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rwoody
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^^Nope he just pissed off the wrong person

6/2/2020 11:03:58 AM

utowncha
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You could say those two particular users are a testament to the website. One had popular opinions here but fucked with a moderator in multiple threads and got banned (this is specifically warned against when you sign up even if you think it's wrong).

The other is universally hated but continues to post and (I assume) isn't breaking any rules... not banned. If horosho is actually doing anything wrong yes he should be banned OR dtr should be brought back.

[Edited on June 2, 2020 at 11:35 AM. Reason : this is probably over analyzing... apologies ]

6/2/2020 11:31:35 AM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"But this lady is a liberal."



Totally irrelevant.

Quote :
"I still doubt it offends anyone new."






Quote :
"I doubt it offends anyone in his base."





Quote :
"and maybe I am a moron."



Correct. You are now 1-3 in this post alone.

Quote :
" Chastising someone for not being as knowledgeable or articulate doesn't improve their skills."



You're the one who regularly posts BS like "I'm ThE oNlY oNe AwArE oF tHiS!!1one!" Stop doing that and I'll stop pointing out how you regularly make fucking moronic posts.

Deal?

6/2/2020 3:10:06 PM

Cabbage
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^And one more thing before I'm finished with you:

You move the goalposts from not seeing why people would have a problem with Trump's Bible photo-op to: Well, only people that had a problem with Trump to begin with would have a problem with this. Well, if you think that's worthy of being pointed out, then:

Conversely, do you think Trump gained any supporters with that photo-op? (Incidentally, if you do, that only convinces me more of your fucking moronity). If not, why didn't you call that out? You consistently call out people against Trump (far more frequently than you call out Trump himself). Why?

I suspect it is because you are secretly a Trump-Ball-Licker.

Amirite or amirite?

6/2/2020 3:22:52 PM

horosho
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You are reading posts in isolation and losing all context. That post was a response to this:
Quote :
"I’ll wait to pass judgment until Earl tells us what the base thinks.

[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 7:48 PM. Reason : Lol... “it’s a bible.”"


That was the goal post. So you're probably doing the same thing with the "i'm the only one aware of" quote that you're thinking about but not referencing.

Quote :
"No one gives a fuck about his base. He has not and will never lose his base. Period. What are we even talking about? His base is like 30% of likely voters. They will always be his voters?

Why are you so obsessed with his base."

I think its much more than 30 around 40 but either way its a large portion of the country and it matters because its a huge handicap that makes the electoral math and congressional math difficult when you just write off that large % of the country. Its like starting off every football game down 14-0. Also, the % of voter turnout that his base represents will expand and contract based on passion. Trump is managing passion with his moves everyday. You think its nonsense and I've been trying to convince you that it is carefully thought out moves to secure his base as opposed to "braindead randomness". That is why he will never lose them. They would turn on him if he suddenly abandoned their desires to try and appease liberals.

[Edited on June 2, 2020 at 3:30 PM. Reason : imagine if Trump suddenly funded abortion, granted amnesty, and banned assault weapons]

6/2/2020 3:23:16 PM

Cabbage
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^Oh, so you're taking a sarcastic post seriously, now? (Here's a hint: No one actually gives a shit what you have to say concerning what Trump's base thinks).

This is what you actually posted:

Quote :
"I don't get the problem with him saying "Its a bible" Maybe because I'm too far removed from being religious. Gonna need some clarification on that. "


Note the complete absence of any reference to Trump's base.

6/2/2020 3:29:37 PM

horosho
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Thats what I mean by context. That context was provided by nym's post which is what I was responding to. Nothing else had been said at that point so it should be impossible to assume any other context.

[Edited on June 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM. Reason : so you moved the goalposts and i moved them back]

6/2/2020 3:32:56 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"Nothing else had been said at that point so it should be impossible to assume any other context."


That's bullshit, you liar. Here are some other things that were said:

Quote :
"https://twitter.com/frankpallotta/status/1267594416732151808?s=21

Come the fuck on. America is so fucking stupid."


Quote :
"the video is even worse

not as bad as the cops teargassing peaceful protestors so that fucking idiot to walk to that stupid fucking photo op, tho

things are gonna get way worse, and it’s all on him"


Quote :
"His dick must be 3.5 inches long. Hiding behind the Bible? "



You Fucking Liar

Quote :
"So you're probably doing the same thing with the "i'm the only one aware of" quote that you're thinking about but not referencing."


