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GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
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As to guns having gotten easier to produce at home, I agree, and the specter of 3D printing firearms and critical firearm components will only grow with time. That is a novel issue that will require novel solutions. I still think there's value, in the short- to medium-term, in trying to reduce the number of traditional firearms through coercive rather than compulsory means.

Quote :
"Which is why a better avenue towards reducing gun violence is through changing our approach to the drug war."


I would dispute that either is "better." Reducing the number and easy availability of guns on the one hand, and changing our approach to the drug war the other, are both necessary and complementary steps to significantly reducing gun violence. Other issues would ideally be addressed as well, in an ideal world, but these are the big ones.

Quote :
"CA has banned all sorts of guns over the years; the manufacturers always develop new stuff to be compliant."


Another advantage to taxing all newly produced and sold firearms (and, to be comprehensive here, critical firearm components) - there's no getting around it with tweaking the design. Do bullets come out? Can bullets come out? Then the excise tax applies.

8/16/2019 10:33:25 PM

theDuke866
All American
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Quote :
"I would dispute that either is "better.""


It is better in the sense that I think there wouldn't be just vehement opposition to it--I think a broad, bipartisan solution could be achieved. I think it would also have far greater efficacy, coupled with criminal justice reform. Guns are extremely durable goods, and there are several hundred million in circulation here. Drugs are extremely non-durable...they are consumable, and have a shelf-life, to boot. They require a steady inflow. Take the profit motive out, curtail the black market, and a staggering amount of violent crime would dry up.

I mean, holy shit, the first time there was a big push for gun control, with the 1934 NFA, it was basically in concert with the 21st Amendment, repealing Prohibition. Once the impetus for the organize crime went away, it didn't make any difference how many bullets came out per trigger squeeze--they weren't doing much shooting.

Now, mass shootings are a different thing, and they are horrific and spectacular and drive an emotional response, but that's not how policy should be decided. What I'm proposing would have vastly more of an impact, but nobody cares about hundreds of young minorities killed every week. I don't think they really even care about the tangential crime that does affect Middle America, because getting shot in a robbery is just as bad as getting shot in a mass shooting, but it isn't as much of an inexplicable specter.

Regarding gun bans, why in the hell would you expend an immense amount of political capital, towards an end that has already been tried before relatively recently with dubious-at-best effectiveness, with every reason to believe it is far more poorly positioned to yield benefits today, to make an attempt at solving a vanishingly small part of the problem, when there is a solution that has been successfully implemented in a closely analogous way before, that would impact the overwhelming part of the problem, that would probably enjoy support from both parties, that we need to do anyway irrespective of gun violence?


_____________________________________________________________________

I wouldn't even worry about 3d printing, although that is out there, too. At this point, there are dozens of solutions to enable quick and easy machining of your own receivers and frames for common semi-auto rifles and pistols with common tools.

Just like the '94 AWB supercharged the proliferation of the weapons it sought to restrict, the more recent efforts have driven substantial development and proliferation of the ability to easily "roll your own" guns and ammunition. These guns are not even serialized, much less subject to any paper trail.

Why don't we fucking stop making an intractable problem worse by flailing? Why don't we focus on the drug war, criminal justice/prison reform, keeping guns from crazy people, and maybe some sort of licensing/purchase permit system, on a generally "shall-issue" basis, and not tied to specific firearm serial numbers (much like the NC pistol permit system)?

8/17/2019 12:45:08 AM

TreeTwista10
Laugh, Think, Cry
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re: magazine capacity limits, a piece of plastic with a spring in it is not bulky or difficult to manufacture or import

8/17/2019 12:49:26 AM

theDuke866
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or sheetmetal.

never mind that whofuckingknows how many of them are already in circulation. hell, i don't even know how many I have. I doubt I could tell you to the nearest 10...and I've got nothing compared to most people who are really into guns.

8/17/2019 12:56:39 AM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
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It's true that we're probably closer to being able to reach a "broad, bipartisan solution" on drugs, because the political culture is moving that way. But it's also moving that way on gun control. The NRA's view of the 2nd Amendment doesn't become more popular with each of these shootings.

Guns are durable. That's not a downside. That allows us to gradually reduce the number of civilian firearms without seizing or banning them. You can pinch off the flow of new guns onto the market and there's still some 340 million of them out there to buy, sell, and trade. I don't need to risk prison or massive fines by buying guns on the black market, because there's still legal guns around for me to get. This would stand in opposition to how illegal drugs are currently treated, where your only option is a criminal one.

Quote :
"Now, mass shootings are a different thing, and they are horrific and spectacular and drive an emotional response, but that's not how policy should be decided."


The emotional response has knock-on effects that negatively affect society and merit a policy response. You like it that your daughter has to do active shooter drills at school?

I don't think there's a lot of value in trying to create sweeping policies just to target mass shootings, which are, as you point out comparatively rare causes of gun death. But there's even less value in pretending the problem doesn't exist.

8/17/2019 9:33:00 AM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"Why don't we focus on the drug war, criminal justice/prison reform, "



You keep bringing this up. The drug war, mass incarceration, and our mass gun culture all serve the same purpose: To suppress the political purchase of minority communities. The criminalization of drugs puts black and brown bodies in jail, and the obsessive gun culture simultaneously paints minorities as dangerous while portraying officers and white vigilantes as virtuous.

If you removed the drug and prison war from the equation, then you would have to come up with another means of depriving minorities of their full political agency.

