Sanders
Warren (even though she's pulling rat moves against my dude)
Steyer (but would hate myself for it)

reposting for this page bc it's mindblowingly bad https://twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/1217277148916002823

[Edited on January 14, 2020 at 11:24 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2020 11:18:00 PM

LOL you're never going to guess who CNN is saying won the debate.

"This isn't just a he said she said story, this is an actual story that CNN reported so Bernie can't just deny saying what he said"

Man I wish CNN would get shut down.

Top3:

Sanders
Yang
Tulsi

[Edited on January 14, 2020 at 11:22 PM. Reason : there aint 3 ]

[Edited on January 14, 2020 at 11:23 PM. Reason : the 1990 election was 29 years and 2 months ago]

1/14/2020 11:18:19 PM

Quote :

"the 1990 election was 29 years and 2 months ago"

don't worry, WaPo will definitely issue a fact check on this

1/14/2020 11:25:22 PM

Are you guys watching this post debate? Its worse than I could have ever imagined. They are even saying that she did so great and brought back everyone's memory about how Bernie didn't do enough to help Hillary in 2016. They are praising Warren for not trying to go back and forth with Bernie about what he said. saying she was "the bigger person" and "let it go" . They are saying "her debate performance was a grenade rolled into the sanders campaign"

Fox has never been anywhere near this bad. At least they leave the crazy bias to the personalities in the character led namesake shows.


[Edited on January 14, 2020 at 11:47 PM. Reason : If only there was someone with a lot of power who could call out CNN for being trash ]

1/14/2020 11:29:42 PM

^^^
Here’s the video of that. Anderson Cooper reeled it back in at least but still pretty nuts

https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1217301482854326273?s=21

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 12:15 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2020 12:13:41 AM

Warren's numbers on election victories make zero sense. Biden and Sanders have been around longer than her and have fought much bigger battles before. Furthermore, why is she using her gender as a way to shame the men for the fact that they have lost races in the past? So coming back from defeat and continuing to fight and improve is suddenly a quality that should be frowned upon?

Not a big fan of that comment.

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 1:52 AM. Reason : s]

1/15/2020 1:35:01 AM

Quote :

"So you're arguing the current setup is optimal? Public welfare is equally weighed against the need for R&D dollars and corporate profits?"

Big Pharma is one of the most misunderstood global entities that exists in the modern world. It takes millions upon millions of dollars to discover, design, synthesize, test for biology, mass produce, test again (preclinical and then clinical trials), and then test the stability of the packaging and the delivery mechanism before it even gets to the market. And if that drug doesn't past FDA regulations, then the company collects zero dollars in profit from it. So, yeah, that is a metric ton of overhead that has to be made back somewhere in order for the pharmaceutical industry to stay afloat. It's just the nature of the game. Drugs are expensive because of how delicate and serious the SOPs and regulations are to ensure that it wont have a negative effect on the consumer.

If you start changing the price of a drug solely so that it begins to accurately reflect how much it takes to make that particular drug, then pharma as a business wont be able to keep producing drugs. Not by a long shot. That money to support the RandD for all of the viable drug targets, even the ones that eventually fail (and believe me a ton of them do because the science behind it is still to this day poorly understood), has to come from somewhere.

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 1:51 AM. Reason : a]

1/15/2020 1:47:16 AM

Sanders campaign admits it lied about the anti-Warren script and they were used in an official capacity.
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/01/14/sanders-admits-anti-warren-script-early-states-098786

No wonder Warren went ahead and burnt that bridge to this two faced liar.

It makes me wonder what else the sanders campaign has lied about (Hint: it’s those fake Dr’s notes he released a couple weeks ago telling us he’s “50% better than the average 78 yr old man!!!”

1/15/2020 7:42:19 AM

who were the alleged witnesses to his supposedly sexist conversation

just more anonymous garbage i assume

1/15/2020 7:47:57 AM

Quote :

"This is probably a good juncture for us to list our current top 3 for this primary. Mine is: Sanders Warren Buttigieg"

1. Sanders
2. Nobody else has a chance to beat Trump

1/15/2020 7:49:33 AM

For February they'll probably fabricate a story about Sanders being an anti-semite

1/15/2020 8:21:17 AM

also, could TerdFerguson explain the problem with that script? i feel like it's being conflated with the fake women can't win thing.

