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 Message Boards » » Confederate Monuments - love it or list it? Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8, Prev Next  
afripino
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oof

1/15/2019 2:37:06 PM

TreeTwista10
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Now she is leaving on January 31st instead of at the end of the school year

1/15/2019 2:49:44 PM

dtownral
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UNC Police Officers want you to believe that UNC Police don't know that gyou're not allowed to open carry a handgun on campus:

A Silent Sam supporter brought a gun to UNC on Saturday. Police asked him to leave.
https://www.heraldsun.com/news/politics-government/article228091604.html

don't forget that police are on the nazi's side

3/19/2019 11:01:23 AM

Bullet
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https://www.wral.com/officials-person-affiliated-with-heirs-to-the-confederacy-to-be-charged-in-vandalism-on-unc-campus/18296690/

4/1/2019 10:59:28 AM

aaronburro
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Sounds like a regular protest to me. No need to takexany action against them

4/2/2019 12:05:38 AM

Nighthawk
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This article gets me:

https://www.wral.com/students-unc-must-do-more-about-racist-threats/18298531/

The students want more safety. Not happy that other landmarks around campus have been vandalized and don't like the perceived treatment of white supremacists by UNC police. They claim that the police are working with the white supremacists. Then in the same article they want more UNC police to be able to close down campus to the public.

4/2/2019 6:48:43 AM

dtownral
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the police are working with the white supremacists

4/2/2019 8:47:57 AM

Bullet
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https://www.wral.com/unc-flag-stolen-replaced-with-confederate-flag/18312955/

4/8/2019 12:19:51 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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^
Quote :
"The flag swap was noticed hours after UNC-Chapel Hill police found racial slurs on the Unsung Founders Memorial, which honors slaves who built the campus, and an installation outside the Hanes Art Center.

The names of activists Lindsay Ayling and Maya Little, best known for spreading her own blood and paint onto the 'Silent Sam' Confederate monument a year ago, were included in the racist graffiti found last week, officials said."


[Edited on April 8, 2019 at 12:34 PM. Reason : ]

4/8/2019 12:34:00 PM

afripino
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the police are working with the white supremacists

ftfy

4/8/2019 12:36:27 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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President Trump's lynching tweet led me to read about Wyatt Outlaw, who was the first African-American elected to be Town Commissioner and Constable of the town of Graham, North Carolina.

On the night of February 26, 1870, a party of unidentified men rode into Graham, dragged Outlaw from his home and hung him from a tree in the courthouse square in Graham.

This would be the same courthouse square where a confederate statue was later erected in 1914 and where the following rally was held just two years ago:



What I also find interesting about this story is that, according to a 2007 column in Burlington's Times-News, a plaque was placed on the street where the lynching occurred, stating, "Racial violence in Caswell & Alamance counties in 1870 led to martial law, under Col. Geo. W. Kirk, impeachment & removal of Gov. W.W. Holden," and not mentioning the lynching that occurred at the site.

According to the head of the committee that would have placed the plaque at the site:

Quote :
"The committee did not want to commemorate the graphic details of a man’s death... In the end, the responsibility here is come up with something that informs the public but is acceptable to all parties and that the community would welcome."


I'm assuming that the community would have included those individuals pictured above.

10/22/2019 12:59:52 PM

afripino
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so...they're trying to erase history???

10/23/2019 5:02:44 PM

dtownral
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That was the goal of all lost cause monuments

10/23/2019 9:38:20 PM

utowncha
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are these the "70% of americans think a civil war is inevitable" crowd? i am surprised to see only one snek flag.

10/24/2019 7:58:12 AM

Bullet
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While at the fair, I saw all the folks with their confederate flag stickers that said "I support confederate heritage". Saw a couple in UNC attire (and more in State attire), and one in Pink Floyd shirt.

10/24/2019 10:22:58 AM

Bullet
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https://www.wral.com/confederate-monument-is-removed-from-downtown-pittsboro/18779547/

11/20/2019 9:48:29 AM

thegoodlife3
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this shit is infuriating

https://www.wral.com/silent-sam-deal-included-extra-75-000-to-keep-confederate-group-s-flags-off-unc-campuses/18837378/

some of the most feckless people in a position of power giving racist shitbags all the money they want

[Edited on December 16, 2019 at 8:38 PM. Reason : and more than they probably ever dreamed of]

12/16/2019 8:35:43 PM

thegoodlife3
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https://www.wral.com/nbc-news-unc-campus-police-used-system-to-monitor-antiracism-protesters/18847572/

12/21/2019 6:14:25 PM

dtownral
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the judge ruled the SCV didn't have standing to sue in the silent sam case, the $2.5M settlement has been vacated

2/12/2020 12:44:05 PM

afripino
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this is the way

2/12/2020 5:11:39 PM

utowncha
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i wonder how much of that money SCV already spent

2/13/2020 7:26:48 AM

dtownral
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They said $52k

2/13/2020 8:31:57 AM

eyewall41
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Doucette is obliterating the SCV and it is great!

