i tried couple different browsers with incognito mode on and off and it was all the same results. on youtube do get different results in incognito mode. not sure if that means anything




[Edited on October 28, 2019 at 10:50 AM. Reason : s]

10/28/2019 10:41:53 AM

dtownral
All American
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you mean about how he was asked what advice he would give to his kids and gave the same advice that black parents have to give to their kids so they don't get shot in the back of the head?

10/28/2019 11:26:24 AM

beatsunc
All American
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^i didn't click the stories but the headlines left impression it was controversial

10/28/2019 11:37:29 AM

dtownral
All American
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it wasnt

10/28/2019 12:21:28 PM

horosho
Veteran
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Quote :
"I have no idea how google news algo works but I suspect it’s some mix of top engagement and your previous searches. Considering the sources you have cited on here it’s hardly surprising to see a FNC hit.

I have NEVER used google news at all but I just did and searched for Bernie and the top hit was CNN (a dumb celebrity article about Bernie and Ariana Grande). Then Politico, CBS, WaPo, Salon, New York Times and then the FNC article about Tlaib endorsement."

I don't think its personalized at all. I use a new proxy on every browser load anyway. Just tested it out and got the same results on 3 different devices/ips. All of the articles you mentioned show up now because they were posted during the monday morning rush that occured between our posts. You need to understand that your post was 6 hours after mine.

I rarely go on foxnews.com, I do watch it on TV quite a bit (mainly just tucker and foxbusiness) but online I really only type in cnn.com for news and the rest is links I click on off of social media which are usually left-leaning pages or other academics/scientists/social activists like myself. I always hit the cap on my phone for wapo and nyt tho.

The point is I consume a ton of MSM and thats how I am able to critique it so well.

10/28/2019 9:17:32 PM

daaave
Veteran
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dunno where to put this but lmao

10/28/2019 10:59:33 PM

HCH
All American
3664 Posts
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^It's really amazing that Silver is surprised to see so many libs overreact to a tweet.

10/29/2019 1:47:05 PM

dtownral
All American
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solid troll attempt

10/29/2019 2:32:17 PM

horosho
Veteran
322 Posts
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We are documenting the shit out of this.

10/29/2019 6:05:47 PM

horosho
Veteran
322 Posts
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and now this

11/2/2019 3:23:19 AM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
49266 Posts
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You watch more CNN than Jeff Zucker.

But less that worms for brains in the White House.

11/2/2019 11:33:10 PM

dtownral
All American
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CNN keeps showing Sanders lower in the graphic than their own actual poll results show

11/3/2019 11:25:37 AM

horosho
Veteran
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This is the most nefarious one yet.

11/3/2019 12:08:54 PM

utowncha
Veteran
221 Posts
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maybe he would stop if we all, in unison, call CNN hot garbage? even though nobody here is a fan (and never has been) maybe it would end a lot of earling.

[Edited on November 3, 2019 at 12:28 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2019 12:28:20 PM

0EPII1
All American
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the liberal media suppressing sanders has nothing to do with the fact that they are liberal, does it? sanders is liberal too, at least vis-a-vis which political ticket he is running on.

they suppress him because they, the media, are pro-industrialists, right?

11/3/2019 10:49:29 PM

CaelNCSU
All American
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Quote :
"The two parties are two factions of the business party. Most of the population doesn't even bother voting because it looks meaningless. They're marginalized and properly distracted. At least that's the goal."


Noam Chomsky, Media Control: The Spectacular Achievements of Propaganda

[Edited on November 4, 2019 at 7:37 AM. Reason : A]

11/4/2019 7:37:36 AM

dtownral
All American
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Quote :
"the liberal media suppressing sanders has nothing to do with the fact that they are liberal, does it? sanders is liberal too, at least vis-a-vis which political ticket he is running on.

they suppress him because they, the media, are pro-industrialists, right?"


sanders and the media do not have the same political interests

the media represents the interests of the billionaire class, which sanders is clearly against

11/4/2019 8:18:36 AM

0EPII1
All American
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^ , ^^

exactly my understanding

so, why don't 3rd party/independent candidates get any votes when they do stand?

the majority doesn't vote; why doesn't that same majority vote for the whoever the independent is and end up annihilating the 2-party, two-sides-of-the-same-coin system?

how can that corrupt system be upended? whom does the blame fall on for the perpetuation of said system?

is it impossible for an ind to win? what if the ind got more votes than either of the other 2? what happens in that case? coalition or run-offs? what if the ind got majority (> 50%) of the votes.

NOTE: i know actual # of votes doesn't matter, so replace votes with electoral votes.