1/15/2020 10:06:00 AM

My top 3:
1 Yang
2 Biden
3 Warren

1/15/2020 10:16:42 AM

1. Sanders
2. Warren
3. Unsure, not much of a fan of anyone else. Maybe Steyer if I had to pick?

1/15/2020 10:22:56 AM

Does anyone finally see why I was unsure about Warren all along? Her antics just handed Biden the nomination. I gave her pass after pass and had been saying I would still vote for her as long as she didn't do anything else awful. Well last night was the straw that broke the camel's back. O you were friends with a sexist all this time? If she's not intentionally working for Biden, she accidentally is.

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 10:27 AM. Reason : DNC playbook to hold a story for years and release it right before an election.]

1/15/2020 10:24:48 AM

gtfoh, you straight up said you wouldn't vote for her if she was the nominee

1/15/2020 10:30:32 AM

^You've got me confused with someone else again.
https://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=648215&page=53#16554669

Quote :

"Bernie: "OMW" (100% has my vote) Yang: "I mean, I'm down" (would have my vote if he wins) Warren: "Who else is going" (firm vote unless she pivots even further right) Tulsi: "DTF?" (As long as shes "down to fight" for progressive issues, I'd be in) Booker: "I'll meet up with you over there" (maybe ill decide to vote for him later if he moves left but I'll most likely pass out on my couch early) Buttigeig: "HET" (tulsi will take care of him) Amy: "who dis" (should i vote socialist or green?) Biden: "A vote for Biden is a vote for Trump" (Why not start this? it makes more sense than similar quotes because they are actually similar)"

Now I see why you still like her tho

1/15/2020 10:37:45 AM

nope, we know who you are

Quote :

"I was considering voting for Warren in the general but this video talked me out of it."

-horosho on not voting for warren if she got the nomination (post is from 9/24/2019 1:10:26 PM)

and since you didn't vote for clinton when she got the nomination, no reason to not believe you

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 10:52 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2020 10:51:04 AM

Well you're just taking things out of context. She went from the "would definitely vote for" group at the top to the "might voter for undecided" at the post you're talking about. All of my ranking posts had 3 groups and she was never in the "would never vote for" category until now.

This is what you do though.

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 10:57 AM. Reason : the parralel of just ignoring everything i've ever said and looking at one convo in isolation. ]

1/15/2020 10:55:35 AM

https://twitter.com/elivalley/status/1217318753387499520

NYT manufacturing that consent

Bernie raised $1.7 mil last night

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 10:57 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2020 10:56:34 AM

Quote :

"and since you didn't vote for Clinton when she got the nomination, no reason to not believe you"

Not voting for Clinton was easy from a left perspective. There was never any doubt or wonder about what Hillary was or if she would get my vote. At least she was upfront about that.

Warren makes it much more difficult because on one hand she has touted these policies that are further left than any president we've ever seen. Even though she has moved to the right on healthcare, she still projects an impressive progressive agenda and does good mouth service to progressive ideals. The issue with Warren is and always has been honesty. At some point you just have to look at all the evidence and conclude that this is the kind of person she is. She will lie and say anything to advance her career. If you make that conclusion, then you have to look at the healthcare pivot in the context of who she is and question if her entire platform has genuine intent or not. Someone being lied to has right to be conflicted.

Theres just too many cases of her taking the image of whatever she needs to be to advance. Even Hillary was more honorable than that. Hillary was never truly the problem anyway (pre2016). It was always her supporters who frankly, are the same people pushing Warren's bullshit today. A lot of them are not progressive at all and are who the script said they were. They want to act progressive for political gain but they don't really want to make any sacrifices on behalf of policy when things get tough. They are smart enough to know that their beliefs are unpopular so they masquerade behind ours.


[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM. Reason : we let her get away with so many lies already but lying to hurt bernie was definitely a red line]

1/15/2020 12:33:40 PM

horosho would rather Trump than Warren. Got it.