2/14/2020 11:54:27 AM

utowncha
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git r dunnn, richmond

6/8/2020 3:15:17 PM

A Tanzarian
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Petraeus wants to rename Bragg.

Take the Confederate Names Off Our Army Bases

6/9/2020 12:17:08 PM

JT3bucky
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If people found out where there state flags pattern originated, oh boy.

6/9/2020 12:49:22 PM

Geppetto
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Things such as that I think can change meaning over time, especially since no one reflects on our state flag in that way at this time, not even the most committed racists. Statues that are prominently placed at major intersections and welcoming the state capitol building that say “in remembrance of our confederate dead” don’t really evolve in meaning.

6/9/2020 1:52:22 PM

marko
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Literally putting people on a symbolic unreachable pedestal.

[Edited on June 9, 2020 at 5:34 PM. Reason : ...]

6/9/2020 5:33:46 PM

StTexan
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File me under the get rid of all of them, put them in museums group

And thats being generous. At the least get rid of them.

6/10/2020 1:50:59 AM

0EPII1
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I am sure most of y'all know about what happened in Bristol a couple of days ago, but posting it here for the record.

Raw cellphone footage of his 'ordeal'
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1269996343017328646

Different angle of the 'drowning'
https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269644536281776128

Footage overlaid with history of the slaver and reactions from UK Home Secretary and Bristol Mayor
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1270271917203746817

Bristol Mayor's reaction (longer)
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1270025620479762432

UK Home Secretary's reaction (longer)
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1269673922540249088

London Mayor's response to above
https://twitter.com/SadiqKhan/status/1270039614083018758

Nigel Farage equates BLM protesters to the Taliban
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1270271276708478976

And states that after becoming rich, Colston was a philanthropist (with the obvious implication)
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1270258538414329857

His article in The Telegraph
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1270319763550584832
Our craven leaders are failing to stand up to a Marxist mob which wants to tear down our history
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/09/craven-leaders-failing-stand-marxist-mob-wants-tear-history

Policing minister's take
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1269891410179883008

How the statue plinth described him ("one of the most virtuous and wise sons of their city")
https://twitter.com/Pulp_Songs/status/1270318256990097408

Dude made a fortune bringing 84,000 slaves -- 12,000 were children -- from Africa, 19,000 of whom died/were killed by being thrown overboard.

It just dawned on me, in the process of writing this post, that what was done to his statue is very symbolic of what he did to Africans: they captured 'him' without his consent, then took him on a 'journey' (rolling on the road), and finally 'drowned' him, just like he did to Africans. Especially that last part, the drowning, very powerful -- I wonder if the protesters chose that method of 'execution' on purpose for that very reason, or things just happened in the heat of the moment.

What this woman says in the first 22 seconds is so very true and powerful:
https://twitter.com/novaramedia/status/1270307332044578816

A day later, London authorities removed a statue of another slave trader, sensing it would probably meet the same fate.

Colston's statue will be fished out and put in a museum.

Activists have identified about 60 statues around the UK for removal.

P.S. Oh damn, the feels
https://twitter.com/DEEEPECK/status/1053180846889488385

6/10/2020 6:45:52 AM

rwoody
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But do you know where we can get more information

6/10/2020 8:23:30 AM

thegoodlife3
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downright giddy over seeing some of them come down

looking forward to them all coming down

6/11/2020 12:14:56 AM

0EPII1
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https://twitter.com/Dlrdrk1/status/1270866267336052736

Columbus down

Native Americans dance around his 'carcass'

6/11/2020 4:51:00 AM

rjrumfel
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Now they're going after Churchill? Good grief.

6/13/2020 8:18:59 AM

utowncha
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great idea as long as you dont stand under them

6/13/2020 9:01:29 AM

Nighthawk
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I don't really give a shit anymore about the Confederate statues. I used to be in favor of keeping them, but after seeing how some folks deify them and how much they negatively affect others I am totally in favor of putting them in a museum, cemetery of Confederate dead, etc.

What does concern me though is that some are now suggesting we should pull down the Jefferson and Washington Monuments because they also owned slaves. I get it but those guys founded this country and set our democracy in motion. They also weren't doing anything that wasn't done by many others of the time. Not saying it is right but where do we stop once the Confederate monuments are gone? Here is one of the stories discussing Washington:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8413185/CNN-analyst-calls-remove-George-Washington-Thomas-Jefferson-statues-owned-slaves.html

6/13/2020 1:21:08 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"They also weren't doing anything that wasn't done by many others of the time. "


This always works

6/13/2020 1:39:02 PM

bbehe
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Rwoody, are you in favor of tearing down monuments of Washington and Jefferson?

