I've been driving some AMG Benzes lately and I have to say other than the slush boxes the chassis are getting rather well sorted, while BMW is moving further away from what made us like them. The idea of a slush box in an uber powerful but 4500lbs M5 just makes me sad.

Quote :

"I read this on Jalopnik the other day (about a VW Beetle R, but my point stands); Can "R" be to VW what "AMG" is to Mercedes and "M" used to be to BMW? VW seems serious about making it just that."

[Edited on November 18, 2011 at 7:56 PM. Reason : Jalopnik quote]

11/18/2011 7:56:07 PM

I feel the amgs still ride... well not harsh... but handle well.

an amg car with a 6 speed and i could handle a merc.


Truthfully the twin turbo v10 RS6 avant is what i really want.

11/18/2011 8:38:49 PM

11/18/2011 10:40:54 PM

Quote :

"I haven't driven a late-model AMG, but the MBs I've driven felt like nice German Buicks."

If you follow AMG (not saying you don't) then you'd know that the '08 and newer models have a much greater emphasis on handling than before. While their more powerful offerings don't offer manual transmissions the MCT transmission is pretty damn good (from what I've read). It's not available in the C63 though I've heard the auto-box in there is also good (as told to me by owners at HPDEs).

11/21/2011 10:34:49 AM

yeah, that's why i started with the caveat about having not driven a late-model AMG.

There is no such thing as a good automatic, though. Not in a performance car, anyway. It is impossible to even create such a thing--no matter how good the valvebody and gears and stuff are, a torque converter will always suck.

11/21/2011 10:55:23 AM

^ AMEN!

not to mention changing gears mid turn can shock the tires and blow the whole line.

11/21/2011 11:21:45 AM

^even performance automatic transmission don't do that anymore.

^^MCT transmission has no torque converter.

11/21/2011 12:37:35 PM

what's an MCT transmission?

11/21/2011 8:44:35 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7G-Tronic

11/21/2011 10:02:26 PM

F30 front end looks....okay. Headlight assemblies look great except where it connects to that hideous exposed grill.

I think the interior looks cheap as fuck. In my mind BMW has always been minimalist, Apple-style....the F30 interior looks like a cheap plasticky dell.

Oh well, I'll probably have an F32 after my E92

11/22/2011 12:29:09 PM

According to wiki, that trans has a torque converter.

Just skimmed, but it sounds like a a really good POS slushbox.

11/27/2011 12:22:14 AM

does anyone ITT actually own a 135? that other thread's got me thinking. damn you Ahmet.

11/27/2011 11:25:54 AM

one of our doctors at work has one, with the M package, and she loves it

11/27/2011 12:51:11 PM

^^ no. I drove one about a year ago, though...and I drove my dad's 335i several times

11/27/2011 7:40:24 PM

^^ no. I drove one about a year ago, though...and I drove my dad's 335i several times

11/27/2011 7:46:18 PM

^how would you compare driving the two?

11/27/2011 10:20:20 PM

So close that it's not a factor. I like the 1's looks actually, and don't need the 3's space. Despite my affinity for the American-sized Corvette, I strongly prefer small cars. Bonus points for being German. The 1 is a good size (albeit too heavy).

Caveat--I can't imagine a better road car than these 2, aside from their respective M-variants. I have prob driven them both harder than some owners ever will, but not really hard enough to get a feel for how they respond to being pressed.

[Edited on November 27, 2011 at 10:34 PM. Reason : ]

11/27/2011 10:31:28 PM

Quote :

"According to wiki, that trans has a torque converter. Just skimmed, but it sounds like a a really good POS slushbox."

The basic family is using the modern automatic transmission technology. On your classic computer controlled 4 speed like the GM 4L60E, the torque converter can only lock up in the top gear. On newer transmissions, like the basic 6 speeds used in most cars now, the converter can lock up in any gear to reduce fuel consumption. The torque multiplication effect of torque converter has a strong benefit for a lot of applications (trucks especially) but it does take away from the driving experience of a sports car. That's why dual clutch transmissions are being used now.

If you scroll down the wikipedia article to the "Speedshift" version, it mentions that there is no torque converter. Instead a wet clutch pack engages and disengages to start from a dead stop, like on a dual clutch transmission. This transmission still uses the basic principle of an automatic transmission in the sense that it uses planetary gearsets and hydraulic circuits.

