Quote :

"Rawr Rawr Rawr. Let's grab our pitchforks. Rawr Rawr Rawr."

In your opinion, which cases mentioned ITT deserved pitchforks?

7/6/2016 3:38:52 PM

Quote :

"would love to hear what your training has been for the same situation? How are you taught to handle a suspected gun pointer who is doing no such thing when you approach? He is legally allowed to carry a gun in the state and he is standing peacefully in a parking lot when you arrive? "

It's not that simple. There is no if you have A do B. There are too many variable in a given situation. Who called? What was their motivation? What information did they give? Was it anonymous? Has something like this happened before? Do we know the person they are calling about? Is this an open carry situation? Is this a baby's momma drama? Did that caller just buy duds (fake drugs) from this person? All of those questions play into how you handle a situation. Without them, there is no context, no way to determine reasonable suspicion or probable cause or shit even community care taking. Its not black and white, and no scenario is exactly the same and can be trained for.

Working on the street is a thinking mans game. Friends of mine who are Detectives, etc always say, "life was simpler on the street." Its not. There is a ton of information to process, case law and general orders to be bound by. Some of its fair, some of its not, but you got to play the game.

And another point, some Departments, some officer, suck. They hire shitty people and/or give shitty training. Its a fact of life. Its politics, and its money and it where you are located. As someone who trains new officers full-time, I've seen people come in with 8 years on and they have less knowledge then a wet-behind-the-ears recruit. Its not always their fault, some come from shitty agencies where they never had been tested.

This is what is so frustrating about reading about these incidents and seeing these incidents. There is no context, just a 5 second clip. Sure, some of them are horrible and the officer should be charged, but we can't take that and apply it to the next guy.

Due process is due process. You better believe that if I was in another critical incident I would hire a lawyer. Even if there is overwhelming evidence exonerating me, I want some to navigate the legal system for me. Its a criminal investigation and would want the same rights afforded to me.

Laptop is dying. I'll take my questions off the air.

7/6/2016 3:53:18 PM

Quote :

" Due process is due process"

That might be meaningful if we weren't all 95% sure they are gonna skate, regardless of the evidence that is produced.

Edit: unless the convenience store footage is overtly damning. The guy was armed, he "resisted." The cops "feared for their lives." They won't even bring charges against them.

[Edited on July 6, 2016 at 4:04 PM. Reason : I've seen this episode before]

7/6/2016 3:59:45 PM

Let's look at due process in the light of the Clinton email investigation. The FBI came out and said what she did was careless and wrong, but its doesn't meet the criteria for prosecution. The same thing happens in these shootings. They may have been tactical unsound, or insert something else here, but they don't meet the criteria needed to prosecute. There will be other ramifications like civil suits, dismissals, etc.

7/6/2016 4:10:21 PM

7/6/2016 4:16:35 PM

Which would be an acceptable outcome for me, except that's what happens in like 95% of all investigations of police. The amount of evidence needed to just bring charges against an officer is insanely high.

[Edited on July 6, 2016 at 4:23 PM. Reason : Honestly, the crux is more of an AG/prosecutor problem than a police problem.]

7/6/2016 4:20:42 PM

I'm actually really glad the DOJ is investigating here. The idea that a local or even state DA could or would be impartial or that the police investigating themselves are likely to find any fault is ridiculous.

The videotape makes this look very much like a straight up murder. There may be other evidence that comes out as this progresses, but its hard to envision a scenario where this was a justifiable shooting.

Sterling probably should have just put his hands up when approached and been compliant. The police had legitimate reason to approach cautiously and to restrain him based simply on the call. Having a gun is legal. Brandishing it and pointing it at another person as the 911 call alleged is not. Even if Sterling didn't do that, that was the information the police had and they have to approach the situation based on that info.

Now, even though it seems like Sterling sort of maybe didn't handle his interaction with the police well, the police sure as shit didn't handle this interaction well. Now they've killed someone with no apparent provocation or need to do so.

It's disturbing to hear and read that both body cameras "fell off" and didn't capture any footage and that the police apparently confiscated the security footage from the store without a warrant.

If you want it to look like you're covering up a murder you're off to a good start.

7/6/2016 5:29:33 PM

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/06/new-video-shows-alton-sterling-was-not-holding-a-gun-when-baton-rogue-police-killed-him.html?via=desktop&source=twitter

video from a second angle. not sure why the audio is so terrible either, but you can clearly see the gun (or something??) was still in his pocket.