6/13/2020 1:53:14 PM

rwoody
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I'm agnostic. Are you?

6/13/2020 2:16:12 PM

bbehe
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I would be against tearing those particular monuments down.

I'm pro removing any CSA monument though

[Edited on June 13, 2020 at 2:19 PM. Reason : a]

6/13/2020 2:18:33 PM

rwoody
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Yea i don't knwo just seems like the "everyone else was doing it" is a bad argument, especially for leaders

6/13/2020 3:08:38 PM

bbehe
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It is poorly worded.

The simple fact though is that most of the Founding Fathers owned slaves and wouldn't have been in a position to call for and lead a rebellion if they hadn't. The Revolution certainly would had died much earlier without the support of the South.

It's shitty and isn't an excuse. The fact that they owned slaves and their views on the matter shouldn't be ignored, it should be taught and reinforced repeatedly. However, they were also instrumental in the creation of this country so I don't have a problem with the monuments provided we're teaching the good along with the bad in history lessons.

Holding people of the past to today's morality is also tricky. Like how many people pre-1980s who have been cool with gay marriage?

[Edited on June 13, 2020 at 3:19 PM. Reason : a]

6/13/2020 3:18:14 PM

Nighthawk
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Yea sorry if I worded it poorly. The Confederate Generals were fighting for a country whose Constitution enshrined slavery as an unalienable right, so fuck that. My point is if we hold a lens of modern morality to every Founding Father or historical figure we can find fault. I've personally come to terms with how fucked the Confederacy was and that the Lost Cause is bullshit. But was the American Revolution something to not celebrate because slavery was in the US at the time, as well as in many other countries? If in the future we find out that MLK was vehemently anti-homosexual does that mean we should no longer honor him for his civil rights work? At the time that was a pretty common belief among Christians, so in my opinion it shouldn't detract from his overall message. How will that be viewed in fifty years however? That is my only point; where should it stop?

[Edited on June 13, 2020 at 9:15 PM. Reason : ]

6/13/2020 9:13:42 PM

moron
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I would support replacing all the monument of slave holders with other monuments. It’s not like we’re going to forget who Jefferson was. And I don’t see any reason to have these monuments that don’t represent the ideals we currently believe publicly displayed. Put things up that inspire the current and future generations. Make room for new artists and displays. Catering to a misguided sense of nostalgia to please a bunch of curmudgeons at best and racists at worse seems stupid.

Even taking the best of Jefferson... doesn’t modern day politics prove he’s basically had no impact? Trump is about as dumb and discurious and unprincipled as you can get. He’s exactly the kind of person Jefferson wouldn’t want anywhere near the executive branch. People can’t pretend To have any respect or appreciation for Jefferson while supporting trump.

[Edited on June 13, 2020 at 11:40 PM. Reason : ]

6/13/2020 11:38:14 PM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"I would support replacing all the monument of slave holders with other monuments."


I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but does that include something like the Washington Monument?

[Edited on June 14, 2020 at 12:33 AM. Reason : looks like this has been mentioned ITT briefly already]

6/14/2020 12:29:58 AM

moron
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The Washington monument is dedicated to Washington but not made in his image. I wouldn’t be opposed to re-dedicating it I suppose.

6/14/2020 1:10:25 AM

Nighthawk
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Also saw on WRAL on Friday they mentioned a bunch of roads, towns and handful of counties in NC are named for Confederates. While those aren't exactly a statue how far do we go to remove the names of anybody associated with the Confederacy? Zebulon Vance was the Governor of NC during and after the war, and also was a US Senator for 15 years after the war, but did fight for the South for the first year before becoming Governor. Do we rename the whole of Vance County? Hoke County? Personally I live near Carrboro, and Julian Carr made an incredibly racist speech at the dedication of Silent Sam, but the town name is fairly unique, so do we rename the whole town because of that? Some of the streets named Hill Street are apparently associated with A.P Hill, so no more Hill streets?

If we really want to stretch it with issues of the Founding Fathers, do we rename Washington DC? The state of Washington itself? Just curious how far folks think it should go. Again I have no qualm with the Monuments coming down and being placed in a cemetery or museum or whatever, but just wanted to know how far more progressives feel we should take with regards to renaming things.

[Edited on June 14, 2020 at 3:54 PM. Reason : ]

6/14/2020 3:54:07 PM

FroshKiller
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If Russia could go from Petrograd to Leningrad to Saint Petersburg in less than a century, we can rename all that piddly bullshit one time.

6/15/2020 10:09:55 AM

marko
Tom Joad
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It's really so easy to see through the "it's too hard" arguments.

6/15/2020 12:01:10 PM

utowncha
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one problem... rednecks.

6/15/2020 1:12:49 PM

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