Oh, so you want a reference? I'm not about to hunt down all the times you've done it (and I'm sure you're being disingenuous here by acting as if you don't remember or have never done it), so this will have to do as simply an illustrative example:

Quote :
"Yeah these nominees are determined well in advanced. Hillary was promised it to drop out and let obama win and then biden had to let hillary win and was promised next if she lost the general. Thats how congress knew to impeach Trump for "investigating his opponent" several months before the general public knew who his opponent was going to be. I think I was the only one who pointed that out at the time."


https://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=651278&page=4#16572385

6/2/2020 3:43:54 PM

rwoody
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https://newrepublic.com/article/157949/fascism-america-trump-anti-police-george-floyd-protests

"this is fascism"

6/2/2020 4:34:35 PM

NyM410
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Quote :
"I think its much more than 30 around 40 but either way its a large portion of the country"


This is semantics and it’s likely you just misspoke but it’s a big distinction; but that is 30-40% of likely voters, not of the country. And at least 40% of the population would vote for a potato with a D next to his name. The only notable thing about Trumps base that differs is his cult of personality and willingness to burn the country down to sate it. No other POTUS in history, not even Nixon, cared so little about so many and blatantly showed it.

Quote :
" Oh, so you're taking a sarcastic post seriously, now? (Here's a hint: No one actually gives a shit what you have to say concerning what Trump's base thinks)."


Pretty much this regarding the base. It’s bizarre he thinks we don’t know that Trumps base will like what Trump does. It’s also bizarre to think Trumps base can be won over. It’s... impossible. They are irrelevant. It’s not any bigger, though, than the Democrat base that will also vote for any D.

Trump’s only chance is to peel back some of the suburban women that defined the 2018 mid-terms. If he doesn’t, he loses.

[Edited on June 2, 2020 at 4:38 PM. Reason : X]

6/2/2020 4:34:54 PM

A Tanzarian
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Trump says he was inspecting the bunker, not hiding in it.

6/3/2020 12:10:18 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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What a well-timed inspection!

6/3/2020 12:21:07 PM

synapse
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hahahaha

6/3/2020 12:39:24 PM

HCH
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I will be so extremely disappointed if Biden doesn't absolutely pound Trump about hiding in a bunker while protesters were at his front door. I mean anytime Trump tries to convey his tough guy persona, Biden just needs to absolutely obliterate him with this.

6/3/2020 1:25:57 PM

bbehe
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I don't understand that statement

"Out of an abundance of caution, the Secret Service wanted me in the bunker until they determined there was no threat" or something turns it into a non issue. Why lie?

6/3/2020 3:40:40 PM

rwoody
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Extreme narcissm combined with low intelligence and a decaying brain prob

6/3/2020 4:12:23 PM

rwoody
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He's supposedly 244 lbs lol

Like when 90 yr olds die their whole head of hair jet black, like a give me some salt and pepper at least to help me suspend my disbelief!

6/3/2020 4:39:05 PM

horosho
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He puts out these little things to get you to attack him repeatedly so that when you attack him over something important, it can be dismissed as your normal response. How long will it continue to work?

Quote :
"This is semantics and it’s likely you just misspoke but it’s a big distinction; but that is 30-40% of likely voters, not of the country. And at least 40% of the population would vote for a potato with a D next to his name."

Its two different things. Electorally, its a very large portion of the country. Using total numbers skews the state of the election. Likely voters is also different than turnout. Passion is going to help determine how much of the country turns out and Trump's antics are essentially topping off his base's passion each day. This is why he wants to stop mail in ballots. They will reduce the importance of passion.

Quote :
"It’s also bizarre to think Trumps base can be won over. It’s... impossible. They are irrelevant. It’s not any bigger, though, than the Democrat base that will also vote for any D."

He won them over, didn't he? He can lose them too if he pivoted or took his foot off the MAGA gas. Just like the people he got them from did. Can we please start including events that took place before 2017.

Its smaller but more passionate and more impactful electorally. Its a tortoise and hare mindset to think writing off enough of the country to put Trump near the finish line is a good idea. Its gives you no margin of error in November.
Quote :
"Trump’s only chance is to peel back some of the suburban women that defined the 2018 mid-terms. If he doesn’t, he loses."