8/18/2019 1:20:27 PM

beatsunc
All American
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^
Quote :
"If you removed the drug and prison war from the equation, then you would have to come up with another means of depriving minorities of their full political agency.

"


wth

8/18/2019 3:49:13 PM

synapse
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https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html

8/18/2019 8:45:49 PM

LoneSnark
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Quote :
"If you removed the drug and prison war from the equation, then you would have to come up with another means of depriving minorities of their full political agency."

They'd just come up with another war, such as the war on guns to mass incarcerate minorities.

Progressives just can't not be "progressive"

[Edited on August 19, 2019 at 8:51 AM. Reason : .,.]

8/19/2019 8:50:52 AM

dtownral
All American
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you're confusing progressive and liberal

8/19/2019 9:17:21 AM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
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https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1163637669768900613?s=21

Hey. Stop acting like Trump gives a fuck. Stop writing stories about his desire to do gun control after every disease addled word that comes from that jello mess he has above his face. How have we not learned this as a country yet.

8/20/2019 9:43:22 AM

utowncha
Veteran
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can we trade guns for greenland?

8/21/2019 7:18:15 AM

HCH
All American
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Quote :
"https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/white-house-considers-controversial-plan-on-mental-illness-and-mass-shooting/2019/09/09/eb58b6f6-ce72-11e9-87fa-8501a456c003_story.html"


Trump is considering a plan to monitor phones of the mentally ill to help stop mass shootings. Obviously, on it's face, this is a violation of the 4th amendment and will be struck down. But I am curious what the anti-2A crowd feel about this? If it is shown that monitoring phones will prevent mass shootings, do you think it's worth implementation, even if it violates our constitutional rights?

9/9/2019 3:33:34 PM

Bullet
All American
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"Anti-2A crowd!!!!!1" - what does that even mean?

9/9/2019 3:35:29 PM

HCH
All American
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Lets just go with your boy Beto's definition and call it a mandatory "buy back" of "assault' weapons.

9/9/2019 3:46:30 PM

Bullet
All American
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"my boy"? That's a dumb assumption.

9/9/2019 3:52:50 PM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
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Expanding background checks is basically Minority Report. Good point..

9/9/2019 3:54:28 PM

dtownral
All American
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It's not at all surprising that the "dont tread on me" supporters are okay with being tread all over as long as it means guns arent slightly harder to get

9/9/2019 4:01:08 PM

HCH
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Not sure if that's directed to me, or... I apologize if I was somehow unclear above. I do not support the violation of any of our rights, whether it's the second or the fourth that is being considered in the link above.

9/9/2019 4:16:18 PM

JesusHChrist
All American
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Gun nuts are right wing reactionary dipshits who have no real philosophical or moral conviction.

They want to rule and maintain their political and socio-economic advantage by force. That's it. That's the entirety of their political worldview. Hence the need for guns. Hence the worship of the military and law enforcement. And hence the "I'm just asking questions" attitude about blatant civil rights abuses that would never target them or their cohorts.

9/10/2019 12:34:08 AM

utowncha
Veteran
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gun nuts* are reactionary dipshits. we apparently have a sizable quantity of left wingers too.

[Edited on September 10, 2019 at 12:15 PM. Reason : cant spell]

9/10/2019 12:15:06 PM

wdprice3
BinaryBuffonary
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Quote :
"I do not support the violation of any of our rights, whether it's the second or the fourth that is being considered in the link above."


snicker.gif

9/10/2019 1:11:55 PM

CaelNCSU
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It's been argued that rights have responsibilities associated with them. Seems the 2nd amendment has the clearest example--own a gun: serve in the militia.

9/11/2019 9:26:20 AM

utowncha
Veteran
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Whoa now Beto!

9/13/2019 7:41:54 AM

beatsunc
All American
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Thanks to guys like Beto gun sales up 15%

9/13/2019 10:31:21 AM

rjrumfel
All American
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Beto is an idiot.

Not only did gun sales increase, he's given the Trump team a huge talking point. I swear, for a group of people who hate this man so much, they really want to see four more years of him as POTUS.

9/13/2019 10:58:00 AM

A Tanzarian
drip drip boom
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"They're gonna take yer guns!" was going to be a talking point no matter what Beto or anyone else said.

Just like last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that...

9/13/2019 11:07:04 AM

rjrumfel
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Yup. But by and large the words never actually came out of anyone's mouth. Until now.

Mandatory buybacks is the same thing as seizure of personal property. It will go over like a turd in an punchbowl.

9/13/2019 11:09:04 AM

dtownral
All American
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years of doing nothing -> they're gonna take your guns
wanting background checks for all sales - > they're gonna take your guns
banning new "assault weapon" items -> they're gonna take your guns
magazine capacity limits -> they're gonna take your guns
voluntary buybacks -> they're gonna take your guns

who the fuck cares if they accuse anyone of wanting to take guns, it makes no difference

9/13/2019 11:13:39 AM

A Tanzarian
drip drip boom
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I agree that buybacks is a proposal that won't pass made by a candidate who won't win.

But let's not pretend this wasn't going to be the GOP talking point all along. The most anodyne statements will always be twisted for maximum outrage.

[Edited on September 13, 2019 at 11:21 AM. Reason : ^ pretty much]

9/13/2019 11:17:43 AM

horosho
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Beto was bold and brave. Centrist democrats generally don't want to do anything meaningful but want to pretend like they are angry there is no solution. Solving the problem might alienate the people causing the problem.

Its the same as their position on climate change, healthcare, economic reform, etc.

9/14/2019 8:39:17 PM

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