Quote :

"All this arguing about behind the scenes aids he said she said is annoying and pointless."

I am more and more convinced that a non-issue is being flamed by corporate media against the two most anti-corporation candidates. If their alliance breaks, Biden wins. And that's exactly what CNN wants.

1/15/2020 12:46:21 PM

Warren planned a whole She Persisted moment out of this for the debate. This is all on her and her campaign.

1/15/2020 12:49:41 PM

Quote :

"also, could TerdFerguson explain the problem with that script? i feel like it's being conflated with the fake women can't win thing. "

The Sanders Campaign broke the non-aggression pact by sending its canvassers out to trash Warren. They then lied or obfuscated about rogue employees and preliminary scripts for 1.5 days (including daaave in this very thread). They then spent 1.5 days continually trashing Warren for being a liar and a snake, all while openly lying about their own script.

Just screaming hypocrisy, yet rose twitter will ignore it completely so that Bernie can be anointed.

1/15/2020 2:23:21 PM

I did not lie, I did not receive that script.

The campaign didn’t lie either. They took a day to confirm the story. Bernie doesn’t personally approve every volunteer script.

Btw nothing in that script was bad or wrong, but it was a bad call bc of how it would be interpreted. It was barely used and pulled quickly.

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 2:41 PM. Reason : Also the snake thing started bc of the “woman can’t be president” lie]

1/15/2020 2:38:12 PM

Quote :

"The Sanders Campaign broke the non-aggression pact by sending its canvassers out to trash Warren. They then lied or obfuscated about rogue employees and preliminary scripts for 1.5 days (including daaave in this very thread). They then spent 1.5 days continually trashing Warren for being a liar and a snake, all while openly lying about their own script. "

how is the script trashing warren?

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 2:40 PM. Reason : which was my unanswered original question]

1/15/2020 2:39:22 PM

It claimed Warren could only attract the rich and powerful, it was a direct effort to kneecap Warren’s main message of fighting corruption and the corrupting influences in our government/economic system.

This is more significant than just “drawing distinctions” or “reading polling” as that message is the cornerstone of Warren’s campaign and key to her strategy. It’d be the equivalent of Warren staffers claiming Bernie’s Super PAC (Our Revolution) accepted 6 digit donations from undisclosed entities (FYI it did in 2016, 2017, and 2018).

And again, if the contents of the script are “no big deal” then why did Bernie immediately apologize, lie about a rogue staffer, and then later pull the script from the field? He knew it was bad and against their pact immediately.


^^ it’s really not your fault the Sanders campaign let you twist in the wind while they got their story straight. However, there are a lot of immediate Sanders surrogates (and Bernie himself) that knew exactly what was happening and just let it ride for 1.5 days. A genuine apology is all I’m really looking for from them.

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 3:43 PM. Reason : Arrows]

1/15/2020 3:42:20 PM

My impression when watching the Warren and Sanders exchange during last night's debate was that Sanders made the comment that Warren claimed that he made.

1/15/2020 3:45:26 PM

How? He's denied making the comment multiple times.

1/15/2020 3:48:33 PM

I'm not sure how to qualify it, but the defensiveness of his response struck me as dishonest.

1/15/2020 3:54:22 PM

He asked her to run in 2016, and another candidate (Gabbard) has backed up him by saying he was supportive of her run.

I think he has a right to be upset about someone lying about or misrepresenting a conversation for political points.

1/15/2020 3:59:03 PM

Quote :

"It claimed Warren could only attract the rich and powerful, it was a direct effort to kneecap Warren’s main message of fighting corruption and the corrupting influences in our government/economic system."

this?:

Quote :

"The script instructs Sanders volunteers to tell voters leaning toward the Massachusetts senator that the “people who support her are highly-educated, more affluent people who are going to show up and vote Democratic no matter what” and that “she's bringing no new bases into the Democratic Party.” “I like Elizabeth Warren. [optional]” the script begins. “In fact, she’s my second choice. But here’s my concern about her.” It then pivots to the criticisms of Warren."

but it's true that her supporters are wealthier and higher educated, and some polls show her doing poorly with non-college educated voters or voters making <$50k, in the "if the candidate was ___" splits she also brings in fewer independents and republicans.

why do you characterize this as "trashing"

is any criticism trashing?

kinda related, is it "trashing" biden for sanders to highlight his record on iraq or social security?