I agree and this was my point about his response to the protests. I'm seeing it happen online.

Quote :
" No other POTUS in history, not even Nixon, cared so little about so many and blatantly showed it."

Its almost like you are basing this on the things they say and other meaningless signals. My whole thing is that Trump is only unique in not masking his true self. You're also missing the inverse. No president I know of has cared so MUCH about his supporters and blatantly showed it. Two sides of the same coin.



[Edited on June 3, 2020 at 5:03 PM. Reason : lot of liberals on fb are acting like obama wasn't all about police militarization ]

[Edited on June 3, 2020 at 5:10 PM. Reason : trump's antics are exactly why his base is firmly in hand]


[Edited on June 3, 2020 at 5:14 PM. Reason : hyperedit]

6/3/2020 4:55:56 PM

rwoody
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^^^adam serwer:
Quote :
"The funniest thing about the bunker story is Trump’s fear of looking weak means can be baited, over and over, into denying that he hid in a bunker and thus reminding everyone he hid in a bunker "

6/3/2020 5:04:11 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
""Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try, instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society.""


-Former Defense Secretary James Mattis

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/mattis-trump-statement

6/3/2020 6:38:39 PM

moron
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Quote :
" My whole thing is that Trump is only unique in not masking his true self."


Huh? You think trump is a religious person that cares about poor white people? He has complete contempt for Americans that aren’t wealthy or famous and white. Look at the smile when he’s around Kanye west— you can tell trump hates Black people even when they’re rich, and trump is amused any black person actually thinks he likes them.

The only genuine thing about trump is that he doesn’t hide his racism. He pardoned joe arpaio, he keeps Stephen Miller in power, he wish more republicans were like Steve king. Otherwise his entire persona is a lie.

6/3/2020 6:39:34 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"My whole thing is that Trump is only unique in not masking his true self."



I can say this, I can say that at least you're not masking the fact that you're a fucking moron.

6/3/2020 6:47:23 PM

horosho
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Quote :
"-Former Defense Secretary James Mattis"

I have two important questions for you guys on this. (and a 3rd joke question)

1. Did he realize who Donald Trump was before or after resigning/being fired/not being able to continue the establishment's foreign policy? Before or after deciding to work for him? Before or after he made who he was as a politician clear to everyone in 2015.

2. When he says 'these are the consequences of 3 years of Trump', what consequences is he referring to? American people being in the street united against inequality??? Police brutality??? Racism???

3. Is James Mattis an accelerationist?

Quote :
"you can tell trump hates Black people even when they’re rich, and trump is amused any black person actually thinks he likes them."

Trump is a racist make no mistake but being a racist is a lot more complicated than "hating all black people". Trump has black friends and props just like racist liberals. I don't know how you can read into specific things in his thoughts beyond his words and actions. I'm saying he is unique in his words but not his actions and you seem to be arguing that his inner thoughts and true heart is unique. I don't know how you can know that when everyone else is filtering everything they say. Do you really think Trump is a uniquely racist president?

Quote :
"Huh? You think trump is a religious person that cares about poor white people? "

No. I think Trump is a politician who pursues the conservative/christian/nationalist, agenda they want at all costs and without apology or political correctness and its not "poor white people" because they don't identify that way but yeah that demographic is included and there are a lot more across all levels of income.

It doesn't matter if that is who he is personally because that is who he is as POTUS and theres 3 years of policy and appointments to back that up with only a few occasional discrepancies.

[Edited on June 3, 2020 at 8:08 PM. Reason : mattis is a joke]

6/3/2020 8:06:36 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"I have two important questions for you guys on this. (and a 3rd joke question)

1. Did he realize who Donald Trump was before or after resigning/being fired/not being able to continue the establishment's foreign policy? Before or after deciding to work for him? Before or after he made who he was as a politician clear to everyone in 2015.

2. When he says 'these are the consequences of 3 years of Trump', what consequences is he referring to? American people being in the street united against inequality??? Police brutality??? Racism???

3. Is James Mattis an accelerationist?"



Why do you consider these to be important questions to us? I can see some importance asking these questions of Mattis, but not of us.

6/3/2020 8:59:03 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
" My whole thing is that Trump is only unique in not masking his true self."


...followed by....

Quote :
"It doesn't matter if that is who he is personally"



You think who he is personally doesn't matter with regard to whether or not he's masking his true self????