[Edited on July 6, 2016 at 6:20 PM. Reason : ]

7/6/2016 5:56:16 PM

Quote :

"GOOD GUYS WITH GUNS"

7/6/2016 5:57:48 PM

^^cop that was straddling Sterling is the one that shot (first)? And then rolls off him to above his head? The other cop kneeling beside him is the one that backs up and is off camera after the camera pans back to Sterling?

If that's the case then it looks to me like the cop shoots (accidentally?) as he draws the gun?

7/6/2016 6:10:49 PM

I bet this is all going to come down to 'well, I thought my life was in danger, so I shot him several times'. Then the officers will waltz away from it all.

7/6/2016 6:26:09 PM

Shooting up a gay club: Everybody should be able to carry a gun!

#AltonSterling murdered by cop: Welp, he shouldn't be carrying a gun!


https://twitter.com/JenniDigital/status/750674530209849344

7/6/2016 6:32:24 PM

man how convenient is it tat the body cam "fell off" just before shooting

7/6/2016 6:36:46 PM

^^ was he a felon?

7/6/2016 7:21:07 PM

It would be much easier to see what is happening if people didn't shoot cell video in portrait mode. Turn the damn phone sideways to shoot in landscape. Either way I do not see him reaching for a gun. This looks like murder to me.

7/6/2016 9:10:00 PM

Quote :

"unless the convenience store footage is overtly damning. The guy was armed, he "resisted." The cops "feared for their lives." They won't even bring charges against them."

agreed, sadly.

Quote :

"Let's look at due process in the light of the Clinton email investigation."

Let's not, because it's not even remotely relevant.

Quote :

"They may have been tactical unsound, or insert something else here, but they don't meet the criteria needed to prosecute. There will be other ramifications like civil suits, dismissals, etc."

Fuck a civil suit. That's not justice. Nor is a dismissal. That's not holding anyone accountable. Surely you can acknowledge that more charges should be made in some of these cases. Obviously not all of them ITT, perhaps not in this particular one, but historically speaking there are less charges in this space than there should be, even if you confine the scope of that idea to the last couple decades. I don't think that's debatable.

Quote :

"Having a gun is legal."

Probably not for Sterling it wasn't.

Quote :

"but you can clearly see the gun (or something??) was still in his pocket."

Yeah there's nothing to indicate that the gun ever left his pocket. I guess the question is did he reach for it, or for an officer's? I guess.

[Edited on July 6, 2016 at 10:15 PM. Reason : and am i to assume you can't answer my question at the top of this page? if so, i understand.]

7/6/2016 10:11:18 PM

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1690073837922975&id=100007611243538&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FRAMohSfUUk&_rdr

Very grusome video.

Licensed concelaed carry, pulled over for busted tail light, notifies cop of weapon and that hes going to get his license, cop shoots him. Video is a female sitting next to him in the car as hes bleeding to death.

This was all live streamed on facebook too. Wow.

[Edited on July 7, 2016 at 12:06 AM. Reason : ]

7/7/2016 12:02:33 AM

Quote :

"[quote]Having a gun is legal."

Probably not for Sterling it wasn't.
[/quote]

Yeah, probably not. Looks like he was a felon. Point though is that having a gun in and of itself is not justification for them to shoot nor is it really reason to send a unit to investigate. The brandishing alleged on the 911 call is what made them approaching him justifiable.

This looks pretty fucked to me, the cops will probably avoid prosecution because of qualified immunity. Doesn't look like a "good shoot" to me, but I'm sure we'll see "more training, procedural updates, blah blah blah" as is so often the case after these incidents.

The real take away for everyone should be, don't call the cops unless you are ok with someone potentially being killed.

7/7/2016 12:31:53 AM

https://twitter.com/kool_mo_b/status/750913058298597376

Philando is dead.

Hi res mirror: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7DhbRUvNI&feature=youtu.be

[Edited on July 7, 2016 at 1:09 AM. Reason : ]

7/7/2016 1:02:30 AM

^ You can tell from the cop's voice he knows he fucked up.

Quote :

" what's the point of playing devils advocate in shootings like this?"

Because team SJW tends to take anecdotal cases like these and run with them... to the point where there isn't a rational discussion on police brutality or police accountability, but instead a divisive racial aspect that is more focused on silencing people rather than conversing with them.