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 12:19 AM. Reason : .]

11/28/2011 12:16:03 AM

Ah ok.

Torque converters suck the root for anything with sporting intentions. Shit, I'd rather have FWD.

11/28/2011 12:36:55 AM

^exactly

Quote :

"According to wiki, that trans has a torque converter. Just skimmed, but it sounds like a a really good POS slushbox."

Then maybe you missed the AMG part. From wiki...

Quote :

"Mercedes-AMG developed the 7-speed MCT "Multi Clutch Technology" planetary semi-automatic transmission. The MCT transmission is essentially the 7G-Tronic automatic transmission without a torque converter. Instead of a torque converter, it uses a compact wet startup clutch to launch the car from a stop, and also supports computer-controlled double declutching. The MCT (Multi-Clutch Technology) acronym refers to a planetary (automatic) transmission’s multiple clutches and bands for each gear.[4]"

Quote :

"I have prob driven them both harder than some owners ever will, but not really hard enough to get a feel for how they respond to being pressed."

I could be wrong, but I've heard they understeer pretty hard at the limit (at least the 1M).

11/28/2011 12:40:20 AM

may i make a suggestion to all 335/135 owners
1. sell cobb
2. buy procede
3. install pwm meth
4. enjoy
5. buy new tires
6. enjoy
7. order more tires
8. repeat 4-7

11/28/2011 9:31:20 PM

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549325

400 rwhp with software, intake, and methanol??!!

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 11:50 PM. Reason : ]

11/28/2011 11:46:42 PM

why is that surprising?

its well known that meth helps push turbos way past their efficiency range.

11/29/2011 8:12:24 AM

i have seen 400 on mustangs and 430 on dynojet. the tq numbers are staggering, 465 and 500. i have a total of 2,500 in all my mods after i sold my cobb.

11/29/2011 10:38:10 PM

Exactly how overbuilt are these BMWs? It's been my understanding that the days of overbuilt performance cars have been long gone.

11/29/2011 11:07:55 PM

...to put it into perspective- naturally aspirated E36 M3 had forged rods.

11/30/2011 7:06:52 AM

it also reved higher then you would want some cast parts to be slung around in your engine bay.

11/30/2011 8:04:26 AM

^^Not really sure how a 15 year old M vehicle puts today's non M models into perspective...

11/30/2011 8:38:22 AM

^^^^^

My only concern is if that power is even useful without an LSD. I mean, my car makes less power and has more tire and an LSD, and I break traction at 50-55 mph or less in 1st or 2nd gear.

11/30/2011 9:37:13 AM

that's more because your motor revs to like 2000 and makes a ton of torque at ~8. imo usable power, in actual performance applications, comes across a very wide rpm range so power inputs can be more precisely selected.

f(corvette) ~= e^x
f(usable power) ~= x/2

11/30/2011 9:47:11 AM

^ which is why i have an awd car with (non power robbing) traction control & LSDs

11/30/2011 10:33:35 AM

Quote :

"^^Not really sure how a 15 year old M vehicle puts today's non M models into perspective... "

not really sure how you don't understand...

11/30/2011 1:10:01 PM

1) I'm not hating on BMWs

2) Your lack of logic is baffling me

11/30/2011 2:51:48 PM

1: not boosted engine so wildly different circumstances
2: M cars always get the best of the best within reason
3: m3s aren't 3series (according to you) so your comparison is worthless.
4: the operating RPM range is different
5: 335s weren't intended for track days E36 M3s were

11/30/2011 3:05:25 PM

^thank you!

11/30/2011 3:33:47 PM

You are either trolling or just enjoy being antagonistic for no reason. But here I will spell it for you.

You were wandering how overbuilt these cars are? I simply told you to take for comparison E36 M3 which had forged rods. If they have forged rods on this N/A car (which btw has lower rpm range than 335), you can only imagine to what degree of safety net went into first turbocharged BMW after some 30 years of turbo absence.

^^yeah, operating RPM range is different. 335 has higher rpm range than US E36 M3.