LOL!!

Fucking moron

6/4/2020 4:07:35 AM

NyM410
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Earl likes to yell about how no one remembers anything pre-2017 but it’s patently obvious to someone like me who grew up around early-90’s NYC that he has no clue about Donald Trump before he was the actor on The Apprentice. Sadly, he’s fallen for a character that is a bit that is still going on.

The real Trump has absolutely contempt for his base. Utter contempt. He’s also a multi-timed failed businessman, an in your face misogynist, a subtle but obvious racist and absolutely OBSESSED with getting MSM and liberal (small l — doesn’t matter if R or D) elite praise.

[Edited on June 4, 2020 at 7:47 AM. Reason : Also, he wanted to abort his only normal kid — Tiffany]

6/4/2020 7:46:42 AM

horosho
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Well my analysis of Trump's base is not based on my own beliefs about Trump but based on long term in-depth discussions with Trump supporters. I always knew three things about Trump. He was very rich, he wanted the CP5 executed, and he had racist housing practices.

They are aware of who he was/is a person and don't care about that. Its irrelevant to who he is as a politician. He had immigrants working at his hotels but that doesn't matter because he's anti-immigration politician. They don't care about if he lives the ideology as long as he uses the office to push that agenda. He doesn't go to church but he fights off the "war on christianity".

I agree with them that it should be irrelevant so that makes it easier for me to understand where they are coming from.

Hypothetical : If (former oil exec) was president and put in a full blown green new deal (with no regard for how much the right hated it) while eating steaks and flying people around on private jets, I wouldn't give a shit because he provided the political vehicle for the agenda he lives in contradiction to.

Conversely, I think Obama is a great man in his personal life and great social advocate but I don't support him as a politician because as president, he did some things I just can't overlook. If it was my fake oil exec vs Obama, I'd choose the oil exec hands down.

In conclusion, Trump may not like them, but its irrelevant. He doesn't have to like them. He only has to do right by them politically (fences). Also, the country is/was divided. The president cannot unite the country. That idea is based upon a myth that needed to be dispelled anyway. The president can only pretend to or not pretend to unite the country.

[Edited on June 4, 2020 at 1:59 PM. Reason : i'd take a leftist version of trump any day]

6/4/2020 1:55:44 PM

utowncha
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you could write a thesis about this dude

6/4/2020 1:57:17 PM

Cabbage
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^^If you were actually paying attention, you'd know the relevant question concerns the ability of a president to divide (not unite) the country.

And don't give me that bullshit that the country was already divided. We know that you fucking moron. What is concerning is that the division is growing.

6/4/2020 2:23:08 PM

bbehe
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[Edited on June 4, 2020 at 7:50 PM. Reason : Double post]

6/4/2020 7:49:40 PM

bbehe
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Announcing he will endorse anyone, good or bad, over Murkowski. Only qualification is a pulse

6/4/2020 7:49:41 PM

rwoody
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Chances he remembers that in 2 years?

6/4/2020 8:54:36 PM

horosho
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I feel like cabbage's post goes against what NYM was saying.

If people are turning on Trump then he is actually uniting the country against himself.
If the divide is growing, then where are the people being divided away from the main group going if they aren't going to Trump?

6/5/2020 10:32:24 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"I feel like cabbage's post goes against what NYM was saying."


No, it doesn't. You're welcome to elaborate on your intended meaning. You will still be wrong, however.

Quote :
"If people are turning on Trump then he is actually uniting the country against himself. "


I've seen no evidence of people turning in great enough numbers for this to be true. Do you have evidence otherwise? Like, have you seen a significant portion of his base turning against him? Didn't think so.

Quote :
"If the divide is growing, then where are the people being divided away from the main group going if they aren't going to Trump?"


You do realize, do you not, that you are simply ignoring a huge fucking metric of division? It can't be reduced to simply x% for this vs y% against that.

Say we have a division of 55% to 45% over some particular issue. In a scenario where the two groups coexist peacefully, there is less division than in a scenario where the exact same two groups are fighting an all out civil war.

You fucking moron

6/6/2020 2:19:39 AM

Cabbage
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And, of course, the dumbass completely ignores what I pointed out as the relevant question: The ability of a president to divide the country.

Leave it to a goddamn boot licking Trump apologist to not have the balls to engage in debate in good faith.