Quote :

"Shooting up a gay club: Everybody should be able to carry a gun! #AltonSterling murdered by cop: Welp, he shouldn't be carrying a gun! "

Isis Shooting up a gay club: #NotAllMuslims
Feel Good Gun Control: #YesAllGunOwners

7/7/2016 1:19:08 AM

http://www.startribune.com/aftermath-of-officer-involved-shooting-captured-on-phone-video/385789251/

This Falcon Heights shooting is way more disturbing than the last one.

7/7/2016 1:25:47 AM

http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/lavish-reynolds-philando-castile-falcon-heights-minnesota-police-shooting-dead-shot-facebook-live-video-watch-uncensored/

7/7/2016 1:39:47 AM

Quote :

"Because team SJW tends to take anecdotal cases like these and run with them"

anecdotal?

7/7/2016 3:07:21 AM

That Falcon Heights shooting is horrific. The girlfriend was so brave and kept her cool and kept the camera rolling. And the sound of the little girl comforting her mom is pretty haunting. AND the woman is cuffed. They screwed up bad and continued to treat that family like animals.

7/7/2016 3:34:45 AM

Don't worry, MaximaDrvr will be here soon to explain why he deserved to die

7/7/2016 6:32:22 AM

jesus christ this falcon heights one



[Edited on July 7, 2016 at 7:29 AM. Reason : what ^^ said]

7/7/2016 7:29:27 AM

So I'm guessing a cop draws their gun as soon as you tell them you have a CC permit and a gun on you? Nothing necessarily wrong with that, I guess I'm just wondering how early in the traffic stop do cops pull their guns.


Another question that came to mind in the Sterling case: the cops show up looking for someone brandishing a gun, and sterling fit the description. But then they act totally surprised when they find a gun on Sterling - "he's got a gun!, GUN!" Instead of, "where's the gun?! Drop it!" Then cop straddling him tries to pull his pistol fast and that's when he shoots him (I think he fired while trying to draw his gun accidentally.)

7/7/2016 7:32:42 AM

Quote :

"That Falcon Heights shooting is horrific. The girlfriend was so brave and kept her cool and kept the camera rolling. And the sound of the little girl comforting her mom is pretty haunting. AND the woman is cuffed. They screwed up bad and continued to treat that family like animals."

Just this.

7/7/2016 7:58:27 AM

Good Jesus, that last video is terrible

I bet a black person in the U.S. could make a strong case for seeking asylum in another country. They would only have to point at history, along with current arrest/incarceration/death rates at the hands of police and the judicial system to show how because of their skin color, they may be treated unfairly.


Also, I think that this problem is bigger than can be handled nationally. I think this needs an international focus. If this were framed as a humanitarian crisis or human rights violation, where other countries labelled the U.S. as a country plagued by racism making if unsafe for brown people....things might change.

7/7/2016 8:25:31 AM

Meanwhile in Raleigh, when there is a report of a white guy pointing a gun at people, a single cop arrives while the guy is holding a shotgun, then pulls a handgun and fires it, but is somehow the cop manages to arrested him without murdering him. It's almost as if there is in fact a better way to handle these situations.

7/7/2016 8:44:22 AM

Quote :

"So I'm guessing a cop draws their gun as soon as you tell them you have a CC permit and a gun on you? Nothing necessarily wrong with that, I guess I'm just wondering how early in the traffic stop do cops pull their guns."

Eh, never had a cop pull a firearm on me. One time the cop asked if he could place my firearm on the roof, so he had me reach for it, hand it to him, and he placed it on the roof; never once did he reach for his or even put his hand on his own firearm. Another had me put it on the dash (again, I had to reach out of sight of the officer to get it); and lastly, one simply said, "if you don't show me yours, I won't show you mine".

But also, I'm not black.

Quote :

"Meanwhile in Raleigh, when there is a report of a white guy pointing a gun at people, a single cop arrives while the guy is holding a shotgun, then pulls a handgun and fires it, but is somehow the cop manages to arrested him without murdering him. It's almost as if there is in fact a better way to handle these situations."

but but but but black people

[Edited on July 7, 2016 at 8:53 AM. Reason : .]

7/7/2016 8:51:47 AM

Is there actual video of the Falcon Heights shooting or is just the aftermath?

7/7/2016 9:12:29 AM

Yeah that one in Minnesota seems like there is no way that cop can get out of that one right? You would think now more than ever that these things would happen less because surely if you are a cop you know good and well if you shoot someone its gonna be highly scrutinized.