11/4/2019 11:15:41 AM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
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Quote :
" why don't 3rd party/independent candidates get any votes when they do stand?"


The third party candidates the last few cycles have been utter garbage.

But the obvious answer is $$$$$$$. They can’t penetrate the DNC/RNC infrastructure.

[Edited on November 4, 2019 at 11:30 AM. Reason : Earl is the only Jill Stein fanboy on earth]

11/4/2019 11:29:49 AM

CaelNCSU
All American
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Quote :
"
so, why don't 3rd party/independent candidates get any votes when they do stand?

the majority doesn't vote; why doesn't that same majority vote for the whoever the independent is and end up annihilating the 2-party, two-sides-of-the-same-coin system?
"


Have you ever tried to get more than 3 people to agree on a place to eat? Multiply the difficulty to 100 million people and also, the difficulty doesn't scale linearly. Also, the propaganda keeping them from voting is working.

Quote :
"
how can that corrupt system be upended? whom does the blame fall on for the perpetuation of said system?

is it impossible for an ind to win? what if the ind got more votes than either of the other 2? what happens in that case? coalition or run-offs? what if the ind got majority (> 50%) of the votes.

NOTE: i know actual # of votes doesn't matter, so replace votes with electoral votes."


One of the original ideas that was debated during the ratification of the Consitution, was that since you could expect everyone to be corrupt it was best to let the self-interests of everyone fight it out. That way human nature would end up averaging out the interests of multiple parties. Unions used to be a powerful interest that happened to align with most working class people. The trick is to find something like that with power and give them your vote/support.

The modern problem is that the stratification of the aspirational class (top quintile), top 1% has left everyone else behind. The aspirational class is too worried about being able to keep affording to shop at Whole Foods and using Postmates to want to shake things up.

11/4/2019 3:28:04 PM

horosho
Veteran
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Quote :
"the majority doesn't vote; why doesn't that same majority vote for the whoever the independent is and end up annihilating the 2-party, two-sides-of-the-same-coin system?

how can that corrupt system be upended? whom does the blame fall on for the perpetuation of said system?"

The system is perpetuated by everyday simps, many of whom you see on this very board. The billionaire class has weaponized them to go out and actively shame any dissenters and preach the "blue no matter who" and "any 3rd party vote is a vote for trump" until they fall in line or abstain.

A lot of educated people know exactly what is going on and they have calculated that staying in this system is best for them because their life is already comfortable. Its definitely better than the risk involved in a political shakeup that would likely involve them losing some of the advantages they have over the less fortunate.

The media is neoliberal. Basic example, a middle class person with rental properties would lose out if policies were in place that guaranteed affordable housing. They still want to be able to get married or have an abortion but they don't give want to help poor people at their expense. These are the types of liberals that 100% align with the democratic party and media.

11/4/2019 9:55:40 PM

StTexan
Veteran
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^Aren’t you a Sanders supporter? Does he not want affordable housing?

11/4/2019 10:24:59 PM

horosho
Veteran
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Yeah but his policies do not represent the mainstream of the party so much that theres enough overlap with mine for me to support him. Theres less than 10 people like this in all of congress and they are certainly nowhere near positions of leadership.

Honestly, part of the blame goes on Bernie. He could have started a new party by running independently in 2016 and 2020. Instead, he sheepdogged millions towards Hillary (he will again).

Quote :
"The third party candidates the last few cycles have been utter garbage.

[Edited on November 4, 2019 at 11:30 AM. Reason : Earl is the only Jill Stein fanboy on earth"

I and every other green voter I know am a fanboy of policies not politicians. (NOT ME, US) We never bought in to the whole cult of personality thing you see amongst simpletons.

HRC and DJT were "utter garbage". I don't see how anyone could look at Johnson or Stein as garbage relative to the two worst politicians we've ever seen. Its because you don't, you're just at bat for the system like I described in the previous post.

11/4/2019 10:40:57 PM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
49266 Posts
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Yep, all four were shit (which has been consensus on here for four years despite your relentless strawman efforts). Two would have set back progressive movements (though really, Johnson is irrelevant) for decades and one of the other two had no chance at all on planet earth in reality. Simple math, really.

[Edited on November 5, 2019 at 7:39 AM. Reason : X]

11/5/2019 7:38:34 AM

dtownral
All American
25584 Posts
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bernie should have run independent so he could have the amount of influence that jill stein has had!

11/5/2019 7:41:57 AM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
49266 Posts
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To be fair, she has run a pretty nice grift, even getting some Clinton-fan money.

Late capitalism has been really, really good to Jill.