6/6/2020 2:22:39 AM

horosho
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Quote :
"I've seen no evidence of people turning in great enough numbers for this to be true. Do you have evidence otherwise? Like, have you seen a significant portion of his base turning against him? Didn't think so"

I said if. I don't know either way and am just entertaining ideas that have been put forward. NYM insinuated that Trump has lost suburban women. I guess he's going by polling and random little elections from 2018 but ask him. its his point.

Quote :
"And, of course, the dumbass completely ignores what I pointed out as the relevant question: The ability of a president to divide the country."

How do you know he is driving said division and not simply exposing it. I'd agree that he is pulling back the curtain on division but I feel like all of that devision was already here. Kap was pissing people off kneeling over police shootings when obama was the president calling Baltimore rioters thugs. Democrats were building border fences and caging kids. White nationalists were marching.

I'd really love to know what new division Trump has created because you haven't sold it. Until then, my position is that Trump is simply exposing pre-existing division that has a magnitude you weren't previously aware of so now you think he's making it bigger. How do you know you aren't just finding out its bigger because Trump is the president?

Think about it this way. If its just one issue and that issue was that people were literally taking babies into clinics having them picked apart and thrown away and they were doing it on a massive scale, there is not amount of further division you could get from the people who advocated for that. That is where we were in this country. No president can unite people who think babies are being killed with the people they think want to kill the babies.

At worst, I'd say he's good accelerationism by exposing our division and at best, he's uniting a big chunk of the country against himself.

[Edited on June 6, 2020 at 4:08 AM. Reason : obama had em "the neighbors are baby killers but its alright they put their socks on just like us"?]

6/6/2020 4:05:42 AM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"I said if. I don't know either way and am just entertaining ideas that have been put forward. NYM insinuated that Trump has lost suburban women. I guess he's going by polling and random little elections from 2018 but ask him. its his point. "


I saw what you said, and like I said, "If people are turning on Trump" is insufficient to support the claim the country is reuniting--You need a rather significant portion of his base to turn, far more than just "If people are turning".

Regarding Trump and division: I know he's driving division because he says and does divisive things, you fucking moron. I never claimed Trump created new division, I'm saying he's further exploiting preexisting divisions, which leads us to be more divided, dumbass.

And remember a few days ago when I called you out for being condescending, saying things like, "I'm the only one here who....." and you challenged me to back it up? Well, you're doing it again right now, you fucking moron:

" Until then, my position is that Trump is simply exposing pre-existing division that has a magnitude you weren't previously aware of so now you think he's making it bigger."

...which completely ignores the divisive things Trump says and does (which, incidentally, is how I know I'm not just "just finding out its bigger because Trump is the president", you condescending fucking moron.).

But yeah, sure, I'm not paying attention and you know oh so much more about the division in this country because you're super smart, like, the smartest and most aware person ever, aren't you, you fucking moron??? And yet, meanwhile, all of the divisive things Trump says and does somehow slips right past you. Fucking moron.

6/6/2020 7:18:34 AM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"obama had em "the neighbors are baby killers but its alright they put their socks on just like us""



You got a cite for that Obama quote, or are you just lying again, dumbass?

6/6/2020 7:20:25 AM

Cabbage
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Dear horosho,

And you know, the funny thing is that you've somehow convinced yourself that you are in a position worthy of being condescending to anyone, whilst simultaneously being so fucking ignorant that you thing the only metric of division is simply x% for and y% against.

That's hilariously stupid, you fucking moron. LMFAO

6/6/2020 7:26:36 AM

NyM410
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Quote :
"I said if. I don't know either way and am just entertaining ideas that have been put forward. NYM insinuated that Trump has lost suburban women. I guess he's going by polling and random little elections from 2018 but ask him. its his point."


Jesus fucking Christ. Is this is a real post?

I’m not doing your homework. Did 2018 not exist (inevitable post saying Trump wasn’t on ballot coming like there was some massive swath of voters who voted Dem in 2018 who are itching to rush back to pull the lever for Trump despite all polling showing the opposite for two full years).

[Edited on June 6, 2020 at 8:03 AM. Reason : Crazy town]

6/6/2020 8:03:11 AM

Cabbage
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Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention:

Quote :
"How do you know he is driving said division and not simply exposing it."