7/7/2016 9:14:24 AM

^^ Just the aftermath, apparently. I'm glad she at least had the presence of mind to start streaming when she did.

Unfortunately, it leaves the window WIDE OPEN for a he-said, she-said about what happened before the video, and the cop is most likely to emerge on the good side of this.

Shameful.

I woke up at 1:30 this morning and came upon all this when I decided to check Twitter. I never was able to go back to sleep, and I'm still shaking. This one is hitting me hard for so many reasons.

[Edited on July 7, 2016 at 9:22 AM. Reason : sss]

7/7/2016 9:20:40 AM

Ok, then we are back to RAWR RAWR RAWR. Right now we just have a video and one side. You never apply this kind of logic/reasoning/rationale to any other aspect of your life. We had like a 100 page threads on here dissecting every shred of evidence (Young case), but we see 15 minutes of a man bleeding out and we are ready to out the officer in front a firing squad.

Don't get me wrong, if the officer was wrong, fuck him. But, damn look the whole picture before we use social media to destroy someone.

[Edited on July 7, 2016 at 9:33 AM. Reason : Fuck the iPad ]

7/7/2016 9:32:47 AM

Good point. I think people are just tired of this whole situation happening over and over.

7/7/2016 9:37:36 AM

i'm sure he had demon eyes and was super scary and that's why the cop shot him, it was totally not because he asked for his license like his very calm wife says

all cops are shit, only power tripping psychopaths would take the job so that they can play billy badass and shoot people without getting in trouble

the "it's just a few bad cops" argument would make sense if cops didn't immediately circle the wagons and start defending themselves every fucking time something like this happens

7/7/2016 9:37:39 AM

One of my first questions upon seeing the video was how did she start recording after when the cop already had a weapon drawn? Seems like she would have had both hands above her head or on the steering wheel and not able to play with a recording device to find the record app and start recording.

7/7/2016 9:40:12 AM

... or the phone was already in her hand

7/7/2016 9:41:11 AM

it was facebook streaming. wish she started it 2 mins earlier

7/7/2016 9:44:16 AM

http://wncn.com/2016/07/06/raleigh-man-fires-handgun-at-wake-county-deputy/

Quote :

"Ray pulled out a handgun after the deputy wrestled the shotgun from him. Ray fired a shot from the handgun during the altercation. The round did not strike anyone. The deputy was able to apprehend Ray and take him into custody."

Check out these fucking charges

Quote :

"Ray was charged with assaulting a law enforcement officer with a firearm and damage to personal property. Harrison said the Sheriff’s Office is investigating why Ray was pointing a gun at passing cars but said Ray had been drinking heavily."

7/7/2016 9:45:06 AM

I'm not familiar with FB streaming - but I'm assuming it's not voice activated? Even if she had her phone out already, seems difficult to fumble around with a phone while the cop has his weapon drawn. It's always a good idea to begin recording immediately upon being pulled over so you can document the whole interaction - not that I'm judging this lady here because we still don't have all the facts.

7/7/2016 9:48:41 AM

Id argue that the majority of shootings are NOT highly scrutinized. Instead, I'd posit that really only the relative few shootings that hit the media, are protested by activist groups, or are especially gruesome actually get any real scrutiny.

7/7/2016 9:49:32 AM

^if there is a video they will play it on TV and social media

anybody have facebook app on their phone and want to time how long it takes to start?

[Edited on July 7, 2016 at 9:52 AM. Reason : s]

7/7/2016 9:51:27 AM

rawr rawr rawr

7/7/2016 9:58:40 AM

Facebook streaming is a pain in the ass to turn on..which it should be there would be problems if it was easy to do on accident.

It also blows up your entire friends list when turned on so if you are in an emergency it is probably a damn good way to get the footage out.

7/7/2016 10:07:01 AM

clearly she was able to get her phone out and start recording as the cop sat there dumbfounded at how badly he just screwed up. He snaps out of it early in the video and tells her to put her hands where she can see them

7/7/2016 10:07:58 AM

It doesn't sound like he snaps out of anything. He sounds scared shitless and completely out of control.

7/7/2016 10:19:07 AM

the fucking apologists now want to time opening fucking facebook streaming

7/7/2016 10:23:02 AM

^yeah, not sure what the fuck that has to do with anything. She was probably just sitting there on her phone looking on Facebook not thinking she needed to record anything, until the dude murdered her fucking boyfriend.

7/7/2016 10:25:39 AM