11/5/2019 7:47:24 AM

dtownral
All American
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remember when she grifted people for $millions promising a recount fight that never actually went anyhwere then promised that people who donated would get to vote on how the money would be spent but never actually did that either and then just stopped filing FEC reports?

pepperidgefarm.jpg

11/5/2019 7:55:56 AM

qntmfred
retired
39510 Posts
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this is a bit off topic perhaps, but what media outlets do y'all think are good these days?

I've been reading/watching a lot of The Hill and Politico lately

11/5/2019 7:59:17 AM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
49266 Posts
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The Hill is rightwing nonsense. They still publish John Solomon ffs.

In general the journalist/investigative wing of the WSJ is great (just avoid the editorials at all costs). And WaPo is good still.

For a more progressive slant the non-Greenwald Intercept reporters still do a wonderful job.

(That’s actually a bit unfair. Glenn has done a lot of good work on Bolsonaro and taken great personal risks — he just has corkscrewed himself to the ground being contrarian to anti-Trump).

[Edited on November 5, 2019 at 8:32 AM. Reason : C]

11/5/2019 8:31:09 AM

horosho
Veteran
322 Posts
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Do you even bother looking at platforms or just go solely by media hit-pieces? It was an election with 4 contrasting candidates.

HRC
-establishment same ole same old
-build on what obama had been doing

DJT
-for the neo-Reaganists who wanted to cut taxes
-lockdown the borders
-shakeup America's relationships with the rest of the world

Stein
-green new deal
-student loan forgiveness
-medicare for all
-path to citizenship for all
-ranked choice voting

There was very little overlap between the candidates. I'd say DJT and HRC had the most overlap even though Stein and Johnson both had non-interventionist policies.

Through a libertarian lens, what was wrong with Gary Johnson? Why do libertarians even need a strong leader? Isn't that part of the whole point?
Quote :
" Two would have set back progressive movements (though really, Johnson is irrelevant) for decades"

So much for that. There is no doubt that all of the major progressive movements (stein's platform) have progressed more than ever during Trump's presidency. Things that were only a green party pipe dream in 2012 are now becoming mainstream. We have about five new people in congress, a ton of senators are embracing medicare for all, Warren pushing for student loan forgiveness, pretty much everyone in the party wants a path to citizenship, and Mitch McConnell is threatening to bring the green new deal to the floor.



[Edited on November 5, 2019 at 10:26 AM. Reason : bernie could have won as an independent]

[Edited on November 5, 2019 at 10:37 AM. Reason : the math is that anybody could have won if they let them in the debates which is why there were two]

11/5/2019 10:12:52 AM

daaave
Veteran
238 Posts
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Quote :
"this is a bit off topic perhaps, but what media outlets do y'all think are good these days?"


These are all gonna be left to far left just fyi

I highly recommend Current Affairs. Just great and approachable writing. Here's their Best Of list from last year:
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/12/the-best-things-we-published-in-2018

Also second The Intercept for analysis of current events.

I've seen a lot of great articles from The Outline recently
https://theoutline.com/topic/power

Commune Magazine for deep analysis of culture/politics from a socialist perspective. This one is new but really promising.
https://communemag.com/

And of course, Jacobin
https://jacobinmag.com/

11/5/2019 10:55:29 AM

HCH
All American
3664 Posts
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Quote :
"NBC killed Ronan Farrow's Weinstein story and let Matt Lauer have a rape button.

CBS employed creeps Les Moonves and Charlie Rose.

ABC "quashed" the Epstein story three years ago.

And all of these "news" companies ran with whatever Kavanaugh smears fell into their lap."


Quite the indictment.

11/5/2019 2:09:15 PM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
49266 Posts
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Yes, that’s the takeaway.

The conservative guy, as always, is the real victim in this.

11/5/2019 2:14:02 PM

thegoodlife3
All American
35362 Posts
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^^would love to know who originally wrote that

11/5/2019 2:50:44 PM

qntmfred
retired
39510 Posts
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just back to the media bias theme for a second, thought this was pretty egregious

https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1191838368281366528



something perhaps the bernie bros will finally agree with me on. corporate media loathe a political outsider

https://vocal.media/theSwamp/a-visual-history-of-the-yang-media-blackout

[Edited on November 5, 2019 at 5:49 PM. Reason : .]

11/5/2019 5:48:25 PM

0EPII1
All American
41321 Posts
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Wtf, where is Bernie???

That's so insidious and Machiavellian.

Poor guy will never become president, even though he deserves it the most of anybody, and is what America – and the world – needs.

11/5/2019 9:31:07 PM

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