[Edited on November 30, 2011 at 4:54 PM. Reason : f]

11/30/2011 4:52:48 PM

Quote :

"My only concern is if that power is even useful without an LSD. I mean, my car makes less power and has more tire and an LSD, and I break traction at 50-55 mph or less in 1st or 2nd gear."

i can only imagine how much stronger my car would be with a lsd. i have always been a abs hater until i drove the gt3 at vir. i was a traction control hater until this car. i have found that in corner the traction control is not as obtuse as it is straight line. i only lose traction in 1st and 2nd but i stay out of it a little there. this is an every day car for me, when i find something else for everyday and have time to play again i think i will look for a e9x m car. i do love this body style. anyway you slice it with stock exhaust it is a real sleeper and that is what i love about it. i would agree that the 335 is not a track car. with that said with meth the power delivery would be awesome on the track. the low end tq is the most shocking part from this motor.

11/30/2011 7:02:52 PM

^^ which i don't think has forged pistons...or itbs or solid lifters.

but they might have... i remember when i wanted to boost one that the NV rods and pistons are the strongest and the m52b32 (or usdm s52) rods were the weakest and they were more prone to blowing head gaskets but they didn't have any cracked piston problems that i can think of...


[Edited on November 30, 2011 at 10:09 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2011 9:54:42 PM

Dropped by the local BMW dealer yesterday; asked them to be on the lookout for 2008-2010 model 135i coupe, with 6MT, in either Alpine White, Crimson Red, or Montego Blue (the lighter blue).

They take a $1000 cut on top of whatever they can score one for at auction. We'll see if they come up with anything.


Also told them to let me know if they saw any screaming auction deals on an M3, either E90 or E92 with CF roof.

[Edited on December 1, 2011 at 7:22 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2011 7:21:11 PM

^Sandy Sensing?

12/1/2011 7:42:32 PM

There are now quite a few E9x M3 in mid to high 30s. Look for that dude

135 interior is crap in comparison to 335 and car is ugly as sin. They cheaped out on many things, down to instrument cluster that has inkjet printer style font. Horrific.

12/1/2011 8:05:13 PM

I disagree, I really like the 135i and it's THE car from BMW at the moment that gives me hope for the whole brand. It's my favorite car in that price range out of everything else remotely performance oriented.

12/1/2011 8:44:59 PM

oh performance wise of course. it's lighter (just a tad anyway), shorter wheel base. im talking about looks and utility only. interior is considerably cheaper.

12/1/2011 9:48:35 PM

I'd definitely buy one if they make a 135 hatchback.

12/1/2011 11:36:26 PM

^^^^^ yep. Mr. Sansing was in there chatting with people when I stopped by.

^^^ yeah I like the 135i, to include the looks.

[Edited on December 1, 2011 at 11:47 PM. Reason : Of course, I like the z3 shoe-coupe, too]

12/1/2011 11:46:27 PM

I'm with the duke here. I love the 135i, the z3 coupes, z4 coupes, and E30/36/46 M3's...

So how many of you have played BMW M3 Challenge?

[Edited on December 2, 2011 at 12:53 AM. Reason : .]

12/2/2011 12:51:34 AM

Quote :

"There are now quite a few E9x M3 in mid to high 30s. Look for that dude"

are you freakin serious dude!!

12/2/2011 2:05:48 PM

Prob could find an E90 with significant mileage for that price. A decent E92 for less than $40k would be a screaming deal.

12/2/2011 2:11:11 PM

37 E9X M3 below $40k.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?position=top&doors=&systime=&model=M3&search_lang=en&start_year=2008&keywordsrep=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=both&distance=0&min_price=&drive=&rdm=1322860223644&marketZipError=false&advanced=y&fuel=&keywords_display=&sownerid=1050441&end_year=2012&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&showZipError=y&make2=&certified=&engine=&dma=SAN_FRANCISCO-OAK-SAN_JOSE_NO&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&isFlashPlugin=true&transmission=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&address=94947&color=&max_price=39999&num_records=25&seller_type=b&make=BMW&keywordsfyc=&sort_type=priceASC

12/2/2011 4:12:27 PM

http://www.youtube.com/user/BMW?v=xLSTfGZAJDE&feature=pyv&ad=9074256897&kw=bmw%20car%20concept

12/2/2011 6:38:17 PM