While I stand by my claim that Trump is dividing the country, that wasn't really the intent of my question (which you have yet to answer ):

The question wasn't whether Trump is dividing the country (among other things, learn to read you fucking retard). You said, " The president cannot unite the country."

I'm asking you if you think a president (any president) can divide the country. Because with this administration I'm past fucking caring about the president uniting the country. It's not gonna happen. I'm more concerned with the president dividing the country even more.

Do you think he can?.

Incidentally, I know the answer (as I think I've made clear). I'm just curious what a fucking retard like you actually believes.

6/6/2020 8:52:25 AM

horosho
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Quote :
""If people are turning on Trump" is insufficient to support the claim the country is reuniting--You need a rather significant portion of his base to turn, far more than just "If people are turning"."

So he's further dividing a previously divided group that makes up less than "most of the country"? Then what is happening to everyone else?

Quote :
" I'm saying he's further exploiting preexisting divisions, which leads us to be more divided"

I'm confused how he could exploit divisions, make the country more divided, and not benefit from that.

Quote :
"...which completely ignores the divisive things Trump says and does (which, incidentally, is how I know I'm not just "just finding out its bigger because Trump is the president", you condescending fucking moron.)."

So you want me to assume you're right just because you made an unsubstantiated statement? Instead of turning up, why not just explain how one or some things he said that made people more divided. Just because he's the first president to say divisive things and people are divided doesn't mean he made that division worse. All of the worst things Ive heard him say (nice people on both sides, sending rapists, shithole countries ) were not only things that were already going on before, but they were represented in US policy long before 2017 and being said out in the open by a lot of people.

I'm especially confused because 2017 was the first time I started hearing most people speak out against these things, which fuels the accelerationist argument that Trump is uniting us against himself. So many people suddenly cares about climate change, human rights at the border, and police brutality. I remember feeling so isolated advocating for those things in 2012-2015 and now its socially unacceptable to find someone in a big city who isn't.

Quote :
"But yeah, sure, I'm not paying attention and you know oh so much more about the division in this country because you're super smart, like, the smartest and most aware person ever, aren't you, you fucking moron??? And yet, meanwhile, all of the divisive things Trump says and does somehow slips right past you. Fucking moron."

You made up a lot of things here that I never said. My point has always been to ask you guys questions and hypothetical because I don't know what you're talking about. I'm only aware of what I'm already aware of and can only make my conclusions based on the information I have. I'm here because I know I am ignorant. To gain more information from a different perspective and broaden my understanding.

Divisive thins Trump says do slip right past me and heres some examples why.

Every time we have a mass shooting, even after the 5 year olds got shot, and there is a discussion of gun bans, 2nd amendment people say "I need a gun to protect my property if someone breaks in". That used to shock me long ago because I thought it was just for self/family defense but learned that it was usually for property defense too. This country has a long history of race riots and when there has been widespread looting, there has also been shooting. Store owners were already armed in stores in my town when he said that so "if you try to take my shit, I will shoot you" was a concept I thought was already widespread. People have had guns to shoot "thugs" and Obama called the looters "thugs".

Quote :
" you thing the only metric of division is simply x% for and y% against."

Thats the only one that has been substantiated in the context of Trump but I'm open to more.

Quote :
"ike there was some massive swath of voters who voted Dem in 2018 who are itching to rush back to pull the lever for Trump despite all polling showing the opposite for two full years)."

No one's vote has to change. Different people voted. Different people stayed home. One example is that a larger % of the 2018 electorate was young people. Turnout did not increase so theres probably a lot of Trump people who stayed home. I think its safe to assume that the 2020 electorate will be larger and different than 2018. A lot of Trump supporters don't like republicans which is why trump won in the first place and why republican congress is so afraid of him.

[Edited on June 6, 2020 at 1:17 PM. Reason : my position has always been that he's playing chess by taking advantage of preexisting divisions ]

6/6/2020 1:16:45 PM

Cabbage
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1333 Posts
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Quote :
"So he's further dividing a previously divided group that makes up less than "most of the country"? Then what is happening to everyone else? "


Are you trying to even make a point? What happens to his stable base is not the sole subject of whether or not he's dividing the country. What is happening to everyone else? They're getting more pissed off at Trump, while his base are still bootlickers--increasing the division between the two groups.

You fucking moron

Quote :
"I'm confused how he could exploit divisions, make the country more divided, and not benefit from that."