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 4:21 PM. Reason : b]

1/15/2020 4:19:41 PM

It's attacking her electability instead of discussing policies, it's certainly negative campaigning at a minimum. If it was totally fine, the campaign wouldn't have have denied and Dave wouldn't have been in here blaming everyone but the campaign.

As for the situation this whole thing sucks. I certainly think that if the Warren campaign leaked this on orders (if it wasn't a "cynical ploy" in other words), it was a major miscalculation of modern media. To think you could ever retain control of the message. But I suspect this is much more likely to be a major miscommunication then a lie on either part, but nobody is interested in digging any deeper into specifics so who knows.

I will say it's very weird to keep referencing Hilary as proof that "I know a woman can win.". Bc, um, she lost. I could see a world where Bernie "drafted" Warren in 2015, then lived through 2016 and thought women could have far more challenges then he initially thought.

The gabbard thing is just more anecdotal info "he didn't say that to me therefore he never said it", kinda like Dave assuming the script was fake bc he didn't see it.

Also the 30 year thing was pretty silly on both sides, her team should have done better research and/or just said 25 instead of 30, but also bernie prob shouldnt have wasted time arguing the point.

I only watched half the debate (rest dvred) but I was surprised at many of Steyers answers, although his background makes them much more suspect.


Oh and to the media comment, I def agree that a) CNN sucks ass and b) they specifically have it in for Bernie

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 4:51 PM. Reason : E]

1/15/2020 4:42:46 PM

That's all pretty reasonable. I will admit I got some things wrong and there was some disinformation spread about the persuasion campaign.

Still, the most charitable interpretation of the "women can't win" assertion has Warren capitalizing on a character assassination on the debate stage against someone who is supposedly an ally. It was disappointing to see, and I hope not indicative of the rest of the campaign. Of course the #NeverWarren thing is stupid and Bernie people will absolutely vote for her if she wins.

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 4:56 PM. Reason : i'm pretty sure even horosho would come around]

1/15/2020 4:56:04 PM

^^^yes that is trashing Biden, but Biden doesn’t have a non-aggression pact with anyone (that we know of)

Again, as I said above, this is more than just reading some shitty poll as it cuts Warren’s message to the core, I think it’s easy to see how she could take it personally as fighting monied interest is the cornerstone of her political beliefs.

Do you think Bernie would fly off the handle if Warren sent her staff out to lead with the FACT that Our Revolution has accepted 6 digit donations from dark money entities in its past?

^^I agree it sucks. I take no pleasure in attacking Bernie or his campaign (again, despite all this, I’m voting Bernie in the NC primary if he is best positioned to beat Biden) but I disagree that the media is the most at fault here. I’d argue the entire situation devolved after Rose twitter shit a brick and started lashing out at anything and everything that questioned Saint Bernie. They’re out of control and reasonable people need to understand that a Bernie presidency is gonna make these people 100x worse.

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 5:04 PM. Reason : Arrows]

1/15/2020 5:02:57 PM

^^Yea i don't know how they expected it go, they must have had some naive/idealistic view of CNN. Without their mechanisms, this likely becomes more what they expect. A minor negative story that allows them to hit hard the "I'm a woman" talking points. But maybe I'm being too charitable to a candidate I support.

That post debate video of them, who knows what was said, but man it was depressing to watch. If Bernie gets the non I would hope that Warren was able to have some influence (monopolies, rules ie filibuster, etc) and vice versa, so i hope there isn't an unrepairable schism.

^the twitter behavior has been gross, but it's hard to base too much behavior on twitter since it's such a small percentage of the population and not super representative.

The replies to this tweet....
https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1217507556861579265?s=19

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 5:07 PM. Reason : R]

1/15/2020 5:03:20 PM

Quote :

"but it's hard to base too much behavior on twitter since it's such a small percentage of the population and not super representative. "

That’s what people said about all of the insane shit Trumpers and Russian bots were posting on-line in 2016, and now we literally have 10s of thousands (100s of thousands???) of Rickys running around spouting off about Qanon.