How the fuck is "benefit from that" even related to the question of division, you fucking moron? I don't give one good fuck about whether he benefits or not--The point is simply that he's dividing the country.

Stay on topic you fucking moron

Quote :
"So you want me to assume you're right just because you made an unsubstantiated statement? Instead of turning up, why not just explain how one or some things he said that made people more divided. Just because he's the first president to say divisive things and people are divided doesn't mean he made that division worse. All of the worst things Ive heard him say (nice people on both sides, sending rapists, shithole countries ) were not only things that were already going on before, but they were represented in US policy long before 2017 and being said out in the open by a lot of people. "


But they weren't said openly by presidents. Find me a president that openly said, "You have to dominate them" as a response protests over police brutality. Find me a president that openly tear gassed a peaceful crowd to arrange a Bible photo-op.

You keep arguing as if we were born in 2017 in order to defend the bullshit that Trump says or does. Yes, we know that there were shitloads of issues before Trump. That doesn't imply we should simply roll over and kiss Trump's ass, pretending any president has acted like this before, you fucking moron

Quote :
"I'm especially confused because 2017 was the first time I started hearing most people speak out against these things, which fuels the accelerationist argument that Trump is uniting us against himself. So many people suddenly cares about climate change, human rights at the border, and police brutality. I remember feeling so isolated advocating for those things in 2012-2015 and now its socially unacceptable to find someone in a big city who isn't."


Wow. And you act as if we're the ones that forget the BTE (Before Trump Era).

I, on the other hand, remember Occupy Wall Street. The Michael Brown protests. The Freddie Gray protests.

Do you not remember those, you fucking moron?

This particular part:

Quote :
"which fuels the accelerationist argument that Trump is uniting us against himself."


No. I do think more people have become aware of problems that Trump has been more conspicuous about, yes. But have you seen any noticeable shrinkage of his base? No, the result is simply a ratcheting up of the tensions between Trump resisters and the Trump bootlickers such as yourself, you fucking moron (ie, more division).

Quote :
"You made up a lot of things here that I never said. My point has always been to ask you guys questions and hypothetical because I don't know what you're talking about. I'm only aware of what I'm already aware of and can only make my conclusions based on the information I have. I'm here because I know I am ignorant. To gain more information from a different perspective and broaden my understanding."


Bullshit. I am describing how you present yourself. I didn't make up "a lot of things here that I never said", in fact, in that paragraph I wasn't quoting you at all.

You fucking moron

Quote :
"Divisive thins Trump says do slip right past me and heres some examples why.

Every time we have a mass shooting, even after the 5 year olds got shot, and there is a discussion of gun bans, 2nd amendment people say "I need a gun to protect my property if someone breaks in". That used to shock me long ago because I thought it was just for self/family defense but learned that it was usually for property defense too. This country has a long history of race riots and when there has been widespread looting, there has also been shooting. Store owners were already armed in stores in my town when he said that so "if you try to take my shit, I will shoot you" was a concept I thought was already widespread. People have had guns to shoot "thugs" and Obama called the looters "thugs". "


Already addressed, sparky. Have a couple of representative examples again:

"But they weren't said openly by presidents. Find me a president that openly said, "You have to dominate them" as a response protests over police brutality. Find me a president that openly tear gassed a peaceful crowd to arrange a Bible photo-op."

Quote :
"Thats the only one that has been substantiated in the context of Trump but I'm open to more."


Well, just go back and read the examples of Trump doing and saying divisive things, you fucking retard.

Quote :
"my position has always been that he's playing chess by taking advantage of preexisting divisions"


I'm not gonna argue whether I think you're right on that or I think you're just a fucking retard, I'll just say: And a consequence is the tensions and divisions among Americans get worse as a result.

You fucking retard

6/6/2020 5:51:50 PM

Cabbage
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1333 Posts
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Here's a paraphrase of how horosho is coming across:

Sure, he's exploiting preexisting divisions among Americans, but it's OK because that's his strategy. I don't give a fuck if Americans are more divided under Trump, in fact, I will argue they haven't, so long as what's important really happens: Trump benefits

You fucking retard

6/6/2020 5:56:36 PM

Cabbage
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1333 Posts
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Another paraphrase:

Everybody Else: We should be concerned over what is happening in 2020 today

horosho: Actually, these things have been happening for a while, so you should really be concerned over what happened in 1968



Quit deflecting to the past in order to dodge honest discussion of the present, you fucking retard

6/6/2020 6:05:02 PM

Cabbage
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I think this is a good way to frame horosho's bullshit:

It's like he wants to present a purity test for everyone before they are qualified to complain about Trump.