I’m not saying Rose twitter is that batshit yet, but it could easily become a slippery slope.

1/15/2020 5:30:06 PM

If you think it's limited to one camp of supporters, you're sorely mistaken, my friend.

1/15/2020 6:00:42 PM

It’s magnified because Bernie supporters are younger on average. And younger = more online.

[Edited on January 15, 2020 at 8:26 PM. Reason : And more passionate ]

1/15/2020 8:26:10 PM

Full disclosure I do not believe Sanders said anything remotely close to a woman could not win.

That was fucking bush league when sanders extended hand and warren held hands back.

Bootyitch definitely seemed too scripted last night. Seems like a Dukakis.

Biden and Klobachar(sp?) I don’t really like.

I’d vote for any above Trump, but 6 on stage last night, plus Yang, Bloomberg, etc are all underwhelming and don’t garner excitement from me.

Most exciting is Bernie, and he is like 80.

1/15/2020 8:58:57 PM

Bernie will fix your fence:

1/15/2020 9:25:13 PM

So nobody else has to give shit ass cnn clicks, the exchange post debate essentially was

W: I think you called me a liar on national TV (x2l
B: well you called me a liar....lets not do it here, we'll discuss it but not here

Not great but not too bad tbh

Oh if you can find it off CNN, Steyer gets to Bernie with a "just wanted to say hi" and Bernie gives a withering "ok yea great"

1/15/2020 10:21:10 PM

If you suspend reality and pretend everything the Cherokee woman says is true, you should be asking "Why didn't she tell us about Bernie's sexism after it happened?" How long was she planning to hide the story? Why didn't Bernie tell Hillary, Tulsi, Kamala, Amy, or anyone else the same thing?

[Edited on January 16, 2020 at 1:48 AM. Reason : k]

1/16/2020 1:47:13 AM

Pssst, it isn’t even sexist to have an opinion. It’s not like he said “don’t run, you’re a woman.”

Also, can we please not go down the “stealing Trump insults” path? I know that actually you like Trump, but surely mirroring Trump-speak is not the best way to move Bernie forward.

1/16/2020 7:29:24 AM

the native american heritage thing is an issue that sanders would be mentioning if he was actually trashing warren, trump would certainly bring it up in the general

it's not an issue that has gone away, for example: https://twitter.com/rebeccanagle/status/1217494701936381958?s=20

1/16/2020 10:16:15 AM

Quote :

"the native american heritage thing is an issue that sanders would be mentioning if he was actually trashing warren, "

What makes those two things mutually inclusive?

Quote :

"trump would certainly bring it up in the general"

Non sequitur but ok

Quote :

"it's not an issue that has gone away,"

Who said it has gone away?

1/16/2020 10:38:45 AM

Quote :

" What makes those two things mutually inclusive?"

wat

1/16/2020 11:09:49 AM

You can easily trash someone without hitting every point available to trash them.

If someone says "your mama is so fat...", I don't say "ah well he didn't say my mama is so ugly, so we're all good here!"

[Edited on January 16, 2020 at 12:42 PM. Reason : But regardless, 0% of your post was relevant to Nym's post]

[Edited on January 16, 2020 at 12:44 PM. Reason : It's weird to pretend the scripts weren't attacks ]

1/16/2020 12:42:17 PM

the scripts are a valid criticism, they aren't trashing. trashing means something underhanded

trashing would be something like horosho's post (that my comment is not related to how?)

[Edited on January 16, 2020 at 12:53 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2020 12:52:07 PM

Trashing=underhanded is a definition you made up. And if the issue is real, why would Bernie using it be trashing, by your definition?

And your post had nothing to do with nym's post that was advocating against Bernie supporters using the same rhetoric that Trump would use. It didn't say anything about a) Bernie "trashing" Warren, b) implying Trump wouldn't go there in the general or c) this no longer being an issue. And you weren't, or didn't seem to be, responding to horoshos post, but his post didnt reference those either, he only even mentioned the word to be derogatory to Warren.

1/16/2020 1:06:02 PM