If you haven't been campaigning for a response to climate change for decades, don't bother signing up: horosho doesn't want you.

If you haven't been campaigning against police brutality for decades, don't bother signing up: horosho doesn't want you.

If you haven't been campaigning for humane treatments of immigrants and refugees for decades, don't bother signing up: horosho doesn't want you.


You've got to be pure before you can be horosho's ally. He's far more interested in presenting a Woke image than the actual Woke cause.

If your heart truly is in the right place (and I sincerely question that, honestly), then quit bitching about how some people didn't bother to advocate for these before Trump--Just be thankful they're there.

And no, you don't get to credit Trump for that, either:

horosho: Hey, I'm really glad you poisoned our water supply with lead. This'll make sure people really pay attention to the safety of our water supply from now on!!! Hey guys, don't be angry with the lead poisoners--Water quality has always been an issue!!! You should be thanking the lead poisoners for drawing attention to water quality!!



That's really how you're coming across here

You fucking retard

(Yes, I've taken some liberties with presentation, but it's a pretty fucking accurate portrayal of my perception of you)

6/6/2020 6:41:54 PM

acraw
All American
9257 Posts
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Who runs his tweets? I never seen anything like this, from a Pres at least. And I don't know any geriatrics who are up past 8pm, sometimes i'll see tweets after midnight.

6/6/2020 8:51:35 PM

Crede
All American
7323 Posts
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Any other modern message board by now would have banned Cabbage and horosho by now. They are obvious trolls.

6/6/2020 8:53:12 PM

synapse
play so hard
59293 Posts
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Well, one is an actual troll.

The other keeps calling for the trolls and feeding the troll.

Both distract from helpful discourse.

6/6/2020 10:17:59 PM

horosho
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1634 Posts
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Trump's base doesn't believe things because Trump says them. Its quite the opposite. Trump says these things because his base believes them. He's saying those things to show them he is their politician. They already had those beliefs (and thus division) for a very long time. Other presidents didn't say things like that but that doesn't mean they weren't said. These are the types of things millions of people say on a daily basis. Trump didn't "teach" them these things. Obama doesn't talk like anyone you would ever meet outside of an elite academic setting. Trump talks like the joe at your local bar. You can't divide people further by telling them what they already believe. You act like conservatives were hateful but hesitant until someone with the title president said it too.
Quote :
"But they weren't said openly by presidents. Find me a president that openly said, "You have to dominate them" as a response protests over police brutality. Find me a president that openly tear gassed a peaceful crowd to arrange a Bible photo-op."

I don't see how saying it matters if they are doing it. I don't think the things they say mean shit. Its all about actions and policy. Wait until the next GOP president. You will see. They will talk nice and be even more extreme than Trump on policy.

The president doesn't personally use teargas but no other president tried to make it illegal for teargas to be used on peaceful crowds so I'd be surprised if there was a president where no teargas was used "on their watch". I also don't see how the pepper balls hit any different in that particular scenario than teargas anywhere else in the country. Its awful yet completely normal for crowds "in the way" to be teargassed. American police use teargas everywhere. That wasn't even the first time it happened that day. The marketing of it is all thats different with Trump.

Quote :
"I, on the other hand, remember Occupy Wall Street. The Michael Brown protests. The Freddie Gray protests.

Do you not remember those, you fucking moron?"

None of those were as big and diverse as what we have now because the people Trump woke up were still sleeping.
Quote :
"If your heart truly is in the right place (and I sincerely question that, honestly), then quit bitching about how some people didn't bother to advocate for these before Trump--Just be thankful they're there."

You're really close to getting it. The problem is not about the past but the future. The past is evidence that they will go back to not caring once Trump is gone and thats a huge problem I can see happening already. I want them to show up now and stay and that means fight the actual systems without making it about trump who will be long gone in 1-5 years. Trump is a symptom of our division, not the cause. All you've done is state correlation but have the cause and affect backwards.



[Edited on June 7, 2020 at 2:23 AM. Reason : i only defended trump on pulling out]

6/7/2020 2:16:00 AM

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